I am considering purchasing a server to co-locate at a datacenter to be used for gameserver hosting, I have the option to buy either a Xeon 2.4ghz or a AMD 2600+ system, Both are Dual CPU's as well,

The rest of the specs are the same, So which one would be best for what I will be using it for? Any pros or cons to either one?

I personally prefer AMD for gaming, but you really wouldn't be going wrong with either brand. Go for the best deal.

The Xeon is actually $100 cheaper but if the AMD is better then I don't mind spending the extra $100

The xeons come with HT, so u might want to think of that, might be benificial if you are planning to put a lot of servers on same machine (not good for CS server, from personal experience)

Get the Xeon's then and buy something nice for yourself with the money you saved :D

A dedicated server :)

Originally posted by Xenos
Get the Xeon's then and buy something nice for yourself with the money you saved :D

Actually the Xeons are $100 more..

Originally posted by X-Gaming
Actually the Xeons are $100 more..

oops! I misunderstood you then. Get the AMD's :D

If you are going to be doing game server hosting, you may want to look into getting a little bit beefier system. Like a quad Xeon, but a dual should do just fine. You will want to max out the ram if possible, and set it up with Linux as a VPS server.

The reason why:

If you set up a VPS server, you can actually sell Virtual Private Servers, where the clients will have their very own "Virtual" Linux server, and you can install any linux game server for them on their server. You can then limit the bandwidth, ram, and processes that that Virtual server gets.

This way, the clients can have Root access to their own VPS to administer their game server, but wont be able to access anyone elses game server, or the main system itself.

Otherwise, you will most likely just have to install and configure the servers yourself, and just give them Rcon access.

I plan on setting up a beefy VPS server in the near future to do some Game Server hosting myself.

Quad CPU's aren't possible just for the $$$ reasons.. Big, Big bucks... Don't need it anyway, I have muliple servers so i wouldn't be relying on just one,

Linux isn't an option either since most of the games i serve don't function correctly on Linux, Not to mention I prefer Windows anyway it's just easier for my support guys to administer,

Xeon's are that great for gaming. There was a thread about this. Search WHT.

I have a few dual xeons ... not as great as I thought they would be, but oh well.

Go for the dual AMD.

I think I am leaning towards the AMD's anyway, I have heard good things about them,

Thank you,

Whats the point in having dual CPU's then if you arent going to be running linux? Windows doesnt do load balancing last I heard, the programs themselves need to support it, and I highly doubt that dedicated game servers will support SMP (more than 1 cpu)

Then again, I may be wrong, I dont know if win2k3 server does load balancing.

What games are you hosting? The following work in linux:

Any Half-Life based game (Counterstrike, Natural Selection, etc)
Any Quake (1,2,3)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Medal Of Honor Allied Assault (and spearhead)
Battlefield 1942
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003

I'm sure there are more, these are just ones I can pull off the top of my head.

I would get intel because i wouldn't trust AMD(my opinion). Not too much people have amd i nthere p.c, labtops, serveres and etc. because intel is a bigger and older company. So i would go with intel because it more reliable and probably better. My old saying "the more expensive it is , the better":) Besides most companies that sell servers have intel

Globex, Lots of people use AMD, and yes I'd recommend using AMD in these circumstances, simply because AMD are better built for being games servers.
I'd also recommend maxing out your ram, pay a decent amount for a large server-grade motherboard (i.e. 6-8GB DDR).

Good Luck!

Do not sell game servers unless you have dual procs, period. As far as which one to get, you will get more bang for your buck. The largest, and many of the largest game server companies use AMD.

Game servers have VERY small profit margins so every dollar saved is a dollar earned. There has even been discussion on AMD giving a performance boost over Intel due to the way the FPU is in each set. Search the valve hlds mailing list archives for detailed info.

amish_geek, I normally run Linux myself, but I have a friend that uses Win2K Server and a utility that lets him set which cpu a certain process(es) will run on. I'm sure one of the experienced Win guys knows the name of it.

Originally posted by amish_geek
Whats the point in having dual CPU's then if you arent going to be running linux? Windows doesnt do load balancing last I heard, the programs themselves need to support it, and I highly doubt that dedicated game servers will support SMP (more than 1 cpu)

Then again, I may be wrong, I dont know if win2k3 server does load balancing.

What games are you hosting? The following work in linux:

Any Half-Life based game (Counterstrike, Natural Selection, etc)
Any Quake (1,2,3)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Medal Of Honor Allied Assault (and spearhead)
Battlefield 1942
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003

I'm sure there are more, these are just ones I can pull off the top of my head.

The Unreal series runs on Linux yes but not very well, Before i got into hosting i rented plenty of servers and could tell right away if it had linux as the OS, It just runs strange.... If you look at 90% of the companies that rent gameservers you will notice they are all running Windows, (I'm talking about the big companies) There has to be a reason for that... As far as Dual CPU's... I don't think i can name 1 company that doesn't run Duals on their gameservers....

Globex-

The reason you dont see AMD in the business field in servers is because Intel and Dell, HP/Compaq, IBM etc are all bed buddies... Intel has exclusive rights to be in those systems and servers.

AMD outperforms Intel in almost every test (Athlon XP/MP vs P4, xeons are excluded) and the only reason why I personally would avoid running AMD in my 1U servers is the Heat issue. AMD's tend to run a little hotter, but they get more done per clock cycle than Intel. Thus a 2.0ghz AXP 2400+ outperforms an Intel 2.4ghz P4.


If building a server for use with an AMD, I would Highly recommend a Tyan mainboard, they have some EXCELLENT AMD Server boards.

At any rate Amish.... I could argue with you all day but the fact is dedicated gameservers need dual cpu's to be effective no matter what OS you use, That is a fact, Windows can and does have the ability to run off of either CPU, I know this because I am running gameservers right this minute that way,

Originally posted by X-Gaming
The Unreal series runs on Linux yes but not very well, Before i got into hosting i rented plenty of servers and could tell right away if it had linux as the OS, It just runs strange.... If you look at 90% of the companies that rent gameservers you will notice they are all running Windows, (I'm talking about the big companies) There has to be a reason for that... As far as Dual CPU's... I don't think i can name 1 company that doesn't run Duals on their gameservers....

I do agree that most all game servers seem to run better on Windows then linux due to the fact thats the platform they are originally written for since that is what the consumers use. When I say run better I mean use less resources. Telling the difference ingame is impossible unless the company overloads thier servers.

Where you are completely wrong is about what most hosts use. Just as an example there are aprox. 28K HL and HL Mod servers onlike. About 18K are *nix and only about 10K are windows. This is because windows is free and the margins are already slim enough. Argueably the largest Game Host in the world (Game Deamon) runs off FreeBSD and not windows.

X-Gaming-

Like I said, I could be wrong, and in this case, I was. Last I heard you couldnt specify which cpu to run the individual programs on, and duals in windows were only good for using programs like photoshop and video editing.

What kind of issues have you had running UT servers on linux? I run all my dedicated game servers in linux for LAN Parties that I run.

Originally posted by amish_geek
Like I said, I could be wrong, and in this case, I was. Last I heard you couldnt specify which cpu to run the individual programs on, and duals in windows were only good for using programs like photoshop and video editing.

Trust me you can run and need to run duals for game servers with windows just like linux.

Originally posted by amish_geek
X-Gaming-

Like I said, I could be wrong, and in this case, I was. Last I heard you couldnt specify which cpu to run the individual programs on, and duals in windows were only good for using programs like photoshop and video editing.

What kind of issues have you had running UT servers on linux? I run all my dedicated game servers in linux for LAN Parties that I run.

The servers tend to lag, ping spikes, It's ahrd to say, I may have gotten a bad host or something but out of the 7 hosts i used over the last couple years only one ran Linux and that was the one server i had alot of problems with... Maybe badluck on my part but....

Running LAN servers and running internet servers are two way different things though, On a LAN you don't have any of the issues that people always complain about, It's night and day..

So what I'm hearing is AMD is the way to go?

I think that's the consensus.

Originally posted by amish_geek
Globex-

The reason you dont see AMD in the business field in servers is because Intel and Dell, HP/Compaq, IBM etc are all bed buddies... Intel has exclusive rights to be in those systems and servers.

AMD outperforms Intel in almost every test (Athlon XP/MP vs P4, xeons are excluded) and the only reason why I personally would avoid running AMD in my 1U servers is the Heat issue. AMD's tend to run a little hotter, but they get more done per clock cycle than Intel. Thus a 2.0ghz AXP 2400+ outperforms an Intel 2.4ghz P4.


If building a server for use with an AMD, I would Highly recommend a Tyan mainboard, they have some EXCELLENT AMD Server boards.

Wow I never knew that, thanks amish_geek for telling me this. I might now have to think more careful of which processor I should use. Looks like amd sounds the best in this thread so i guess i'll try them for once:D

Originally posted by Xenos
I think that's the consensus.

Thank you :)

Heh I put amd in my pc but my server which ttl host won't give back. Was a dual xeon p4 2.4ghz 533mhz fsb 40 gig hd with 8 mb buffer 8mb buffer is very important for gameservers. That and a ton of ram. Redhat Linux 9.0 was great for me.

Soldier of Fortune 2 also runs on Linux :)

I'm running one, believe it or not, on a Celeron. 24-32 players 24/7 it just uses 90% of the cpu 24/7. :stickout:

I would also recommend getting Dual CPUS and maxing out the ram....

Pixel, spend a few minutes getting acquanted with the shift key.... Proper puncuation will get you farther....

*shakes head* Does anyone actually read the topic before posting? I thought this thread was about AMD VS Xeon CPU's.... I am ALREADY getting Dual cpu's i just wanted input on which is better for gaming...

I'm not interested in if anyone can run 900 games from a linux server thats not the issue... But i commend you Darktides, 1 server on linux with 90%.... You should be proud..

That just goes to show you Linux sucks for gameservers...

No, it doesn't. It's better than Windows. I would assume, with that statement, you really don't know anything about CPU's =)

If you did, you would be quite baffled that a Celeron can hold that much; it has nothing to do with the OS, although, on Windows, it certainly would not be able to hold that many simply because the GUI in windows eats up too many resources.

Good day.

Or not X-Gaming.

Linux is very good for gaming.

The reason for that 90% usage is because its a CELERON.
and its running 24-32 players.

That is the reason for the 90% usage of the CPU, not because its running Linux. Hell, I dont even know if a windows server and celeron could hold that many people, behold the power of LINUX

Xeon CPUs are great for running game servers, I would never entrust hundreds of my game servers on the "stability" of windows and the need for restarts and the crash's it has.
No way, not if I actually wanted to KEEP my customers.

I dont know where you came from, or what kind of experience you have X-Gaming, but everything you've said so far contridicts anything that would be positive to running a game server business.


Hehe, Oops got beat by Darktides

BTW, to whoever said hyper threading is counter productive to game servers...

You are entirely wrong.

Hyperthreading has increased performance and ability to handle servers 2 fold in our experience.
Xeon servers are excellent for gaming servers, and if you PROPERLY configure your linux kernel you will have an awesome machine which will be able to host the same amount of servers an AMD can plus the fact that for other games based on the Q3 engine, Intel is better for them.
So if it can run, HLDS and Q3 engine games better than an AMD, why would you get an AMD?

A linux kernel is not ready for game hosting stock; before it is ready, it must be recompiled entirely taking out all excess running programs, and then optimizing it for the class of game servers you will be running.
Ex. small 12 privs mostly, or medium 12-18 pubs, or large, 20-32 player servers.
This will increase performance and ability to handle servers a lot more.

Windows will only bog down your machine, and even if you go and cut off the excess **** it has on install, it will still not be as high performance as a linux server.
And wont it be just lovely, when 30 game servers are down because your win32 box decided to take a crap for no reason.
Just leaving a box on without doing anything at all, except running windows and it still crashs!
Now that is a remarkable O/S.. a remarkbly trashy O/S in a server environment where uptime is key.


And contrary to what most everyone is saying in this thread, RAM is not that important... the biggest deal in a game server is the PROCESSCING POWER, meaning the CPU, 1gb of ram on a dual xeon 2.4ghz is plenty of RAM, if you're going to upgrade anything on a machine like that, it would be the CPUs.

And yes, 7200rpm 8mb cache drives are important as they reduce the load times of maps, etc; which in turn saves a little bit of processor usage.

sorry i overlooked the "celeron" statement,
As far as my experience.. In the hosting game i am pretty new but I have been an admin and renter of gameservers for a few years now and like to think i know a bit about whats going on, I have rented several servers from several different companies and have only once encountered the host running Linux as the OS... How can it be that most all the hosts i have been involved with all use windows? Apparently it can't be too bad... Companies like Ilan games use it? which are regarded as one of the bigger server companies in the US...

By the way Mr.Dredd I have seen you post on a few game related threads and you seem to have a fair bit of knowledge in this area, What company to you own/work for if I might ask?

So because ILAN does it, its a good thing?
Not only does it incur excess fee's for the licenses, it also has tons of downtimes.

I know A LOT of people with ILAN servers... there servers are down atleast once a week because of "O/S Issues".

I dont know why people dont leave them... its a mystery.
My close friends have ILAN servers, there damn MOHAA servers are down a lot... and they say it always happens.
Plus the fact that they LAG... I dont know if its because ILAN bogs down the machines, but from when I had root to a few, it didnt look like it, but, they were running windows, with a ton of exploits that wernt patched and CPU usage was high constantly.

I had even contact ILAN about their security flaws and offered to help them secure their boxes... but guess what? they ignored me...

You know how easy it is to gain access to an ILAN server machine?
Takes less than 5 minutes usually, maybe 10.
Then you have complete access to all their drives, and files. (EDIT: WITH execute permissions)
I havent tried their billing servers yet, but I know they're internet accessible from a T1 line in their offices in Boston.

ahahahah well that is true about Ilan... In fact a friend of mine just informed me recently that a UT server I had rented and cancelled 4 Months ago from Ilan is still up and running and apparently a favorite of the pubs crowd... Funny stuff really but that goes to show more about their support personel then the actually machines, What your saying may be right I don't know but if they don't know they have a rogue machine running for free for 4 months that speaks more to the quality of the "support" team they have over there....

I am also under the impression that they load each box up and the fact that half their machines are running on Dual XP2000 CPU's it;s no wonder you have lag.... But i can honestly say the machines i had with them ran pretty smooth and uptime was very good as well... Maybe just luck i don't know...

Yes, they do have a **** billing system,
I have had over 5 servers up(concurrently) after I stopped paying and cancelled back about a year ago.

They were up for MONTHS.

Now my friends with a clan have had their server up for about... 3-4 months so far after they cancelled because of the lag and downtime.
Dont know how much longer ILAN is going to be in business.

Yes, you are lucky that the other servers on the machine you were on were probably hardly used..

But as far as my personal server I host games on.. Uptime has been pretty much constant for the month i have had it, I know thats not alot of time but thats all i have.. With Windows you have to occasionally reboot the box yes but if you have a good relationship with your clients and schedule the reboots it's not a factor. Most customers wouldn't even know as long as you have all their commandline settings in place a reboot is invisable.....

But hey you said it yourself MrDredd, ONLY after reconfiguring your whole server will Linux run better... Linux isn't made for games it's very simple.. Until some of these gaming companies offer to compile engines exclusively for Linux you guys are going to have to keep tinkering with your settings.. I in the meantime will stick with tried and true windows.. (at least until i figure out how to login to a linux box... ;))

oh, and you're going to tell me straight out after install Windows is ready to host game servers in a business evironment?

It actually takes LONGER to prepare windows for use in a web based server environment.

You have tons of security measures you need to take, you have to cut services, you need to optimize settings.

So.. which would you rather do, spend time optimizing an O/S which wont run that well, or spend that optimizing an O/S thatll beat the other and run more servers?

Which is a better investment of time?


Sure windows, is better for people who dont know linux, but that is really one of the only reasons why.
There are other reasons but Linux for the most part, will still beat Windows.

You give lessons by any chance?

I freely admit I am a Linux noob but i still recognize the fact that alot of companies use Windows for their gameservers so my question would be why if Linux is that much better?

because they are like you.

yeah it looks like we agree on something, ;)

For shame Linux game servers are a lot easier than they appear at first glance.

hi pixel:

remember me?

yeah how's deviant servers going my business is dead in the water thanks to ttl.

I would go with AMD over Xeons if you're on a tight budget, but Xeons would be faster, or you can get Duel AMD Processors :)

My options are Dual AMD or Dual Xeon, Money isn't really that much of a concern I just want the best of the two regarding performance/ stability/ etc..

Go with the xeons and put a little bit more ram in it if youre not concerned about $$

Hey Dredd your site is down.... Those Linux boxes acting up? ;) Uptime? Sorry man i had to do it, Just a little jest to ease the tension,

what site?
im not hosting any site

but my windows crashed while it was just sitting there idling for a couple days

Hi,
we have a couple of those boxes:

Dual Athlon MP 2200+
1gb DDR ECC Ram
80gb 8mb buffer HD

They all host gameservers and run extremely fine. BTW, they have Linux.

I would take the AMDs.

Dual AMD's

Hypertheading is just that, HYPE..... Im a sheep I must follow.

Ram is not as important as everybody thinks. A Gig is most cases is way more than plenty.

Given the option SCSI drives is the way to go.... A cheap SCSI set-up costs about the same as IDE.... If you are building the system.

As far as the OS.... Run what you know. Linux is Sweet but if you dont know what the hell you are doing than it's not exactly useful.

And the myth that Linux Runs everything better is False. Some games run better on Windows and some run better on Linux. Windows does have some major Security Flaws.... but if you keep on top of it, its not a big deal.

Im running a few Win 2000 Pro game servers..... they are stable and I have yet to have one crash that wasnt do to a Hardware fault. Ive considered switching them to linux ONLY because of cost.

My 2 cents.


Hi dredd

Hi 2guns ;)

Also, with the speed of IDE drives in this day and age, SCSI drives arnt really needed unless your going to be using them for database apps+addons with the games.
Psychostats for example, but any real host wont run psychostats on the same machine as game servers.

Originally posted by Mrdredd
what site?
im not hosting any site

but my windows crashed while it was just sitting there idling for a couple days

deviantservers.com Thats you right?
I got a site not here error..

The configuration i am looking at is as follows:

Dual AMD 2600's
Tyan S2723GNN MB
3X512 MB PC2100 ECC
Maxtor 80gb 7.2k
Dual Lan 10/100/1000
1U chassis 300w PSU
Sound/vid onboard
The other configuration is the same but with the Dual 2,4ghz Xeon's

Originally posted by X-Gaming
deviantservers.com Thats you right?
I got a site not here error..

nope

You should perhaps take a look at some AMD Opteron Systems... Their prices will be along the lines of the Xeon System but IMO they are well worth it.

Originally posted by Netivex
You should perhaps take a look at some AMD Opteron Systems... Their prices will be along the lines of the Xeon System but IMO they are well worth it.

hmmm. Very interesting,

64bit processing yahhh baby

From experience I would look to the whole system rather then purely the processors alone. If your going for IDE over Scsi (with the advent of 10k IDE drives on reliability or the need for 15k sets scsi apart, that and the serious price tag) ensure that you have good airflow over the drive. Maybe consider the 10K IDE series but you will have better access the I to performance figures for a system to show where the bottlenecks lie.
Leaving aside the proposterously stupid comments regarding windows and dual cpu's, forucussing purely on Intel versus AMD its important to understand that of late Intel has quite frankly whored the Xeon name away. Xeons used to be chips that were a class apart, added cache and instruction sets, generally resulting in a performance gulf in server systems. These days its not massively different from the AMD XP \ MP situation where a Xeon is basically a multiprocessor P4 with a few extra bells and whistles, a quick look at the price difference compared to the old prices differences would show this. The Xeon is pretty much there to extract a price premium for people wanting dual processor systems, exactly the same as the MP from AMD is. However it may interest you that there are some new Xeons being released in the near ish future sporting increased levels of cache which may prove financially beneficial in your case.
From what I do know about gaming servers I would suggest that the main factor that would help me choose between two theoretically closely matched CPU setups would be how well 'fed' they are, the bandwidth to the ram, the hard drive and the chipsets.
Looking at the stats you provided I would take the Xeons because I trust Intel a little more with reliability, but if I were to take the AMD I would seriously consider switching to a 2u chassis that would take 80mm fans rather then 1u blowers, 7200 rpm drives and dual AMD's (and to be honest dual Intels) will run hot. It shouldnt cost a massive amount more in space rental maybe 20-30 a month but it should prolong the life of all of your components.
I'm sure there are people who will disagree with my comments, and to use a rather famous quote,' Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn'. I'm neither pro AMD or Intel, both are good in their own ways.
And to whoever mentioned about Windows and dual cpu's, thanks man I needed a good laugh.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,106605,00.asp
Link on the high cache Xeons, theyre expensive but they are value for money under the right circumstances, faster ram rather then an expensive cpu might be a better solution for you though, maybe upping to 3200 or similar?

X-gaming.....

A 300 Watt power supply cannot support a Dual AMD setup.

I am still digesting all the information..

2guns, it probably could remembering there is no massive graphcs card swallowing power and only a single hard drive.

Yes the GPU is an 8mb I believe,

Richy I was a bit concerned with the heat issue as well and unfortunatly the chassis for this setup can only be ordered in a 1U, I don't anticipate "loading up" the machine but I do expect the system will be working hard most of the day so would a Xeon make more sense in the long run for reliability?

Most 1u chassis are setup in a manner which basically pulls cold air over the hard drive, blowing warm air onto the cpu's and then hot air onto the ram, its just how theyre laid out. Whilst a 2u still has the same geopgraphics it has the advantages of a much increased airflow. Is the dual xeon an extra 100 a month or just an extra 100 one off? if its one off I wouldnt hessitate to take the dual xeons.

Just an extra $100 to purchase out right,

Then I would take the xeons for sure over the dual mp's. Its not a massive price premium in the long run. Just a real shame about the 1u cases, I mean I know some people put two servers in a 1u case but its tantamount to sticking your love spuds in a lions mouth and jumping on his wedding tackle. Hard drives these days run hot, quite hot, and so do processors, they need to be kept cool.
Good luck and best wishes.

Thanks for all the help Richy and everyone else!

X-Gaming- Where are you getting the chassis/systems from? Are they rentals from a datacenter, or are you purchasing them and co-locating?

The reason why I ask, is because if you are purchasing, you can always purchase a 2U chassis and put in a standard ATX server board into it, thus getting the increased airflow with the bigger fans.

I'm just trying to reason out why the only dual AMD or Xeon boxes you can get only come in 1U cases.

A 300 Watt power supply cannot support a Dual AMD setup.


Doing it. Have done so for over a year. Please do not make these claims unless you know WTF you are talking about...

Originally posted by amish_geek
X-Gaming- Where are you getting the chassis/systems from? Are they rentals from a datacenter, or are you purchasing them and co-locating?

The reason why I ask, is because if you are purchasing, you can always purchase a 2U chassis and put in a standard ATX server board into it, thus getting the increased airflow with the bigger fans.

I'm just trying to reason out why the only dual AMD or Xeon boxes you can get only come in 1U cases.

I am purchasing the machines outright and co-locating them, currently the servers only come in 1U racks at this particular company, I could go other places but the prices here are very good,

have you tried contacting them and asking them about 2u cases? it will be worth a price premium to you in save hard drives and ram and time taken to replace parts not to mention lost revenue. Your cpu's should just clock down if they get hot but dead drives are a pain.

As regards the advice your very welcome. Its nice to see people making considered decisions and taking advice.

I will definatly get on the phone tomarrow morning and see whats up. I was told 1U is only available but I will see again, They offer "custom" configurations so I assume that would cover the chassis... Thanks again :)

[QUOTE]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A 300 Watt power supply cannot support a Dual AMD setup.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Doing it. Have done so for over a year. Please do not make these claims unless you know WTF you are talking about...[QUOTE]


My bad I forgot what board I was posting on. On this board you need to VERY clear about your comments so you dont get Childish comments from people who cant think for themselves.

In general a 300 Watt power Supply IS NOT large enough to Power a Dual 2600 Setup. Of course the wattage needed can vary alot depending on a number of things. Such as..... Which CPU core you are running, which MOBO, How many drives and what kind, CPU speed and number of Fans.

Add in the fact that all power supplys are NOT the same. Some are designed much better and the better ones will live when being run silly night and day and others will die.

Your best bet is to find a Power supply with at least 30A on the +5 volt rail.

My point to all this? Spend an extra $30 on a bigger power supply and never worry about it. $30 isnt jack considering the cost of the system and for a little piece of mind.

Will a 300 watt PS run it? It has a chance sure... why not. Most 300 Watt PS have 28 to 32 ish Amps on the +5 volt rail, that is cutting it close. But why take the chance?

As far as Innova's comment. Hes running a unknown MOBO with unknown CPU speeds... basically unknown everything..... Hes been running "it" for over a year. What is "it" a flashlight? Thanks for your help it was very useful.

For the record I have an ASUS Dual 1600 setup that ate a very beefy 250 watt server PS, I like trying out stuff for myself.... and it didnt work.

Hope this helps you out some....

2Gunz

Ok Mr wiseguy :)

Dual AMD 2400
2U case, four 7.5watt high CFM 40MM fans
10K RPM scsi drive
Tyan 2466

I have 12 of these. All with 300W powersupplies.

True, if it had more drives or fans I might be worried.

Now we are getting someplace :)

I have 4 Tyan S2462UNG's of varying Processor speeds +2000 and up. Running 2 or 3 10K ultra 160 SCSI's. They would thrash a 300 watt Power supply. But once again its about whats in the box. Im running some 525's and like the fact that they dont ever get more than warm.

My comment about the 300 watt not holding it may have been a little rash..... but considering hes prolly going to run +2600's I would say a 300 watt PS is borderline at best. And for $30ish bucks I would spend the money.

How is that Mobo anyway? Was thinking about getting some...

I love the S2462UNG...... but considering they are $400 each and can be really cranky about running for the first time I was thinking about trying a different board.

Thanks for the advise guys, I decided on a

AMD Dual 2400+
4U Rack w/ 420w PSU
2GB PC2700 ECC Ram
80GB WD 8mb cache HD

Thank you all for the helpful suggestions.

forgot MB, Tyan Tiger MPX

About $200 or so new.

Very easy to work w/

Just a few thoughts here......

If your just doing game servers you would be better suited with 2 or more smaller Hard drives. I use 9 or 18 Gig drives and have alot of extra room. If your doing Counter-Strike each Game server takes about 800 megs of space (with custom maps and all the extra stuff). A Small HD is better suited for doing muitipule things at a time. The bigger the drive the longer is has to "Look" for stuff. Plus with to small drives you can split up the workload between them.

2 Gigs of ram is prolly to much Ram. I have a Dual +2400 and it runs out of CPU long before it runs out of ram..... and Im only at 1 Gig. At any one time I have 500-300 Megs free. Typical Usage RAM usage from what I have seen is from 72-90ish megs. Im running CS mostly but if you where running BF1942 you might want that much RAM.... but then again I would bet you would top it out at 2-4 BF servers and I doubt that number of servers could use 2 Gigs anyway.

Just checked one of my servers....... 20 player CS 1.6 server is full and using 77 Megs of RAM..... 24 Player DC server with 14 players on Using 104 megs of RAM.

Once last thing..... As far as I know there isnt a Dual AMD Mobo that "offically" Supports a FSB speed of more than 266 (PC2100).
So putting PC2700 (FSB 333) wont do anything, and it also might cause it to become unstable. However PC2700 in theory is backwards compatable and should work. In any event trying it wont hurt the MOBO.

You should do our best to get it into a 2U case.... will cost more money now but in the long run will be cheaper because of COLO costs. A dual +2400 in a 2U is a bitch to keep cool.... but it is possible. Find some High output Sunon or Delta Fans and you are GTG. I have a link for some cheap Sunons someplace..... if you are interested I will try to find it.

Hate me yet?

Been there done all this........

2Gunz

Tired of you? naw I enjoy listening to people that know what they are talking about, I am learning alot here! :)

To answer some of your questions:

I have a few sticks of PC2700 on hand so I i saved some $$ by using them...

The case is a 4U. I thought i would need the extra space for the AMD's to breath..

The theory of smaller HD's makes sense and again i used the bigger drive because i have it already but i also have 2 40gb drives as well so that may be something to think about...

One last question? I have a copy of Windows 2000 pro here, Would it be a problem running that on the server? I ask because this will be strictly used for game hosting so i won't need all the other stuff the 2000 server edition makes use of, Basically just the gameservers and FTP accounts for clients...

Thank you.

Just noticed something...... You said you where getting the S2723GNN.... thats a Xeon MB....... not AMD.

And as far as the Winholes VS linux thing, I say run what you understand. Linux is way cool.... but if you cant make it run correctly its pretty useless.

Linux has some good points and its bad points the same with Winholes. And as far as the whole blah, blah runs Counter-strike better than Blah blah, that is pretty much bogus. HLDS takes turns running better on Winholes and Linux. Some patches Linux wins and some patches Winholes wins.

I personally Run Win 2000 Pro. Its very stable and does everything I need it to do. Does it have more than its far share of problems? Ya, but at least I know what they are and expect them. To me thats better then sitting staring at a monitor at 3 in the morning going... "I have to recompile what?" One of these years I will learn Linux, but right now I dont have the time.

My 2 Cents

2Gunz

The bigger the drive the longer is has to "Look" for stuff. Plus with to small drives you can split up the workload between them.

Not true. The bigger the drive, the faster it can find info. I cant really explain this but anandtech did a writeup on this a while back.

Drive RPM and cache being equal, the larger drives will always outperform the smaller size ones.

A dual +2400 in a 2U is a bitch to keep cool.... but it is possible. Find some High output Sunon or Delta Fans and you are GTG

Most 2U cases do not have great airflow.

You have basically 2 options:

1) Pay for high output fans
2) Channel the airflow properly

I usually opt for option 2. A friend of mine does plastic moldings, so I am able to get a custom-fit plastic airchanneling device that will keep my dual AMD's cool in 2U. Under full load, with 16 kernel compiles being done at once, I peg at 46C.

I am building dual AMD in 1U next :) I do not recommend it, though. I will post here when I am done to report on how it went. Suffice to say it will not be a "stock" cooling solution.

Good point before though 2Guns.. use what you know. I believe linux is superior to windows in nearly every way, but if I didnt know linux it would be about as useless as tits on a boar :)


Oh and BTW:

I have a few sticks of PC2700 on hand so I i saved some $$ by using them...

Bad idea, unless they are Ecc/Registered memory. IF they are just regular PC2700 they will not work.

More accurately, if you use an MPX chipset dual AMD board, you can use non-registered memory in the outer 2 memory banks. However, this limits you to only 2 sticks of memory.

Best bet is to bite the bullet and buy PC2100 registered DDR.

I would like to see the article.... logic doesnt exactly lend itself to this idea, but stranger things have happened.

Everything I have ever seen shows that the further you get "out" on the platter the higher the seek times. *Shrugs*

In my 2U's I use 2 or 3 Sunons that rake across the whole board pushing from front to rear. I managed to find them for like 6 bucks a pop when you buy 5 or them. In addition to that I have a smaller fan in the right rear corner that blows to the outside (has both CPU's and the Voltage regulator in that corner ).

Its not nearly as sexy as a duct setup, but does get the job done.
I tried doing some air channeling with metal.... but turned into a headache. I do get the advantage of the Sunons Blowing directly across the RAM and the Chipset.... kinda amazing how cool they get when you get some evil fans on them.

As far as temperature Im not really sure what the max has been.
When I tested it I ran 2 copys of Prime95 and came up with around 56C in an garage with no AC. That pretty much ended my testing..... 95+ CPU usage, No Air and no smell of fire :)...perfect.

RPM and Cache *arent* the only things affect the seek time in a hdd. Larger harddrives may have multiple heads and also more data per cluster, etc, etc... So it may *seem* beyond logic that a smaller hdd w/ equivilant speed/cache as larger hdd's would outperform the larger hdd but you have to take in consideration of all factors. And as time goes on, hdd technology has been improvinge (yes it really has :)).
X-Gaming, if you have multiple hdd's you might also considering using RAID0 (hard/soft).
Now i dont know how to use RAID with windows but its quite easy to setup in linux :D

Bhaad,

Thanks!

I forgot the multiple platters issue. I was trying to find the data to back up what I knew but you took care of that for me :)

Since the servers will be used for game clients a huge drive won't be needed, I am more in need of the faster drive, I at first thought of going scsi but with the extra cost and the faster IDE drives today I don't think it will make THAT much of a difference.

CPU is more important *generally* speaking than HDD speed.

Some games will definitely benefit from the fastest drives you can get. I have both SCSI and IDE drives, and depending on what game or combo of clients I am hosting it defintely makes a difference.

I will even give you a free tip:

Dont bother with SCSI for halflife servers :)

Im running all SCSI, but then again I can get the SCSI drives cheaper then IDE.

Originally posted by innova
Bhaad,

Thanks!

I forgot the multiple platters issue. I was trying to find the data to back up what I knew but you took care of that for me :)

np :)

And innovia raises a good point also, dont need SCSI for gamehosting, you just need RAID :D as this will solve your fast drive issue.

And dont be cheap with 2mb cache hdd's, spend the extra $20 and get 8mb cache.

Originally posted by 2Guns
Im running all SCSI, but then again I can get the SCSI drives cheaper then IDE.

Let me in on this little secret of yours :D

I recently bought a 120GB IDE (8mb cache) and paid about $120 USD for it. so approximately thats $1 / GB.
So youres saying that you can get a 40GB scsi for about $39?

I got the 8mb cache.

Well yes and no.

For me Drive space means nothing, and the smallest HD I can find is about 40 GIGs and $80. About 30 Gigs of that drive will be empty.

Its pretty easy to find a Small Ultra 160 Drive for under $80, and the Mobo I use has an Onboard SCSI controller. And actually even if it didnt you could still find a used controller card and Drive for about that price.

So can I find an 80 gig SCSI drive for the same price as an 80 Gig IDE..... no. But for what Im doing can I find a SCSI drive cheaper...ya.

dont need SCSI for gamehosting, you just need RAID


Unless its hardware raid, like a 3ware or SCSI solution, you will have a tradeoff:

CPU usage versus Disk speed.

I would say unless you want to shell out for a real IDE raid (not embedded "hardware" raid or linux software raid) its worth it.