Howdy Guys,

Sorry if I am asking this again if someone else has posted this before.. :)

How do I tell if this web host provider is a RESELLER of another webhost? Is there any way at all to tell?

I have read that certain web hosts guarantees that they will be anonymous.... provides own name servers... etc etc

Ain't this gets scarier if a wannabe webhost subscribes to a webhost for the reseller plan and then does another reseller thingy again to another wannabe webhost? hope you get what I am trying to conjure up.. haha..

Anyway, is it any slower in network speed or less efficient if I happen to subscribe to a webhost who is a subscriber of another webhost reseller plan?

This is so confusing and scary.. now, the question at the back of my head each time I visit a webhost is... is this guy a reseller of another webhost reseller plan or what?

Anyway, how does one tell if the webhost is a reseller of another webhost and how is this reseller thingy works? and who is the master reseller of such "resellers" package?

Thanks! :)

:confused: :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Eric

You can't always tell. It helps to be familiar with some of the larger resellers (most of us can spot a communitech, olm, or ***** reseller a mile away).

There are things you can do to check a bit such as traceroutes, IP lookups, and even asking the potential host. Most of this has been discussed here already, so you can search for info a bit.

Yep, you could have one host with a reseller, that resells to another reseller and so on. "...is it any slower in network speed or less efficient if I happen to subscribe to a webhost who is a subscriber of another webhost reseller plan?" - Network speed, nope, but it could in theory, take longer for support requests to be answered (due to your host having to email their host, etc.), and for accounts/features/etc. to be set up (due to the same reason).

Generally, it isn't bad to go through a reseller. Often times a reseller answers support requests faster. Of course this could be the opposite. Really, the most important thing you should do before considering ANY host, is to do some searching on this board, (scriptkeeper, and a few others too), as well as search newsgroups deja, etc. You may not be able to find the answers to all of your questions, but at least you should be able to find out some info that will be useful.

What I tend to look at when checking out a host, is the nameservers and tech contact on the domain, and I like to go to their order form to see the URL of their secure server.

Some resellers don't use their own nameservers, or have themselves as tech contact, or install their own secure certificate, so you can figure out who they resell for usually. If they have their own nameservers and secure server, atleast they are more serious about hosting than the ones that "borrow" everything from their reseller, atleast that's the way I look at it ...I figure the more money they spend on their hosting, the more likely they are to work hard and keep at it.

http://www.samspade.org/ has some good tools - its got a web interface for whois, traceroute, and you can see who owns the ip block.

I don't know if I am alone thinking that here, but I personally had (previous) experiences with hosts... that I learnt later they were reseller. Howebver, they had fast and good services, and _lower_ price than the company they were reselling for.

If what you are after is finding the company that IS on the internet backbone... contact UUNET or whoever else and ask for hosting? They would probably offer it for 200$/month with 25 mb HD and 1 gb traffic.

I am not sure if you see my point, but you usually get a better service (I said usually) with smaller companies than that big host who hosts every other resellers, simply because the small host DO care about his clients and has special deals.

No, I am not a reseller, but we do not _own_ the NOC either.
!!!
:)

Originally posted by Chicken
You can't always tell. It helps to be familiar with some of the larger resellers (most of us can spot a communitech, olm, or ***** reseller a mile away).

What gives these guys away particularly? The traceroute? The I.P. Block? Or is it something else?

...searching on this board, (scriptkeeper, and a few others too), as well as search newsgroups deja, etc.

Besides scriptkeeper, which are the other good webhosting forums in your opinion, Chicken?

Learner

[Edited by Learner on 09-14-2000 at 02:19 PM]

Originally posted by Félix C.Courtemanche
If what you are after is finding the company that IS on the internet backbone... contact UUNET...

Felix, what did you exactly mean by *finding the company that IS on the internet backbone*?

They would probably offer it for 200$/month with 25 mb HD and 1 gb traffic.

Would this be similar to the disk space that hosting companies with dedicated/colo servers generally provide?

$200 for a 25 mb Hard Disk and only 1 gb traffic? Actually I think I am lost here on what you are referring to, Felix. Please clarify... as you so beautifully do usually :)

...but we do not _own_ the NOC either!!!

I wish you a million dollars (is that enough??!!!), Felix... and hope that are indeed able to have your own NOC in the near future :)

Chicken... I wish you a huge poultry farm so that you can sell a billion eggs... to earn a million dollars... to set up your own NOC too in the near future ;)

Learner

Originally posted by Learner
What gives these guys away particularly? The traceroute? The I.P. Block? Or is it something else?

Besides scriptkeeper, which are the other good webhosting forums in your opinion, Chicken?

Learner

IP block can be a dead give away, but looking at where the trace route is going as well. If you do enough research you start to see patterns. This is true even if they try to hide it a bit. You can also look at the three I mentioned and find out what their anonymous nameservers are. It usually says it on their site.

Other forums that you probably already know about: http://www.tips-tricks.com , http://sitepointforums.com , http://216.10.4.112/forums/index.php (which is webmaster-forums.com) , errrrr, that should get you going. Maybe http://www.devshed.com as well.

You can telnet to the website on port 25. And that will give you the servers hostname. Which you can do a whois on.

I feel kinda stupid to post such questions to those in the know... oh well :(

can one telnet to any server on port 25... even if the server does not have the telnet facility? i see some hosting companies offering it... and some do not.

thanks Chicken for the tips... i will try to find out what i can after a little while!!!! this is gonna be fun for me!!!!

<rubs hands with glee>

Learner

Learner:
The internet backbone are the high capacity lines that run through most countries (OC48, OC192 lines) wich are... _MUCH_ faster than anything you can even dream of :) My point was that from a certain point of view, everyone is a reseller... Since even your local cable provider resell the bandwidth he buy elsewhere, and so-on.

You could eventually go up to the companies that owns the backbone, but it would most likely cost you much more than it would with any other web hosting provider.

A simplier example You probably all saw that your local ISP also offer web hosting... at outrageous rates (along the lines of 20mb of hd, 100mb of transfer per month for $20 per month)

Resellers often have the hability to sell cheaper than the "mother" company because they concentrate on only 1 type of activity, and do whatever they can to drop their "production" cost as much as possible.

Regarding the NOC... we will not need a million to have it!

We managed to deal up with our current ISP (wich is a cable modem provider... a pretty good deal if you ask me, because since the bandwidth they use is upstream and our is downstream, we get cheaper prices than if we bought it straight from any other bandwidth provider). Anyway, we managed to deal with our ISP and will have our NOC ready sometime in the near future (that means within 2 years max)

Since we currently expect to stay around for that long (easily)... we will definately have some nice new tools to play with.

Ok, enough of that!

Resellers are definately not a bad thing. Periode.
:)

Originally posted by Learner
I feel kinda stupid to post such questions to those in the know... oh well :(

can one telnet to any server on port 25... even if the server does not have the telnet facility? i see some hosting companies offering it... and some do not.


Telnet by itself is not a protocole... if you Telnet into port 25, 21, 80, etc, you will actually connect to the target server using the open ports for ftp, mail or web serving. If you issue commands in there, you _could_ manage to view a web page...

As you can see, a web browser is merely a fast way to do that. There is nothing obscure, it is only plain text queries and answers.

Telneting into port 80 for example won't allow you to exploit anything, it will connect you to apache (if its apache running), that's all.

Originally posted by Félix C.Courtemanche
...since the bandwidth they use is upstream and our is downstream...

Felix... Thanks for taking the time out to teach me (all of us newbies actually). I sometimes wish there was a way I could show my sincere appreciation to all the gods and gurus who regularly make the effort to post such informative replies for everyone's advantage... such as yours above.

I now see a much clearer picture about what you meant earlier in this thread.

Just a little clarification: What does *upstream* and *downstream* actually refer to?

Learner

You know, most fish swim down stream, but some (like Salmon) swim upsteam to mate. Oops, this isn't the Nation Geographic Forum now is it?

Just to give you an easy example of up and down. When you are on your computer you "down"load files from a server. You might also "up"load your web pages to a server. This is basically what he is talking about (which way the traffic is flowing).

This is why it isn't a wonderful idea to connect a server to your DSL line. Although it has a nice DOWNload speed, mine won't push data OUT (send) any faster than 128K. High speed lines like this can only receive fast, which isn't going to help you if you connect a server (which needs to send data fast).

More confused yet? :)

Exactly.

Following what I mentionned earlier, our ISP mainly use his bandwidth upstream (he upload to his customers who download files from internet) and we mainly use it downstream (we upload files to the internet, downloading from our servers)

here is a nice scheme :)

cable user <== ISP <== Data <== Internet

web server ==> ISP ==> Data ==> Internet

Since a fiber link (or any other kind of cable used to transfer the data) upload as fast as it download, you can't just pay for 1, you must pay for both, even if you don't use both.

That's why the deal we found is good... plus it helps confuse people and let them think we are running our company off a cable modem since we are in the same IP range.

:)

Was that clear?

Originally posted by Félix C.Courtemanche
plus it helps confuse people and let them think we are running our company off a cable modem since we are in the same IP range.

Heh yeah, I remember those threads. :)

Originally posted by Félix C.Courtemanche

cable user <== ISP <== Data <== Internet

web server ==> ISP ==> Data ==> Internet


About as clear as mud. So the web server transfers through the ISP, then the Data, to the internet, where the user then downloads it through the Data, ISP, and then into the computer. AM I right?

Allyn

Yes...
I am sorry if that was not clear, I just don't know how to explain it very well. I find it easy to understand.

I should probably have not written 'data' and explained that the ==> and <== was the 'flow' of the traffic.

Anyhow, even if that ws hard to understand... you now know what I said :)

I don't know how we went so off topic though *cough*