I love the hosts that off UNLIMITED bandwidth, they are such FRAUDS! Especially after you read the TOS, its funny- one UNLIMITED provider notes that they will look at your account after 2 gigs of transfer....and MAYBE shut it down...hahaha...Id rather go with someone that clearly lists the bandwith usage and pay the same exact price!

Agreed !

But it does sell accounts. Most people don't realize it isn't so and sign up. Then again, most accounts use much less than whatever the limit really is so to them it really is unlimited and they know no better.

Just a marketing ploy :rolleyes:
It's not likely to be going away.
As long as it generates sales; some hosts will use it.
But, I'm with Fred. . . . . I'd rather go with someone that clearly states limits.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Just a marketing ploy :rolleyes:
It's not likely to be going away.
As long as it generates sales; some hosts will use it.
But, I'm with Fred. . . . . I'd rather go with someone that clearly states limits.

I agree with you completely.

But, unfortunately, most people don't like clearly stated limits. We get emails asking us "Why don't you offer unlimited data transfer?" Because we are up front and state our plan's limits, we lose customers. It sucks, but it is the price of up front honesty.

Most of the time customers don't realize that unlimited is truly limited. The main reason for this is:

-The user don't use enough data transfer to surpass the "hidden in the TOS" limit. Therefore to them at least, it appears as if there is no limit.

On the other hand, the people who realize unlimited are a scam fall into one or both of the following categories:

1) User's who have hosted large web sites with "unlimited" providers, only to have their account limited, or terminated for over usage.

2) Network savvy technicians/engineers, who realize that there really is no such thing as "unlimited" data transfer.

Unfortunately, the people who fall into the above two categories are far outnumbered by those who don't. Because of this, the "unlimited" fraud/marketing strategy is and will continue to be effective for those who use it.

Take care,

Brian

One thing I do find quite amusing about "unlimited" providers is their "idea" of what unlimited is. While I have seen some state in their TOS that anything over 15gb is considered abuse, I once saw a host offering 300mb space and "unlimited" transfer (forgot the price, but low as one would expect). Upon reading the TOS it seems that anything over 100MB is abuse, so if you try to upload your site(assuming it is close to 300mb), you wouldn't even get half of it up b4 you exceed your "unlimited" boundaries. What do you guys think of unlimted hits?

Originally posted by George
What do you guys think of unlimted hits?

Every host has limited hits since bandwidth is limited.
Let's say you have a web site with 5 images, and each image is 1meg. When someone will load the page, you will receive 5 hits, and 5megs of bandwidth will be used. As far as I understand, hosts simply state 'unlimited hits' meaning that you can receive as many hits as possible using certain amount of bandwidth.

Regards,
SLN

...so really, stating unlimited hits without saying "within your bandwidth limits" is the same as saying unlimited bandwidth

Saying "unlimited" is like saying, "We'll do anything to attract unsuspecting new clients."
There is a limit to everything. If you just take simple "Unlimited EMail" ; well it's still limited to your space and transfer limits.
Unlimited is just a marketing tool aimed at the uninformed and the greedy.

:sickface:

Theyre mostly looking to get inexperienced or new webmasters arent they. Most of us learn with experience and that takes time. Meanwhile they make money, and with the growth in webmastering set to increase fror some time to come theres plenty of new and inexperienced people out there.

I suppose the advantages of this are that new webmasters are not really going to be high traffic to begin with as site promotion is an aquired skill that also takes time.

Prospective customers should always read the fine print but how many really do.

Caveat Emptor I guess.

You'd think that most hosts would want to clearly state their bandwidth limits so as to scare away potential bandwidth hogs. A host offering "Unlimited bandwidth" couldn't possibly sustain a good service if they actually attempted to live up to their offer. Oh well, that's my two cents on the issue.

Originally posted by George
...so really, stating unlimited hits without saying "within your bandwidth limits" is the same as saying unlimited bandwidth

To a degree you are correct, but realize that ohhhh what, 90% of the people signing up for hosting, haven't got a clue as to what a hit is, nor bandwidth, nor a cgi process, nor a SQL connection, etc. I have no idea what the exact figure is, might be higher or lower than 90%.

I know that I've experienced many people who don't fully get the whole concept of domains, let alone the tech. nitty gritty.

In a way, there is something to be said for not confusing your average customer. Education is power but realistically, web hosting is quite technical (from domains, IPs, nameservers, DNS, supported languages, etc., etc., etc.), and it is too much for non-technical people to take in sometimes.

Try explaining it to your mother sometime. I've tried to explain it to friends, little bits and pieces and they get it, sort of, but my mother could care less and really just wants to check her mail and that's about it. She even has a webshots community page.

If they cut her off, she'd be screwed, and I think this is what happens too often. My ex-girlfriend's mother locked up the engine on her car @ 60,000 miles (bought new). Why? She never added or changed the oil. Now this is out there, but is an example of how something that is *so* obvious to me, wasn't obvious to someone else.

Ok, now I'm rambling...

Chicken very accurately described why some hosting companies offer unlimited bandwidth. As a host it's sometimes difficult to explain to people why they need to use the IP before they change their nameservers, why that change isn't instant, and so much more... Most customers don't care about technical aspects of hosting in the slightest. I'm guessing here but the unlimited hosts are probably offering it because it increases their sales and it does that because the consumer wants it.

Meaning when the honest hosts define a limit on bandwidth the consumer is generally confused by it. That results in one of two things, the visitor either leaves and goes to a "better" host who offers unlimited bandwidth or they email you about it.

After going in detail and explaining what bandwidth is, why it has to be charged for, and why unlimited bandwidth can't truly exist you realize that they don't grasp file sizes. Your job just got a lot more difficult. After you explain file sizes to them they thank you for your time and continue to shop around. Now they realize what bandwidth is but they are still unsure how much they will use so they shop around for the highest numbers.

Now is that really better then shopping for unlimited bandwidth? I'm rambling a bit here but I think the point is made that the general consumer doesn't grasp the technical issues and doesn't really care to. They want a solution that will take care of their wants/needs and they don't want to learn the technical issues or else they would have bought a book...

I think the more interesting question should be: Is an "unlimited" host who hides the true bandwidth in their contract any worse then a host who grossly oversells their bandwidth?

Depends on how much they oversell it? Explain that to the average consumer who just wants their site online. Are you going to try and explain the current industry rates to them?

Before I jump in with my opinions on it all I'll see if it stirs up any responses out of you guys. :)

Most customers don't come anywhere near their limit in bandwidth so for hosting smaller sites by new site owners the risk can pay off. OTOH, when you get experienced web site owners and designers who also think there is such a thing as unlimited bandwidth (or storage or POP3's) then you have a problem.

NTL, I agree it's unfair to say unlimited and hide a limit in the fine print.

Hello
Our average user is using less than 200MB per month in bandwidth.
In theory we could make the plans "unlimited".
If usage stayed the same then it would work.

But I bet if we did start advertising unlimited it we would attract bandwidth hogs like one customer we have who uses 100GB+ per month.
That works out OK because he pays for it (in advance - in cash...... can you believe it!)
But if we had even one or two sites like that going through for free we would need to recruit a lot more customers to make up the difference.

I don't think that saying plans were "unlimited" would bring in enough additional customers to pay the bandwidth bill.
........ but I might be wrong.

Gordon

Hey Todd! :D

Just thought I'd mention in case anyone misunderstood my post (or Todd's), that I do not condone the practice of using the 'u' word as I feel it does not pertain to hosting, nor is it honest.

What I meant was that there are two classses of customers (more than two really, but...). The WHT informed type who know exactly what everything means and look for exact levels of everything, and another type who is simply confused more than anything by most of the features listed.

The people I deal with don't understand, nor do they want to. I sell them hosting, and don't even have a page up listing MB of space they get. It means nothing to them. They could get more space somewhere else, better support, etc., but they aren't buying web hosting, they are buying web hosting from me, and that's the difference.

What is Unlimited real means?
I thought it means that the company pays the bandwidth within the price that they offer.
If they thought the amount can cover most cost of bandwidth with this kind of account, they will say that is unlimited.

Due to different price in Datacenter around US & world, also related to the other costs within a server, each company will get their own price for *Unlimited account*.
And the main user group will be considered by their own experience.

Of cuz there are none existing *Unlimited account* around the world. Even though they need not to pay their bandwidth, it is still limited by the connection speed and the hardware of the computer.

offering unlimited bandwith is fine if you want to honestly play the numbers game and are prepared to offer it to the few people who will use a lot.
But even the biggest companies, (telstra is a prime example here in Australia), find that they cannot offer unlimited bandwith.

I have seen a lot of companies offer 20 and 30G of bandwith at very low prices. I wonder what percentage of these people actually honour these plans, or just rely on clauses like they reserve the right to terminate accounts which consume excessive server resources (sometimes not clearly defined). This would be worse than offering "unlimited" in my opinion.

Not sure whether this happens. But I am curious.

Originally posted by hostjet

But even the biggest companies, (telstra is a prime example here in Australia), find that they cannot offer unlimited bandwith.


It depends. For small companies, just small numbers employers will be lower their costs. Bandwidth & hardware is not the most costly for a company. Telstra will like to give a higher price to pay their employers. However a small reseller company just play for their own costs. It is difference.

I hate telstra. I have already applied for their ADSL services but still not get it.

Most hosts use unlimited when they mean unmetered.
There is a subtle difference.
One is possible, the other is not.

Gordon

Originally posted by hostjet
offering unlimited bandwith is fine if you want to honestly play the numbers game and are prepared to offer it to the few people who will use a lot.
I disagree with that only because unlimited is endless. It's as though you are saying that the world has an unlimited amount of processing power. Now you can build CPU's upon CPU's but eventually you would tap out of resources. It doesn't matter if it's in 20 years or 2,000 years because if there is an end to the resources it's not truly unlimited.

I want to clarify my last post as well.. I was playing devils advocate and I by no means support unlimited bandwidth. It's deceptive advertising at best...

My only point was intended for people that are on a witch hunt for unlimited hosts to show how horrible they are. In my opinion if they offer good services and hide the real bandwidth cap in the contract, it's deceptive, but it's no worse then a host that sells you 100 GB of bandwidth for $9.95. Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit here (on the pricing) but by making such an unrealistic offer are they really any worse then a deceptive host who hides the true bandwidth in their contract?

Meaning if there is any witch hunt, it should be after hosts that offer bad service with unrealistic pricing just as much so as unlimited hosting as both are deceptive. The common WHT posters in the industry can probably spot the hosting company that will be bankrupt in a year because they know what to look for. However, as Chicken pointed out the target market is the end user who doesn't care about technical details. Meaning they won't be able to spot unrealistic offers like you or I.

That was the only point I was trying to get across. Assume you get rid of the unlimited bandwidth hosts and they instead offer insane amounts of bandwidth for unrealistic prices are they any better now? That was the question that I had hoped someone would respond to.

As to what Gordon said, I don't find unmetered accurate either. Once a customer reaches a certain point and gets that email, the customer will indeed find out that the host sure does measure (meter) the amount. Just because hosts don't pay attention to the small accounts, doesn't mean they aren't going to take notice if it gets up there. This is metering.

Originally posted by Chicken
As to what Gordon said, I don't find unmetered accurate either. Once a customer reaches a certain point and gets that email, the customer will indeed find out that the host sure does measure (meter) the amount.In practice, that's probably true. But "unmetered," at least, is technically possible -- it would be possible for a host to not measure, or to pay attention to, the bandwidth or transfer amount used. "Unlimited" can never really exist, because there'll always be real limits to the amount of bandwidth available.

In that sense, I'd agree with Gordon that "unmetered" would be a more accurate word for what is usually referred to as "unlimited." I'd agree with him, that is, if that's what he was saying! :)

Yes
I think that swhat I was saying:

Its impossible to provide unlimited resources.

But

It is possible to not meter the use of limited resources.

Gordon

Ahhh, I see, yes makes sense, though it would seem to apply moe to dedicated servers restricted in bandwidth, or maybe a virtual account (limited the same way). Something the person should know about when signing up. (Though as discussed, it si a bit over the top for most to understand this).

I actually think that it could be considered an illegal marketing ploy. If you really want to get rid of it, find a nice sized host with deep pockets and start a class action law suit against them =). It's like a phone company offering UNLIMITED long distance as long as you dont use over 2 hours. That is definetly illegal and I don't see why it should not apply.

I just posted this URL in response to another thread:

http://www.unlimitedtransfer.com

I was really surprised to see that so many hosts were interested in it. Heck, it's not even finished! :stickout

Anyway, I'll finish it soon and if anyone wants to link to it - to show potential customers, etc. feel free...just don't steal the content. Thanks! :D


--Tina

OK.. So what would be wrong with offering "unlimited" email accounts but defining unlimited as "unlimited = As many as can fit within your plan allowances. "

I will not limit the number of email accounts but fully expect customers to pay if they go over their quotas.

It is kind of like renting a car and getting unlimited miles. You still have to pay for gas. So customers can get unlimted accounts providing they pay for usage (disk, bandwidth) on those accounts.

Yes
Thats a valid point.
We offer unlimited e-mail accounts on our Windows hosting because IMAIL is usually set up to work that way.

But again, unlimited does not mean infinite.
You could easily set up 100 POP3 accounts on a 10MB hosting plan but if they all had incoming mail with attachments they would run out of space.

I may change it to a fixed amount in the plan description even though the system has no limit.

I had someone today asking for unlimited nandwidth in the UK so I offered him unlimited bandwidth at £7 per GB.
Its only fair to offer it if people want it, as long as they are happy about the billing.
I have a customer who uses 150GB per month which he pays for in advance, in cash usually 2 months at a time.
If only I could find a few customers like that!

Gordon

Originally posted by GordonH
I had someone today asking for unlimited nandwidth in the UK so I offered him unlimited bandwidth at £7 per GB. Its only fair to offer it if people want it, as long as they are happy about the billing.
Now that I like :D

All the bandwidth you can use, only $X/GB. Sounds respectable to me.