Aloha

well thought this would happen but figured worth a shot
I picked up a expired domain
www.oceaniccable.com

there is a company here in Hawaii called oceanic cable they go by oceanic
they are a division of AOL time warner
they provide road runner service and cabletv service

well the idiots never bought up oceaniccable so I called them asked them if they wanted to buy it as I am getting a lot of traffic on it and they said no
we will have our legal dept handle this if we need it
they guy on the phone said I was cyber squatting and that was illegal
he said come on you can tell me you bought it just to sell to us
I said no but you can think what you want I got it cause it is a good name
(they have no trademark with oceanic cable at all)
if they could have legaly gotten it they would have is my theory
I told them I am gettin around 70 unique visitors a day on it that is why I called them
anyway he said well I am going to let our legal dept handle this there is a trademark infringment here
I said I did a pto search and you do not have any pto with oceanic cable just oceanic.
anyway I have no intention of offering like services
he then tried to say that well if we want to buy it we will let you know but it is still illegal and our lawyers will contact you.

so will be interesting to see what happens ;)

whheee the fun begins

Good luck,

I hope you are successful in keeping this domain name.

make it a porn site!

I say that you wait until you get a letter before you let go of it. Make them work because of their lack of technical prowess.

Once you get a letter, I'd chat with any lawyers you knew and talk about cutting them in on a deal if they can help you $ettle out of court.

Dan

First IANAL :confused: , but you really screwed up when you called them and then offering to sell it to them. There is precedence in U.S. Courts about these practices. You can't claim first use, you can't claim that it even has to do with your business, and in the stretch of the imagination if you tried it would be very close to what they do. Trademark infringement is very tough law, you can get toasted on this, they have a very good case and you made it stronger by contacting them and offering to sell it.

I wish you luck, but you better get a good lawyer, because now that they know you are out there, they *HAVE* to go after you, that is part of keeping your trademark. They have no choice or they can loose their trademark on Oceanic.

Best of luck:)

I'd be careful, since they have Oceanic as a registered trademark they could still win a case for OceanicCable.com in court.

Unfortinuately everybodys right...

Cybersquatting in short is buying domains with the intent to sell or extort money from the company who owns that trademark.

Since you called them asking if they wanted to buy it you just gave them all the intent in the world... If it ever did go to court you gave them a pretty strong case... and about the only out of court settlement you'd be able to strike up would be to probabbly give them the domain and they walk away.... unless you just want to make a fight of it but they probabbly have a lot more $ than you do.........

I could be wrong since i'm no lawyer but If i were you i'd be calling one up........ espically if they are a division of AOL....

Hmmm If it goes to trail make sure it makes the news and place a banner to your other sites on it... atleast make something out of it.




This made me think... Say you are a web host and you get a letter in the mail from a lawyer telling you that your customer did what this guy did and that if you didnt terminate his account they would sue you too. What would you do? Wait for a court order or dump the customer?

Aloha

yeah this is a tough one

on the note of contacting them
yeah maybe but ya never know
I will def settle out of court
I called them to ask as I was getting a lot of direct traffic that was my premise for calling I allready had a site up on it so we shall see
so yes it could have been a mistake but they would have checked it soon enough as it is the guy told me that they are fighting a domain that is at hawaiiroadrunner.com that they are trying to take away because of roadrunner service they offer
just like amazon laying claim to oneclick check out etc...
things like this make the small guy smaller and the big guy bigger
if they get this kind of case then what stops them form trying to get anything with oceanicXXXXXX

someone told me a story about a guy who has a site
that has MCHawaii something
and mcdonlads is trying to fight him for it since the Mc is there trademark or part of it
the guy on the phone also was trying to say that this is like me trying to have a motor company name that it is illegal
I said well know not actually take a look at nissan
if my name is Ford and I had that first it would be tough luck for ford motor company

a company here on Maui may be looking at it to buy
it is a 50/50 shot of me keeping it I know

My brother is an lawyer he works for the state deciding what cases are of legal substance so if they fire of a letter I will forward it to him to handle

again even if I loose it will only be a bit around $20
I am not going to be stupid and try to fight to hard but will dig my heels in
I am debating about starting a trademark for oceaniccable as one word to do with networking computers desing and hosting a 035 theres is a 038 so that would make me a seperate type of business
there are some laws that if I am not trying to impersonate or trick people into a company that does like business
also I am tired of companies making claims to such a wide spread of names

thanks for those that wish me luck I am going to need it here ;)
hehehhehehe

also thought some of the cybersquatting laws laid claim that if a site was not in use
anyway I am not selling ti to them anyway and am just going to hold onto it as it is a good domain name and traffic is good form it

Calling them was definately a bad idea, that and the fact that it is their company name pretty much makes it Cybersquatting.

I had a similar situation occur before where I purchased a domain simply for personal use, art gallery, etc. I recieved the dreaded letter from a law firm to cease all use of the domain and to turn it over at once to the company. I researched all I could find on the subject and since I had not in anyway tried to sell, compete or deface the company name, I did not have to oblige to the demand. I replied back with a letter stating my personal use of the domain, how I was unaware of any trademark infringement and that I had no intention of turning it over to them. This was then turned over to the Marketing department and it ended peacefully. You'll most likely recieve the Cease and Desist letter. Since you tried to sell the domain to them and it's really not a name that may very well be claimed was registered for personal use, your best bet would be to simply turn it over to them. On the other hand, they may just not bother with it at all.

Originally posted by venomx
make it a porn site!

You've hit the nail on the head :D. Anyways, if it goes to court, i am very sorry to say but you will lose the rights on the domain name. :(

This site is not Oceanic (the TVcable & Road runner service company)
This is great. I see you have plenty to advertise now. I say give them a run for their money. Those poor lawyers have to do SOMETHING to feed their poor kids.

All wrong answers?

Actually, the only places in the world that can force a change is ICANN and WIPO. They can ignore any court's ruling to change the owner of a domain and require that you go thru their own courts. It is relatively cheap and only cost $1-$3 grand (last I checked) depending if you want 1 or 3 arbitrators(judges). The decision these arbitrators make is final and no court can undo the decision since no single court(even the Supreme one) can claim jurisdiction over the www(at this time) except the WIPO courts.

If I were you, if they decide to take legal action, then I would take it to WIPO arbitration before oceanic could do anything in the normal courts. Whether you win or lose, no other court would try to go against the ruling. If you win, you would automatically win in any other court, and be able to recoupe all financial damages it caused you.

There are actually three that control it all, ICANN-WIPO- and some other I cant remember. WIPO makes the decision while ICANN enforces the decision by making the proper registrar make the needed changes if any.

Since you called them to sell it, you're really going to end up giving it up.

Only way you might not have to was if you made it a site to help kids in need (charity) or something like that, and think of a name to fill in the ic as abbrevations. That's the only way I could think of that would get the court even consider to let you keep the domain.

Aloha

well I had put up the redirect to show that I had no ill intent or trickery
I even told them that to avoid confusion I would display a link as not to confuse anybody looking for there site
I hate this myself
granted me asking em to buy it may have been a mistake
my point is it is a good name that is why I got it the fact that it is getting a good amount of traffic I figured maybe I could sell it ??
I have read Ivan Hoffmans site start to finish
it seems I am in a so so position
actually I cna not find any trademark on oceanic or oceanic cable but that does not meen it is not a said trademark as common usage
the fact they are part of AOL and Time warner is a bit scary ;)
but agian the redirect showing no trickery or ill intent may or may not help
any thoughts on this from people ???
I am hoping they just think OK we are getting our traffic anyway

ahhhh
should be a long weekend waiting for Monday
hehehehe
I am going diving tomorow ;)
go out to Molokini get away form all this (I work on a boat one day a week diving)
anyway again Mahalos for all the input on this
and good to read others opinions

I just hope they do not try to make a point out of me
ya hear about that stuff every once in a while
I can see some guy
lets just rip him to the bone
but I guess I can always just say here ya go

GULP

another thought
wonder what happens if someone else buys it first ???
before they can act on it ????
maybe a question for my bro
thought there was a lawyer around here ????

that was my other thought I guess if I sell it before I would think I am OK
any thoughts on this

my other thought is if they really could have had it legaly why did they not have it allready ????

AOL Division?

I wouldn't mess with those guys, sounds like they are quite big, is the domain worth it?



Cheers!

What you could do is trademark the domain name since they only have oceanic trademarked, not the entire domain name. Design a logo and put it up and put the TM logo next to it. That indicates that you are in the process of trademarking it, and in fact, you never really have to. With all of this electronic media, once something is saved on a computer it is considered trademarked, so that might help your case.

Originally posted by Fred
What you could do is trademark the domain name since they only have oceanic trademarked, not the entire domain name.Anything's possible, but it'd be unlikely that such a trademark request would be upheld. If they have trademarked Oceanic, and actively use the name Oceanic Cable, and they are in the cable business, and especially if they were to contest the trademark registration, you'd have a hard time winning it. And, of course, you're at least spending a few hundred dollars to do so, so what's the point?

Sorry, Chad, but in spite of the appeal of the idea of sticking it to a large company I think you're in the wrong here. To say you registered it because "it's a good name" is disingenuous; it's only a good domain name because there's a cable company by that name already.

I think, under ICANN rules, you'd have a hard time establishing that you didn't register the name in "bad faith," at least by this description from the UDRP:

(iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location.

Now maybe you didn't have "commercial gain" as the motivator, but it'd be hard to make that argument stick. And then, of course, there is:

(i) circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark...


I guess the point to me is if someone similarly registered a domain name that's a variant of one of the names of services my company sells, under similar circumstances, I'd think they were in the wrong -- wouldn't you? For example, I notice that HAPPYFISHWEBDESIGN.COM is still available... :)

Aloha

well I am not trying to confuse though ;)
if you are trying to confuse usually that is sites that look similiar or sell a similiar product to decieve etc...

but the fact they are aol time warner I am going to loose most likely
anybody want to buy a domain name good traffic ???
hehhehehehehehehehehe

Originally posted by Honu
well I am not trying to confuse though ;)
if you are trying to confuse usually that is sites that look similiar or sell a similiar product to decieve etc...
Nope, in the context of domain disputes it's referring to confusion caused by similar domain names. Someone looking for the cable company arrives at your site instead, allegedly because of deceptive use of their company name in your domain name.

I have been involved in a trademark dispute before. Because your domain is OceanicCable.com only the fact that Oceanic is part of it means that you stand very little chance. If Oceanic is trademarked means that almost any combination of terms/phrases would be off limites. That would be like someone registering a domain JanesAmazonBidSite.com or FirestoneofWisconsin.com, etc...

The fact that you have "cable" in the domain means you probably stand no chance because if they were a pet grooming shop you probably wouldn't have a problem, but they are a cable company.

That indicates that you are in the process of trademarking it, and
in fact, you never really have to. With all of this electronic media, once something is saved on a computer it is considered
trademarked, so that might help your case.

I think you mean copyright not trademarked. I do not think electronic material is trademarked just because it is on a computer, but I am pretty sure it is upheld by US copyright laws. Unsure about International copyright law.

Patrick

Originally posted by Precise
I think you mean copyright not trademarked. I do not think electronic material is trademarked just because it is on a computerI missed that in the post you quoted, but I think you're right about the confusion. But trademark rights do arise from actual use of a mark, even without registration. In this case, though, that's in the cable company's favor: while they may have registered only "Oceanic" as a trademark, they have established prior use of the term "Oceanic Cable."

I was just clarifying the post by Fred. But yes, since they have trademarked Oceanic almost any combo of Oceanic used in a domain would be off limits because of trademark law.

Patrick

Well, that depends on the industry. For example, if I have a company called McDonalds Plumbing and I get McDonaldsPlumbing.com, then the fast food chain stands no chance of ever taking that domain from me. Trademarks and Copyrights are limited by listed industry. McDonalds holds the trademark in the food industry, not plumbing. Hence, they have no legal rights to McDonaldsPlumbing.com. However, if they were to register that domain, I could very well go after them.

Mind you, the bigger you are the easier it is to take you to court. 99% of the time, large companies like AOL avoid legal issues at all cost. I seriously doubt they would ever condone any of their subsidaries to pursue legal issues over such a thing as this minor detail. They pay a few buck to an attorney to send a cease and desist letter, have those attorneys make a few contacts to you. Other than that, it's 99% bluffing. AOL has much bigger issues than to waste money for a legal dispute over a questionable domain name. Now if you had Oceanic.com, that would be different.. However, the word "cable" is a generic word and cannot be trademarked. That makes the domain a questionable one.

Anyone who's ever been in a legal battle knows it's not just money lost, it's time and resources also...which often exceed the monetary issues and cost the company even more. This is why they try to avoid legal issues and settle out of court the majority of the time. You have nothing to worry about..

what do you have at that site? is it anything or a pointer? What is the site called? How does owning the domain benefit the site? You will have to make a case as to why you should keep it.

i doubt you will be able to keep it though

If this is not a registered trademark, why not register it and THEN sell the TRADEMARK?

Regestering this however, would cost you I'd say $2000-$6000... You should research, there is an institution in Luxembourgh (Europe) that does that

Aloha

well again thanks all
well my thought is still I am not going to fight against aol timewarner as that would be stupid it would be like pissing off Mike Tyson (spelling ??)
so if they want it they will get it life is to short I am not into fighting
had a killer dive today saw 2 grey sharks a lot of turtles and some eels ahhh a great day
but will keep all posted

any thought on if I sell it to someone else do you think they could do anything since I had it
and I sell it to another comapny ??
another big company here has showed interest they are a huge media company ??
would it be out of my hands and on there hands ??
I would think if I sell it do not own it I am out of the loop but ya never know ??

if you sell it now before it gets to court they can not do anything against you

Originally posted by multipleimage
if you sell it now before it gets to court they can not do anything against you

Aloha
yeah thought so
man hope it never gets to court :cartman:

can ya tell I am a little bit paranoid
hehhehehehee

again Mahalos to all those who have been answering me

Well I think it will cost AOL more than $30 to do all the legal stuff :)

Every bit helps!

Well done mate.

Originally posted by Webdude
McDonalds holds the trademark in the food industry, not plumbing. Hence, they have no legal rights to McDonaldsPlumbing.com. However, if they were to register that domain, I could very well go after [b]them.That analogy doesn't hold up, though, because McDonald's the fast food giant has not established prior use of the phrase "McDonald's Plumbing." But Oceanic the cable company does call themselves "Oceanic Cable." Prior use can establish trademark ownership even without registration.

You're certainly right about the industry being important, though. In fact, the standalone word "Oceanic" is trademarked by several different organizations for various uses.

However, the word "cable" is a generic word and cannot be trademarked. That makes the domain a questionable one.Many phrases including the word cable, though, are trademarked. "Oceanic Cable" could be, just as are "US Cable" and "jumper cable," among others.

So in theory he (or anyone) might be able to trademark the term "oceaniccable.com" (and that opens another proverbial can of worms; the trademark of a domain name -- which can only be done if that's the actual business name), or even "Oceanic Cable." But to trademark it someone would have to demonstrate that they're actually using it for some kind of commerce. And the company, which has established prior use of the term, might dispute it. And it might get expensive.

Anyone who's ever been in a legal battle knows it's not just money lost, it's time and resources also...which often exceed the monetary issues and cost the company even more. This is why they try to avoid legal issues and settle out of court the majority of the time. You have nothing to worry about.. Yeah, if I were Chad I wouldn't be losing any sleep over this. There's no reason to worry about civil liability, and there've been no damages of any kind. What'd be likely to happen, if anything, would be arbitration under ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy. The question at hand is whether he has a right to use the domain name (or to withhold it from the company that uses the business name). Trademark rights are one of the elements that come into play under those rules, but not the only one.

Aloha
wellI lost a few hours last night ;)
thanks JayC always value your words ;)
as others to ;)
I figure just because of who they are that would be a bad fight
if I am askedI will bow out graciously
I hope the way they see it is I am still pointing traffic to them and not having any malicous or defacing information up there so
in return I hope they just ask nicely can you please hand over the site
I will say sure ;)
I really hope I can get out of it before that happens ;)

I never intended it to get like this
the phone conversation I had when the exec called me back was not fun
he was trying to say you can tell me you are trying to blackmail me and hold us hostage
etc... very verbally agresive with me
and saying some harsh things
I really hate people like that big time
but this will become a great learning experience one college never prepared me for.