So will hosts be able to advertise in this "non-profit" forum. I think selling banner space was a terrible move. Please do not delete this post, I'm just describing my opinion.

im just talking to matt about this.. i dun like it either :(

Originally posted by TechnoHosts
So will hosts be able to advertise in this "non-profit" forum. I think selling banner space was a terrible move. Please do not delete this post, I'm just describing my opinion.

Yes, it does put a sort of sinister twist on the forum, even if it is only GreenPeace. I'm not sure what to think of it... but I'm sure Matt will explain the move.

Hi,
Perhaps Matt will limit the banners to charities only. This would be a nice thing to do, considering all the traffic this site has.
But....everyone needs to make a living. :)

WHT has contradicted themsleves again. Where once there would never be any advertising to ugly flashing banners at the top of the page. Good job Matt... Once again you have put another knife in the backs of the people who visit your forums. How about being faithful to the people who support you?

I dont have a problem with the banner being for a good cause. I hope they are not charging greenpeace for it thou.

Regards

Craig

Craig,
the cause probably means little or nothing to WHT. What matters most now is probably the check they get at the end of the month.

---------------------------

ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN:
Who's Next: ***** and Addr Hosting

NOTE: WHEN I SAY WHT I MEAN MATT, NOT THE MODS

I dont have anything against Matt having banners on HIS site. Afterall its not like anyone is going to be forced to click on them, and i see no reason why it will change the forums for the worse. If he is going to sell the banner space to hosts then im pretty sure he wont sell it to companies like *****.
Sitepoint forums have adverts all over them and it doesnt seem to matter.

Matt has the right to make money like every other peson.

your point is well said, but not based on facts. This is another example of a money-based self contradiction. In the past WHT has said " they were non profit, and would not sell ads."

I don't enjoy the banner ad, no links in sigs, no avatars, but come on people. Everyone treats WHT as if it is their god given right for it to be there and for matt to continually shell out money for it! Lets just have a good time and let matt do what matt does...until it hampers someone's ability to post here, let's just let it be.

perhaps he is contradicting him self. but again does it really matter?

A couple of points. One, none of the mods know anything about this, as far as I can tell, so don't ask us about it. Two, if I had to guess, which I hate doing as I might be wrong, I doubt the ad was sold. Three, even if it was, 'non-profit' does not mean 'no income'. There are costs assosiated with running this site and it would be more than fair to break even. Four, even if the site shifted to 'for profit' that's Matt's choice and personally, if I had a site this successful, I'd want to make a few bucks on it and I think everyone here would feel the same way.

Matt has said he'll discuss it soon, so hold out until then. I know the after the fact discussion makes everyone a bit twitchy, but it will be addressed.

Im not opposed to banner ads at all even if they are for profit, as long as their reputable companys and good looking ads. What i do hate is the fact how the banner ad sticks out, if your going to put banner ads up at least blend them into the background, and restrict animated annoying ads LIKE the one your running now, their annoying and hurt my eyes.

Leave the guy alone - his site right?

I like the ads, I like sponsorships.. after all, it's hosting related products right? it's parts of the industry!!

So let's think what would be the best way for Matt to create the ad space.. maybe sponsorships like on SItepointforums ?


hmm..

Once again you have put another knife in the backs of the people who visit your forums. How about being faithful to the people who support you?
You SUPPORT him? You send him a check every month? How do you support WHT? By sending traffic here? Well, zipadeedooda! What does that do but make his bill larger every month?

Support doesn't always mean money. Also this thread was not meant as a flame to WHT. I wanted to know why the banner shows up in the center of the screen one day. If you could just tell me why that'd be great.

Well, the banner certainly doesn't bother me!
If I don't want to see it; I'll just go somewhere else.
But I imagine that most people are upset about WHT's "we'll never. . . . ." kind of stuff. Then one day banners start showing up.
I imagine that when Matt started this forum, his costs were minimal. Today, I'm sure, it costs much more.
You can't really blame a person for self preservation; can you?

Just my thoughts :rolleyes:

I really dont mind the banner ads, after all ...we're all surfing here for free eating up Matt's bandwidth ;) :D

Perhaps we should wait for an answer from him...

If it was a choice between adverts to support the site or no site at all...I know what I would go for! I *dont think* he was paid for this as the advert is avalible to freely download and has the link-to text etc. So I would say he is just voicing something he supports, now wether he should impose his views on us, hmmm! But tis cuddly polar bears :)

I would say that choosing advertisers would be a Good Thing, like seeing an advert for a host who posts here would be erm, well weird :)

But for you bored designers out there, if you click through there is a 'rouge site' contest on their page, asking to design the best spoof BP website...

Marc its not like he has to pay for the bandwidth. He gets the bandwidth for free if my memory is correct.

I think the banner would look better right justified than centered...just my opinion...

From what I remember his server is hosted for free by Voxel Dot Net. Anyhoot, a lot of us admin a server and it takes time. I do not like were the banner is, but if he wants one for any reason, I support it. It is his board.

Well I don't mind banner ads but I just wish there would have been some warning about it. :confused: I mean if money was needed I'm sure people could have come up with ways of making some.

Sell t-shirts, charge hosts to post in the advertising folder!, etc, etc...

If it's to pay for the server etc... then the banner is fine.
If it is to make some money then I am leaning towards thinking it shouldn't be there.

why should he not be allowed to make money for him self?

He might as well put a ad every where, sponsorships and what not.

If your gonna do it, take it all the way.

I mean, any advertisment is clearly making money, which is fine, just a contradiction

Is the WHT gonna start selling hosting packages now also

Joe

What if it's simply that Greenpeace is something Matt feels strongly about and wants to show his support??

It's not.. I meanmaybe it is but he told me that he is putting this ad as a trial to get the feeling of what an ad will look like on WHT...

Anyways, I don't believe that we have 2 pages of rumors.. let's just wait for his final decision.

repost:

I *dont think* he was paid for this as the advert is avalible to freely download and has the link-to text etc. So I would say he is just voicing something he supports, now wether he should impose his views on us, hmmm! But tis cuddly polar bears

Click through - that isnt paid advertising.

Originally posted by Studio-51
repost:

I *dont think* he was paid for this as the advert is avalible to freely download and has the link-to text etc. So I would say he is just voicing something he supports, now wether he should impose his views on us, hmmm! But tis cuddly polar bears

Click through - that isnt paid advertising.


Dem bears scare me :crying:

So we have 2 possibilities[list=1]
Just putting banner there for no pay (likely)
Getting Paid for banner (Geenpeace...I don't think so)
[/list=1]
So, lets suppose in the unlikely event he is getting paid. You all say he has free hosting now (which I am sure he does) but you have to remember all of the early hosting costs that came out of his own pocket, as well as the vB licences.

On the otherhand, he is just be politically/enviromentally active :D and in that case I say: Go Matt!

I think this whole thread is beyond stupid. This whole, "the internet should be FREE" mentality is NOT grounded in reality. I haven't seen Matt telling any of you naysayers what to do with your own website.

Now, if you want to discuss the banner, I would start with the idea of Green Peace being a bunch of whacko's.:rolleyes:

Everyone is brainwashed as a child to think that the polar ice caps melting, running out of oxygen, etc are going to happen during their lifetime. They aren't allowed to teach religion in schools, yet they force children to listen to all the propoganda about the environment without even telling them the facts. The earth's temperature has risen 1 degree in 100 years...in fact the data that was collected suggested that the Earth's temperature was increasing more rapidly before even the 1900's. Even on the site the banner goes to, they announce how offshore drilling contributes to global warming and threatens the environment with oil spills. Yes, I do remember the Valdez, but that was a rare case. Most oil spills are successfully cleaned up. And as far as oil drilling causing global warming...I just dont see any connection between the two, offshore drilling doesn't affect the rate of consumption...The amount of greenhouse gasses in the air has dropped siginificantly in the recent years, yet they preach a doomsday message that we're all gonna die within our lifetime...OK, looks like im a little off topic...ill stop talking...

Why not just wait untill Matt responds to this thread; instead of making all these assumptions:rolleyes:

Everyone is brainwashed as a child to think that the polar ice caps melting, running out of oxygen, etc are going to happen during their lifetime. They aren't allowed to teach religion in schools, yet they force children to listen to all the propoganda about the environment without even telling them the facts. The earth's temperature has risen 1 degree in 100 years...in fact the data that was collected suggested that the Earth's temperature was increasing more rapidly before even the 1900's. Even on the site the banner goes to, they announce how offshore drilling contributes to global warming and threatens the environment with oil spills. Yes, I do remember the Valdez, but that was a rare case. Most oil spills are successfully cleaned up. And as far as oil drilling causing global warming...I just dont see any connection between the two, offshore drilling doesn't affect the rate of consumption...The amount of greenhouse gasses in the air has dropped siginificantly in the recent years, yet they preach a doomsday message that we're all gonna die within our lifetime...OK, looks like im a little off topic...ill stop talking...
hehe

hmm.. matt.. if there are going to be banners.. at least make it look nice :rolleyes:
here are my suggestions, and a slight make over to the header too :stickout

template 1 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index.html)
template 2 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index2.html)
template 3 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index3.html)
template 4 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index4.html) (banner at the bottom)

Wow, excellent templates mate, I think I'll do something similar on our forums.. I prefer the first one...


hmm.. maybe Matt should consider doing special sponsorships like Sitepointforums.com and not standard banners?

As usual Elena Kicks butt.

Great work

Joe

Originally posted by Elena
template 1 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index.html)
template 2 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index2.html)
template 3 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index3.html)
template 4 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index4.html) (banner at the bottom)

:bawling:

Me cant reach em :(

Originally posted by Dexter
Well I don't mind banner ads but I just wish there would have been some warning about it. :confused: I mean if money was needed I'm sure people could have come up with ways of making some.

Sell t-shirts, charge hosts to post in the advertising folder!, etc, etc...

*L*

WATCH OUT EVERYONE THERES A BANNER COMING!!!!!

*ducks*

also, it's matts site, so I think we should all just be glad that it's just a banner, not someting worse =(. AFter all, it's Matt's site.

I feel better now. I'm not comfortable on a site without a banner :)

Just remember it's Matt's site and his decision in the end. For those of you that don't like it I'm sure you can just go to another similar forum. It's just a banner - not a pop up window that spawns multiple pop ups...

this is just going to be a temporary move, until matt can get some stuff sorted out.... :)

Temporary as in he needed to make some quick cash? If so I think that is fine. It is his right to make money off of a non profit forum, right? I bet the red cross web site sells advertising these days too.

As a viewer of the forums, I would not care if he had a banner or not.

However, if I was hosting this site for free in the belief of giving back to the community for a site that does not make any money, which has been stated time and time again, I would refuse host the site for free. This site must take up a considerable amount of bandwidth, and unless the banners at the bottom actually makes the site pay for itself...it's unfair to the host. Any money made, however brief, should go to the host first.

Actually, it would be nice if the site made some money (by showing non-hosting ads) so that it could pay for hosting. This way, it would be fair to everyone. No preferred host, no host getting extra exposure, etc. Just a site with lots of good information. :)

I don't mind the banners at all - Especially if Matt has to make money.

Then again. . . I think Micky makes a valid point.

Nice templates! you must have alot of time.

Well i don't even think alot can be made from advertising these days, unless targeted hosting adverts. The market for online advertising is falling rapidly, you can only get 0.10 CPC and 0.35 CPM at the most these days. I really think its a non profit banner as its for a non profit org.

Don't forget he has to pay for hosting the site and other expenses. Its his forums though, he can do what he wants.

Regards,
HostEXP D

Originally posted by Elena
hmm.. matt.. if there are going to be banners.. at least make it look nice :rolleyes:
here are my suggestions, and a slight make over to the header too :stickout

template 1 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index.html)
template 2 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index2.html)
template 3 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index3.html)
template 4 (http://upside-down.net/wht/index4.html) (banner at the bottom)

he doesnt have to pay for his server or bandwidth

Oh, who does?

Voxel dot net gives it free as WHT is "non proft"

As far as the banner goes, if you are doing it for money let us know, If you take a collection each month, and we all pay $3 or something that should cover your costs. I think we would all be much happier with that idea.

Originally posted by ckizer
As far as the banner goes, if you are doing it for money let us know, If you take a collection each month, and we all pay $3 or something that should cover your costs. I think we would all be much happier with that idea.

Let's see. . . . 5,000 members X $3 = $15,000 a month.:eek:

He could have added popups.....

How about everyone pays $5 to have their URL in their sig set to click-able or $5 a month gets your ad sgown in the banner rotation? ;p

That should definetly payoff the server fees :D


Originally posted by AnIdiot


Let's see. . . . 5,000 members X $3 = $15,000 a month.:eek:

Hey what happend to waiting for Matt to answer?

Originally posted by node9
Hey what happend to waiting for Matt to answer?

We're havin' too much fun now:D

ROFLMAO

Originally posted by Micky
As a viewer of the forums, I would not care if he had a banner or not.

However, if I was hosting this site for free in the belief of giving back to the community for a site that does not make any money, which has been stated time and time again, I would refuse host the site for free. ... :)


How do you know that Matt is not putting up the banner ad as a favor to the hosting company? :D

I suspect only Matt knows why the banner is there, and it is totally his choice whether or not it remains.

The whole point here is that there is an ad on a non-profit site. No problem at all if that is what this site was about, but where is the price structure so I can get my banner up there? Bet that never happens and you wanna know why? Cause this is a "NO HOST SHALL PROFIT" site. My biggest question is "Where Is Matt?" :confused: I'd bet he is out trying to come up with a good excuse to be able to make this site a "Matt SHALL PROFIT SITE" which would also be fine, but not after harping about this being a non-profit site. "Thats not what this site was intended for" But now all of a sudden the "Hosting Forum" is now a "Save the 'Bleepin' Polar Bear Club" Polar Bear, Save the world, Web Hosting..... I kind of see the conection.
FYI, Purposely being sarcastic for the fun of it. :stickout

Originally posted by Hostexp
Nice templates! you must have alot of time.

LOL.. actually I made the original template back when I think it was Duster who recommended that forum members contribute templates. I just never finished the entire template :o so I never submitted it for review.

As for Matt's reasons for adding the banner... I don't think any of us should really snoop into it. Even if he had originally said no banners.. which of us have never changed our minds? come on.. we all do.. and whatever reason made him.. I am sure it was a good reason. :)

But as for the kind of banner used.. I would think that maybe banners for domain registrars, webmaster software, programs, resources, etc. would work a lot better than greenpeace :stickout since it at least fits in with the genre of this board.

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but when I clicked on a thread I got a popup. The only other browser window I had open was my own website that I'm working on offline..

Originally posted by Mr. Amazon
I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but when I clicked on a thread I got a popup. The only other browser window I had open was my own website that I'm working on offline..

I haven't seen anything like that around here.

one more comment on this.. no pop-ups.. PLEASE! :D
at the moment I have 6 browser windows open, icq, ftp, humanclick, photoshop, 3 notepads... you have no idea what pop-ups do to me! :eek:

I know.. popup stopper.. I actually had that installed but it kept freezing my system.. not to mention would get pretty annoying when I actually wanted to open a new browser window.. ctrl or shift clicking links just isn't my style :rolleyes:

but.. that banner in your attachment Mr. Amazon.. that is exactly the type of ad that would not bug me at wht no matter where it was placed.. and I think it would be cool for some needing help finding good registrars, programs and the like. ;)

I could care less if they have one banner at the most. They should do sponserships like sitepoint in my opinion. Yes he gets hosting for free by Voxel but he's allowed to make a profit since its his site though

I have some great ideas on how WebHostingTalk could implement sponsorship type ads..

I e-mailed matt about it to see if he's interested.

Matt's still not commented on this thread????

Originally posted by JamesCross
Matt's still not commented on this thread????

Doesn't look like he's planing to.
What would be the point??

It wouldn't matter what he said, someone would find something wrong with his explaination.

If I was him, and felt like addressing the situation, I'd just make a sticky about it so it wouldn't get trashed.

It's his site. Let him do what he wants.

Just my views:rolleyes:

Originally posted by AnIdiot

It's his site. Let him do what he wants.

Just my views:rolleyes:

True, but is'nt better to stop people speculating on your intentions, by letting them know your plans?

I just noticed the move under the bar thing. Looks better.

Much better position

Originally WebHostingTalk was an integrated part of Host Investigator, a commercial web-hosting directory, started in 1998 however has long since closed. After purchasing the domain and UBB license I moved the HostInvestigator forums to WebHostingTalk, and started promoting the site on Goto.com, ClickExchange, DirectHit and a few other places, at the time it was almost impossible to integrate with the current advertisement system on HostInvestigator, so I decided for the time-being to keep the forums advertisement-free and earn advertising revenue off HostInvestigator. Whilst forums grew rapidly HostInvestigator declined at an equally rapid rate. Later in the year I purchased a Vbulletin license and severed the close ties between WebHostingTalk and Host Investigator. Eventually I closed Host Investigator to focus on other projects including WebHostingTalk. Months later after a few new site designs, several law-suit threats, many sleepless nights, new rules and several new hosting companies this is where WebHostingTalk is now.

My intention was to keep WebHostingTalk advertisement-free, however this is no longer possible. HostInvestigator ceased creating advertisement revenue in July 2000, WebHostingTalk does not currently create any advertisement revenue. My masterplan was (is) to develop a new web hosting directory and integrate it with WebHostingTalk and then move the forums to http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forums/, and at the same time get the /forums/* area free from advertisements. However development is taking a lot longer than expected and completion is a few months away. Meanwhile my credit has dried up, the banks are harassing me and my income is zero. For the timebeing until the commercial directory is integrated into the site I will have to put banner advertisements on the forums. This has not been an easy decision by any means.

I will be selling banner advertising on WebHostingTalk, to selected companies who are established and have a good reputation. The advertising revenue will also allow me to start promoting WebHostingTalk through paid-advertising.

Sorry for the delay in responding to this thread, personal problems with my girlfriend gave me only a few minutes here and there to reply to this thread, I wanted to wait and think through what I was going to say.

Matt,

That should put a stop to the speculation. I'm sure all the members will support your decisions. We all know that running a site this size isnt cheap.

Fair enough Matt, I for one am happy with that explanation.

Yes, I always thought there should be a banner here, if Matt didn't want the money, he could donate it to a good cause. However, the key is communication, as long as you let people know what's going on, most will not have a problem with banners (presuming they don't popup, blink 25 times per second or have sound).

I think I liked the banner up top. But anyways Matt I think http://forums.webhostingtalk.com/ would be better than http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forums/ but thats just my opinion....

BTW I know Ill never afford advertising on here so... ;p

I defintely like the banner where it is now..

Originally posted by venomx

BTW I know Ill never afford advertising on here so... ;p

Why do you say that? Advertising within forums is usually pretty cheap. I'm sure you'd be suprised if you asked Matt for the prices.

Why do you all like the banner there? Seems to be in the way to me... plus it pushes the page down some...

Hi there Matt,
Do you have a Paypal account? You could get some donations via that. Im also sure that other hosts would help out (inc myself) . Nothing big just a few bucks, pounds, whatever.

I think this would help out better than Banner Ads.

Regards

Craig

hmm an idea... it would require *trust* in the hosts and a little more work by the mods but...


What if in exchange for clickable links in the sig a host would pay Matt say $0.50 a month per customer that puts WHT in the referal field when they signup with that host?


** Dont mind me just running ideas around in my head.. heh

Matt what have you done!

QUOTE "contact us for advertisng information."

So anyone who pays enough can show their banner. NO THIS WAS NOT FOR GREENPEACE BUT OUT OF GREAD. HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN THE ROOTS OF WHT WAS TO BE A NON PROFT USER FRIENDLY FORUM?! I knew this would happen.
WHT is going down, and it will never be the same again

I URGE ALL OF YOU NOT TO CLICK ON THE BANNERS.

i may not be frequent WHT so often.. the banner really turn me off.

Matt, what are the advertising rates, i'm interested.

Originally posted by TechnoHosts
Matt what have you done!

QUOTE "contact us for advertisng information."

So anyone who pays enough can show their banner. NO THIS WAS NOT FOR GREENPEACE BUT OUT OF GREAD. HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN THE ROOTS OF WHT WAS TO BE A NON PROFT USER FRIENDLY FORUM?! I knew this would happen.
WHT is going down, and it will never be the same again

I URGE ALL OF YOU NOT TO CLICK ON THE BANNERS.

Did you happen to read and understand Matt's post??

I believe he said that this was a temporary solution. And, once the rest of his plans produce income, banners would be removed from the forums.

At least, that's the way I understood it.

But, you're right! You don't have to click on the banner:eek:

Hopefully this place doesnt get run down with ***** & addr ads. :D

So anyone who pays enough can show their banner. NO THIS WAS NOT FOR GREENPEACE BUT OUT OF GREAD. HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN THE ROOTS OF WHT WAS TO BE A NON PROFT USER FRIENDLY FORUM?! I knew this would happen.
WHT is going down, and it will never be the same again.


You always get one so doesn't read the thread. It was not an easy decision to make and hopefully normal operations will resume when the new directory is up. You don't have to click the banner and it doesn't interfere with your ability to participate in the discussions, its just a banner. I hope you have other things to occupy your time than a banner on WHT.

>So anyone who pays enough can show their banner

No, only selected companies who are well established and have a good reputation will be allowed to advertise here.

>NO THIS WAS NOT FOR GREENPEACE BUT OUT OF GREAD.

Did I say it was for Greenpeace??? Just a test banner.

>HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN THE ROOTS OF WHT WAS TO BE A NON PROFT USER FRIENDLY FORUM?

The roots of WebHostingTalk? I'm not sure where you got that from, I don't remember engraving any roots on to a stone.

>I URGE ALL OF YOU NOT TO CLICK ON THE BANNERS

Now you are just making yourself (and your company) look silly, constructive suggestions and feedback I welcome and review, but shitting on someone's doorstep is just out of order.

I presume I'm going to have to lock this shortly :(

-
This move will not affect the user friendliness and guidelines of the forum.

I spoke to him on icq, he said he would only let reputable companies advertise.

Matt,

Don't lock it on one person's view.

Now, if you started to get slammed from all directions. . . . .Sure I wouldn't blame you.
But you know that there will be some that don't bother to read, let alone understand, what you're saying.

Matt, email sent regarding advertising, i was also thinking about paying a fee to have active links in my sig, i personally think this is a great move!

Naaaaah.. the ads are fine :D

I'm thinking of ways to make money out of my site, without using banners. I'd love to live off my web site, not have a full time job to pay for the *bleep*-ing thing. But even with banners it's difficult... these days everyone's like "now what?" with their web sites.

Don't blame Matt, blame.. er.. the net? :P

Sorg

I over reacted and have already apologised to Matt. My thought, which he has informed me is the plan. is to keep all banners in the directory and keep WHTForums clean of banners.

sounds cool to me

Well

Do what ever you want. Keep in mind that someone is eating the costs for this fun, and last time i checked it wasnt me.

Pay the bills, do what you need too

Joe

At first I didn't really like the ads, mostly I was just suprised at the sudden appearance.. I say keep them, if there's a goal to accomplish, the supporting revenue's gotta come from somewhere. One thing i'd like to see ( my opinion ) are these forum constraints let up a bit. Maybe make up for the ads by allowing avatars again...

wow.

can you lot calm down :) its like you have smelt blood and going for a kill.

I have just come onto this board (check post tally at side!) and why did I come here and register and start checking it/posting - because it is interesting and packed with people with similar interests, some in more experiaced positions , some not. I love this.

Now this bloke Matt is getting grief from his girl and the bank manager - not a nice combo. Personally I dont care about banner ads as they dont affect me - only time i have ever clicked was a thinkgeek one on /.

If you all decide to bugger off somewhere else that defeats the point of having such a forum.

Instead of boycotting the ad, just do what I do, if it is relavant and interests me, i click. if it isnt, i dont. simple.

This is a mole hill - the mountain is *that* way >>> ;)

I like where the banner was moved :) before it was just too weird.. and now it blends more. Anyway, since this is the suggestion forum.. I suggest that the banners stay off hosting. Letting hosts get selected for being "established and have a good reputation " might (I hope not) get ugly like back to when everyone was jumping down the mods throats for recommending some hosts more than others.

What I think should get advertised are webmaster resources. Vbulletin, design tools, domain registrars, sitepoint like you already have. All these can pay really nice, especially with how popular wht is. It will also keep the forums true to what I've always like about it. There is no favoring with hosts.. it is just open discussion to help the community choose for themselves (not having wht choose for them... as bad as that sounds.. to some people its the deciding factor no matter what rep the host holds). What wht thinks is "established and reputable" is not what another visitor here will feel.. if they were burned by that host.. which will happen from time to time. I dunno.. I guess I think it kind of alienates those forum members. :rolleyes:

Just how I feel about it.. I hope you'll take it into consideration. :)

Dear Elena,

I myself would like to advertise on here, but what you said is the truth, domain registrars and other resources would be much better then advertising different webhosts.

First, I want to say that if I am incorrect in anything I am posting, then I apologize upfront. But I am only going on based what I have read on these boards.

I understand your financial issue. I honest and truly do. I think everyone has atleast once been where you are, but there IS a moral issue here.

To my understanding, ubersmith is donating a server and bandwidth in exchange for advertising on the site, exclusive advertising at the time. Just an assumption here, but I would think that they did this in hopes that there would be enough signups so that the board would pay for itself, or the exposure would give word of mouth referrals. To my understanding, without their support, at this time, we would not be viewing the ads to have this discussion. Of course, other hosts may volunteer their help, but again, the same issue applies...

Why is their button at the bottom of the page?

All the hosts that hosted this board deserve to be at the top of the page...simply because this board is here for all of us to access. It takes time and money. If this board goes down for five minutes, that host is gonna be talked about...it has happened many times. Don't let the board run slow. Again, a heavily viewed thread. To host this board, you better be darn sure of your services, because it could easily ruin your reputation. Look what Wizard (is that right?) went through with the VDI mess. Can you imagine the amount of people that probably thought wizard what a bad host, when it was really VDI screwing up?

Now to possibly implement ANY hosting company to advertise on this site takes away the edge of the host doing all the work. Just does not seem right to me. Even if it is for a short period of time...how can you do that? Make money, you keep it, and have someone else pay the bill?

Clickable links for hosts is a much more fair way to make money. If a host can't cough up $5-$10/mo to support the forums they frequent...their pathetic. With a day, you can have paysystems or instabill setup with orders coming in. Monthly income completely independent of whatever that other site is gonna be. There are 5000 members. If you take 10% of that number, you have 500 people, at $5/mo is $2500/mo. At $10/mo, that's $5000. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will make that much, that fast using ads.

Now, any host that does not sign up for it, is gonna look cheap and it's not gonna make them look good, so you have the hosts. You will also get other sites who simply want a clickable link.

For those that are not a host, don't have a site, setup a Amazon thing, so we can donate money.

I am not a host, but I do frequent these boards, and would chip in to help. But if I WAS a host, I would NOT advertise here, because it would bother me that ubersmith was getting a bad deal.

Good luck with your situation Matt. I do wish you the best. And if you do offer clickable links, I'm there...and I think you would have a large following with that.

I actually like that Matt has decided to make money of his site, but I don`t think the banner fits in with the forum but I understand there is no other way at this time. I hope Matt finds a way to get his revenue from his users. My "vision" of a future WHT would be a closely integrated directory with vbulletin. Have a REALLY clean directory (in PHP) on the bottom of the forum (on the same page) that can be investigated further on a separate page. And then implement a hostsearch ranking sceme. And have only WHT users (with link to users posts) post reviews. And then have the "special offers" forum deleted and have them to pay a SMALL fee for a classified add integrated on the right side of the forum. Then the forum would be highly commercial yet clean.

OK, I know this is totally unrealistic mostly because Matt has worked his butt off on his idea, but I haven`t ranted for a long time on this forum :D

Matt, what about also trying something like paypal donate, or amazon honor system(even though I hear they take more out). I there there would be some people including me who would be willing to make a contribution. This place has really helped me out a lot.

Originally posted by TechnoHosts
your point is well said, but not based on facts. This is another example of a money-based self contradiction. In the past WHT has said " they were non profit, and would not sell ads."
Aloha

and your girlfriend said she would never cheat on ya ;)

hehehehe
just having fun ;)

Originally posted by MattF
Originally WebHostingTalk ...



Matt,

Thanks for the history and very candid explanation. It was far more detailed than I expected, I guess that is one of the reasons why WHT is a special place (another reason being the great folk who frequent here :)).

I hope everything works out well for you.

Matt,
Why would you let Sitepoint advertise here?, sure they are a great site but I though the plan was to get more visitors/traffic here..

Originally posted by MattF
>So anyone who pays enough can show their banner

No, only selected companies who are well established and have a good reputation will be allowed to advertise here.
So the large hosts get larger and the small hosts get smaller. I would request that in fairness to all the Hosts that visit this forum, only non-hosting advertising be put up.

Just wanted to say that it is nice to see this is mostly five pages of questions and support (some confusion too, but...), and that Matt has been very candid with his personal financial situation.

I wish I had boat loads of cash to just ship over to the poor guy, but I don't. We've tried very hard to keep advertising off the forums. Matt's recently been able to secure generous sponsors for the servers and data transfer. Unfortunately he's probably still in the hole from the many months of trying to float this puppy on a shoe string budget himself.

While the moderators will continue to keep advertising off the forums from members who attempt to profit from the site, the owner of the site (in my opinion) should not be lumped into the same group. Right now Matt *needs* some financial help. He's not trying to be some greedy young punk.

If you have any ideas of how the forum could somehow generate revenue for him (the least annoying way for all the members as a whole), then I'm sure Matt would like to hear from you. Some good suggestions have already been suggested.

A lot of people suggest donations or a monthly fee for certain features. That'd bring in some decent revenue, but anyone that pays for something is going to want and or expect more in return. That could cause a lot of arguments down the line if things were to be changed for whatever reason.

I think even the mention of "monthly fee" even for extra features would turn some people off right away.

letting people buy threads that stayed at the top of each forum for a daily fee would be pretty cool :) as long as they are clearly marked as advertising so not to fool people into reading the advert.

Aloha

or why not monthly sponsor fees
a host webdev or whatever company could then sponsor the sections or the whole thing depending on package
this way you can get a bit more than advertising the sponsors get better exposure and are happier and it can be less obtrusive as you can spec certani looks for there banner
also maybe allow em to have a sticky at the top of certain forums

I am also sure companies like Plesk and others would be interested to sponsor forums like the
software forum
we did this with an aviation site and have good luck with I when I was with them.

best of luck and I think ya have to do what ya have to do
so more power to ya and I will not go away cause of advertising
I am thankful for what ya have done so far
more people should say Mahalo (thankyou) than bitch to ya

Yeah, something like "Sponsored by" would bring in more revenue for Matt ...check http://www.sitepointforums.com/ to see what i mean :)

Originally posted by MattF
Meanwhile my credit has dried up, the banks are harassing me and my income is zero.

Matt, i would suggest something like a voluntary fund (if you can call it like that?!) where WHT Members can pay a membership fee that they can afford ...just by creating different memberships for $5, $10, $20 / month, etc. I am sure there are many people willing to help you out to keep this great forum alive.

Originally posted by MattF
Sorry for the delay in responding to this thread, personal problems with my girlfriend gave me only a few minutes here and there to reply to this thread.[/B]
I am sorry to hear this, whatever it might be, i wish you the best :)

Originally posted by Kiwi
Yeah, something like "Sponsored by" would bring in more revenue for Matt ...check http://www.sitepointforums.com/ to see what i mean :)

This seems like a Wonderful idea.
It is unobtrusive, yet constructive.

YOu could also implement the Amazon Honor System or PayPal Donate ....

hmm
how many people would actually donate?

I would donate.

I would do both, I heard amazon took more out, but easier if you dont have a paypal account.

I'm a pretty "fresh" member of wht but i think i can and must say my personal opinion about all this.

a) having a banner is ok. if you don't like it scroll down. It's under the banner what's interesting isn't?

b) matt i really hope you get better with your financial /gf problems

c) I strongly believe that matt could start a "donation" or something like that. He helped many companies didn't he?
You guys (including me) found solutions here didn't you?
you found reliable partners!
you prevented from falling into traps by bad hosts... just by reading a thread ... didn't you?
and that because the whole thing stayed PURE.
Saying pure i mean there was no profit for matt and/or the mods by HOSTING COMPANIES - REGISTRARS - DESIGNERS etc....

Keep it that way matt....
Don't except ads from hosting or other related companies...
I think there's a moral issue here...
How could the mods operate when someone says the advertised company is bad, and this company pays matt????

I think we can be a great target group for many kinds of businesses who want to advertise...

d) Who judges if a company is reputable ????? and who really knows if a company is reputable?
I know unknown home-based resellers that offer great support and reliable hosting for example....
And I remeber of "reputable" NOCs that stopped being reputable in a day...

conclusion:
-My suggestion is keep WHT P U R E as it's the what it made it so succesful... please NO hosting adv

-Matt start something that could help you financially I know most of us here will help you more or less.... Just don't make it mandatory for everyone to pay a monthly fee! it will be the end of WHT i know that..

-I highly respect matt and all the mods here for doing an excellent job ... I'm not trying to offend anyone... Just trying to help....

;)

Well, everybody else has posted their opinions so i'll post mine as well.

I do quite understand the finanical situation etc, and by all means I'm not arguing against making money..

But.. I will speak from experience without stating any names....

I did sponsor some software once.. they had their own server etc.. I liked the idea that they were providing a great service for free and liked the idea of helping them out, But, one day a larger company merged with them... (one that makes a decent amount of $ from advertising), I no longer felt compelled to spend the money and resources (the size doesn't much matter) on them and eventually they moved off to the network which they merged with....

Same thing here.. just speaking from the view point of a host.. not saying that my opinion is everybodys opinion but consider Voxel hosting in this one.....

They come along.... WHT needs a host... its a non-advertising board thats just sponsored by someone.. so they shell out a decent amount of $ for the server and the bandwidth etc for a small bit of sponsorship at the bottom where very few people look (could be wrong)..

I just hope Matt has discussed this with them... as a free site is much much different from a site that is making someone $...
It may not effect the site at first.... but be fair to Voxel on this one... who would want to host a site for free when the owner is making X amount... and not compensating the host for the server in one form or another (prefered advertising, better placement etc)

Just my two cents i'd like to throw out there..... in no way am I judging anybody or trying to tell anybody what to do.. just stating my opinion on the matter..

also, i'll have to agree with montini's point....

Who is to judge what a reputable host is?
I would have to agree with others that if you do advertise here its not hosting companies...

another 2cents to the mix :)

I too would like to "vote" with the rest, that ask "no host place banners here."

just my thoughts....

Aloha
I just hope he does not sell it out like Sharkys used to be a cool site now it sucks

but that is jumping the gun

advertising is ok with me just do not sell it out ;)

Originally posted by Micky
Clickable links for hosts is a much more fair way to make money. If a host can't cough up $5-$10/mo to support the forums they frequent...their pathetic. With a day, you can have paysystems or instabill setup with orders coming in. Monthly income completely independent of whatever that other site is gonna be. There are 5000 members. If you take 10% of that number, you have 500 people, at $5/mo is $2500/mo. At $10/mo, that's $5000. I SERIOUSLY doubt you will make that much, that fast using ads.

Just my personal opinion: the by far best idea so far!
Matt would get some money and every host (not a few selected one) can have a small clickable signature link.

I also agree with that idea, $5/$10 a month is nothing for a host to pay. Its a good idea, i'm for it :D

I think the donation idea is a a 'little' unrealistic. I can`t see how it should work so much better here than on other vBs. You see this EVERYWHERE and on boards with multiple times more members than WHT and they don`t seem to bring in more than $300 a month or so. Meaning I would have placed a paypal donation button up but wouldn`t relied on it.

If Voxel cuts Matt of, which I don`t really think they will do (because they have gotten a lot of PR) right now; Then I think Matt should place about 20 SMALL banners on the bottom of the page that will be a list of "contributing hosts", and they could each cost about $40 monthly.

Thats another great idea haakon :D

Originally posted by Hostexp
Thats another great idea haakon :D

I concur. . . .Another great idea for Matt to digest;)

Seems like he's got a lot of support on this issue.:D

Originally posted by Haakon
Matt should place about 20 SMALL banners on the bottom of the page that will be a list of "contributing hosts", and they could each cost about $40 monthly.

Wont that just hammer his bandwidth usage even more?

Originally posted by JamesCross


Wont that just hammer his bandwidth usage even more?

Not unless the button will be hosted by the host. :)



I think Matt should stick with banners. He can charge $100/M. for a banner or so, and it should generate a steady income. I also agree with the links in signatures. ( $5/m.?? :) )

Hope everything will work out.

my $0.02

Is it me or isnt there always a banner? Sometimes I just see the "contact us for advertising information." part...

Sometimes there is only the text link like on the page I'm on right now :)

I think the banners at the bottom of the page isn't such a bad idea but 20 is perhaps a little excessive.

It's been said that banners at the bottom of forums perform better because you naturally scroll down as you read and will end at the bottom of the page. This should also be an acceptable compromise for those who find banners at the top a distraction. 'Stop that flashing ad, it's hurting my eyes!'

Let's just hope we don't end up with a banner in-between each post :)

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
letting people buy threads that stayed at the top of each forum for a daily fee would be pretty cool :) as long as they are clearly marked as advertising so not to fool people into reading the advert. As far as I'm concerned, that'd be much, much worse -- and much more irritating -- than having one banner at the top of the page.

You know, banner advertising's value is declining for one reason -- people "tune them out;" really don't notice them any more. I think this banner stands out only because we're not used to seeing it. I expect that in a couple of weeks I won't even realize it's there anymore.

I have no objection to it at all.

tell me if I'm wrong...
Reading carefully to all the opinions and suggestions...
all I see is ways to make WHT a webhost information store..

ehm...
I have a feeling WHT will never be the same

and...
having just a (non web host related) banner on top ... maybe is not that bad after all ......

Matt, what do you think about all these suggestions?

I guess he's putting these suggestions into action....I dont see the banner anywhere

Why don't you all just relax???

has the banner been bothering you so much in the last couple of days?????

Originally posted by FindSP.Com
Why don't you all just relax???

has the banner been bothering you so much in the last couple of days?????
I personally have not slept since they've put the banner's up!! :D :D

Originally posted by Dogma

I personally have not slept since they've put the banner's up!! :D :D

Well you should be getting some rest today :D

oh man... just when I got used to that....


:confused: :cartman: :angry: :eek: :cool: :D :)

I'm curious (like Micky and DanielP) regarding what Voxel's reaction was to the
banner idea. Perhaps that's why they disappeared?

Donating a whole server (a nice one at that) and a fair amount of bandwidth for a little button on the bottom of the site that has to compete with other, more prevalent hosting ads seems like a waste of money to me.