<<Added 8/23/01>>
Free Marketing -
As I am developing my service(see below), I will like to offer free manual submission service to one (or maybe two hosts). The submission will be done using the service I am developing, but I will be *personally* making sure your firm is listed right.

The host I am looking for should ideally,
1)offer a comprehensive range of service(shared, dedicated...)
2)did not submit to a lot of directories.(since I want to be able to test-register on that directory, you also need to give me username/password to existing directories you submitted to)
3)will also need to provide me an email account from your domain, so I can operate on your behalf.

Those who are interested please provide me with the URL of your web site, so I can check out who fits my requirement the best. You do not have to be a large host.

Note: this is not a complete professional submission service, there are some directories that I am not submitting to. However, the advantage for you is that you will be listed under more directories.

Post any question you may have. This offer will be removed as soon as I find enough takers.
<</Added>

Original thread -

After two months of development, I am finishing a web host directory submission service. Right now, all that's left is to 1)develep the web interface 2)Go through each web host directory and create the code that will submit to the CGI interface.

I am looking for web host directory owners who maybe interested in helping me out. I am looking for the following,

1)A copy/description of all the submission pages(so that I won't have to go through and reverse-engineer each of them)

2)Permission and acknowledge for me to create a dummy host listing for the purpose of testing

3)When my service development is completed, notify me when CGI interface(HTML form) change.

4)maybe some other things I have yet to think of...

In return, when the development is done, you will get,

1)prority from me to develop code that will submit to your directory first

2)maybe your ad banners on the service

3)Something else, PM me to suggest

As the owner, you can choose what level of help you want to give me, from the list I had(and maybe more), or just simply the permission to let me test against your site.

Alternatively, if for whatever reason you don't like automated code submitting to your directory, please inform me so I will take your site off my list to test and code against.

Please PM or post to contact me.

For everyone else, if you have a question about this, please post/PM, including partnership(even if you are not a owner of a directory)

Thanks,

Peter

I am sorry, but I got to be hoest.

I don't like the idea of making this kind of script, because the hosting directories are the most powerful marketing tool that small - medium and even large size hosting business have.

Every directory has it's own special features, and if you get them right, you might be able to attract more customers - free of charge to your company.

I think it worth the effort to make the submission right. Besides the Hosting control centers offer much more than just plan editing and company profile...

Maybe that's just me but I think that using this kinf of script would be a mistake.

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
I am sorry, but I got to be hoest.

I don't like the idea of making this kind of script, because the hosting directories are the most powerful marketing tool that small - medium and even large size hosting business have.

Every directory has it's own special features, and if you get them right, you might be able to attract more customers - free of charge to your company.

I think it worth the effort to make the submission right. Besides the Hosting control centers offer much more than just plan editing and company profile...

Maybe that's just me but I think that using this kinf of script would be a mistake.

Lonny,
Thanks for your comment and honesty. Could you please eloberate on what you mean by that? What else do hosting control centers offer that you don't think my service will be able to do?
Also, does this mean you want me to exclude findsp.com from my list? Or are you willing to help?
Please PM or post here.

Thanks,

Peter

Well, yes please write that findsp.com has to be done manually and it is available in the following URL http://www.findsp.com/hosting/hostcenter/signup.asp

hosting control center have many features that allow hosts to promote their companies for free and for a certain fee, also they are updated almost on daily basis so it is worth visiting them.

Come on, I mean someone who is promoting his product prefers to do it carefully, and not sending the same information to all the engines hoping that it will help him out...

I am sure that if you'll ask many host directory owners they won't accept the use of such a script for their services.


but good luck :)

Our directory is in development, and really dont think I would want this done.

I mean as was stated you have companies reps on the line, being careful is important

Joe

What kindof directory? any special features?

tell me, tell me, tell me!

:D :D :D :cool: :cartman:

Can not discuss the matter, at this point.

When its done, it will be annoynced on here.

Joe

Dear Lonny,

(Note: as I am writting this post, I notice Joe has also posted, so this reply will apply to him as well)

I must say I am disappointed with you. I knew that you frequent this board, and I was actually hoping to get your help. But anyway, let me counter your argument.

I can understand your fear(is that what's it?). Nobody like the idea of automated code submitting to his site. Or maybe you are afraid that if people start using my service, you will lose a few ad banner impression. But I believe by allowing my service to access your site, you will gain more than when it cost you(which is nothing).

First of all, the users of my service can only submit one company(if they want more, they have to pay more), so there is no fear of spamming your directory of fake or useless listing. Also, since these are web hosts themselves, your ad banners are not likely to interest them as much.

In return, your site will gain the following,

1)More listing - Which situation do you think a new(or existing)web host is more likely to "forget" to submit to your site? A: After submitting to 20 other directories B: At the click of a link, submitting to a list of directories for which I have developed interfaces to.

2)More up-to-date listing - Same as 1), except imagine there is a change of name of a web host, which situation do you think the host will likely to "forget" and leave an old name listed at your site? Same goes for any other information (URL, telephone, descripion - "we are now offering dedicated server...")

3)More comprehensive listing - I am not sure about yours, but a lot of directories have the ability for web host to submit not only company profile, but also hosting plan, special offer, press release... Again, same as 1) and 2), which situation do you think the web host is more likely to "forget" to add a hosting plan or a special offer to your site?

4)More ad revenue - As the next stage of my development, I plan to integrate advertisement management at my service. My user will be able to start an advertisement compaign from my service. However, I put prority into developing ad interface for my partners.

This is the way I see it for you(all you directory owners), if my start up fails(meaning I have no users), than you won't lose any banner impression. If my startup become successful, than all the reason I listed above should be enough to to convince you to form a partnership with me. Bottom line is: Either way, you don't lose

...someone who is promoting his product prefers to do it carefully...

Sure, you can ask the web host to submit their site carefully, but after how many directories they submitted to will they start to submit their site "carelessly"? I think it is almost crude (think the sales director) for you to say "you must personally come to each and every web host directory and carefully submit your company profile"

Only with your help will I be able to develop an interface that can submit *accurately* to your site. This is the reason I am asking for partnership and not just blindly submitting to all directories.

Also for Joe(and any other new directories), how nice is it to have a sizable number of entries when you start your directory? Instead of having to advertise to get your first ten?

In any case, keep the feedback coming!

By the way, Joe and Lonny, I'd appriciate if you don't get this thread off topic.

Thanks,

Peter

More ad revenue???

you are doing the same thing as Kaazaa

have you thought of the fact that we have some ads in the showcase as well?

but that's not important, I call all the host to avoid using this tool - and instead get the fresh and ALWAYS uptodate system from the source.

A host that cares about their business will submit it correctly for the 1000 time if it is a good system, and directory, if it isn't than it doesn't matter if he will use your tool or not.

Lonny,

but that's not important, I call all the host to avoid using this tool - and instead get the fresh and ALWAYS uptodate system from the source.

I still remember when you posted the thread on WHT when you launched your findsp.com site. How would somebody say in that thread "I call all hosts to ban findsp.com" make your feel? That's exactly how I am feeling right now.

you are doing the same thing as Kaazaa

No. For two reasons, Kaazaa(from what I have heard, which is not much) doesn't have the consent of most users, it installs silently, whereas my users knowingly subscribe to my service. Also, I am making the listing at your directory more accrute and up-to-date. I am sure there are more reasons, but I don't think I need to defend myself here, common sense, people!

have you thought of the fact that we have some ads in the showcase as well?

As a matter of fact, no, since I never get a chance look at your hosting control center. Besides, if you want ads, I could always include your ad in my service so that everytime someone submit to your site, my service will pull the ad off your site and "impress" them. Why do you think I asked for partnership? I already said I am open to suggestion.

A host that cares about their business will submit it correctly for the 1000 time if it is a good system, and directory, if it isn't than it doesn't matter if he will use your tool or not.

Again, common sense, I am not sure if I should respond to this. Its' not whether a host *can* submit to your directory 1000 times(or 1000 directories), but aren't those time *wasted*?

You have yet to prove my service can't do as good a job as a human(which I believe it does, in most cases), if you could list your host center features that only human can handle, maybe I could respond.

I don't want to get this thread into a ***** type of thread, especially since you have almost no knowledge of my software. Moderator, please, say something about this.

Again, Lonny, you thoroughtly disappointed me by acting so unprofessionally.

Other people, please feel free to POST/Send/PM any suggestions/comments/questions.

Thanks,

Peter

there are 56 directories, 30 that are worth submitting to.

can't be that hard, a company won't change their plan every day.
1
If I had a tool that may cause a reaction, and would hurt someones product I would have feel the same as you and it would be OK!
2
no more up to date would be if they would come to our host control center and that's a fact.
3.
we ban any software that will hurt our site, and so will every owner of any host directory.

We worked very hard on the control center to design it userfriendly for the hosting company rep.


I really don't like the idea.

Ohh nooo you ar in war here...

I just want to say that peters idea its not a bad, if his software is good and works good then it will be a great tool for hosts.

take care :D

No super sim it is a bad idea, maybe it's more comfortable but the result is = less clients for hosting companies.

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
No super sim it is a bad idea, maybe it's more comfortable but the result is = less clients for hosting companies.

I believe this statement you made is a claim, now, as with the normal practice of this forum, please back it up with evidence. Why would you say "less clients for hosting companies"?

My point is, you know almost nothing about my software, and before you ask me any questions to learn about my software, you dare to make statement like this, I would like Moderator to comment on this.

Besides this statement, I would also want to point out one simple fact:

I am not going to develop interface for you, you have made your wish clear. Bottom line for findsp.com: you won't lose any ad traffic (beacuse of me), and my service will NOT interface your directory(unless you change your mind, I am always open to partnership...)

Now if you do lose traffic because web hosts start using my tool, and since your directory is not interfaced by me, decided not to list themselves at your site, I don't think I am responsible for that.

If I had a tool that may cause a reaction, and would hurt someones product I would have feel the same as you and it would be OK!

Yes, I agree to your right, so that's why I made my promise that your directory will not be accessed by my service.

no more up to date would be if they would come to our host control center and that's a fact.

Yes, and if they go to every single directory, they consume(aka, waste) a lot of time, and that's a fact too.

we ban any software that will hurt our site, and so will every owner of any host directory.

Yes, I respect your right, so my service won't access your site. However, you have no right to put your opinion on other host directory owners, please respect the fact that I started this thread.

We worked very hard on the control center to design it userfriendly for the hosting company rep.

I agree, you have an excellent design from what I can tell.

However, your intention seems to be malicious. After we have established the fact that findsp.com will not be interfaced, why are you still commenting on this? You make this whole thread full of negative comments, and I could assume some of my potential partners has turned away because of your *unsupported* accusation. You are driving business away from me! Would you like me to go to your thread about the launch of your web host marketplace and bash on it? Even though I am totally uninvolved and I am not even your competitor?

It seems to me that you are afraid that other directory owners(especially smaller ones) might partner with me and as a result, their listing will be at least as accurate/up-to-date/comprehensive as yours, since a host's sales person is likely to update larger directories first. (Now before you fight back on this statement, please think of how much you know about my product). You are acting like AOL in blocking other IM networks from accessing AOL's own IM.

Other people, excuse the arguement, please send/pm/post any questions/comments/suggestions.

Thanks,

Peter

I have a question.

I might have missed this, and my IE is messing up .... are you Charging hosts to use your submission service?

AhmedF,
Yes, I am charging hosts who wish to utilize my service.

Peter

i, be up for it tho im a pit pissed at the mo:rolleyes: my directory is only VERY small and was developed as a learning experience, if i can help i'd be glad

http://www.whost.co.uk

First:
I am interested in using your service.

Second:
Don't call down the moderators like gods to threaten FindSP. If you want to have a moderator look over a post, report it. Otherwise, leave it alone. There are rules for when a person can and can not post in a thread. If he has broken them, a mod will do something about it. (Not saying you did FindSP, but I don't think he's going about it the right way.)

And now...

I think this would be useful for hosts. I also think it could be extremely useful to webhost dirs who are starting up, like was mentioned.

ckpeter has spent his time working on a service concept that is already used by people all the time. Ever heard of auctionwatch? Same idea, different market. Does this hurt ebay, amazon, yahoo, and any other companies that have auctions? Well, maybe... They don't get any ad revenue that might have been generated by the sellers going through the same forms over and over to list products. But, not having to waste this time, they get a lot more work done(ie: items listed, hello... per item charges, closing price charges). I have a family friend that lists hundreds of items on ebay every month, and these services are extremely useful.

I have not reviewed your site yet, but perhaps a tiered pricing model would be attractive to host directory owners. For example, I pay $10 per cycle(month/year/whatever) to have my listing maintained in 5-10 directories. For each additional directory I choose, it could be .50 - 1.00 more expensive. This additional cost could be returned to the directory provider. Voila... win-win situation. (This is just an example, I have no idea what the market would actually bear for this service. I pulled these numbers out of the air.)

Slade I have a question for you, don't you feel that manual addition is better than mass listing, and sending information to place like a web host directory without even knowing what is right to add and what is wrong? maybe use some marketing tactics which you are not aware of when using this software?

Slade, thanks for the comments, and yes, maybe I was being a bit immature by calling on the moderator. But I am sure you understand how I feed : I spent two months (with many failures) to write this software, and just when I am trying to launch a service, someone comes along and make all kinds of trashing claims out from the air(literally, since that person never asked me anything about my service, and I am the only one who knows how it works at this moment)

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
Slade I have a question for you, don't you feel that manual addition is better than mass listing, and sending information to place like a web host directory without even knowing what is right to add and what is wrong? maybe use some marketing tactics which you are not aware of when using this software?

Well, Lonny, a very good question. The reason I am seeking partnerships is because I want to develop code that could not only submit to many directories, but also at the same time take advantage of what each directory has to offer. By forming partnerships with each host directory, I could look at each directory, and optimize the listing.

By doing so, each host will not have to learn about what's the trick to most effectively utilize a directory. My service will automatically figure out the most optimal submission. But this will not be possible(or very difficult to say the least), without the help of directory owners.

Lonny, before you start making claims, would you at least spend the time to ask me question first? This baby took me two months to write(and I am an accomplished programmer), it is not your average mass submission script. Please stop assuming what it is without asking me!!

The Laughing Cow, I don't mind your directory being small. Please PM me with the help I requested at the top of this thread.

Peter

I disagree to the entire concept - we have many features in our host directory which have been working for a long time, and I don't have to like some product just because it took 2 month (god forbid) to write...


this is a marketing mistaking using and releasing this product.
You won't receive the cooperation from the imoprtant web hosting directories anyway... I'm sure James or Mike or any of the other hosting directories owners would agree with me..

Originally posted by slade
....

I have not reviewed your site yet, but perhaps a tiered pricing model would be attractive to host directory owners. For example, I pay $10 per cycle(month/year/whatever) to have my listing maintained in 5-10 directories. For each additional directory I choose, it could be .50 - 1.00 more expensive. This additional cost could be returned to the directory provider. Voila... win-win situation. (This is just an example, I have no idea what the market would actually bear for this service. I pulled these numbers out of the air.)

Slade, could you please eloberate on this? Do you mean I charge the host directory owners? Or are you talking about charging web hosts?

P.S. Don't bother going to the site, there is no site yet.

Thanks,

Peter

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
I disagree to the entire concept - we have many features in our host directory which have been working for a long time, and I don't have to like some product just because it took 2 month (god forbid) to write...


this is a marketing mistaking using and releasing this product.
You won't receive the cooperation from the imoprtant web hosting directories anyway... I'm sure James or Mike or any of the other hosting directories owners would agree with me..

I don't see how you could disagree to the concept? What are you talking about?

Well, you don't have to like a product just because its two months in developement. But you don't seems to show any respect for the work I have done. You come along trashing my thread, and you don't seems to realize that you know almost nothing about my serivce.

Is it a marketing mistake using this product? I don't see how, maybe you could enlighten all of us who owns a web hosting company.

Thanks,

Peter

Hey if the product does this:

it has frames with your ads and it shows our site that's ok, but if the user doesn't come to our site and uses OUR control panel from OUR site with OUR database I'm against it and so will every host directory owner.

I am very happy that you made a progress in programming, maybe some day you'll be actually creating something, and not trying to harm some ready products which are available on the market already.

If you'll make one, heck I'll help you sell it, but so far I was very dissapointed by the results.

I think where Lonny is going with this is that, for the most part, host directories aren't meant to be search engines. And I think, although I could be wrong, that he feels that this is nothing more than a product like AddWeb, or other search engine "mass submission" programs.
I also think he's eluding to the fact that most major directories are more than just a "submit it and forget it" place. Most good directories...Lonny's included...value the interaction by the hosts to make them grow. Things like forums, tutorials, host interviews, showcases. And then there's the interaction by the customers in rating hosts, etc.

I don't know if it's a bad product or not. And I could be totally wrong about what Lonny is saying. :cool:

Nope, that's my point exactly.

Also we worked very long time building our interface and so have many other host dir owners. So you won't get any help from them. The serious ones at least.

the great thing about the internet is that if something is useful and works well people will use it.

if not it will die off and sit in the corner of some server somewhere only serving to search engine spiders....

if it was useful and worked I would use it. If it spammed or cocked up I doubt I would.

FindSP,

From what I've seen of most directories, they seem to be just that, a listing, with user comments occasionally, of hosts. A quick poke around your site shows that it is well layed out, and very attractive. However, I see nothing spectacular that would make me want to manually tweak my info just for your directory.

<edit>A slight change in my statement as to not sling mud.</edit>

Yes, I know there is a difference between a mass submission program like the "submit your site to 1,000,000 search engines" and the service ckpeter is attempting to provide. The mass submitters are for people who don't know any better that scammers can use for easy money. ckpeter is going to be providing an ongoing service to hosts, and would be doing so with the express permissions of the directory providers.

ckpeter,

I was referring to this type of service. I am a host. I pay a fee per period to have your site update and maintain my listings on a whole bunch of directories. In my prior "for instance" I would pay a fee per directory to be maintained that you would pass on to the directory. I pay you .50 per directory, you pass .25 on to the directory maintainer. I'm out $15-20, and my site is updated on a slew of directories, who each get a quarter per listing for allowing you to provide host entries in their databases.

First, I would like to thank everyone for their contribution, I learned a lot. I would also like to thank Lonny, even though you don't exactly respect my service, you showed me what some directory owners might think.

I think slade captured the intention of my service exactly: This is NOT a mass spamming engine designed to spam every directory out there. It is an ongoing service that I will provide automated, yet accurate submission of directory. I will be selling this as a service, hosts could subscribe to it, and I will make sure the interface between my tool and all the directories stay current and, most importantly, accurate. Keywords here: Partnership, Alliance

Also, although I won't be showing the target directory's site or ad, I think the benefit this tool brings to the directory owner is more than the ads lost, with the more listing that are more accurate and comprehensive. As for the ads, this is in a way no different than some banner-blocking software a user might install on his computer.

As for the lost of interaction between a web host, the directory, and and hosting clients, I think that's a valid concern. However, look at it this way: No users of my service(I hope) will just login, submit, and go home. They are probably still going to go around to make sure the listings are right on the directories. By saving them the time from typing repeated information, they can spend the time checking out your directory, participate in forums, create tutorials.... In fact, as I survey each directory, I will create a list of things the host could do to improve their marketing, and show that to my users. Again, this is why I am asking for partnerships, so the directory can show me(and thus my users, aka, web hosts), how to best take advantage of the directory. For example, if I do an interface for findsp.com, I will also recommend my user to spend the time to create a tutorial there.(Don't worry, Lonny, I already promised not to interface your site.)

And, yes I am thinking about how to price my service. I am actually considering just selling my users all the directories. Instead of selling them individually. Any suggestions on this?

Thanks,

Peter

There's nothing wrong with a flat pricing scheme. However, you should provide the choice of opting in and out of individual directories.

I've read all the posts, so here's my take.

I'm going to have to side with FindSP on this one. But ckpeter, I do understand your product idea. The idea itself is good. But personally, I don't think I would use it. You said you were going to partner with these directories to make sure that everything works and what not right? Well do you plan on partnering with hundreds of directories? Because as much as I hate updating each and every directory, I think if I would ever think about actually PAYing to so something like that, I would be able to find time and do it myself. I hate paying for things I can do.

FindSP's business is his business. Just like IntraHost is my business. One of the things that brings people to findsp is having to go and register your company with them. This brings the host into their site. They see the quality design (which i do like findsp!) and they see the forums, and the professionalism of the work. They see the interviews, newsletters, all that good stuff. By using your service, a host would miss all of that. They would not see all that FindSP has to offer. And then, MAYBE they would not think of advertising with findsp, which, brings in all (i'm guessing) of their revenue. Thus making findsp go bankrupt (yikes!) and out of service. And that means you just lost findsp as a directory to use in your service. Maybe losing a few of your customers because of it because there are no hosting directories to use anymore! haha. Twisted circle thinking I know. Chances of that happening slim to none. But hey! I thought of it, which means there is the SLIGHTEST chance of it happening. Why would I want to partner with a service that had the SLIM chance of bringing me down?

On that note, I'm looking for a service like yours. But like FindSP says, more human. I would love to higher a person for a small monthly fee that would just keep my records up to date with the different hosting directories. But I would not want them to do it through a script. Because they would be an extension of IntraHost. Interacting with the owners, like lonny at findsp. Networking is the name of the game guys. I just want a simple way to do it. Simple, yet the same. :) haha. I'm odd, I know.

But hey, ckpeter. There are other directories out there. Maybe you should try another place. Maybe when your service opens, we'll all see the big misunderstanding in your service and Findsp will think its a great idea. Its possible. But its not really worth argument. You both have points, and I give you high praise for standing behind your two services. So shake hands and be friends you two. :)

Can't we just all get along! :D

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
Also we worked very long time building our interface and so have many other host dir owners. So you won't get any help from them. The serious ones at least.


Originally posted by FindSP.Com
I am very happy that you made a progress in programming, maybe some day you'll be actually creating something, and not trying to harm some ready products which are available on the market already.

Please explain how your work, which took a "very long time" is somehow better than ckpeter's?

Should your site be better than thelist.com, or any other hosting dir because it took a "very long time"? Perhaps "some day you'll actually be creating something", and it will be worth more?

I've seen many hosts wanting a service such as this. If you don't like it, don't want to use it, have no interest in supporting it (either as a host or as a directory owner), then my advice is not to post in this thread.

Some of the comments seem to be in terribly poor taste and I'd edit them but I'm not sure it is needed. You may find partenerships with other directories that see the benefits of partnering with you and I'd follow up with those people. Who knows, you might make *them* the most popular directory, heh. Be interesting to find out what happens...

I think Slade got it right .. in a way.

Let us say there are 50 directories. 10 Large ones, 40 new ones and struggling.

When submitting to the 10 large ones, you should charge maybev 50 cents per submission. 50% goes to you, 50% goes to the large ones. For the small/new ones, which need more listing, you get all of the money.

Additionally, someway to integrate the hosting submission form with newsletters offers FROM the hosting directories might also pacify them a bit more.

I agree with IntraHost.com

Look, for directories like top hosts.com and hostsearch.com you have to email them first and only then they'll send you the username and password and username, so if you want to pay for some tool that will enter your info that's great, but I gurantee that the important hosting directories - approximately 15 of them, won't agree that ckepter will use their tool on them. So you'll be paying for a poor service.

Chiken - we are not in war with anyone so I consider it to be a reasonable discussion.

Anyways, it sounds that it is really difficult to create such a tool, so I'm sure that if you managed to do something like this you'll be able to create other applications that will bring you more money, and if they are for the web hosting industry I will even promote them in our marketplace, however I will not support something that meant to hurt what we have been working on, and don't tell me that it is a win win situation, it's a loose loose situation, cause it's wrong marketing for a the hosts, and bad info for the hosting directories - and then bad information for the consumers.

Lonny: You dont like the product of peter, ok then dont use it, and leave him alone.

Peter: Just ignore this guy, he doesnt get idea and the benefits of your product. try contacting other directories owners. I bet he is going to keep replying to this thread because he is so afraid of your product.

bye bye .. :cool:

Super sim

a few questions:

how old are you??

and, do you understand anything of what going on in the hosting industry?


"leave him alone" "afraid of your pruduct"?????????????



huh??????

ckpeter,
Givng this some thought, I came up with this sticking point. You, yourself, on your site should not list the hosts(ie be a directory). Any customer(read as host) of yours should be able to review all their info, and such, but casual passers by should not be able to search or do host research from your site. On the flip side, I think listing the directories you publish to is going to be a must. (duh, I know, but I was thinking about not, and that would be dumb :) )

Maybe the biggest directories in the world will be reluctant to join. But then, not every directory will be willing to let other people play with their database. FindSP has proved this. He doesn't want ckpeter's site doing stuff to his listings. Fine, he won't.

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
<snip>... however I will not support something that meant to hurt what we have been working on, and don't tell me that it is a win win situation, it's a loose loose situation, cause it's wrong marketing for a the hosts, and bad info for the hosting directories - and then bad information for the consumers.

I still haven't seen any reasonable explanation about why this is such a bad thing. So a host never visits a directory his site is listed in... Big deal. I can still see the directory emailing the host with information they might find useful, and when comments are posted about them.(automated)

Bottom line: A hosting directory is an end user site. They go to look up plans and other customer comments. Hosts don't need to hang out there, or it ends up being like WHTs advertising forums. Someone asks for a hosting quote, and hosts go back and forth trying to woo them in. Specific advertising methods on specific boards will be a challenge to work out, but should be considered.

Hold on...
Originally posted by FindSP.Com
how old are you??
That's not fair. Given your conduct in this thread, I'd pose the same question to you.
Originally posted by FindSP.Com
"leave him alone" "afraid of your pruduct"?????????????
[/B]
Well, are you? Something must be going on that you haven't told us. What is it? You working on the same idea?

Definately, leave it alone. IF (and I think that's a big if) no hosts join with ckpeter, then all is not lost. He has studied and built code that can be carried on to future endeavors. But, I believe each host and each directory that signs up will benefit.

Originally posted by slade
There's nothing wrong with a flat pricing scheme. However, you should provide the choice of opting in and out of individual directories.

Yes, this will be an option. You can select which directory/directories to submit to , update, hosting plan,...etc

You, yourself, on your site should not list the hosts(ie be a directory). Any customer(read as host) of yours should be able to review all their info, and such, but casual passers by should not be able to search or do host research from your site.

That's a good point, in order for me to remain neutral, I should not be a directory myself.(I was actually think about doing that, thanks for the warning)

Thanks for the suggestion,

Peter

Originally posted by IntraHost

....as much as I hate updating each and every directory, I think if I would ever think about actually PAYing to so something like that, I would be able to find time and do it myself. I hate paying for things I can do. ...

Hi Jeff, no offense. If you hate to pay for thing you can do yourself, as a host, you must be editing the sendmail user list everytime a client wants a new email address(or do you have control panel to do that?) Same goes for here.

One of the things that brings people to findsp is having to go and register your company with them. This brings the host into their site. They see the quality design (which i do like findsp!) and they see the forums.... By using your service, a host would miss all of that.

No. Like I mentioned before. No host would just submit his listing and be done. I fully expect all my users to take the time they saved by using my tool, and go around make sure they are listed right. My service is not intented to seperate the hosts from the directories. It is intented to save those marketing guys some time, so they can use that time to post in forums(like WHT), write articles/tutorials, answer sales questions...

Even if I add centralized advertisement managment to my service, I still expect my users to visit each directory before making a decision as to advertise on which one.

Thanks,

Peter

Hello Peter


Here is what I am willing to do, I am not sure how your script works, but I could create a second template that will have a design and will say, sponsored or, incooperation with your company or something like this, but then I would expect something in return, and not money, but maybe advertising or something similar.

Our host center enables hosts to add tutorials, view statistics and so much more than just hosting plans.

I just don't get it what are you trying to do, i mean yea it's a good thing when you have so many hosts who are willing to pay but don't you get it that if most of the host directories won't be cooperating with you and this is what will happen for sure (!!!) you will be selling a bad product, even though the coding and design of it is amazing?

Think about my offer, this is as far as I can go or any other serious host owner.

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
Super sim

a few questions:

how old are you??

and, do you understand anything of what going on in the hosting industry?


"leave him alone" "afraid of your pruduct"?????????????



huh??????

Yes, Yes , yesssss Leave him alone, you dont like the idea then get lost. let other people give their opinion to Peter.

Did you ever see Hotmail begging Yahoo: "Please please yahoo dont give free pop3 emails, please that is no good for the industry.. " if yahoo decided to give free pop3 emails is because they see other benefits.

If peter decides to launch his product there is nothing you can do about it. Lets see what happens. I belive that many hosts will prefer this product instead of doing it manually.

And to answer your question, I am old enough to spell the word F E A R coming out of you.

We got your point, you don’t like it, Now get lost… and let other people give their opinion about Peters Product which I think is very good.

Lonny, lets talk over PM.

Peter

Supersim, thanks for the support. I will do my best on this product.

Peter

"I am old enough to spell the word F E A R coming out of you. "

that would be 8? 9?

come on, he is not my competitor!!!!! don't you get it??

People,
I thank you all for contributing to this thread. I appreciate the support as well as the critisism. There is no need to argue off-topic.

Peter

Originally posted by FindSP.Com

come on you idiot he is not my competitor!!!!! don't you get it??

Wait.

There is no need to start insulting. Here you show your unprofessional part.

You are right he is not your competitor, but if you go at the begging of this thread and take a look at your previous posts you will see when you posted in some way that Peters product will hurt your directory in an indirect way.

I didn’t know that it was allowed to insult people on this thread.

I will leave this thread now and find something better to do instead of receiving insults from you, since you are out of control and starting to act unprofessionally.

Best wishes to you peter.

Bye

heheh, yea ok, I'll be talking to Peter and anyone else who contacted me through PM, and hey Supersim, sorry about before. :) things got a little out of hand, but it just made me a bit angry that you made remarks about some things you know nothing about, but never mind, let's not keep arguing over those things again. :)

It's obvious FindSP is against this idea as it will most likely hurt his income. But hey, that's business, it happens all the time.
FindSP and other host dir owners could block any software performing automated submission, it's their right.

In my opinion, the idea of such an automate submission tool is very good, and most webhosts will want to use it, however in reality, every host dir owner will block this software, and the tool will be useless.

So my advice to ckpeter is to form individual partnerships with the hosting directories, as that will be the only way the service will succeed.

Good luck.

Thanks, Boksoft, that's exactly what I am doing right now.

Peter

Me too ;)

I'm glad I brought both parties together.....hehe :) (altough they would have figured it out themselves too)

ckpeter,

I suggest you hit google and start looking for small host dirs. See if you can forge some kind of tentative agreement with them.

I know you will only have a small number of hosts using your service in the beginning, but that's ok.

Get positive replies(don't promise the world, just a few continents, and maybe a small sea ;) ) and make sure you have a going concern. You don't want to work on this much further if you've contacted all the host dirs you can find and only have one or two partners. Just let them know you are surveying the market looking for potential site partners.

An idea that just popped in my head... Become a hosting directory directory! :D It can't help but be good for you link pop.

Andrew, thanks for the suggestion. I am now actively visiting and inviting small host directory.

As for making my own directory, well, I don't think I have time for that, given all the development still need to be done on this service. Althought when I have a sizable number of subscribers, I could look into selling all the info as a "Web Host Directory Startup Kit for dummy". :D

Peter

Besides looking for partners, I am also looking for web host who is willing to let me test my service using their profile, please see top post for details.

Thanks,

Peter

I am in the process of making this service also, and lonny has told me the same thing, but I dont think that his point is very valid. (no offense) When I looked for a host (before I had my own) I looked at all the directories. I also looked for a host with a lot of the things I was looking for, then I went to there site for a more detailed description of what they had to offer, and didnt just look at what they said on the directory.

Just my 2 cents. Good Luck!

Justin

Also, I went around and emailed each of the directories, and hostsearch.com didnt want them added because they add to the database by hand, but other than them everyone seem happy about it. :)

Actually that is not my point. And again, I'm not sure that many host dirs would agree to that... I'll just sit quietly and wait to see what happens.

BTW James Cross from webhostdir.com visits these forums, what does he has to say about all this?

Peter, I am more than willing to participate in your service. Please contact me if you need me. Please contact me.

Good luck in your venture Peter.

Thanks Eric.

I personally don't see why directory owner will refuse the partnership. But I would like to throw this idea out. (If you are a web host directory owner, please don't be offended, I have no plan as of now to implement this idea, this is just a discussion).

I don't necessary need permission to access the directory using code. My service is acting on behalf of my client(aka, web hosts) as an agent, just like IE or netscape. The only difference is that this agent is more intellegent(i.e. it can submit automatically), and it doesn't show the ads. But even this difference is not really that different from when a webhost hire an outside marketing agent to submit their lists: the ads are still not showing through to the web host, the lost of interaction, ...

As for the lost of ads, the situation is just like using ad-blocking software and accessing portal site: The ads are blocked.

This idea should be valid as long as I have my users agree that my service is acting on their behalf, and the site doesn't have an AUP that explicitly ban bot-access.

What do you guys think?

Clarification: I am most likely not going to use this idea. Without a partnership, the time I have to spent monitoring and reverse-engineering any changes to the interface is too large. I would much rather build up my user base, and let my users ask the directory to open up.

Peter

hehhe, nope, you are wrong, you need a permission to use their fields from the software.


you can't use the submit and edit code which are inside the control center anywhere you want.

It's a fact - nothing to argue about.

Not sure about that lonny. If I am not mistaking, eBay sued biddersedge.com over spiderring there site and lost. I think this is kinda the same thing.