What is everyones feelings and opinions about leasing servers to people from the Middle East. Namely Turky or that area of the world.

Post your opinion, I am sure lots of people are running into this.

I have many customers from Turkey and must say that, that country is more credible to sell service to than Pakistan. :)

Er - so because someon is from Pakistan means they are dodgy - or even worse a terrorist?

Im not being funny - but this is exactly the attitude that ALOT of people take - and its not on.

Taking orders from abroad has always an added risk - whatever country it may be. Just be vigilant and make sure you vet for dodgy credit cards. If they speak english why dont you make a call to them to confirm etc...

Just dont deny an order based on its origins - ive seen some people on here even BLOCK Ips from certain countrys!!! Prejudice at its best.

Originally posted by BasinWebOwnr
What is everyones feelings and opinions about leasing servers to people from the Middle East. Namely Turky or that area of the world.

Post your opinion, I am sure lots of people are running into this.

I would run a check on the type of payment and verify that its their actual credit card before processing it. But I would have no problems hosting anyone on any of my servers reguardless of where they live. As long as you abide to the TOS/AUP and pay (with your money) I got no probs. :)

Not being prejudice. Just wondering about any actual experiences. Worried about possible charge backs or stolen credit card.
I will do the checks and find out.

Anybody else?

Man. That's harsh.

Predjudice is fear and ignorance.

Originally posted by wubwob
Er - so because someon is from Pakistan means they are dodgy - or even worse a terrorist?



:emlaugh:

No, but it means there is a 98% chance that they are going to try and steal service from us according to last months fraud report. The other 2% are probably terrorist though. :D (j/k)

:emlaugh:

nevermind........I am getting a headache now :bawling:

No, but it means there is a 98% chance that they are going to try and steal service from us according to last months fraud report. The other 2% are probably terrorist though. (j/k)

Last months fraud report? From who? Thats is a big bunch of bull****.

Oh and that joke about terrorists - its extremely BAD TASTE and im sure very offensive to pakistanis.

Picking up on RajanUrs comment- im assuming he is talking about india - and yes IT skills in india are very good over there - all very hard workers :)

Originally posted by wubwob
Just dont deny an order based on its origins - ive seen some people on here even BLOCK Ips from certain countrys!!! Prejudice at its best.

There's a big difference between prejudice and taking action based on past and/or current experience. Please do try and understand the difference between the two.

-Bob

My company seems to be very popular in Turkey. There also are a fair number of fraud signups from that area. I wouldn't give up the customers we get from there over a few bad apples. All the customers we have from over there are a very nice lot. :)

TMX,

Blocking IPS from certain countrys is hugely prejudice. There is no chance then for someon who may be legitimate to even view your site or make an order!!

How about getting better fraud detection that way you can block those that are questionable and allow those that are genuine.

How about getting better fraud detection that way you can block those that are questionable and allow those that are genuine.

Works for me.

You should look at Authorize.net gateway with Moneta support. You will never pay for a bad order or a chargeback again. Been using this for three years now and it is good stuff! Sorta like looking right back odwn the entire card process to see exactly what goes on from the time the card is removed from the wallet! If the customer calls his bank and requests a hold, reciept, or chargeback, you know ahead of time. It allows you to contact the customer or suspend him or refund him.

its not about prejudice, my friend. it is common sense that you need to be careful about taking orders from countries where certain crimes are not being actively investigated.

to give you an example: i am russian-born based in the US. we have a few russian clients that we have worked with very well for a long time. with that said, each and every one of them had to provide documentation above and beyond what we would require for an order from the US. its not about prejudice, its about common sense.

paul

Originally posted by TMX
There's a big difference between prejudice and taking action based on past and/or current experience. Please do try and understand the difference between the two.

-Bob

Exactly.

Ask for the fund to be wired, how do you verify?? Are you going to call everyone??

These Scum Bags (including US.) seem to trade stolen cc cards like baseball cards.

We seem to being having fraud sign up increasing everywhere.

Here is what we do.

Any one who signs up for our service is required to either;

1. Call our toll-free number and verify the account information. This combined with caller-id and the CVV and address information should match perfectly.

2. Send a scanned or faxed image of their credit card (front and back) and optionally an ID if it's a pretty large order, because foreign orders are quite popular.

3. Have a verified paypal account and hope it's not hi-jacked. :(

We don't even view the new orders that come in daily until WE are contacted. Our signup instructions are nice and clear, plus I like talking to our customers and they like hearing people too. :)

Fraud is really easy to stop. The thing we worry about is host-hoppers that run up big b/w bills.

Ok this started out just about experience with people from the Middle East, but it has moved onto fraud in general. As some of the post have said how they prevent fraud I would like to hear from a few of you on how you have handled actual fraud cases. For instance if someone rents a server and pays monthly, but uses the server against TOS, ie: porn, spam, irc. Do you blacklist them in some way or do you just suck up the lose and move on. Which could be difficult in the case of having to change all of your customers ips because one person broke the rules.

I have a good number of clients from the middle east, mostly egypt, saudi arabia and turkey. I have rarely had any problems dealing with them. I see more chargebacks coming from US based customers than customers from this area.

Originally posted by wubwob
Blocking IPS from certain countrys is hugely prejudice.

No it's not, regardless of what the pc crowd might have to say about it..

There is no chance then for someon who may be legitimate to even view your site or make an order!!

If they're coming from an area of the world that is known for high incidence of fraud, I don't want their business - that's only the whole point.

How about getting better fraud detection that way you can block those that are questionable and allow those that are genuine.

This has nothing to do with improving one's fraud detection methods.

Let's assume for a moment that signups from a certain country within APNIC netspace carry a fraud rate upwards of 80%. I have found, as I'm sure many others have, that it is simply not worth my time to weed through ten-twelve fraudulent apps to fine the one or two that may be legit, and that continuing to accept and run fraud checks on said applications will ultimately end up costing me more than I bring in on the accounts that I do accept. Therefore, into iptables they go. I simply do not want to deal with it, and since I'm running the show, I don't have to. That's not prejudice, that's making an informed decision based on experience.

In the four years I've been in business, I have never had a chargeback, and have never fallen victim to a fraudulent order.

-Bob

In the four years I've been in business, I have never had a chargeback, and have never fallen victim to a fraudulent order.

Sorry Bob,

After 10 years I would say that is highly unlikely.

As for the prejudice remark I made. Point taken. I was a bit harsh. [b]My apologies.]/b]

Look into the system I mentioned and will never need to worry about it. Who knows? Maybe Bob uses a similar system.

Also....

Thinking blocking ip's well help fight fraud in certainly not an imformed decision. It's more like a waste of time.

Originally posted by BasinWebOwnr
What is everyones feelings and opinions about leasing servers to people from the Middle East. Namely Turky or that area of the world.

Post your opinion, I am sure lots of people are running into this.

Their money spends as well as anyone else's.

I'd check the order for fraud as closely as any other order and once setup they're bound by the same AUP as anyone else, so I see no problems with hosting anyone from any country.

I've got a handful of very reliable singaporean (?) customers and singapore is often mentioned as a hotbed of fraud oh and I also can think of at least one Malaysian customer too.

Originally posted by TMX
No it's not, regardless of what the pc crowd might have to say about it..



If they're coming from an area of the world that is known for high incidence of fraud, I don't want their business - that's only the whole point.



This has nothing to do with improving one's fraud detection methods.

Let's assume for a moment that signups from a certain country within APNIC netspace carry a fraud rate upwards of 80%. I have found, as I'm sure many others have, that it is simply not worth my time to weed through ten-twelve fraudulent apps to fine the one or two that may be legit, and that continuing to accept and run fraud checks on said applications will ultimately end up costing me more than I bring in on the accounts that I do accept. Therefore, into iptables they go. I simply do not want to deal with it, and since I'm running the show, I don't have to. That's not prejudice, that's making an informed decision based on experience.

In the four years I've been in business, I have never had a chargeback, and have never fallen victim to a fraudulent order.

-Bob

your a horrible businessman & thus are loosing out on profits. your ignorance i am sure has led to other losses in profit. then again, please do keep it up. your loss, is the gain for other providers

Originally posted by aquavelvaman
After 10 years I would say that is highly unlikely.

Four years, And no, it is not the least bit unlikely. One gets out of it what they put into it - if you're lax in your screening procedures, you'll get bit. If leave your door open to anyone and everyone regardless of their past history, you'll get bit. If you pander to bottom-feeders and the lowest-common-denominator, you'll get bit. Repeatedly.

This isn't to say that one won't eventually get by me - only a fool would think they're completely immune to fraud -, but none have yet.

-Bob

Originally posted by a-m
your a horrible businessman & thus are loosing out on profits. your ignorance i am sure has led to other losses in profit. then again, please do keep it up. your loss, is the gain for other providers

Sage words from a guy who can't spell. Classic. :rolleyes:

-B

Heh - TMX i was just thinking that :)

Hmm... I received my first Turkish client not two weeks ago. In the exchange of emails since then I must say that he is the most polite and pleasant fellow I've ever worked with.

I'm sure I'm just uber-lucky that I got the only hosting customer in Turkey who isn't fraudulent :D

I'd also recommend you check to see if there are trade sanctions against the country that the person is from if they are from the middle east or any other "3rd world" nation.

If you are in the US and there are trade sanctions against that country, you could end up dealing with federal issues for possible violations of those trade sanctions. From the research I've done so far, it's a grey area because the internet makes it hard to investigate and enforce but you still may want to be careful.

I personally have nothing against anyone from any nation in general. I welcome customers from any country as a rule. But, if a potential customer is from a country that the US has placed trade sanctions on, I turn them down in the interests of playing it safe and respecting the trade laws put in place by my government. Not gonna risk my business over a $5/mo income from a customer in a sanctioned country ;)

This is not directed towards any specific country. Anyone that feels they should not do business with a sanctioned country should check into it themselves before doing so. Don't do it just because of what I said.

Just food for thought.

(note: I've also started seeing some ref's to this in several hosting co's TOS and AUP's, refusing to do business with customers from countries that are being santioned or blocked. I have considered doing the same which prompted me to start checking into it.)

Devon with his childish comments again...

Your just as likely to get a charge-back from MiddleEast as you are from US/Europe. Doing some extra checks during signup dosent harm..

Originally posted by wubwob
Just dont deny an order based on its origins - ive seen some people on here even BLOCK Ips from certain countrys!!! Prejudice at its best.

Actually this is *prudent* business practice if based on repetitive fraud patterns. It's prevalent in many industries, even PizzaHut ban certain phone numbers from ringing up due to fraud ...

We have *never* received a non fraudulent order from Malaysia, yet have a number of great customers in Singapore, so to limit the problems, chargebacks etc. Simply ban the IP's from even accessing the servers !

wow, I must say, shocking, very shocking thread....

Know I know why so many people dislike USA

Fraud is everywhere including US:D

The idea of blocking IP's is ridiculous since the better part of these crooks will use a proxy.

Use fraud detection, or hire Bob. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Dixiesys
Their money spends as well as anyone else's.

I'd check the order for fraud as closely as any other order and once setup they're bound by the same AUP as anyone else, so I see no problems with hosting anyone from any country.

I've got a handful of very reliable singaporean (?) customers and singapore is often mentioned as a hotbed of fraud oh and I also can think of at least one Malaysian customer too.
Singapore has fraud? never heard.
and oh by the way singapore is in Asia =]

Originally posted by RapidFire
Singapore has fraud? never heard.
and oh by the way singapore is in Asia =]

Yea.. there are certain cases of fraud in Singapore. I understand that some Singapreans get free credit card numbers via IRC. But hey, not only Singaporeans do such things.. Anyone would be tempted to get a service for free.. It's a matter of intergrity.. If you appreciated the host, you would gladly hand over your money for their services.

Fraud can come from anywhere in the world.

Its just you have to use common sense and have diligence.

If you think the order looks fishy, then you call the number listed on the order for verification.

Most giveaways: ordering your bigest or second biggest shared hosting package
ordering a dedicated server from across the world.

Most people conducting fraud will not put their real number and conatacts. The smart ones will put the actual CC information address and telephone. You just have to use common sense.


In most cases calling for verification is the best way.

Yup i agree - the scammer will most likely get scared and run if you want to give them a call.

This is sad trully. I'm not even going to continue reading this thread. I will leave you with this one thought . . . you can get mugged right here in the good ole USA or your own home/backyard.

Never treat people different just because they are from a different region.

Peace!

Originally posted by [eS]s.h.a.z.y
Devon with his childish comments again...

Your just as likely to get a charge-back from MiddleEast as you are from US/Europe. Doing some extra checks during signup dosent harm..

Excuse me?