I have been trying to close my account and they refuse to do it

I opened the account on or about the 3rd of september i got approved on or about the 8th of september, I never signed or returned the contract to them

On the 11th i called them because i got a letter in the mail stating my monthly service fees would be $54.95 instead of $34.95

I said i wanted the account closed because i had found a better merchant provider

They said that they were going to charge me a $225 cancelation fee i refused to pay it and they refused to close the account so i disconnected the call, In turn i called right back and spoke to another lady there she informed me that there is a $300 cancelation fee :eek:

I refused to pay that as well, i got ahold of a supervisor and she said she would waive the cancelation fee, all i had to do was fax a letter stating i wanted it closed, No PROBLEM i faxed it but forgot to sign it so the lady called me back and said it wasnt signed i apoligized and resent it while she was on the phone she said that she got it the account will be closed

Now here it is the 16th and the account is still not closed and there saying they never got the letter

I called them at 12:00PM EST and got told "there not in" so i called back at 4PM EST and got told "There not in"

There hours are mon-fri 8AM to 5PM PST

I guess they get to work at 8AM and go to lunch at 9AM and come back from lunch at 4PM and go home at 5PM:angry:

I want to know if i can get an injunction against them
If so how do i go about it,

I think they are stretching it out so they can bill the checking account on file with them
I know i can have my bank return it but thats not the point

They do NOT have a signed contract, They have nothing from me except a cancelation letter (that they say they dont have anymore)

What should i do????????????

Also on charge.com it says free check processing software
HAHAHAHA

They gave me a free demo of checkman.com
That i already had :eek:

LOL

If they don't have a signed contract...how are they charging you these fees? Just don't pay them. Dispute any collection agency attempts.

well they said if i cancel they will bill my checking account
If i dont cancel they will bill my checking account for $54.95/month

The amount i never agreed to

Im not really worried about it because if they charge my checking account i will return it to them

The basic reason for this post is to warn as many people as i can

I have also filled complaints with

BBB(does no good but i did it anyway)
Visa
Mastercard
AMEX
Discover
Linkpoint(there internet gateway provider)
I filed a fraud report with my local law enforment

i also faxed them 333 times the paper stating i wanted the account canceled and i refuse to pay because i never signed the contract ( a bit much really but what the hell its a tax write off for the long distance charges, LOL):eek:

Originally posted by TheVHWay
well they said if i cancel they will bill my checking account
If i dont cancel they will bill my checking account for $54.95/month


How can they do that if you never returned the contract? Where did they get your checking account info from?

That is all required on there online app

describing the problem in closing the account, I might have had sympathy for you....

However,

You agreed...they set it up...you changed your mind....

On what basis do you now say the lady hasn't taken care of it? They are a big operation. One may not know what another has done. That you suspect they may bill you? You certainly offer no evidence they have.

And, last, this is where you completely lost me. (1) The accusations of fraud...there is no evidence....maybe some sloppiness, but no fraud. (2) Filing complaints with everyone you know. You seem more bent on revenge than solution, and (3) faxing the item 333 times. Are you actually proud of that? So childish!

Companies make mistakes. They sometimes take time to correct them. But these companies have been around a long time and provided many with excellent service. They are not fraudsters and, frankly, if they were willing to stoop to your level, they would be the ones threatening legal action because of your labelling them as such.

We no i am not out for revenge i just think that everyone should know what they did, I never signed the contract or agreed to anything I submitted the application(that was a no obligation)

They monthly fees were supposed to be $19.95 gateway and a $10 statement i posted wrong in the other posts

Then they call me and say that they have "reasessed" my application and my rates went up

That the fraud IMO

Yes i faxed it that many times because they kept saying they didnt get it

I just got off the phone with them and guess what they said they didnt get any of the 333 faxes

I reported them to everyone as a warning to others!

They did not bill me at all yet but they are saying they are going to, When i never agreed to the contract and never signed it they shouldnt have even set it up untill i did so

They took it upon them selfs to agree for me, the funny part is i got told that they were raising my rates because they could, because they have a 6 month signed contract i proceded to tell them at that point that i didnt sign the contract and i want it canceled(this was the first time i spoke with them after completeing the App)

Them telling me that they ARE going to charge my checking account and i cant stop them is fraud you may not see it this way though

You have your opinion of them and i have mine

What merchant provider that you found better, by the way? I am interested in applying for a merchant account.

Charge.com is an agent of Cardservice International. Why didn't you apply from Cardservice directly?

Change your bank account number
that way that can't get any money from it

well as for who i found thats better http://merchantanywhere.com

and as for changing my account number, That would cost me
If they do charge it my bank will return it for no charge to me
Ill have the money back in 3 or 4 days and they will get a chargeback fee

It cost money to change account number?
if so just make sign up for another account and use that.

Its not worth it to do that, i dont mind returning the charge IF they do charge it

Yeah, I have a charge.com merchant account and I have to admit, they are not the sharpest people I know. In retrospect, I have to admit I was able to resolve many issues over time to get things the way they are supposed to be, but now I have a problem with my rolling reserve that I know will cause me to have many headaches in the next few weeks to come.

Honestly, I am very very close to terminating my account with them and getting a merchant account elswhere. My experience with them is that they do not have their act together. I am quite sure there are plenty of folks out there that have not even caught the many mistakes Charge.com commits in their merchant account setup process. All I can say is that with a good amount of following up, I have been able to resolve the mistakes, but I keep finding new ones as my current problem is the fact I have not been getting back my reserve after doing business with them for a year now.

My reserve is supposed to roll over after 6 months and I have not seen one penny yet.

This amounts to close over 1,000.00 for the last six months!!

I am sure I will get it, but the point of this post is to point out that Charge.com is not an efficiently run outfit.

The battle begins at the end of this month when I secure a new merchant account.

Robert

We got our merchant account from charge.com and I don't have any problem with them.

Seems like you want to get away/break the contract without getting penalized from doing so.

Originally posted by Incognito


And, last, this is where you completely lost me. (1) The accusations of fraud...there is no evidence....maybe some sloppiness, but no fraud. (2) Filing complaints with everyone you know. You seem more bent on revenge than solution, and (3) faxing the item 333 times. Are you actually proud of that? So childish!

I have to agree Incognito on this issue. How can you expect a company to work with you, after you have publically stated that they are fraudalent? Persistance pays off as another member above my post has already demonstrated.

Send Charge.com a notice telling them that you are no longer interested in their service and to cease billing you or you will get a return on those charges and place a stop payment on the transactions from recurring.

Good luck.

Originally posted by FHDave
We got our merchant account from charge.com and I don't have any problem with them.

Seems like you want to get away/break the contract without getting penalized from doing so.


Ditto -- Other than the less than clueful people answering the telephones I have been pretty pleased with the service to date.

I would have been fine with the setup, Untill they called me telling me they raised the rates from $35 to $55 a month, They thought that i had already signed the contract BUT I DID NOT

There is no contract to break since i didnt sign it
And yes they are to me fraudulent since they said they are going to charge my checking account no matter what i say or do

I called them again and the lady i talked to said ok you account is closed, didnt feel right i cant explain it, But i called right back and after i told them my name and merchant ID the first thing asked by me was "Is my account closed" the guy that answered said "NO"

So yes they are fraudulent, We can sit here for a long time agruing about why they are and arenot fraudulent but the fact is to me i see them as fraudulent, Im just making sure people see what they do

Originally posted by Incognito
You agreed...they set it up...you changed your mind....

Did you read the post? He didn't sign the contract, just an application. No merchant agreement starts after the application.

And, last, this is where you completely lost me. (1) The accusations of fraud...there is no evidence....maybe some sloppiness, but no fraud. (2) Filing complaints with everyone you know. You seem more bent on revenge than solution, and (3) faxing the item 333 times. Are you actually proud of that? So childish!

Oh, and you would simply say "well darn, I didn't sign any contract, yet they are charging me a cancelation fee for something I didn't even agree to. Oh well! Companies make mistakes!"

if they were willing to stoop to your level[/B]

No offense here, but did you reply to the correct post? He didn't sign a contract and they are threatening an early cancelation fee. He never even signed the contract...

Seems like you want to get away/break the contract without getting penalized from doing so.

Wow... two people that didn't read the post. Feel free to explain how he could possibly break a contract he didn't sign.

I have to agree Incognito on this issue. How can you expect a company to work with you, after you have publically stated that they are fraudalent? Persistance pays off as another member above my post has already demonstrated.

Although I somewhat agree that publically stating they are fraudulent wasn't the greatest idea, I'd also be pretty pissed if this company made this many "mistakes" in a row "on accident". I think there are limitations to how many mistakes a person/company can make before it gets a bit fishy.

I can tell you from personal experience in the bankcard industry, that CardService is a very large nationwide processor.

And while they are a competitor of ours - I have to say that they are NOT "fraudulent". It is really important to read the terms and conditions of any merchant account that you sign up for. In fact, it is prudent to read the agreement for ANY business agreement that you agree to.

CardService does have some very unfavorable terms on cancelling accounts and so forth. They do this as a way of trying to "lock" merchants into their program by making it costly to switch.

I'll make one other suggestion: when trying to get something resolved with a company like that, I don't think it is going to help your cause by sending them 300 faxes... all it is going to do is tick off the person handling it and they will likely do less to assist you.

You will also want to be careful in that they may put a ding against your personal credit if you don't pay your agreed upon fee to them... and even send it out to collections. It is not going to be worth it to mess up your personal credit over this issue, IMHO.

Lastly, even if you did not "sign" an agreement with them - this doesn't preclude their capacity to pursue action against you. And they may have sent you a letter with verbiage to the effect of "by processing your first sale, you agree to these terms" or something along those lines.

BTW - one other note... the merchant "application" is typically not just an application but the full legal agreement for the merchant account which takes effect, provided that the account is approved.

Firstly i only filled out the info online

Secondly i never processed a sale they were so eager to raise my rates that they never even looked to see what they had,
NO signed APP, nothing from me saying they could charge me,
I did NOT agree to the cancellation fee, I mean they have nothing but IMHO an inquiry to see if i am eligable or not

I have done the same with a few others out there, they didnt try to charge me a cancelation fee when i decided not to process through them, I NEVER told them i would and i never setup the gateway, so they have nothing to bound me to those terms,

And yes i read everything that has to do to terms and conditions

Originally posted by cdgcommerce
BTW - one other note... the merchant "application" is typically not just an application but the full legal agreement for the merchant account which takes effect, provided that the account is approved.

How much experience do you have in this industry? First, your comment is simply silly, since Charge.com's application does not imply any type of agreement whether contractual or not. In fact, the exact text is "Sign Up Now with No Fee and No Obligation". That in itself indemnifies any implied contract. Either that, or Charge.com is openly advertising misinformation on their website, which is a violation of the law.

I'm not saying they are fraudulent in any way. I'm simply stating, that an Internet application without any terms is not a contract.

Originally posted by TheVHWay
Firstly i only filled out the info online

I am on your side TheVHWay. The people on Charge.com are nice until you try to tell them that you no longer want to use their service. Then they won't let you out. Just to prove that VHWay is right about them being fraudulent, here is what happened to my mother.

She opened an account with them. That was fine. She made a mistake on the application where she filled out the amount of money she would make each month and how much each item cost. She said she made $300. a month and and the average price of her items was $300.00. Because of this mistake Charge.com decided to close her account even when she called them up to attempt to fix it. They said they were declining her no matter what. My mother didn't even cancel it, THEY CANCELED IT. On the phone they told her they were declining her account but they were also charging her the monthly fee. The account was never opened and they still charged her bank account. This is ILLEGAL.

Through this i also found out Northfork would not do a chargeback and they are a lousy bank.

I still have to correct this mess. What you have to do VH is write a cancellation letter to Charge.com and CC the same letter to the Politicians in your State or District. Call your Mayor or Senators office describe the problem and they will usually have someone in the office who will try to take action for you. If your senator calls them they are more likely to listen to them or their office. To them your nobody and unfortunately sometimes you have to take this route. But definitely write the same letter and CC a copy and call your local politician and tell them about the illegal cancellation fees and your difficulty in dealing with them.



And yes i read everything that has to do to terms and conditions

YES, I absolutely agree that Cardservice International is a scam and a fraudulent company. I never signed a contract with them. Yet they forged the contract and opened a fraudulent account in my name. I send them a warning that I never opened an account. Yet they refused to act upon it and fraudulently placed me on the terminated merchant list. There are a lot of merchants whose contracts were forged and they were illegally placed on the terminated list. Go to badbusiness.bureau.com and see reports against Cardservices International. Cardservice is mafia that belongs to jail!

I was considering using Charge.com for my merchant card processing services, but decided to investigate their reputation before proceeding with them. I found a link to this thread on Google, and I'm glad I read your comments. I also found a review of them on Webhostingtoolbox.com, and all of the comments there were negative. As a result, I've decided not to use Charge.com's services. I'm signing up with the card processing company that Monster.com uses. They too have a $250 fee for early termination of the 3 years contract for their services. This fee isn't unusual.

The initiator of this thread claims that Charge.com is debiting his bank for services he never agreed to, and that he only went so far as to submit the original online application. This can't be true as the initial application does not ask for any bank information from the applicant. Bank information is only exchanged once the applicant replies to the Charge.com's email reply which asks the applicant to activate his contract with Charge.com.

I see that the thread starter, TheVHWay, has been banned from this forum. Perhaps his problems with business and social interaction went deeper than just the quarrel he describes here.

Thanks for replying to my post. Well, I cannot possibly understand why they would ban vh1 from this forum. I believe him 100 percent. I experienced similar problems like he did. If you go to badbusinessbureau.com or thecomplaintstation, you can read all the comments from other people that make similar comments about Cardservices International. They say that Cardservice fraudulently places people on the match system(terminated merchant list) , some contracts were forged, many accounts were charged without authorization. Termination merchant fees are not charged by any reputable merchant provider. Cancellation fees violate fair competition laws.

Originally posted by Alfa
Change your bank account number
that way that can't get any money from it

That is by far the worst thing you can do. We have had a financial consulting client that did that and the banks (local bank and merchant bank) penalized him heavily for it.

Regarding cancellation fees on merchant accounts - they are not illegal for a processor to charge as long as this fact is properly disclosed in advance.

That being said - I think one of the big problems in the merchant account industry is that some companies "softpedal" or just plainly fail to mention any of the terms & conditions that take effect if an account is closed prior to a given period of time.

The good news is that there are merchant account programs avaialble in the market that do not have any termination/cancellation fees at all. This is, of course, more of the exception to the rule than the "norm."

In my opinion, regardless of the industry - if a company is confident about the level of service it provides, the need for a cancellation/termination fee penalty is minimal at best.

For some industry types, when there is a larger upfront amount that is spent - such as a free cell phone with a one year cell phone service commitment, I can understand why it is being done... the company wants to ensure a return on their investment and they don't want someone to signup just for the free phone and then switch services 30 days later to someone else.

There are also definite upfront costs involved with setting up a merchant account and in the cases of some merchant processors that invest substantially in direct marketing, I'm sure some of them want to "lock in" merchants as much as possible to help recoup some of that marketing investment.

My advice when looking at various payment options is to ask a lot of questions and get all of your answers upfront -and in writing- prior to signing up with any given processor.

Originally posted by cdgcommerce
BTW - one other note... the merchant "application" is typically not just an application but the full legal agreement for the merchant account which takes effect, provided that the account is approved.

Even if this was the case which I highly doubt it is since there's an additional contract, the agreement would be based on the first rates he was given, not their modified rates.

Originally posted by cdgcommerce
My advice when looking at various payment options is to ask a lot of questions and get all of your answers upfront -and in writing- prior to signing up with any given processor.

He didn't "sign" up, he simply applied. He was then given higher rates than promised during his application and he turned it down.

No signature = no contract = no payments.

Originally posted by Amdac
He didn't "sign" up, he simply applied. He was then given higher rates than promised during his application and he turned it down.

No signature = no contract = no payments.

He didn't simply apply. He signed up. They don't ask for one's bank account number until one signs up. Signing up is accomplished by activating one's contract when one replies to their email with one's bank account number. I hope that by "signature" you mean any formal agreement enacted by electronic signature, or pressing an "accept" button, or replying in the affirmative to an email that asks one to finalize an agreement by, say, giving one's bank account number with permission to withdraw funds. Go to Charge.com's site and see for yourself.

Giving ones account number to the company is not the same as authorization to debit. Some merchant processors ask this information to simply apply. Even if your application is rejected, they ask you for bank routing and account numbers. Some of these fraudulent processors such as Cardservice, will debit your account without authorization. Forging contracts and debiting bank account without express authorization is fraud. They cannot use contract or application as an excuse.

You're not listening. I'm saying, and I know because I applied to Charge.com, that they do not ask for one's account number except in the contract activation email. You reply to the account activation email with your bank account number and the express consent to agree to their contract terms. fin.

A little OT, but I noticed this on their website:

"Charge.Com tells you how to accept credit cards and checks online."
(4 apples) - Apple Computer, Inc.

Since when does Apple do ratings?

I don't think Apple Computer, Inc is suppose to be the Apple we all know and love (or hate :-P)

We used charge.com when they were resellers of Authorize.net. Our setup was smooth and we had no problems at all getting set up. However, since their move to Cardservice International, I'm not entirely sure how that's affected their quality though I can say that they have NOT been helpful in resolving issues we've had with Authorize.net/iPayment since the switch.

Just my two...

Roj

If they did raise the rates on you, then no, you do not have to pay. charge.com is one of the worst resellers I have ever seen. I contacted them once & was not please with their answers at all. I still do business with Cardservice and I have been very please with the way they have handled my account as well as the reseller that I went thru.

Does anybody realize this thread is over a year old which has been brought back to life again?

Wow, didn't realize it was that old...however, seems like the issues haven't vanished yet!

Roj

Yeah, threads like this regenerate, 'cuz charge.com still sucks. They're the shadiest *** major resellers of Cardservice. If you hear something bad about them, it's probably true. It's not the charge.com that used to be on promoted by then owner Sheila Danzig on the old i-sales mailing list. I think she divored Greg Danzig, and he now runs the company... less than honestly, at that. They're now the kind of company that screws you, and is surprised when you don't like it or feel that it's not honest and just. Geesh.

I'll just add my two cents here in case it helps someone out searching the forums in the future.

I've gone through maybe 6 merchant card processors in my life. All awful in their own ways, but Cardservice has probably been the least awful so far, and with the best support. When they screw you, at least you know where you stand with them -- what your hold is, when it'll be released, etc. With a lot of other merchant processors, it'll be tough if not impossible for you to find out that info. A lot of processors are organized like shady insurance companies -- very hard to get a hold of anybody. CSI may be mean to people every now and then, but I've never had trouble getting a hold of anybody, and mymerchantoffice.com lets you know where you stand right away.

It's funny, I got that la ink directly from a supervisor in the 'agent partner services' when I was complaining about charge.com. I used that link to get the merch account, then I bought Verisign Payflow Pro directly. So far, so good, except for a $30k a month cap.

Speaking of gateway... Linkpoint is OK. It's about middle of the road in terms of support and features.

Authorize.net has been the worst, even when I've consulted for other companies. If you have any kind of prob with AuthNet, some of their support team tends to invoke some 'we're not responsible for what we're responsible for' crap from their contracts. Well, that's BS. There's something called the warranty of merchantability which is law in the US (and just a commonsense, ethical idea) -- a service or product has to do what that service or product is supposed to do, period. I haven't had the displeasure of using them for months. I hear they're new ownership yet again, so maybe they've changed their evil ways.

Best gateway I've used so far is Verisign Payflow Pro due to their automated, anti-fraud tools. Expensive, though, runs me about $130/mo with all the options I have enabled. Honestly, I didn't like signing up for Payflow Pro -- they ran me through some dimwit of a salesperson. But if low fraud is your thing, you want this thing. Low fraud will save you from rate hiking, etc. It'll tell you if a customers address is a mailbox/maildrop, it'll geolocate 'em, it'll do all kinds of great stuff. I like it a lot.

If others could make mention of merch accounts they're using, that'd be great -- especially ones that can accept hundreds of thousands of dollars per month, in a short amount of time. For some reason, most processors think you're doing something bad when you make money fast. I guess they've never heard of advertising. It sucks when you start a new venture, and it's capped at something like $30k a month. Brick and mortar merchant accounts, some of them have $1million caps for new businesses, yet it's easier (to me) to generate sales volume online. Go figure.

I've had absolutely flawless service from Authorize.net. We process 10s of 1000s of $$ with them per month for over a year.

--Tina

We use linkpoint, no issue at all. We also process quite a large volume of payments with them every month.

Originally posted by AH-Tina
I've had absolutely flawless service from Authorize.net. We process 10s of 1000s of $$ with them per month for over a year.

--Tina

Sometimes it depends on how big a processor's who account is with Authorize.Net. Some processors keep Authorize.net in line. You using Wells Fargo with them, by any chance? I hear they interface well.

If not Wells, would you mind mentioning who your processor is, and if you recommend them? Thanks.

Originally posted by Yash (JodoHost)
We use linkpoint, no issue at all. We also process quite a large volume of payments with them every month.

Yeah, Linkpoint seems pretty reliable and has decent support (Linkpoint is from Cardservice, in case you folks don't know).

Reason I migrated to Payflow Pro was the utter gads of anti-fraud technology. It has 50 point anti-fraud, something like that. At the time, I was still waiting for Linkpoint to fully implement CVV and fraud scoring, so the choice was clear - almost no fraud protection vs 'my god, it's full of stars' protection. The more expensive security packages through Payflow Pro are like what overstock.com and some of the fancier online PC vendors use. Crazy good stuff.

How Linkpoint anti-fraud now? I actually still have a linkpoint account, so I should login at check it out. A big plus for Linkpoint is that I remember it being pretty darn simple to operate. And, of course, being Cardservice owned, they can't blame "the processor" for problems as I've experienced AuthNet doing on more than one of my accounts. If they have good anti-fraud now, I'd definitely recommend Linkpoint.

Which processor (merchant account) do you use, btw? Do you recommend them?

I would recommend highly against disputing charges against CSI. They
will probably TMF/Match list you. Further, from personal experience with
Card Services, they are a legitimate provider and they do a pretty good
job at what they do, compared to other processors.

If you completed an online application, you "signed" a contract with them.
And in doing so, agreed to their fees. Also, as a merchant provider, all
and any charges you put through to them is concidered an unsecured
loan by V/MC and thus they have a right to keep your checking account
information on file, and debit you for any chargebacks/discount fees/returns
etc. for as long as the contract states (usually something like 18 months.)

I strongly recommend you read up on what you agreed to and what you are
getting yourself into before slandering a legitimate company on a public
forum.

One more thing: Would you not hold one of your own customers accountable
if they signed up for your service, you spent money on processing their app (CSI
has to underwrite every application, assess the risk on it, and process it
and this takes man power, man power = time and time = expensive.)
and then decided that he didn't want it?

You're acting very childish and frankly silly. Accept accountability. Call the
sup back that you talked to over there and explain your situation forgoing
the screaming, cussing, and whining. If you talk to people with respect,
they will give you respect back. That's not a business rule, just a rule of life.

Dan

Originally posted by rosa3412
Giving ones account number to the company is not the same as authorization to debit. Some merchant processors ask this information to simply apply. Even if your application is rejected, they ask you for bank routing and account numbers. Some of these fraudulent processors such as Cardservice, will debit your account without authorization. Forging contracts and debiting bank account without express authorization is fraud. They cannot use contract or application as an excuse.

They don't ask for it to simply apply. They ask for it so they can debit
your bank account for chargebacks and discount fees. There is a very
good reason they ask for what they ask for.

CSI is NOT fraudulent. In fact, while their practices may be hard to
understand, it is only because they will be held accountable by their
bank, processing network, and V/MC if you, as the account holder,
are unable to pay for your own chargebacks.

These companies have taken multi-million dollar hits before, because
cardholders have NSF'd (not enough mulla in the bank) when they went
to debit a customer for a large amount of cbacks.

CSI is part of First Data Corp., arguably one of the largest financial
services companies. They also happen to own Western Union. I highly
doubt your $54 dollars a month are worth stealing and defrauding you.

They are simply enforcing their contract. Nothing wrong with that.

(And before you argue back, I'd recommend reading that very agreement.)

Originally posted by AH-Tina
I've had absolutely flawless service from Authorize.net. We process 10s of 1000s of $$ with them per month for over a year.

--Tina

Authnet is pretty good.

This is gonna be my last reply to this aged thread for a bit, I've got three
in, in a row ;)

Dan

Originally posted by jfisk
How Linkpoint anti-fraud now? I actually still have a linkpoint account, so I should login at check it out. A big plus for Linkpoint is that I remember it being pretty darn simple to operate. And, of course, being Cardservice owned, they can't blame "the processor" for problems as I've experienced AuthNet doing on more than one of my accounts. If they have good anti-fraud now, I'd definitely recommend Linkpoint.

Which processor (merchant account) do you use, btw? Do you recommend them?
LinkPoint is coming out with a products as well called LinkShield. They have been btea testing it and will hopefully roll it out for sometime this year.

For the most part - LinkPoint is only compatible with CSI. First Data did have a smaller gateway thay allowed Chase & a few other acquiring banks to brand & sell for merchant account processing. But usually if someone says they have LinkPoint, chances are pretyt high they use Cardservice. It is one big drawback with LinkPoint - they cannot see the potential for marketing their product like Authorizenet.com and Verisign do

Cardservice International forges contracts of merchants. Many merchants never signed up with them. Also if they are so legitimate why are they so inflexible? Why do they have to put people on terminated merchant list when those people claimed they never authorized their services? Why do they have to be so argumentative and rude? THERE ARE NUMEROUS COMPLAINTS ABOUT CARDSERVICE. NO OTHER SINGLE PROCESSOR HAS SO MANY MERCHANT COMPLAINTS AS CARDSERVICE. IT IS not about the system, it is about lousy and selfish people at cardservice who dont listen and dont act on complaints received from victims of fraud or merchants. No other company would act like Cardservice. WHY WOULD I LIE? i DEALT WITH MANY COMPANIES. THEY WERE GOOD COMPANIES COMPARED TO CORRUPT AND SELFISH CARDSERVICE.
CARDSERVICE WAS RUDE AND PERSISTENT ON DOING WHAT IT WANTED. IT CONTINUED TO REPORT A FRAUDULENT ACCOUNT UNDER MY NAME.

Rosa,

I'm not calling you a lier. Chances are, like many merchants, especially
in this industry, you simply didn't read their contract before opening
an account.

There are numerous complaints about every large business. CSI is a
huge company, they employee thousands of people and are part of
First Data, a publically traded firm that also owns Western Union and
the largest ATM network in the US.

Obviously, they can't keep everyone happy. No happier than any large
financial company, search for any bank on google and I am sure you will
find negative comments, just like most large web hosts and almost all
large processing companies.

midPhase processed high six figures with them in 2004, and while we
switched to another processor, I can honestly say I would come back if
they could offer 24-hour funding. The only reason we switched was that
our new processor, Nova, is owned by our bank, US Bank, and can fund
us within 24 hours.

CSI more than likely is doing everything by their book. They are in a highly
regulated field, you should honestly try and understand their reasons
before slandering them.

Then again, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I don't
know of a single firm that would falsify a contract between them and you,
do you honestly think your $50/mo is worth a law suite for fraud? I think
your just trying to get out of your contract with them.

Originally posted by midphase-Dan


midPhase processed high six figures with them in 2004, and while we
switched to another processor, I can honestly say I would come back if
they could offer 24-hour funding. The only reason we switched was that
our new processor, Nova, is owned by our bank, US Bank, and can fund
us within 24 hours.

CSI more than likely is doing everything by their book. They are in a highly
regulated field, you should honestly try and understand their reasons
before slandering them.

Then again, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I don't
know of a single firm that would falsify a contract between them and you,
do you honestly think your $50/mo is worth a law suite for fraud? I think
your just trying to get out of your contract with them.

Two things - first, dealing with Cardservice directly or through a reputable reseller that pulls punches for you is SUPERIOR to dealing with an account resold through charge.com. I had a CSI account resold through Charge.com, and that was the problem right there - Charge.com. CSI were GREAT, their supervisor understood the problems I had with charge.com (CSI gets lots of complaints about their misrepresentation), and showed me how to get a CSI account directly that's represented honestly. She gave me this link:

https://onlineapp.cardservice.com/default.asp?agent=csi/vnb

I don't know if it stills work or not, but it was a great start account.

You gotta figure, Rosa is bouncing back and forth between laying blame on CSI and Charge.com. She indeed wants to get out of a contract, true, but that doesn't mean the charge.com is a good service. If you stay with a charge.com resold account there can be other surprises down the road, that you DO NOT GET through CSI direct or through some of the better CSI resellers (some of which can be found right on WHT).

For instance, when I first signed up through charge.com, I was told that if I was uhappy with Linkpoint that I could change over to whatever gateway I wanted. "No problem, we can switch you over to Authorize.net or Verisign same day" The "Linkshield" service that was promised last year never came, and I really NEEDED anti-fraud. Fraud scoring, or more. Well, Charge.com's tune changed after I was setup sold. They told me that in fact, I was stuck with linkpoint now that I'm approved (you could almost hear evil laughter). I escalted this to their supervisors, which are hard to get in contact with. Same thing. They wanted to force me to setup another account to use another gateway! Sales says one thing, backend says another. What crap. They lied about lots of little things, too, and there's no one pettier than someone who lies about the small stuff. Liars are about as big as their lies, which makes these guys pretty small indeed.

Since switching to CSI direct, it's been wonderful. CSI simply can't chane things around when you buy from charge.com, you gotta go through charge.com for some things. CSI direct (and perhaps with good resellers), you get negotiating power. I also get 1 day deposits (as shown by mymerchantoffice.com, anyway - it actually takes 2-3 days to hit my bank acount), GREAT customer service, 24 hour information, my choice of gateways (I'm currently with Payflow Pro, but I understand that the kind of account I have can switch to other gateways with ease), and they even allow me to take JCB card from Japan and Diners Club. JCB helps me access the Asian market, which is great! Relative to other merch accounts, CSI has been a dream to deal with.

So far they haven't hit me with reserves or anything yet, but if they do, they actually tell you that right in your interface at mymerchantoffice.com. You know almost realtime how much they're holding, and when it's set to release. To me, especially considering other merchant accounts I've had in the past, CSI rocks. They're heavily automated and slick, and getting customer service doesn't take that long, either. You can also get a manager or supervisor on the phone pretty easily, and they'll actually follow up on issues with you. All makings of a good, if not great, company.

My only real complaint was that almost no one at CSI knew what "linkshield" even was while, at the same time it was advertised on their website. But that was a year ago. I'm sure it has changed. My only other little quibble is that while almost any bank will give you a $1million per month merch account for B&M sales, CSI starts you off with around a $30k/mo cap. Honestly, most other merchant accounts are even worse on this issue, starting you at $10k.

Most "online" accounts just suck for big earners, until you get a couple years history, which is kind of dumb, considering how fast you can build business on the internet. But, again, it's not CSI's position exclusively. Most of these places pretend that it's hard and slow to make money online, which it most certainly is not, especially if you sell up to $20k per sale. Even $2k sales will eat your cap like no tommorow. Adam Ginsberg, the big all-star ebayer had a problem with this selling pool tables for $1-2k each. He ate up his cap in a couple days, and his merchant account held money he needed to pay his suppliers. Now he uses Paypal exclusively, who he claims never cared if he made a million a month.

Second thing -- Your Bank One accounts seems pretty darn good! I'd love an actual one day turnaround. I sure hope they still offer this product, now that Chase Manhattan consumed them. May I ask, did you get this by going to your bank reps in person, or is there somewhere online you can signup? What kind of income cap did you get at first?

Originally posted by jfisk
Two things - first, dealing with Cardservice directly or through a reputable reseller that pulls punches for you is SUPERIOR to dealing with an account resold through charge.com. I had a CSI account resold through Charge.com, and that was the problem right there - Charge.com. CSI were GREAT, their supervisor understood the problems I had with charge.com (CSI gets lots of complaints about their misrepresentation), and showed me how to get a CSI account directly that's represented honestly. She gave me this link:

https://onlineapp.cardservice.com/default.asp?agent=csi/vnb

I don't know if it stills work or not, but it was a great start account.

You gotta figure, Rosa is bouncing back and forth between laying blame on CSI and Charge.com. She indeed wants to get out of a contract, true, but that doesn't mean the charge.com is a good service. If you stay with a charge.com resold account there can be other surprises down the road, that you DO NOT GET through CSI direct or through some of the better CSI resellers (some of which can be found right on WHT).

For instance, when I first signed up through charge.com, I was told that if I was uhappy with Linkpoint that I could change over to whatever gateway I wanted. "No problem, we can switch you over to Authorize.net or Verisign same day" The "Linkshield" service that was promised last year never came, and I really NEEDED anti-fraud. Fraud scoring, or more. Well, Charge.com's tune changed after I was setup sold. They told me that in fact, I was stuck with linkpoint now that I'm approved (you could almost hear evil laughter). I escalted this to their supervisors, which are hard to get in contact with. Same thing. They wanted to force me to setup another account to use another gateway! Sales says one thing, backend says another. What crap. They lied about lots of little things, too, and there's no one pettier than someone who lies about the small stuff. Liars are about as big as their lies, which makes these guys pretty small indeed.

Since switching to CSI direct, it's been wonderful. CSI simply can't chane things around when you buy from charge.com, you gotta go through charge.com for some things. CSI direct (and perhaps with good resellers), you get negotiating power. I also get 1 day deposits (as shown by mymerchantoffice.com, anyway - it actually takes 2-3 days to hit my bank acount), GREAT customer service, 24 hour information, my choice of gateways (I'm currently with Payflow Pro, but I understand that the kind of account I have can switch to other gateways with ease), and they even allow me to take JCB card from Japan and Diners Club. JCB helps me access the Asian market, which is great! Relative to other merch accounts, CSI has been a dream to deal with.

So far they haven't hit me with reserves or anything yet, but if they do, they actually tell you that right in your interface at mymerchantoffice.com. You know almost realtime how much they're holding, and when it's set to release. To me, especially considering other merchant accounts I've had in the past, CSI rocks. They're heavily automated and slick, and getting customer service doesn't take that long, either. You can also get a manager or supervisor on the phone pretty easily, and they'll actually follow up on issues with you. All makings of a good, if not great, company.

My only real complaint was that almost no one at CSI knew what "linkshield" even was while, at the same time it was advertised on their website. But that was a year ago. I'm sure it has changed. My only other little quibble is that while almost any bank will give you a $1million per month merch account for B&M sales, CSI starts you off with around a $30k/mo cap. Honestly, most other merchant accounts are even worse on this issue, starting you at $10k.

Most "online" accounts just suck for big earners, until you get a couple years history, which is kind of dumb, considering how fast you can build business on the internet. But, again, it's not CSI's position exclusively. Most of these places pretend that it's hard and slow to make money online, which it most certainly is not, especially if you sell up to $20k per sale. Even $2k sales will eat your cap like no tommorow. Adam Ginsberg, the big all-star ebayer had a problem with this selling pool tables for $1-2k each. He ate up his cap in a couple days, and his merchant account held money he needed to pay his suppliers. Now he uses Paypal exclusively, who he claims never cared if he made a million a month.

Second thing -- Your Bank One accounts seems pretty darn good! I'd love an actual one day turnaround. I sure hope they still offer this product, now that Chase Manhattan consumed them. May I ask, did you get this by going to your bank reps in person, or is there somewhere online you can signup? What kind of income cap did you get at first?

It's US Bank, not BankOne (Although we also have an account at BankOne.)

CSI started us off with an $85k/month cap and no holdback.

When we needed an increase in volume they added a holdback, and since have
released most of it back to us.

The key to keeping a merchant provider happy is to check in with them every
once and a while and make sure your account is in good standing. Get to know
some people that work in Loss Prevention. If you can do that, and are a nice
person, they will be nice back and take care of you.

Dan

Dan is right. What a lot of people do not realize - is when they are asking for $30,000 a month, the processor is liable for at least $180,000. When you sign up to process, you tell the processor what your expected volume is and the average ticket. All you need to do is call your processor once you see you might be going over that amount and let them know. If you call before - fantastic. If you do not call at all, expect a few extra days until they release the funds. They will sometimes call the customer to verify, just like 3PP do. Everyone just wants to protect their money

EXCUSE ME. I NEVER READ A CONTRACT? i NEVER SIGNED ANY CONTRACTS. THEY FRAUDULENTLY USED MY INFORMATION TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT. NO OTHER INSTITUTION IN AMERICA DOES IT.
CARDSERVICE IS A BOTTOM LINE. READ HOW MANY SAME COMPLAINTS THEY HAVE AGAINST THEM. WHAT IS THERE TO ARGUE ABOUT? I NEVER OPENED AN ACCOUNT WITH THEM, SOMEONE USED MY NAME TO FRAUDULENTLY OPEN AN ACCOUNT.
THEY ARE IN PRACTICE OF DOING THESE TYPES OF SCAMS.

JUST BECAUSE CSI IS LARGE DOES NOT MEAN ITS NOT FRAUDULENT. ENRON WAS LARGE. IT FAILED.

CSI IS A BOTTOM LINE. NO BUSINESS IN AMERICA, NO BUSINESS IN AMERICA DOES WHAT CSI DOES. I SWEAR. I DEALT WITH MANY COMPANIES EVEN THE ONES WHO HAVE LOUSY CUSTOMER SERVICE. CSI IS THE WORST OF ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys, what Rosa has experienced is called identity theft and your suggestions that she is responsible for it are completely off-base. Recheck your facts.


Also, I too went through the exact same thing the original and follow-up posters went through.

I signed up with charge.com back when you did have to provide all the account information just to apply. It was a huge application. (Keep in mind this was years ago, just like the original poster, back in 2002-2003 this information was required online even if it is not now!) But their online application also specifically stated that it was not valid until I received their welcome packet, filled out the paper information and sent it back.

Well when the welcome packet came with the papers I needed to sign, the fees and rates were considerably higher than what I had been "guaranteed" online. Yes, guaranteed. I called charge.com up on the phone and they insisted that they had "never guaranteed rates" and I asked, how is it that I have a printout of their site from such-and-such date and the page confirms my rates and states these rates are guaranteed?

Charge.com does this all the time. It is old-fashioned bait-and-switch. However making complaints to agencies makes no difference because we are complaining as businesses and agencies like the BBB and Attorney Generals' Offices will only process complaints filed by citizens. (Yes, I have been round and round on that too)

Guys, I didn't do anything wrong. My credit was impeccable and our business record was spotless. I was promised on their website (I did print it out) that was I was guaranteed 2.19% (IIRC) but my actual rate is 3.49%.

In the end, I bent over and took it, because I had recently opened a couple of new credit cards for the business and I didn't want extensive credit checks on my credit history, as this can affect being able to get more credit in the future. I decided that at our volume, the 1.3% was not going to make that much difference and could end up costing us a lot more than if we just sucked up the bad rate and signed the agreement.


Please don't be so quick to judge these posters. They're not making it up. Charge.com is a bad, bad outfit.


:D Bailey

It is agents like charge.com that give the other agents a bad name.

And yes - I was wondering if someone might mention identity theft - but I am just curious how charge.com got her information.

And Baily if you are still with CSI, call them & get it lowered. If you have had no chargebacks, they should give you a much lower rate. This is some of the problems that caused CSI to change their practices.

Corey,

I found no relief by calling CSI on the account I went through charge.com to get. You needed charge.com hands to do a lot of the operating on some issues.

With the account I opened directly through CSI, CSI themselves have been more than accomodating.

I'm sure if I opened an account through you, the CSI/Corey combo would be accomodating as well. You really need a decent reseller. After all, you make yourself publicly accountable through forums like this, unlike the new charge.com. Back in the days when charge.com were on forums and Sheila Danzig owned them, they were a good, accountable company, too. (I'm not implying that you're not going to be one if you drop out of forums here! I do think forum participants/community members are better to do business with overall, with the Danzigs being a rare exception)

Anyway, what I'm saying is - I'm wondering how far Bailey will get by calling CSI direct on this.

Rosa, too. I think Rosa shuld be attacking charge.com, not CSI. From what I can tell, it's hell getting CSI to override one of their resellers. I don't think it's that easy for them to do, because they have contracts with their resellers, after all. You're not CSI's customer, per se, you are charge.com's customer. Charge.com was like the gateway drug to hell, and now they have to be the gateway out of it.

Have you had a client go over your head by going direct to CSI, Corey? If so, how'd you do it? If not... can you call one of your CSI contacts and explain the situation and ask for a remedy channel? "Look, lots of folks claim to be defrauded by bad resellers such as charge.com. Is there anything they do, anything I can tell them?"

Also, Bailey's right. They don't always go through that little cobranded link direct to the CSI website. They used to send out paper applications, and perhaps they still do for some of their victims. They'd overnight 'em to ya, you'd overnight 'em back. LOT more room for bait and switch fraud that way, with the reseller more in control of the process. They used their own wording, and aren't as careful and upfront as CSI is directly. Also, on the phone, sales will say almost ANYTHING to get you to sign up. You really don't get what you think you're getting when you deal with charge.com. They're a scam. Honest.

Rosa,
I think you should have your lawyer send them a letter. CHARGE.COM, not CSI, although feel free to CC it to CSI so they can see what kind of crappy reseller charge.com is. If you're low on funds, consider getting a basic prepaid legal account. There's different accounts in different states, but my business account with prepaid legal comes in awfully handy for basic letter writing and legal advice. It's been a decent service for me, since my account is handled by an absolutely monsterously sized law firm with lots of different specialistis. I now go to attorney for lots of little questions I wouldn't have bothered with before.

Also, Rosa, did you do a paper app, or did you do one of those co-branded applications right on the CSI website?

BTW, Corey. I see you sell Payflow Pro at $200 startup, $25 a month. Is that with a CSI account or through someone else? If that's right, that's a great rate and I'll end up recommending you to others. I have to pay.. what.. $59 a month base, then another $70 or so for security. I could be paying $95 a month now instead of $130. I assume the addons are the same price as I'm paying, right? Just the base price is lower?

Also, no company does what CSI does, Rosa? Apparently you've never had a cell phone with Cingular. :) Man, that company can be crap. I thought I'd seen the pinnacle of Customer Disservice Dept.'s until I ran into SBC/Pacfic Bell. Hell, I just moved and SBC shut off my newly installed land line because the last tenant who moved out 4 MONTHS ago didn't pay their bill. MY bill is up to date, my credit is perfect, my name couldn't be much more different than the last residents, and even the landlord called and said the previous resident has nothing to do with me and that they "cannot hold the residence hostage". Not even the mafia hold people responsible for unrelated people's bill, and certainly CSI doesn't do it. That's just plain old extortion, and my lawyer agrees, and very rarely sees a company act so negligently. Those two companies gave me far crap than I'll EVER see from CSI (which seems basically honest), and probably even charge.com, who are just run of the mill lyin', cheatin' bastards. SBC, for one, doesn't even respond to LEGAL contact. Who's so cocky that they don't even think they have to respond to your lawyer?

Honestly, most companies are so ultra customer service oriented these days that it's truly incredible. A lot of normal salons with $25 haircuts give you wine and cheese now. It's so great, it's hard for me to believe. Now I actually look forward to haircuts for the first time in my life. We've really got it good in America, and are used to being pampered. So it's especially disheartening when you run into one of these old school "customer is always wrong" companies. Stuff that companies like McDonalds tried hard to reverse in the 60s with their innovative "pro-customer" training. Although few in number, some of those old customer attackers still exist. Charge.com ain't even the worst of the lot, unfortunately.

Well to answer your question jfisk - yes, I have gone to bat for a few WHT members that needed a merchant account from overseas & I do not like the word no. We always try our best to help the merchant out as much as possible. I still know some of the execs over there so that sometimes helps as well.

And to answer the other question re: Verisign, yes and no. It can be with a CSI merchant account or you can use another MAP. As far as the add-ons, I cannot talk about the pricing in the public forum (methinks it is against the rules) but they should be cheaper, at least some of them

I used Charge.com a long time ago, and I'll tell you (note I didn't read all the posts) You're going to pay them one way or another!

The company they finace through "Leasecom" has been banned in plenty of states due to their practices, and are most likely the reason you're paying 50+ rather than 30+

When I used them, I wrote my own scripts, even scripts to process through their clearing house, and they still charged me for software I never received.

I haven't used all that many, but I'm currently using Card Service International, and must say that their rates are not too bad, and to date, they've been straight w/ me. (using them for going on 2 years)

Rosa has not experienced ID theft. She opened an account, like she said, on their
website.

Rosa, pardon me but your simply insane if you think that CSI would single you out
from the 6 billion people in this world to open a merchant account in your name so
they can make $50 a month.

That's just crazy. No offence.

As far as termination fees and cancellation charges, pick a name of a phone company
out of the hat and I'll show you a company that charges a cancellation fee if you leave
them before your year is up.

I'm done wit this thread. Rosa, don't be so thick-headed.

midphase-Dan, can you please show me where Rosa signed up for anything? She specifically did not sign up with them. Her identity was stolen, used by a third-party to open an account. Rosa never did anything, she awoke one day to find a merchant account in her name, that she never opened and never wanted. She's the victim. This is fraud in its truest sense.

Dan, with all due respect, you are the one being thick-headed here. Go back and re-read the thread... carefully.

I hope midPhase isn't run the same way ... :eek: No consumer deserves to be subject to that sort of attitude.

:D Bailey

Bailey,

This thread and my business are absolutly separate. I'm standing up for CSI in a
forum where people jump to conclusions.

I read the thread on your request again. She stated clearly she opened an account
wit them.

If Rosa is a victim of Identity Theft she should not be trying to close the account
with them directly. She should contact an attorney and have the lawyer straighten
things out.

She also is making the accusation that CSI intentionally went out of their way to
open an account with her name on it... I find that hillarious.

Dan

Dan perhaps you and I are reading different threads.

Originally posted by rosa3412
I never opened an account.

She is explicit about having never opened an account with CSI.

What I have done repeatedly but appears to be lost on ya' Dan, is step back from the thead, take Rosa's complaints a bit less literally and assess the overall situation. As a bricks-and-mortar and online merchant for nearly two decades, and as a former police officer, I've seen this issue many times and from many sides.

Dan, it is quite possible that Rosa is not as smart as you, doesn't have a lawyer, doesn't understand what identity theft is or how these things happen. Kudos to you for being so smart and wise. But that is no reason to be a jerk towards her and belittle her claims.

What I am doing, and it is not such a great stretch with my training and experience, is taking the information and going a step further by explaining how it perfectly follows the patterns of identity theft. To Rosa's perspective and any identity theft victim's perspective, yes, it does look like the problem company forged the application. This is because the perpetrator who did the forging/thieving does not divulge themselves, they don't include their calling card nor do they walk around with a sign plastered to their forehead stating it was them. That's the concept behind "forging." It's someone else pretending to be Rosa.

To the Rosa's, this application comes out of the blue, from a company they've never dealt with before, and the company dicks them around for supposedly not following through on terms that the victim never agreed to (obviously). To Rosa, the enemy is CSI, because they are the ones in her face and trashing her credit. To Rosa, there is no other enemy to fight -- CSI is the one making the problem.

To the CSI's, the application comes in from whom they think is Rosa because it seems to have all the correct information... but then the applicant (or so it seems to be the applicant) calls up and says, hey, this isn't really me and I don't want this service. Now CSI must decide how to interpret this. Is is a customer who got cold feet and is now trying to cancel by lying? Or is it identity theft, a forged app? Since CSI has no evidence to show it is forged (after all, how would they know?) they assume and pursue #1. Rosa gets badgered and blacklisted because CSI chooses to side with fraudulent information that they think is valid.

Of course when the fraudulent data matches real account, SSN and ID numbers, that's a tough thing to fight, hence the huge problem with identity theft...

This whole situation sucks. We could sit here and play the shoulda-coulda-woulda game until we are blue in the face :P the fact is Dan, not everyone is as smart as you and I, and it's our place to step up and guide them with sound advice like file a report with their local police department and contract a lawyer to assist them with straightening out their credit rating and the various obligations.

It is not our place to sit here, pass judgement, and be jerks about something that they didn't bring upon themselves. And Dan, unless you are the person at CSI who handled Rosa's application and case, I don't see where you have a whit of evidence to show that she's being dishonest. It is very easy to make guesses and assumptions, but in my book, when it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, either it's a duck, or a damn good forgery. :P



Also Dan, so long as your sig is attached to your posts, midPhase is associated with your statements. Welcome to the business world, mate. ;)


:D Bailey

bithost:

For the most part I'm with you (atleast on most of what you mentioned), however Dan does have a couple points (though he gets no points for tact)

IMHO the odds of Card Service Internation picking a business to open a bogus merchant account are beyond slim, they're non-existant. (charge.com on the other hand oi!)

Regarding identy theft: It happens, but there's also a verification process that takes place when signing up with CSI (and most other merchant account providers) that make it hard to fraudulantly open a account (copy of drivers license etc).

Even "IF" somebody had somehow gotten ahold of this information, within the first 2 bank statements she'd notice the payments, and contact them of a problem. Under the circumstances they'd have no choice but to close it (providing she could prove she didn't open it)

Has there been any charges processed?
If so where did the funds go?
Her account?
What address is used ? Hers?
Who's drivers license was presented? Hers?
Where was the contract sent? Her Home? Her Email?

"IF" this is fraud then since the account is in her name she has the right to request all of this information (request copies of everything)

"IF" this was a case a ID theft it should be easy enough to prove.

BTW. If significant portions (copy of license, contract, etc) can not be found, that's grounds to push for a cancelation.

But CSI picking her name out of a hat, to open up a bogus account just to get 20-30.00 a mo?? Not a chance

Originally posted by bithost(NET)
Dan perhaps you and I are reading different threads.



She is explicit about having never opened an account with CSI.

What I have done repeatedly but appears to be lost on ya' Dan, is step back from the thead, take Rosa's complaints a bit less literally and assess the overall situation. As a bricks-and-mortar and online merchant for nearly two decades, and as a former police officer, I've seen this issue many times and from many sides.

Dan, it is quite possible that Rosa is not as smart as you, doesn't have a lawyer, doesn't understand what identity theft is or how these things happen. Kudos to you for being so smart and wise. But that is no reason to be a jerk towards her and belittle her claims.

What I am doing, and it is not such a great stretch with my training and experience, is taking the information and going a step further by explaining how it perfectly follows the patterns of identity theft. To Rosa's perspective and any identity theft victim's perspective, yes, it does look like the problem company forged the application. This is because the perpetrator who did the forging/thieving does not divulge themselves, they don't include their calling card nor do they walk around with a sign plastered to their forehead stating it was them. That's the concept behind "forging." It's someone else pretending to be Rosa.

To the Rosa's, this application comes out of the blue, from a company they've never dealt with before, and the company dicks them around for supposedly not following through on terms that the victim never agreed to (obviously). To Rosa, the enemy is CSI, because they are the ones in her face and trashing her credit. To Rosa, there is no other enemy to fight -- CSI is the one making the problem.

To the CSI's, the application comes in from whom they think is Rosa because it seems to have all the correct information... but then the applicant (or so it seems to be the applicant) calls up and says, hey, this isn't really me and I don't want this service. Now CSI must decide how to interpret this. Is is a customer who got cold feet and is now trying to cancel by lying? Or is it identity theft, a forged app? Since CSI has no evidence to show it is forged (after all, how would they know?) they assume and pursue #1. Rosa gets badgered and blacklisted because CSI chooses to side with fraudulent information that they think is valid.

Of course when the fraudulent data matches real account, SSN and ID numbers, that's a tough thing to fight, hence the huge problem with identity theft...

This whole situation sucks. We could sit here and play the shoulda-coulda-woulda game until we are blue in the face :P the fact is Dan, not everyone is as smart as you and I, and it's our place to step up and guide them with sound advice like file a report with their local police department and contract a lawyer to assist them with straightening out their credit rating and the various obligations.

It is not our place to sit here, pass judgement, and be jerks about something that they didn't bring upon themselves. And Dan, unless you are the person at CSI who handled Rosa's application and case, I don't see where you have a whit of evidence to show that she's being dishonest. It is very easy to make guesses and assumptions, but in my book, when it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, either it's a duck, or a damn good forgery. :P



Also Dan, so long as your sig is attached to your posts, midPhase is associated with your statements. Welcome to the business world, mate. ;)


:D Bailey



All I can say is I find it highly unlikely that Rosa did not personally open the
merchant account. Let me be specific as to why:

When a fraudulent merchant account is opened, it is opened for the purpose
of stealing money. They process stolen cards through a stolen merchant account.

However, they also debit the fees from the same bank account that they deposit
them into. Thus, Rosa would have been funded as well as debit and for her to
receive large amounts of stolen money and then get charged for the processing
I find unlikely.

What is more likely is she opened an account on Charge.com's website, probably
thinking that she will be sent more information, and thus being entered into a
contract.

Contrary to your brillient anaylsis, I did read her post. I'm sorry for being
so "smart" and while I find your comments to be ignorant and blind pro-Rosa-ism
I would like to be clear that CSI is most likely doing what they should be
doing and Rosa most likely ***DID*** open an account, if she knew she
did or not, and is now not happy because CSI is rightfully so forcing her to
pay for it.

I'm all for consumers, in business and life I think treating people fairly is
the right thing to do. But, I also understand that companies have contracts
for a reason, to enforce them, and if you're blind enough to agree to one with-
out reading it or even realizing what you're doing, then you, as an adult,
should be held accountable.

I've signed a cell phone contract in the past and had to pay a termination
fee. I didn't start posting ignorant complaints on forums, I paid the fee and
moved on with my life. It was in my contract.

I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore, it is obvious that my attempts
to educate are just going to be hounded by bithost and co.

Goodbye, mate.

Well, it's been ten year since I quit Card Service International. And as I can tell from this thread, no small business should trust the poor business practices of CSI.

I have to sympathize with Rosa's experience. It can be over whelming to work with Merchant Processors if it's your first time accepting credit cards. Of the sales employees for Card Service that I have ever been in contact with, they were transfered from a main call center to a locally based sales person working from their home!!! That means no oversight folks!

When the CSI agent appeared at my house ten years ago, he arrived in a suit driving a beat up van. When we sat down to discuss the terms of the contract, he first began by showing me pictures of people he knew in Washington DC. I thought, how weird. At that point I should have thrown him out of the house. But I had a tradeshow in two weeks and so I continued to listen to his sales pitch and reviewed the main fees and the "small print". The fellow pointed out my obligations and the option allowing me to opt out of the contract which would result in a cancellation fee. Ok, that was normal.

Then the CSI agent took polaroid pictures of me next to my computer. Weird, but then I was a newbie and the credit card industry, being that there are boiler room operations doing bad business, I thought the pictures was just a way of establishing the "network of trust".

The contract I signed must have been about 7 legal sized pages in pink, yellow and white. Originals white, the others carbon copies.

I intially requested CSI services so that I could accept credit cards at a Baltimore Convention Center Show. Seven months after the show, I decided that I needed to develop my business relationships and commit to doing more wholesale buisness(by cash or checks).

When I called in and then later faxed my signed cancellation, I had been told that my service would be cancelled. I return to focusing on my business until a month later, I saw debit charges on my banking statement. When I researched the debit charges, I uncovered that a bank in California was continuing to make monthly withdraws for CSI. So I put a stop payment on that!

Alas, a week later, I received notice from a collections agency in Colorado! The collections agent sent me a form showing that I had initialized a one year agreement contract which was no longer "owned" by CSI but by a little third party bank in California!!!

First of all, the initials were not of my hand. The initials had been forged. Secondly, when I went back and reviewed my copies of the CSI contract, I found no such copies of the initialized form the collections agency had sent. So I call the Better Business Bureau in California to file a complaint against CSI. Alas, I finally had to get a lawyer to get CSI to drop everything. That was ten years ago.

I think this thread does speak for the bad business practices of CSI. While CSI is not Enron, they are related in that they both suffer from poor or corrupt executive management.

I have been using Cardservice for about five months now. Personally, I have been extremely happy with their services and their support.

As a company grows and the more customers it receives, there are always more complaints. It seems most people that are complaining are rather new, like myself.

CSI is for businesses that are professional. It is for a company that understands contracts and abides by them. It seems most of these problems start off with the agent (as the agent portrays the company). Find an agent that you like and keep in contact with him or her. I did and I could not be happier.

There is no doubt that even a single unscrupulous agent/rep for a given ISO/MSP can definitely create a bad perception for the processor as a whole and it sounds like part of the problems in this thread relate to such a rep.

I do know that there was a lot of litigation in recent years related to CSI and I believe that part of their policies regarding their termination & cancellation fees may have been adjusted as a result.

For any merchant signing up for a merchant account, it is definitely important to ask a lot of questions and make sure that you get answers in writing and that you understand the contract that you are signing.

Doing so can prevent a lot of problems and uncomfortable situations later down the road so some extra time investment upfront can pay you dividends far into the future.

Card service international ruined my life. I had an ebay business with a feed back score of 100% positive. after card service int I have no business and I am loosing my home. I have already lost my car. they are a big rip off. a big corprate giant beating up on little people. in short card service put me out of business. and I have been in business for over 20 years. Thanks to card service int. now I am flat broke. I owe ebay 30,000.00 and card service dont give a dahm. they are looking for there next sucker to cheat and run out of business. they told me even if I ship my bikes to my customers I would not get paid. wow what a night mare on the internet. and Now after running me out of business they have the nerve to try to sue me. I told them that they owe me 100 million dollars and if they refuse to settle i want 200million dollars

There lawyer are scared to talk to me. I talk crazy . and demand my 100million dollars. I want My Money from card service int.

Card service international ruined my life. I had an ebay business with a feed back score of 100% positive. after card service int I have no business and I am loosing my home. I have already lost my car. they are a big rip off. a big corprate giant beating up on little people. in short card service put me out of business. and I have been in business for over 20 years. Thanks to card service int. now I am flat broke. I owe ebay 30,000.00 and card service dont give a dahm. they are looking for there next sucker to cheat and run out of business. they told me even if I ship my bikes to my customers I would not get paid. wow what a night mare on the internet. and Now after running me out of business they have the nerve to try to sue me. I told them that they owe me 100 million dollars and if they refuse to settle i want 200million dollars

How about a little detail? How, exactly, did they ruin your life? You throw around a lot of unsubstantiated claims that are meant to make them look bad, and maybe you've every right, but what you've posted really isn't informative at all.

By the way, I'm not a fan of that company by any means. I'd just appreciate a little information with your rant, please. ;)

--Tina

I xcaint believe it has been over 2 years since this thread was mad. and they have not gotten better they have gotten worse. I wish I had saw this before I sign up with them Dahm. I could have went anther way. I almost killed my self after my ordeal with card service int

I started on ebay in Jan 2007 . with a 0 feed back score. I was useing my credit card processor from my land based store. they informed me That they did not do internet trans actions. so they refunded all my customers in a timely manner. so that they would not destroy my business. so I sign up with card service int. and My business was Booming. people would buy bike all night long. I had 29,000.00 in sales in there system. I needed to Change My bank account. I had to send in a photo ID when They saw That I was Black that when The **** Hit the fan. they held every dime would not refund my customers and would not release the funds to me so that I could ship the Bikes. (Motorcycles) Afeter they held the Money for a month are better My customers Thought I had taken The money and put it in my pocket. all my customers started calling me a thief on ebay saying I took there money and would Not ship the Bikes. 100% positive has now been turned into a 100%negative. I have been in busines for my self for over 20 years I have never had a job. I closed my retail store to sale My products from home and spend more time with my family. After They killed my ebay business I took My product to a company called I sold it on eabay and they had to sell my products on ebay. over five hundred thousand dollars worth of product. and I got ripped there. I had spent all my money building My web based business. and paying my house rent. Soon as it was time to hit pay dirt. Caed service snatched the rug right off from under me. Now I am looosing my home I have already lost My car, My food stamps are running out. and My well fare check is not big enough. I am 44 years old every Thing is gone. They had the right not to do business with me. But they did not have the right to make me look like a thief. and leave me with a 30,000.00 dollar ebay bill. That I could have paid if they had refunded my customers in a timly manner.Retail is my life and now I dont Have my Life.I have to make do with what I got till I can get A job. But God Is able I am waitng for My 100million dollar check for the damage that they have brought in my life.

I hope That helps you

wow you ask for more detail then you erase it. man what's going on?????????????????????????. Are you here to clean up there mess. card service international is a tramp company. and it is time for them to fall