If she's said it once, Hillary's said it 100 times: she's not running for president. At least not at the moment. But the Clintons haven't endorsed a candidate, there's no Democratic front-runner and speculation that Hillary could jump in persists. Should she do it? Would she make a good president?

No on both questions.

I would say wait till George Bush's term is up, i can't see any Republicans, who in4 years time, that would be picked to run as the candidate; that could beat her.

I've been keeping half an eye on the Democratic presidential candidate race, Howard Dean seems to be standing out at the min. Isn't it a bit late in the day, to pur yourself forward, haven't most democrats already tied their colours to a certain candidates mast?

and i think General Wesely Clarke has stole her thunder just a bit.

Being from NY, I can say Hilary's actually been a good senator for us. I had my questions coming in, but she's done a fine job.

The Clintons are polarizing. If she joins the race, she'd be excellent at raising funds for the democrats, and she'd be good campaigning for democrats in other races. But she'd also bring out stiff resistance from the republicans.

My guess is she doesn't join the race this time around. Instead she's going to be very successful campaigning on behalf of other candidates, and that will further strengthen her position as a front runner in 2008 if the dems loose, and 2012 if they win.

None of the runners deserve to be a president. I want a president that has a degree in mathematics and doesn't take bribes.

I wouldn't want her to run.

I wish Clinton could run again.

Shyne, i don't see how a maths degree could make a better president. I'm in the UK have no degree but have an education up to A-Levels. I think it is the individuals ideals and ability to manage a situation and turn an idea into reality.

But one that doesn't take bribes or backhanders would be nice :d

I'd be surprised if Hillary didn't announce her intentions to have a Presidential Exploritory committee "research her options".....or has this happened already :confused:

i think she has but i'm on the wrong side of the point to know for sure.

Originally posted by Critic
Shyne, i don't see how a maths degree could make a better president. I'm in the UK have no degree but have an education up to A-Levels. I think it is the individuals ideals and ability to manage a situation and turn an idea into reality.

But one that doesn't take bribes or backhanders would be nice :d

I see how it could be misunderstood. :)

I ment I want a president who values the idea of science and would do anything to promote this idea through out the country.
Some qualities are honesty, not greedy, straight forwards, unafraid. I guess this is too ideal.

A big reason I hate Bush is because he is dumb.

In reaility we won't see a president like that in our life time, because the corporations eat people like that for dinner.

Dumb???? I guess my M.B.A. means nothing either then? What a shame. And I thought I was smarter than the average bear....

Scott Goodwin

:uzi: Hillary

Originally posted by 0utlier
Dumb???? I guess my M.B.A. means nothing either then? What a shame. And I thought I was smarter than the average bear....

Scott Goodwin

A few Bush quotes-

"Our nation must come together to unite."—Tampa, Fla., June 4, 2001

"Do you have blacks, too?"—Bush To Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

"I would have to ask the questioner. I haven't had a chance to ask the questioners the question they've been questioning.."—Austin, Texas, Jan. 8, 2001

"Natural gas is hemispheric. I like to call it hemispheric in nature because it is a product that we can find in our neighborhoods."
Austin, Texas, Dec. 20, 2000

"The great thing about America is everybody should vote."
Austin, Texas, Dec. 8, 2000

"They misunderestimated me."
Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program."
St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000


:rolleyes:
The guy is a complete moron.

The problem with science is that the "Columbia" incident will hamper things quite a bit. If a new space race kicked off, to find life on Mars say; then it might put science back in the presidents "in tray". It might happen again with the Mars thing, Europe have the Mars Express and the US have two probes on the way to find life. So with that and the first person on Mars race, you never know. The economy has to get sorted first though.

Honesty, a bit difficult to come by when some of the things that you will see at that level of politics is "need to know" and when it is prudent not to tell the public; the truth gets distorted. But hey, that is modern politics.

When it comes to the intelligence of Bush, he gets made out to be dumber than he is but he isn't the "brightest bulb" you will ever hear or see either.

I remember someone telling me that he said >>

" Pollution does not exist; it is merely the impureties in our rivers and the atmosphere."

Oh dear ::hangs head" it might be a lie but i doubt it.

While I am no Bush fan, I would not say he is dumb. A man is only as smart as the people around him. A lot of the people who advise Bush worked for his father, and we all saw how that turned out. The great thing about Clinton is he was surrounded by very good people.

But I do think it is too early for Hillary to run. I don't honestly think we in the US are ready to have a woman as president yet. We have yet to even have a woman vice president. While this is sad it has not happened yet, I believe her time will come a few years down the road.

In the meantime my favs so far are Dean and Clark. They seem to be the better of the 10 dem's running. While I am no fan of any of them, I am certianly not going to vote for Bush. I do wish Gore whould have chosen to run. While I understand his reasons for not running, I still would have liked seeing him as president. I think Gore is a very intelligent person, and would of done an excellent job as president.

I mean after all he did invent the internet! :D

Originally posted by rooshine
Being from NY, I can say Hilary's actually been a good senator for us. I had my questions coming in, but she's done a fine job.
What has she done for New York? City? Upstate?

I'm praying you guys don't vote Bush back in and I don't even live there (Canadian). I'm trying to figure out who in their right minds wants a gang of ex-oil execs running the country. Ex: Do you honestly think he wants to make the switchover to fuel-cell cars when they can continue making billions off oil for another 50 years or so? Had he put the $200 billion which will be spent on the war effort into developing fuel cell vehicles, and the required infastructure, he wouldn't need to have troops anywhere near the mideast. They are there to protect the interestes of the US namely oil. For some reason 50% of your population still would vote for him!! No WMD, no Sadaam, thousands of innocents dead, no postwar plan. They really messed up bigtime.

I think a Clark, Dean or Kerry win would be a win for the entire world. Forget Lieberman because he is too pro Israel and will never be able to fix anything in the mideast.

I'm praying you guys don't vote Bush back in and I don't even live there (Canadian)

Even with everything you said, another clinton is not the answer for this country either.

Originally posted by DannyITR
I think a Clark, Dean or Kerry win would be a win for the entire world.
WOW! I didn't think it was that simple.

To me, I felt more comfortable with Clinton in the office than I do with a Bush in the office. I hope Bush don't get voted back in office, and I will vote.. Hopefully my 1 vote makes a big difference :D

I think she should run. It's good for your heart. She needs to make sure she has a good pair of shoes though. otherwise it's hell on your knees.

Aaron

Actually I have to admit I've been pretty luke warm on anyone in the Presidential race to date until Wesley Clark popped his head up. There's something about that guy I like.
General Clark is a 1966 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, where he graduated first in his class. He holds a master's degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar
Among his military decorations are the Defense Distinguished Service Medal (three awards), Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star, Legion of Merit (four awards), Bronze Star Medal (two awards), Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal (two awards), and the Army Commendation Medal (two awards).

Besides holding more than a few degrees, he's a decorated soldier (instead of playing one on TV, like Bush).

I think he's in a good position to understand local economic policy, as well for foreign policy, both of which have been pretty lacking this time around.

Hillary is too much Clinton, corrupt to the core. Clark is too much in bed with the Clintons, although he has some appeal and I respect him.

I think Dean is the best Democratic candidate for standing by his ideals... mostly.

I'll probably be voting lp as usual and my vote won't be worth anything as usual :)

Originally posted by Critic
Shyne, i don't see how a maths degree could make a better president. I'm in the UK have no degree but have an education up to A-Levels. I think it is the individuals ideals and ability to manage a situation and turn an idea into reality.

But one that doesn't take bribes or backhanders would be nice :d


An education does make a difference. India has a missile scientist now as President and he more of a "man of peace" despite the title of "missile man" given to him. Though his powers are not the same as an US President, he is doing a good job of meeting students across the nation to encourage them to learn.
[actually the Prime Minister is the executive head as in UK but the Indian President is a ceremonial head of state and also the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces]

Even in the past there was an excellent example when an Economics University Professor was give the job of Finance Minister. He made sweeping changes in India because of which the economy of the nation has changed for ever.

As Shayne as pointed out a formal education is not the only thing that can make a person capable. However some experience and knowledge and understanding is a must when one has to handle a job of immense responsibilty and into whose hands a lot of people would have placed their trust.

She'll run for the 2008 Presidential election. That is soooooo obvious. :D :eek3:

I think just a plain NO will work here

no.

Originally posted by MDJ2000
Hillary is too much Clinton, corrupt to the core. Please elaborate on that. Corrupt to the core? I don't think so.
Originally posted by MDJ2000
Clark is too much in bed with the Clintons, although he has some appeal and I respect him. Clark has demonstrated in his military career that he's in bed with no one. In fact, he and Bill Clinton had a run-in while Clark was Supreme Allied Commander in Europe. Right now Clinton seems to be a big fan of Clark, and I think it's real. They are politically compatible. He may even advise Clark. But I nobody can think for a second Clark will be any sort of puppet for Clinton.

I would suggest you read up on some recent history regarding both items, albiet, if you're not concerned with Hillary's past, then you're simply not, I respect that and no examples would change that.

That's fine, however myself, I think it's fairly scary how much they all get away with, and on the scale that they do. It's tolerated, and even celebrated because of idiotic party loyalties. The idea that nearly everyone is this country boxes themselves into one of two idealogical groups is tragic. A good example is people that still today think Bush's arguement of WMD's is legitimate, it makes them look silly. I supported the war, if nothing else, for humanitarian reasons, but I fully realize Bush lied through his teeth.

Clark has supported ideals in the past which would typically be assigned to the "right" or "conservatives", but his close relationship with the Clinton's from early on is common knowledge in politics. I never suggested Clark would be a "puppet" mind you. I think people need something "fresh", a la Dean.

Originally posted by FTPguy
If she's said it once, Hillary's said it 100 times: she's not running for president. At least not at the moment. But the Clintons haven't endorsed a candidate, there's no Democratic front-runner and speculation that Hillary could jump in persists. Should she do it? Would she make a good president?


Do I think she would be a good president? Probley not, but that is my own opinion. I really dont know how she would work things, but I know I didnt like Clinton in any way shape of form.

I think Clinton is a corrupted, but not sure about Hillary. I am an independent not a republican, or democrat. If I had to vote for one or the other I would vote republican, because it most fits me.

No matter who you vote for there will be the pros and the cons of each president no matter who they are. I belive if Hillary was voted she probley take our guns away.

Long Live Freedom!

I don't think anyone can argue that Hillary isn't both very intelligent and very astute in estimating her opportunities. This is a fray she doesn't want to get into, I'd wager. Bush has a lot of momentum behind him from the staunch war-backers, and the Democratics are still very divided. I think in every conceivable way, this is NOT a good year for her to run. If Bush wins, I'd say she's almost certain to run in '08. If a Democrat wins, I'd put it at '12.

Originally posted by MDJ2000
A good example is people that still today think Bush's arguement of WMD's is legitimate, it makes them look silly. I supported the war, if nothing else, for humanitarian reasons, but I fully realize Bush lied through his teeth. I must admit I had you pegged wrong. I assumed you were exactly what you are complaining about - someone boxed in by his/her idealogical beliefs. I apologize. For the record, I supported the war for the same reasons.

Originally posted by MDJ2000
I would suggest you read up on some recent history regarding both items, albiet, if you're not concerned with Hillary's past, then you're simply not, I respect that and no examples would change that.

That's fine, however myself, I think it's fairly scary how much they all get away with, and on the scale that they do. It's tolerated, and even celebrated because of idiotic party loyalties.Hillary & Bill have gotten away with their share, I'll give you that. They are not perfect people, and to say they've had their fair share of scandals is an understatement. I know you can post several examples here. But I do think Clinton was good for the country, and most of his flaws are personal. To say they are corrupt to the core is an exaggeration, I think.

Originally posted by rooshine
I must admit I had you pegged wrong. I assumed you were exactly what you are complaining about - someone boxed in by his/her idealogical beliefs. I apologize. For the record, I supported the war for the same reasons.

Hillary & Bill have gotten away with their share, I'll give you that. They are not perfect people, and to say they've had their fair share of scandals is an understatement. I know you can post several examples here. But I do think Clinton was good for the country, and most of his flaws are personal. To say they are corrupt to the core is an exaggeration, I think.


Rooshine I agree with you with most of what you say, but for one part.


But I do think Clinton was good for the country

he distroyed our CIA Intelligence in America. He has done much harm in America, but not sure about Hillary she could be good she could be bad who knows.

I think we should alter term limits to state that a canidate may have no more than two consequetive terms, but after sitting out for one term, they may run again.

Then I think Bill Clinton should run again. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. He helped this country so much more than that sorry son of *itch Bush has. He is like his father: rich, dumb and untruthful.

Yeah, the war for humanitarian reasons. Now there's an idea. Lets send our soldiers to Iraq to die for absolutely nothing in the name of humanity. It is so damn disgusting that our boys are dying over there for nothing. Nothing has been accomplished, unless you consider the complete and utter waste of 400 human lives and $100+ Billion Dollars of taxpayer money to be an accomplishment.

I couldn't care less what Saddam did, does or will do to his people. Let his people deal with their leader. Let them overthrow their own government if they don't like the way things are being run. We have plenty of problems right here at home that no one has been able to fix and most refuse to address without traveling thousands of miles overseas to find more.

Think of what $100 billion could do for our failing public schools. Or, a rebate to the people. Bush is spending your money on a bunch of people who dont want us there, will never appreciate what has been done and who - given the first chance - will kick us in the teeth for doing it, instead of taking care of problems here at home. Charity begins at home. You take care of yourself, your family, your neighbors, your community and your country before you run off and give money to a bunch of people that dont even pay taxes here.

The NTSB says our roadways are reaching the point of being in need of critical repair, so they want to raise the road tax to raise money to fix the roads. They put the estimated repair costs at $4 trillion dollars. Our national debt is skyrocketing out of control. Bush alone has contributed immensely to this with his dumb little wars.

To highlight the extent to which Bush is a complete and utter fool: He wants to give guns and arms to the Iraqis. We've been here before. What a great idea! We'll give guns and training to the enemy. No one wants to talk about how Bush's daddy armed Bin Laden who, not more than two decades later, turned around and blew things up over here. In 20 years, the people Bush is arming today will come over here and blow something else up. Next time around, I hope that get Bush's house instead of killing 4,000 innocent civilians.

Of course, the damn Republicans keep sidetracking the issues so they can push forward with thier conservative agenda and continue to commit thier crimes. Hitler had the right idea, he just applied it to the wrong group of people. He should have waited until 2003 and then came over here and gassed the damn Republicans. Then perhaps we wouldnt be in all the trouble we are now.

Originally posted by kkimmel
I think we should alter term limits to state that a canidate may have no more than two consequetive terms, but after sitting out for one term, they may run again.

Then I think Bill Clinton should run again. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. He helped this country so much more than that sorry son of *itch Bush has. He is like his father: rich, dumb and untruthful.

Yeah, the war for humanitarian reasons. Now there's an idea. Lets send our soldiers to Iraq to die for absolutely nothing in the name of humanity. It is so damn disgusting that our boys are dying over there for nothing. Nothing has been accomplished, unless you consider the complete and utter waste of 400 human lives and $100+ Billion Dollars of taxpayer money to be an accomplishment.

I couldn't care less what Saddam did, does or will do to his people. Let his people deal with their leader. Let them overthrow their own government if they don't like the way things are being run. We have plenty of problems right here at home that no one has been able to fix and most refuse to address without traveling thousands of miles overseas to find more.

Think of what $100 billion could do for our failing public schools. Or, a rebate to the people. Bush is spending your money on a bunch of people who dont want us there, will never appreciate what has been done and who - given the first chance - will kick us in the teeth for doing it, instead of taking care of problems here at home. Charity begins at home. You take care of yourself, your family, your neighbors, your community and your country before you run off and give money to a bunch of people that dont even pay taxes here.

The NTSB says our roadways are reaching the point of being in need of critical repair, so they want to raise the road tax to raise money to fix the roads. They put the estimated repair costs at $4 trillion dollars. Our national debt is skyrocketing out of control. Bush alone has contributed immensely to this with his dumb little wars.

To highlight the extent to which Bush is a complete and utter fool: He wants to give guns and arms to the Iraqis. We've been here before. What a great idea! We'll give guns and training to the enemy. No one wants to talk about how Bush's daddy armed Bin Laden who, not more than two decades later, turned around and blew things up over here. In 20 years, the people Bush is arming today will come over here and blow something else up. Next time around, I hope that get Bush's house instead of killing 4,000 innocent civilians.

Of course, the damn Republicans keep sidetracking the issues so they can push forward with thier conservative agenda and continue to commit thier crimes. Hitler had the right idea, he just applied it to the wrong group of people. He should have waited until 2003 and then came over here and gassed the damn Republicans. Then perhaps we wouldnt be in all the trouble we are now.


How is it that you post off-topic every single time you post?

I staunchly supported the war at first because I believed Bush. I was angry that Canada did not participate. Now I'm ahsamed of myself. I agree that we should let countries handle themselves. Intervention to combat rogue leaders such as Mugabe and Jong Il should be handled strictly in the UN since it's a world problem.

Unfortunately everytime I hear Americans speak about the war they say something like this:Nothing has been accomplished, unless you consider the complete and utter waste of 400 human lives..

7000 to 10,000 Iraqi civilians were killed by your armed forces. Not a single person or politician I've heard arguing against the war has mentioned this. They only talk about the American lives lost. I would be ashamed to be an American in this day and age.

By the way Hilary should run.

Originally posted by kkimmel
Hitler had the right idea, he just applied it to the wrong group of people. He should have waited until 2003 and then came over here and gassed the damn Republicans. You're a sick individual. Insinuating genocide of an entire group of people is just perverse. It shows your defective logic, you complain about the lives of 400 Americans (of which I'm sure many were Republican Party members themselves), yet suggest Hitler should have waited and murdered millions of Americans based on their ideology.

You make an excellent candidate for banning, IMO.

Originally posted by DannyITR
I would be ashamed to be an American in this day and age.
And you are???

Originally posted by DannyITR
7000 to 10,000 Iraqi civilians were killed by your armed forces. Not a single person or politician I've heard arguing against the war has mentioned this. They only talk about the American lives lost. I would be ashamed to be an American in this day and age.

I am ashamed of what this country has done in my name, but I am not ashamed to be an American because I have not willingly consented to or supported any of these despicable acts. In fact, I have opposed them from day one.

I knew Bush was a lair. His daddy was a liar. I knew Bush was corrupt. His daddy was corrupt. And I knew Bush was not here to represent the people but instead here to further his familes' ultra-conseverative, pro big business, anti-indvidual, unamerican, communist ways. Bush's daddy liked starting wars, playing war and being at war.

Like father - like son.

I didnt vote for the moron. Not that my vote mattered anyway, since the elections were rigged.

I love my country and I stand behing my country. I support the American way - the way our founding fathers envisioned it, including free speech, seperation of church and state and equal rights for everyone - including the gays, blacks and other current targets of discrimination.

What I dont support is what this country has become today: A place where mega corporations prey on the citizenry and buy thier way out of trouble with donations to sleazy politicans who are willing to compromise thier pricnciple and sell thier nation out for a little bit of money.

Bush waged his little war so that he could turn around and award the family business with lots of no-bid government contracts.

And they are not "my" armed forces. They are America's armed forces. If I were in control of them, this sorry mess would have never happened.

Its a shame that so many people (Iraqi civilians and our soilders alike) have died for nothing at all. They didnt even die for oil - look at the price of gasoline. It hasnt dropped any.

Originally posted by kkimmel
I am ashamed of what this country has done in my name, but I am not ashamed to be an American because I have not willingly consented to or supported any of these despicable acts. In fact, I have opposed them from day one.

I knew Bush was a lair. His daddy was a liar. I knew Bush was corrupt. His daddy was corrupt. And I knew Bush was not here to represent the people but instead here to further his familes' ultra-conseverative, pro big business, anti-indvidual, unamerican, communist ways. Bush's daddy liked starting wars, playing war and being at war.

Like father - like son.

I didnt vote for the moron. Not that my vote mattered anyway, since the elections were rigged.

I love my country and I stand behing my country. I support the American way - the way our founding fathers envisioned it, including free speech, seperation of church and state and equal rights for everyone - including the gays, blacks and other current targets of discrimination.

What I dont support is what this country has become today: A place where mega corporations prey on the citizenry and buy thier way out of trouble with donations to sleazy politicans who are willing to compromise thier pricnciple and sell thier nation out for a little bit of money.

Bush waged his little war so that he could turn around and award the family business with lots of no-bid government contracts.

And they are not "my" armed forces. They are America's armed forces. If I were in control of them, this sorry mess would have never happened.

Its a shame that so many people (Iraqi civilians and our soilders alike) have died for nothing at all. They didnt even die for oil - look at the price of gasoline. It hasnt dropped any. This whole post is way :topic: And I am no supporter of Bush, but I prefer to argue with the facts.

Originally posted by rooshine
This whole post is way :topic: And I am no supporter of Bush, but I prefer to argue with the facts.


At least someone agrees with me.


I made the same comment about 5 posts ^.

I agree too, but that's probably obvious :). Ironically, it seems this is just the type of personality rooshine and I were talking about, blinded to the point of plain foolishness. It shed light on the Hitler reference he made though, seems as though neither can entertain the possibly that anyone other than their chosen hated group can be culpable for anything that they, in their mighty wisdom, perceive as a negative.

Originally posted by MDJ2000
I agree too, but that's probably obvious :). Ironically, it seems this is just the type of personality rooshine and I were talking about, blinded to the point of plain foolishness. It shed light on the Hitler reference he made though, seems as though neither can entertain the possibly that anyone other than their chosen hated group can be culpable for anything that they, in their mighty wisdom, perceive as a negative.



Agreed.

Your explanation was better than my simple;

:topic:

I enjoy debating in this forum. People rarely get upset. I admit my "ashamed to be American" comment was uncalled for and I apologize.

I'm glad to see most of you do not support Bush. I'm surprised to see how many have mentioned the fact that their vote does not count. It does count. Bush was elected by a 537 vote margin. I live in Quebec where we usually have voter turnout in the 90% range. We succeeded in defeating the seperatist movement in 1995 51.9 to 48.1 %. Your vote counts. Use it to defeat Bush next year.

Originally posted by DannyITR
I'm glad to see most of you do not support Bush. I'm surprised to see how many have mentioned the fact that their vote does not count. It does count. Bush was elected by a 537 vote margin. I live in Quebec where we usually have voter turnout in the 90% range. We succeeded in defeating the seperatist movement in 1995 51.9 to 48.1 %. Your vote counts. Use it to defeat Bush next year.

I know my vote counts in the numerical sense, I was reffering to the rigged elections in 2000 in which Bush lost but was handed the election by our corrupt supreme court.

His election set a new precident for America: If you lose the election with the people, you can always try to sue your way into office. Hey, maybe I can get "elected"! I'll run and lose, and then I'll sue saying everyone really meant to vote for me but they punched the wrong ballots, so I am the real president.

This year, we need to beat Bush by such an overwhelming majority that he wont be able to fix the elections because doing so would be impractical. it wont be a matter of just stuffing a few thousand ballots here and there.