is it just because they are slimmer? and if so is it possible in theory to make a small DC out of "normal" (cheaper) computers?

Originally posted by WHdot
is it just because they are slimmer? and if so is it possible in theory to make a small DC out of "normal" (cheaper) computers?

Not all servers are slimmer. The Dell Power Edge servers can look like a mini fridge if that's the style of the box you want.

Why are they more expensive? Because they're servers. They're meant to be under constant stress, while a home computer is not.

But I mean what part of hardware is different? CPU, Ram and HDD look the same to me...

Well, if you want a real server then you're looking at;

Intel Xeon
ECC Ram
SCSI Hard Drive
Dual Power Supply's

That's what a server is really meant to be.

For real servers it's like comparing a Hummer (http://www.hummer.com) to a Jeep (http://www.jeep.com/) .

;)

They are built different - more industrial grade. Not only with scsi hdd's and redundant power supplies, but alot of parts are hot-swappable and/or made easy to replace.

For example, Compaq proliant servers are pretty pricey for x86 servers, but they are great to work with because of the way they are designed.

Servers generally run higher end chipsets than the average home system. They also often run higher end processors than the average home system as well as considerably more RAM than the average consumer machine. The addition of SCSI hard drives ups the price yet again. Once you start adding redunancy you've added another layer of cost, adn rackmount cases, due to a smaller (relative) market are more expensive, as are server towers designed to hold many drives/psu's etc.

Then you can, as always, add in another 10-15% because it's marketed as a server :)

also with servers i have been lead to believe that they are much better cooled. Is this true?

Originally posted by slice16
also with servers i have been lead to believe that they are much better cooled. Is this true?

That's usually true. A bigger exhaust fan, a bigger heatsink, bigger fan on the heatsink.

The first difference in price is something only NyteOwl mentioned so far: motherboard chipset. Anyone can put a consumer P4 motherboard in a 2u case and call it a server (and many hosts do). For hosting however, you (should) build the entire server from the ground up with heavy I/O, 24/7 use in mind. That starts with using a chipset designed for that before you even get to drives, cpus or anything else.

theres not much difference between a home computer and a server nowadays,

my pc which has a 1.7 ghz celeron is faster then all my 50+ servers.

computing has become so fast that theres not much of a difference in speed anymore.
a 1.7ghz celeron can easily handle 4-5 mbit/s on a linux machine.

Originally posted by mrbling
theres not much difference between a home computer and a server nowadays,

my pc which has a 1.7 ghz celeron is faster then all my 50+ servers.

computing has become so fast that theres not much of a difference in speed anymore.
a 1.7ghz celeron can easily handle 4-5 mbit/s on a linux machine.

There is a major difference still. What you're comparing your home PC to, is the type of server that RackShack, DedicatedNow, and the rest of them sell. I'd never even think about actually using a celeron as a production server.

If you want a real server, go for a Xeon which is made to be a server.

All our servers are Dual P3 Dell Power Edge's with SCSI drives and RAID, nothing like my home system.....

Alot of cheap providers like Rackshack and DedicatedNow baisically just desktops and call them servers. Those aren't servers.

Rackshack offers Dell Dual Xeon Poweredges now.

Nothing wrong with using standard desktops as servers - its how people sell $99 dedicated servers.
Im not saying they are good - just they arent bad :)

If your talking about a high traffic server then you will need a xeon processors installed(Regardless of the casing). You wont normally see this on a home PC. The xeon chips run on a technology called hyper-threading. Check it out on the Intel site.

Actually at circuit city they have prebuilt computers I saw one with Dual XEON 2.0 ghz, 1 gig SDRAM, 80 gig scsi drive, and dual power supply. It was a compaq one and supposedly a lot of people have em as personal computers. Now what kinda gamer or whatever use it is as a PC would need those stats?!

Hyperthreading would be needed for high traffic servers. But as we know Intel have produced the Pentium 4 3.06 and 3.2GHZ cpu, both of these do have Hyper Threading, so could these be used?

Originally posted by slice16
Hyperthreading would be needed for high traffic servers. But as we know Intel have produced the Pentium 4 3.06 and 3.2GHZ cpu, both of these do have Hyper Threading, so could these be used?

Not sure where you got the assumption that HT is needed. HT is Intel's marketing gimick, its better in some areas and no-so-good in other areas.

Shazy is exactly correct :)

At the end of the day - the hardware you use is entirely dependant on the use of the server.

Some servers i have - are build with standard ATX "desktop" components - i always makesure i purchase a board with an Intel chipset and from a reliable manufacturer.

They use cheapo DDR ram - and work fine. They arnt doing anything of importance - so i havent spent alot on them.

Other servers i have got - eg - dual xeon supermicro - scsi disks - raid - hotswap PSUS etc.. I use these for things i would consider important - (eg our billing/email/website)

Originally posted by slice16
also with servers i have been lead to believe that they are much better cooled. Is this true?

That can be true. However my PC at home is Hybrid (made by myself) running in a normal small bedroom (no air conditioning, windows rarely open) with a 400W PSU, two internal case fans and an extended CPU fan. It also has a small "DDR Cooling Kit" that doesn't do a lot, and a hard disk cooler. It runs 24/7/365 at ~40 degrees centegrade. Even now where the temperature of the room is ~36 degrees the motherboard is 39 degrees, CPU is 41 degrees and the hard disks are 33 degrees and 37 degrees. I wouldn't use my PC as a server (well actually I do but I wouldn't use it as a production server) because:
> Not redundnt
> No parts are hotswapable / easy to replace (dang I had to replace the CPU in December took me ~45 minutes :()
> It runs Windows HAHAHAHAHA (j/k)

Here's what I call a server
> Top-notch chipset (e.g. Serverworks)
> Dual (Intel) CPU
> Dual PSUs (not the cheap unbranded ones either)
> Rackmount case (not just because they're favorites for your colo facility but also because they generally have a better design)
> 2+ SCSI RAID HDDs (preferably with automatic function to disconnect second drive after backup, easily swap between the two if one fails with no shutdown etc.)
> ECC memory
> No *extras* (e.g. no CDROM, no sound card, etc.)
> All of this must be fully cooled (Coolemaster, etc. not the unbranded rubbish)

Just my $0.02

and yes, profit margins are much much higher on servers...that could very well be the main reason why there is such a difference in prices.

less sold = less made = higher cost

The newer P4s do come with Hyper Threading. That's when the Intel CEO resigned, he thought they were commiting financial suicide.

I love the comparison of the Hummer to the Jeep.

A Jeep might have more speed on the highway, but a Hummer has like 500 foot pounds of torque, can go underwater, takes bullets, goes on crazy inclines, and basically doesn't stop.

Of course, a server is what you make it. Anything serving is technically a server, how competant your particular server is for its particular task is the real question.

Yeah, quite a few boxes at Rackshack, FDC, and others are white boxes, which are mini-towers. You can even see the pictures. However, the Dual Xeons RS has now are 'servers', minifridge like, but servers none the least. It can be cheaper to get whiteboxes than it is to get actual servers. The cooling system, processor, etc. are all high end and custom designed to fit the system and run optimally.

Yeah, quite a few boxes at Rackshack, FDC, and others are white boxes
Some of Rackshack's whiteboxes are very good and noticably better than a compaq for example :)

PC = can be bulk order, as the parts are cheap and relatively easier to fix and setup.

Server = Not many would want to get one, although slimmer and normal PC, but parts are more expensive as they are smaller, thus no one wants to do bulk purchase of parts.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
I love the comparison of the Hummer to the Jeep.

A Jeep might have more speed on the highway, but a Hummer has like 500 foot pounds of torque, can go underwater, takes bullets, goes on crazy inclines, and basically doesn't stop.

Of course, a server is what you make it. Anything serving is technically a server, how competant your particular server is for its particular task is the real question.

Maybe an old hummer, but I'd take my Jeep on an H2 any day of the week.

The rest of the topic has been beaten to death with valid points and I have nothing else to add. I just can't keep from responding to Jeep comments. :D

Would a server not be defined as 'a computer that serves [files, websites, databases, etc.]'?

Just like a server at a restaurant:

1) I can go to Denny's and get a 250 pound 40 year old woman with food all over her shirt that takes my initial orders, brings me my food, but never ever comes back to 'check up' or give me a refill on my drink.

2) I can go to the local sports bar and get a 20 year old blonde with a very nice body who comes back now and then to give refills and whatnot. (My favorite, of course!)

3) I can head down to one of the most expensive restaurants in town and get a well dressed man with a twisty mustache and a french/english accent who's back every 1 minute making sure service is perfect (As seen on TV).

All are servers/waiters/waitresses but some are better for the job and, at the same time, will of course cost more.

Wow -- this might not make sense to any of you, but it... kind of does to me? :confused::confused: