Even if I have my own name servers, is there any other way that my clients can find out that I'm a reseller?

Dun think so.

Not in any particular way just based on nameservers. For instance, if you resell for an Alabanza-based host and have your own nameservers, traceroutes and lookups on the IPs assigned to your nameservers will point back to Alabanza, not to your host. People might ask a few questions if they see that your design and pricing is terribly similar to another host's, but of course they'd have to go through a lot of hosts' pages and make notes of what they've seen.

Yep. There is.... Plenty...

But 99.99% won't be able to tell. Some will do whois record (looking for tech contact, easily change), telnet to server to see server name and look at nameserver records....

The very careful people will do several checks and there is no way of hiding the facts from these people....

I agree with SysAdmin.

And I am one of those people that telnets to the mail server.

John

The telnet trick does not always work. Alabanza's servers, by default, do not allow telnet. Only SSH which needs to be setup in advance. Additionally, a host can remove the servername from the prompt anyway. There is also the ftp login, but that can be edited to remove the server name as well. If you use the host SMTP, the servername will still show in the headers though.

There is still always some way that the very careful will find out though.

I can see what Annette meant, but as someone who prods quite a bit (not in a bad way, I mean researches hosts), I would think she would have said yes. Maybe just nameservers alone wouldn't get you the info, but traceroutes, IP lookups, etc., surely could lead you toward the host.

Would it be accurate? Well, yes and no. It isn't always easy to tell from taceroutes, IP lookups, etc., and the person might be leasing/colo'ing a dedicated server. You can look up my nameservers and that alone won't tell you much. If you look up the IP address associated with those nameservers however, you will see that they are registered to tera-byte, which is where my server is located. Annette described a similar case with Alabanza servers.

While we could take "just the nameservers" as the question, I think you were asking if it would be possible to tell if you are reselling. The answer to that question, is very likely if you know how to do some easy research, and nope if your potential customer doesn't know how to do research. For every one person who knows to check, there are 50 more that don't. Maybe more, maybe less, I really don't know.

The original question revolved more around nameservers than anything else. Do you really think that 99% of the people out there, who do a cursory lookup on nameservers and the IPs associated with them are going to dig any deeper? No. Most people don't have the foggiest idea about how to begin tracking down that information or the technical know-how to do it even if they do have an idea about how such information would be gathered.

Looking at the WHOIS means squat - we keep some domain records in our name at the request of clients. Technical contact? So what? So it didn't get changed - big deal, and easily explained particularly if the registrar is NetSol.

I suppose this is my fault for (once again) not offering up the absolute, most vanilla explanation that would be clear to anyone on first reading.

To the original question: YES. People can and sometimes do track down the host for whom someone is reselling. YES. It is possible. Do most people do it? Can they? NO.

Originally posted by CFoxHost
There is also the ftp login, but that can be edited to remove the server name as well.

CFox... that was an enlightening reply you posted here. Thanks. Would you please throw a little more light how the FTP login can be edited to remove the server name? It would really help.

Learner

You can do the same thing for FTP as telnet/SSH. There is what amounts to a header file displayed when someone logs in. Most people refer to it as simply "message of the day" (and in fact, for many programs, the motd file is what contains the message seen when logging on via telnet/SSH), since that phrase has been used for many years - way back in time when command line was all there was. :)

For telnet/SSH, the motd is usually in /etc. For FTP, the file that displays the message varies depending on what FTP daemon is running.

The above responses are correct about one thing... Most people won't know or care beyond a whois check (if they even go that far). If they DO know how to dig up that sort of information that they're likely to also know that being a reseller doesn't mean poor service (necessarily).

No matter what a potential host is tech wise, I think if you offer the sort of service they want (tech support, friendly prompt responses), and have done your own research enough to provide a fast, quality server then that will do more most people.

Essentially from going through this forum there's a finite amount of places you should consider having hosting space. and they can either rent under a reseller, become a reller themselves, or get their own box, on those finite providers. Anywhere else and they'll begin to suffer poor speed and downtime.

Greg Moore
http://www.akashik.net

Annette, I am sure most of us find your replies and explanations often "absolute and plain vanilla" to comprehend!

Thanks for your prompt and extremely clearcut reply to my question above.

I would now like to call everybody's attention to something interesting I saw a few minutes ago at http://BLUEHILL.com/servers/prices.htm

On this page, somewhere in the middle, they have two sections with a whole lot of prices. (I don't know whether this information will be actually helpful to hosting companies.)

Section 1 = Virtual Name Server Aliases

What is a Virtual Name Server ALIAS exactly?

and

Section 2 = Virtual Name Servers (a whole lot of them designated with what appears to be different packages with differing prices.

What could the numbers in the first left-most column possibly indicate? Do they indicate the limited number of I.P. addresses these name servers resolve... or?

Learner

[Edited by Learner on 09-10-2000 at 09:02 PM]

Well, Vitual Name Server Alias I guess is a virtual name server for your domain name. So you can have ns1.yourdomain.com and ns2.yourdomain.com


A word of advice, I would associate with this company simply because of one word, "Unlimited" ;)

Learner, besides the MOTD files that Annette mentioned, there is also the command line prompt that states the server name. This is determined (usually) by /etc/bashrc. You can remove the "@\h " (ignore the qoutes, and note the trailing space).

Keep in mind, as has already been said, if someone has the knowledge, they will find out. If they don't know how to find out, they will ask someone who does know how.

Honesty is always the best policy :)

Thanks CFox, for adding to Annette's post above.

Yes... just like you, I also do sincerely believe that Honesty IS the Best Policy.

In fact, Honesty IS the Bestest Policy.

However, I wouldn't term withholding information regarding the source of your services (in this case) as being "dishonest". Because in business, the conventional wisdom is... one just has to withhold the information of one's supplier of services or goods to prevent his client's from approaching his supplier directly. :)

Learner

[Edited by Learner on 09-11-2000 at 07:14 AM]

I agree, to a point. I personally feel that a reseller should not claim to own the NOC, for instance :)

As a reseller myself in the past, I explained to customers that I did not personally have the server, but that it was outsourced. Since I had multiple accounts I was able to get them a better deal, I gave more personal support, and whenever problems would come up that I would deal with the provider myself (saving my customer the hassle). Being a reseller is not neccesarily a bad thing, I suggest full honesty and stressing the value you add instead of trying to be something that you aren't.

Of course that doesn't mean you need to offer the information of who the provider is, and the provider should take reasonable steps to make it a little more difficult to be tracked down. Personally, I was never asked who the provider was, if I had been directly asked then I probably would have told.

Originally posted by CFoxHost
I personally feel that a reseller should not claim to own the NOC :)

Of course!!! That would be really dishonest!!!

CFox, could you remember offhand some sites who actually try to portray that they "OWN" the NOC?

:D It would be interesting to see how they attempt to "word" such portrayals!!!

One thing I had learnt a long time ago...

You can fool some people all the time, you can fool all the people some time, but you JUST CANNOT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

I kinda doubt any of these resellers are very successful in what they do... or are they ???!!!!

I'd like to visit some of these resellers' sites to find out if HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY or if DISHONESTY IS THE SECOND-BEST POLICY :D

Learner

[Edited by Learner on 09-11-2000 at 01:09 PM]

Originally posted by Learner
...Because in business, the conventional wisdom is... one just has to withhold the information of one's supplier of services or goods to prevent his client's from approaching his supplier directly. :)...

Not always... ;)

I may already *know* who supplies carbs to my local Ford dealer that fit my 'Stang, but the supplier won't deal with me directly. I don't have enough volume/the minimum order is too high/they only sell to authorized Ford dealers, etc.

See?

As a reseller I'm making it possible for each of my clients to benefit from "group" pricing on an individual basis. If they go directly to my "supplier", not only will they pay more per month, but they will have to wade through several confusing screens, pay by credit card only, and they will likely still have to find someone to maintain the site.

Most of 'em don't care to know -- but if they ask I always tell them.

Just two more little pennies floating around the web... ;)

Hello,

I have seen many reseller plan which offer Personal Name Server for their reseller. Can I do the following:

1) Can I say that this kind of personal name server is also called Virtual Name Server?

2) As I got my own name server (e.g. ns1.myname.com) can I:

2.1) update my domain record's (www.myname.com) name server section to "ns1.myname.com and ns2.myname.com"?

2.2) Since this kind of name server is not real (am I right?). Am I need to registrate my name server (i.e. ns1.myname.com) in network solution. If not, how it works?

Thanks and Regards,
Ray

<< The GODS who are always watching with a keen eye here... please correct me if I am wrong... >>

Originally posted by rayzine
Can I say that this kind of personal name server is also called Virtual Name Server?

Sure you can, Rayzine... because they function as Virtual Name Servers, even though they are your Personal Name Servers.

As I got my own name server (e.g. ns1.myname.com) can I update my domain record's (www.myname.com) name server section to "ns1.myname.com and ns2.myname.com"?

Yes, you can do exactly that via your resellers control panel. Every time you resell a domain, you just click on the Name Server button in your Control Panel. It will take you to a page where you can input your resold Domain Name. Your personal name server will then resolve your resold domain name to an I.P. address on the name server of your hosting company.

Since this kind of name server is not real (am I right?).

Umm... I will leave that to the GODS to clarify properly.

Am I need to registrate my name server (i.e. ns1.myname.com) in network solution?

Not necessarily only at NetSol. You could do it at your own registrar's website if they allow you to do so. For example, I do it at Register.com

Whether it is NetSol or Register.com or any other domain registrar, you WILL have to change the DNS (Domain Name Server) information to your Personal/Virtual Name Server at your registrar's site. The effect of this change will not be noticed immediately, because it takes anywhere between 24 to 48 hours to resolve around the internet... sometimes even longer.

After you change the DNS information for your resold domain at NetSol or the registrar's website, the next step for you is to open your own control panel and (as i explained above) add the DNS of your Personal Name Server to this resold domain via your Control Panel.

Rayzine, if you have any problems or doubts regarding this, feel free to email me. I will do my best to help you out by replying to you as soon as I can. I know these things can be very confusing when you attempt to do it for the first time.

I did this for the first time two weeks ago and I was extremely confused. My hosting company offered to do it for me, but I wanted to do it all my myself nevertheless :) Anyways, I had got extremely confused while doing so!!!

Due to the difference in time zones, my hosting company wasn't around to give me support then. But I was extremely fortunate to have Chicken helping me out all the while. He took the trouble to remain online in this forum as I was trying to make sense how I should go about all this. Then later Annette and the others helped in removing most of my doubts on this front.

After a few days, I had to repeat doing this again for my first resold domain. It was like a "breeze". It had no confusion whatsoever, thanks to the assistance and knowledge I got from this forum in the meantime.

I guess the first time is always seems like a "mountain" in dealing with such techy issues. The second time seems like a "hill"... you still may have a couple of doubts. The third time it seems like a "breeze"... as if you are lying down on your back on the lush green grass of the "windy valley" feeling very relaxed and tension-free about all this :)

Learner

[Edited by Learner on 09-12-2000 at 08:30 PM]

Originally posted by rayzine

2.2) Since this kind of name server is not real (am I right?). Am I need to registrate my name server (i.e. ns1.myname.com) in network solution. If not, how it works?


Well you are right to a certain point... it is not YOUR DNS server, but that's about it. Mainly it will not resolve to your name (even though they could offer dedicated IPs on a dns if they wanted), the virtual or personal name server will act the exact smae way as any other DNS. you will need to set 2 name servers with your registrar, network solutions, 000domains.com or whoever else you used.

Regarding the speed or reliability... it is the exact same as if it were under your host's name. It is the same server, same speed, same everything... but under a different name, you can call it an alias.

I hope thhis was clear :)

Originally posted by Félix C.Courtemanche
It is the same server, same speed, same everything... but under a different name, you can call it an alias.

Thanks Felix, for your answer. But I would like to re-clarify to remove this little doubt...

When you said "same server"... did you mean "same type of server" but "two physically different servers"???

What I'm asking is... is the host's DNS server and the Personal Name Server hosts offer to their resellers on the very same machine?

Learner

Learner, it is actually same server. When you get aliased nameservers, they are just that- aliased to your host's nameservers. It is along the same lines (in a distant way), as having a domain aliased to another domain. There aren't two accounts, on two different servers. It is just that both names work and go to the same place (basically, do the same thing).

A little edit/side note. Generally (not always, but generally), the two nameservers are two machines (hence the "s" in nameservers. So to clarify, your nameservers are aliasing the two machines. One ns1.aliasednameservername.com for one nameserver, and ns2.aliasednameservername.com for the other. I think you get the point...

[Edited by Chicken on 09-12-2000 at 11:08 PM]

Thanks Chicken!!!

Learner

Thanks Learner and Chicken help! Thanks again!!! :)

Regards,
Ray

Just to put in my two cents. If you're a reseller you shouldn't have to worry about what people might think as long as you're confident that you'll provide good service. If someone really wants to find out whether you're a reseller or not they will find out. If asked just tell the truth. If they don't like your service they can go elsewhere. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to being a reseller. As a reseller you may have less clients as a big provider so your support SHOULD be better because you can personalize your company relationship with your clients. Big isn't always better.

So in short just be honest and you will have nothing to worry about. Just work on providing the best customer service that you possibly can.

I need a virtual DNS server where I can add my domains whiich I am reselling.

I need it. Because :
- If you are working as a reseller, if you have any problem with a hosting company you can easly switch your company. (I have terrible experiences)
- You can manage subdomains for all your domains.
- You can manage MX records, CNAME's etc. as you want.
etc. etc.

I need a affordable virtual hosting services where there is no prices per domain.

Thnx !

I think you should re-post it as a new Thread. You would get more responses.

Since these name servers are somewhat fake (right?) I'm asking myself if they'd be accepted by all domain name registars.

For instance the NIC of my ccTLD queries the name servers and only lets me activate the domain if the name servers satisfy their minimum standard which is as follows:

--QUOTE--
Each of the nameservers has to be configured properly for the domain name concerned. The nameserver test expects the following configuration:

a SOA (start of authority) resource record of the domain name concerned,

at least two NS (nameserver) resource records for the domain name concerned.

CNAMEs for nameservers or domain names are not allowed (see also RFC 1912 "Common DNS Operational and Configuration Errors").

If the nameserver name contains the domain name to be activated, at least one A (address) resource record for the nameserver is also required. This record has do be identical to the IP address found in that nameserver's database entries.
--END QUOTE--

Do the name servers as discussed in this thread use CNames for name servers?

Hello
There will be no problem provided they are set up properly.

They don't use Cnames, they have two dedicated IP adresses that route to the records on your hosts name servers.

Having said that, Its not really necessary to have them.


If you decide you want third party DNS you can buy it in from Zoneedit.com but they charge about $3 per year per domain with a $400 set up charge for personal name servers.

Gordon