I just recieved this :spam: from Robin Hardison of myvirtualnet.net. After searching WHT it appears that Robin posts here under the username rastoma :rolleyes:. Has anyone else happened to recieve this? Would rastoma like to comment?

Oh and the absolute best part is that this spam was sent to an e-mail address that is ONLY EVER listed in the domain name whois databases...

Hello,

I am the owner of one of the servers that was leased by a company that you had purchased webhosting from recently. _The person that leased the server from us has abandoned it. _From what I understand there were numerous problems and issues that many customers experienced and left. The person
that leased the server from me was in complete control and all I did was provide the hardware. _Any issues or problems you had previously will be nonexistent with us. _Since we own the equipment and network connection and have been providing hosting and internet service for over 3 years, you will
have a stable, fast and secure home from now on.

I am not randomly emailing people. _I am emailing people that still have their website and account setup on this server that we now control. If you have found a new host and are happy with them then let me know and I will remove your web files and info from this server. _If you need hosting for your site or need the fastest and most stable service you can get, then we are the choice for you.

What I am offering the people that are on this server is 1 month of free hosting to test out OUR service and see what a difference it is with hosting direct with the source. _You can host the site that is on our server or select a new domain to have setup to take it's place to get your 1 month free. _There is no obligation. _Afterwards if you want to continue, we will
match any previous price/plan that you had purchased. _In addition, we will also give you an identical account for free as a token to show you we are the right choice for you.

Just reply back to me and let me know either way if you need your hosting account restored or to have your account removed.

Thank you.

Robin Hardison
myvirtualnet.net


:angry:,

Why didn't you pm him first to discuss without public viewing? that way you can sort it out like mature people.

Originally posted by ttremeth
Why didn't you pm him first to discuss without public viewing? that way you can sort it out like mature people.

Honestly? Anyone who spams doesn't deserve that much courtesy.

Regardless, I didn't notice they were WHT members until after I went to post here. Also, it looks like their last post was 05-11-2003. Furthermore, I don't like contacting spammers directly, usually just leads to more spam. Reporting such things seems to work better, for me anyway.

I hate spammers

Pipson

So I take it that story of the "abandoned server" was just a front to offer hosting?

If so, what an odd way to present a sales pitch.

-removed--

let Robin fight his own battles.

I just got this same e-mail to another one of my domains!

I hate spammers
Ditto

So I take it that story of the "abandoned server" was just a front to offer hosting?
Yes, it is just a sales pitch considering the only server I am on that I don't own right now is at RackShack and the e-mail they first spammed doesn't even exist anywhere but the domain whois database.

Originally posted by Asci
I am not randomly emailing people. _I am emailing people that still have their website and account setup on this server that we now control. If you have found a new host and are happy with them then let me know and I will remove your web files and info from this server.

Sounds like.. well, have you ever was a client of theirs? How come they might have your files on their server? May they really or do they just say that?

If you were a former client, then it is not spam, unless you have previously asked them to remove your e-mail or unsubscribed yourself.

It's a tough scenario and one where there's no right thing to do. He could just pull the plug on the server and you chaps on the server will have your sites + email down for days, while you find another host. He decided to contact clients on his server, and keep their hosting going.

What would you do if you leased a dedicated server to someone - they add clients to it - they then pull the pin?

(1). Reformat the server.
(2). Contact those people on the server and make arrangements with them.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
It's a tough scenario and one where there's no right thing to do. He could just pull the plug on the server and you chaps on the server will have your sites + email down for days, while you find another host. He decided to contact clients on his server, and keep their hosting going.


I understand all that and if he really did own a server I was on it would actually be commendable. But I AM NOT ON A SERVER HE OWNS. The only server I have data on that I do not own myself is hosted at RackShack and not at myvritualnet.net. The ONLY way he could of gotten that e-mail is from harvesting my e-mail from the whois database.

Originally posted by Artashes
Sounds like.. well, have you ever was a client of theirs? How come they might have your files on their server? May they really or do they just say that?

No, I was never a client of theirs. They do NOT have my files on their server they're just saying this, it is all a big lie to get more business. :angry:

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
It's a tough scenario and one where there's no right thing to do. He could just pull the plug on the server and you chaps on the server will have your sites + email down for days, while you find another host. He decided to contact clients on his server, and keep their hosting going.

What would you do if you leased a dedicated server to someone - they add clients to it - they then pull the pin?

(1). Reformat the server.
(2). Contact those people on the server and make arrangements with them.

You know thats a really good question. I wonder how many clients get scooped like that, I'd thought about it before but figured it was slightly unethical.... on the other hand, if their current host is just giving up at the same time, you're not doing them any favors by merely pulling the plug....

Way to make my thought process more complicated :D

I agree. Has any of your clients (or anyone elses for that matter) actually fallen for this?

Unethical, yes, but moreso - fraudulent if the claims being made were known to be false.

Cheers
Jeff

Oh sorry, I thought you were from a server that your host abanded, and therefore they were contacting those on the server to keep their service from being interrupted.

My mistake. :blush:

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Oh sorry, I thought you were from a server that your host abanded, and therefore they were contacting those on the server to keep their service from being interrupted.

My mistake. :blush:

Aussie, he can only claim it a mistake if he is contacting the clients of his client. But if I understand this thread correctly, there was no business relationship between the "spammer" and the spammee.

Cheers
Jeff

Originally posted by idologicJeff
But if I understand this thread correctly, there was no business relationship between the "spammer" and the spammee.

Cheers
Jeff

You do understand it correctly :D

Originally posted by Asci
You do understand it correctly :D

Oh, ok. Thought so.

Cheers
Jeff

I doubt robin would be spamming. Myvirtual.net is run by robin who offers dedicated servers, i believe they have quite a number of servers, some client didn't pay and he is simply offering you users a second chance. Look at his email, it doesnt even look like spam. You should be lucky the site wasnt pulled off-line, u would of lose all your data, with noone to blame...

We used to use MyVirtualNet services a while ago and now they are utilizing *private* customer information on some of our older, cancelled servers against us. This includes retrieving lists of our customers, then performing WHOIS and then spamming to them. We were paid up to date with them except for one billing issue where they are trying to collect payment from us on a billing mistake they made over a year ago (very unethical and unfair billing practices).

I would definitely recommend anybody who is looking for hosting services or dedicated hosting services to steer clear away from MyVirtualNet. Do you want him to be e-mailing your customers when you stop utilizing their services? This is clearly unacceptable and not only are they illegally using private data from our servers, the e-mail implies that we're out of business or that our clients are out of business (he didn't just e-mail our clients, also our reseller clients, dedicated server clients, clients of dedicated server owners, clients of dedicated server owner's resellers).

Originally posted by universal2001
I doubt robin would be spamming. Myvirtual.net is run by robin who offers dedicated servers, i believe they have quite a number of servers, some client didn't pay and he is simply offering you users a second chance. Look at his email, it doesnt even look like spam. You should be lucky the site wasnt pulled off-line, u would of lose all your data, with noone to blame...
I would agree with that but -
Originally posted by Asci
Yes, it is just a sales pitch considering the only server I am on that I don't own right now is at RackShack and the e-mail they first spammed doesn't even exist anywhere but the domain whois database.

I got the same spam from Myvirtual.net I was not particularly pleased. I never did business with him directly (or gave him my contact info), however I did have a server there though a company doing business with them a long time ago. That person is still doing a healthy business, as opposed to what Robin Claims. One reason I made a choice to leave that datacenter back then... we repeatedly asked to be moved to a non-cogent line. I was told that would be no problem.... and they never seemed to be able to *get around to it*.

I left that DC, and never looked back. If the DC support is unresponsive, it makes it difficult to run a business. Now, after all of this time, he is e-mailing me acting all concerned? Sorry, I am not buying that story.
Glenn

Originally posted by dside443
We used to use MyVirtualNet services a while ago and now they are utilizing *private* customer information on some of our older, cancelled servers against us. This includes retrieving lists of our customers, then performing WHOIS and then spamming to them. We were paid up to date with them except for one billing issue where they are trying to collect payment from us on a billing mistake they made over a year ago (very unethical and unfair billing practices).

I would definitely recommend anybody who is looking for hosting services or dedicated hosting services to steer clear away from MyVirtualNet. Do you want him to be e-mailing your customers when you stop utilizing their services? This is clearly unacceptable and not only are they illegally using private data from our servers, the e-mail implies that we're out of business or that our clients are out of business (he didn't just e-mail our clients, also our reseller clients, dedicated server clients, clients of dedicated server owners, clients of dedicated server owner's resellers).

WOW

Now it's time for Robin to slither in and try and come up with an explanation for that. If that's true (and I'd have no reason to think Dave was lying) Robin should be drawn and quartered at dawn.,

That would make 2 users to prove MyVirtual.net of spamming. Not good, not good....

Originally posted by SB-Host
I got the same spam from Myvirtual.net I was not particularly pleased.


Well there goes the theory that Robin accidently sent this to me and was only trying to help.

:rolleyes:

I will only post this one email to this ridiculous garbage. Everyone can make all the replies they like but if anyone wants a reply or really has something of importance they can email it to me.

First Ryan since you didn't have the guts or balls to PM before you posted lies then don't PM again asking me to respond. You had no care what I had to say before the fact so don't worry about what I have to say after it.

To keep from wasting a lot of time, I will give concise answers to various things that I've read and anyone that has time to kill can go back and read the full thread:

I did not mention the person who owned the server previously but since David joined in I will reference him and his company. David is a top notch guy and a professional and runs a good business. He was honest for the most part and I trusted him to do the right thing but he chose not to. Due to a fault on BOTH of our sides he had a server that had not been paid for for several, several months. It was my fault for not catching it and he claims since since I did not catch the mistake that he is not responsible and lablels my attempt to collect the money as shady business practices. He says because he is so busy and they pay so much through Paypal he did not know the subscription that was setup was for a yearly payment by accident so he's not gonna pay. So it doesn't matter about being responsible or moral it's all about he's too busy to know what he's not paying but someone can't be. I accepted we were both had errors with our accounting and offered to accept 50% as payment in full... that email was ignored.

Other than that I still appreciate David for his past business for his other machines and wish him well. It's too bad he feels it necessary to not pay his obligations and in return bad mouth the person he owes money to to turn the attention away from him.

The server that David had with us was abanonded. Some accounts are still pointing to the server. He did not email or contact us to cancel his account for this last server. So I did and are still currently going through and contacting each user that was on that server to see if they need any assitance. If David left me hanging it was reasonable to think some of the users on that server were left hanging as well. I only emailed users on that server and nobody else. I have not emailed dedicated server clients since I am only contacting people who had a virtual accounts and have no idea who his dedicated server clients are.

We have not offered Cogent in the data center for almost 6 months but kept the circuit lit until everyone could move. After 6 months David had not updated all the Cogent only IP's on that machine to the multihome IP's. Some were some were not. Users had problems because of being on Cogent only, that's why we contacted him several times about the IP's to get them swapped over. Since Cogent only has been gone we have one of the best network connections anywhere.

I did not spam ASCI... I got his contact info from the info that is on MY server that I OWN.

Ryan, on MY server that I OWN you had the website:

little-hill.net - IP: 139.81.50.25, username: asci, Setup Date: Fri Aug 23 20:25:44 2002, Quota: 2000 meg, Space Used: 18 meg, Package: Reseller Basic

Does that sound familiar Ryan or did I just make that up or harvest that info too? Do you know how I got that info? It's because it's on a server that I OWN. So that makes you a liar since you said your files is not on a server that I OWN and was aboslutely sure of yourself.

So excuse me for offering help to someone that COULD have needed help. I mentioned in the email that I sent to everyone and that is still being sent to the rest of the people on this active server is if they have moved and happy then fine... only if they do need help then we are here if they need us.

I never said Versehost is out of business.... I didn't mention their name or David's. I said they abandoned this server (that has money owed) on it. There was nothing else implied and was clearly understandable.

Anything else anyone wants to believe go ahead. It won't matter what I say once some loser gets it in his head to be a jackass even after being proved wrong.

The bottom line is this server was not paid for and abandoned without any cancellation notice. I couldn't know if the customers have moved or not. I feel that as a responsible dedicated server company, my responsiblity is not only to the person who leases a server but to every client on that server. When a server is abandond for nonpayment or any other issue, I have two choices to make: shut the server down and leave everyone hanging or contact everyone on the server and assist them or provide them with options. They can host with us or move on, it's up to them. The issue here is not trying to get someone's business but to take care of the clients that are and were using MY hardware. This may be a delicate issue but I chose the decision as I felt was appropriate.

First of all, the claim that we "abandoned the server" is untrue. That server that you mention which Ryan's account may have been on was paid for. In fact we were overpaying it at $174/month for server + CPanel license even though you did not supply the CPanel license for months as we became a CPanel direct partner NOC. I had only cancelled that subscription yesterday prior to the next renewal. That server has no money owed at all.

Please remove that tidbit regarding the web site that was on the server. You have no right to that information and you're violating my right to privacy as well as that site owner's right by revealing confidential information including their web site URL, package name/size, web site size, date of activation. Let's say that person has a competitor studying the size of his web site and what dates he swithced web hosts, you just made it much easier for them.

Now, regarding the billing issue: I don't know what is in your mind, but if you supply me a billing link ONE YEAR AGO and then ONE YEAR LATER make a decision that it was incorrect and decide to inform me that you will be billing me now, sorry but I'm not obligated to make that payment. Not only is over three months a ridiculous timeframe to notify me of a billing error, but it wasn't my billing error, it was yours! Take some responsibility for your own mistakes.

Now, you say, "I couldn't know if the customers have moved or not." Gee, you couldn't have taken the 1-2 minutes to do a WHOIS lookup on some of the domains? You could have asked me. Now, you've upset some of my customers because we've always given them excellent privacy and we've always expected our vendors to maintain this level of confidentiality.

You were offering help to someone that COULD have needed help. Well, look at all those web sites on the Internet that COULD have needed help. Are you going to spam them next?

We could have easily taken you to court over this and still can, since you are a competitor and you used "unfair means" to gain confidential data from our company by masquerading as a legit vendor. However, I will accept a PUBLIC APOLOGY to our clients who you spammed, posted in this thread and sent by e-mail.

Damn it.... you made me break my 1 message rule. Now I have to make it no more than 2 posts :)

First of all, you HAVE an account with us. Your account is over due by more than $1500. Your argument about MY billing mistake is baseless. You used the server.... you knew how much the monthly charge was.... you knew the server was not being paid for. Just because you decide you don't owe the money doesn't mean you don't. A wrong payment link doesn't automatically convert your obligation to the amount in the wrong link.

You never told us you became a Cpanel partner noc so we were not overbilling you. Once you informed us, I even credited the amount of Cpanel off your account even though I paid for the licenses during that time.

Ryan called me a liar and said his account and website was NOT on any machine that I own. I showed him that it was. His name and website is listed in his own tagline... not private.

There are 187 domains on the server.... 1-2 mins??? I did do a whois on a random selection of domains (about 12) and 4 of them still have nameservers pointing to IP's on the server. We are not emailing the people that we know that have moved. Stop trying to make people think you moved ALL of your customers.

There is no confidentiality in a person's public email address that belongs to an account that is residing on a piece of equipment that I own.

You can pay the 50% of your overdue balance that I am still willing to accept as payment in full and will accept that as an apology for not paying your bills.

You never sent us an invoice or bill, ever. Those PayPal subscriptions was what everything was based on. We were never even informed of any payment due. If you sent a monthly bill, then we do owe the money because we are informed of it. This is like if you bought a computer from Dell and they charged you $1147 instead of $1417. One year later, they could not call you and tell you that you owe them money because they found out they made a mistake.

Just because you decide that I owe the money doesn't mean that I do. You have a responsibility to inform of billing errors that you wish to collect on within a certain timeframe and one year isn't acceptable!

Whether or not it is your hardware, I paid for a service and you illegally retrieved information that was generated as a result of the service. Since you are a competitor, this is an unlawful means of retrieving confidential data and is no different from someone from a competitor getting a job with us just to get customer lists.

[edit: fixed spelling errors]

First Ryan since you didn't have the guts or balls to PM before you posted lies then don't PM again asking me to respond. You had no care what I had to say before the fact so don't worry about what I have to say after it.

The only reason I sent you a pm was to see if maybe you wanted to apologize for spamming me before I contacted Bell South and Global Compass
regarding the spamming from one of their users.

Due to a fault on BOTH of our sides he had a server that had not been paid for for several, several months. It was my fault for not catching it and he claims since since I did not catch the mistake that he is not responsible and lablels my attempt to collect the money as shady business practices. He says because he is so busy and they pay so much through Paypal he did not know the subscription that was setup was for a yearly payment by accident so he's not gonna pay.

This somehow makes it ok for you to spam me? Interesting.

So it doesn't matter about being responsible or moral
Apparently not to you and the rest of the spammers in this world.

I accepted we were both had errors with our accounting and offered to accept 50% as payment in full... that email was ignored.
Again, a fight between you and another company, boo hoo. I don't care who owes who money. What I care about is the fact that you spammed me (and my clients?) with a deceptive e-mail.

Some accounts are still pointing to the server. Mine isn't. It hasn't been since September of 2002. Thats what, 7 or 8 months ago?

He did not email or contact us to cancel his account for this last server. Yet again, I DON'T CARE, you're simply making excuses. A fight between you and one of your clients doesn't give you the right to spam me.


So I did and are still currently going through and contacting each user that was on that server to see if they need any assitance. If David left me hanging it was reasonable to think some of the users on that server were left hanging as well. I only emailed users on that server and nobody else.

So, not only did you spam David's clients, you also spammed the clients of any resellers that might of been on that server? I know that I recieved spam from you on at least one of the domains that was setup as a client of a reseller on that server.

I have not emailed dedicated server clients since I am only contacting people who had a virtual accounts and have no idea who his dedicated server clients are.
So some people haven't been spammed by you? Thats great news! I just hope they don't feel too left out.

I did not spam ASCI... I got his contact info from the info that is on MY server that I OWN.

A server that you own which had data that you did not own and had no right to access?


Ryan, on MY server that I OWN you had the website:

Yes, HAD as in 7-8 months ago. Like Dave has already done, I will too ask you to remove my confidential information from your post. You not only have no right to access that data you have even less of a right to publicly post it.

Does that sound familiar Ryan or did I just make that up or harvest that info too? Do you know how I got that info? It's because it's on a server that I OWN.

Correct, I did have an account on a server through VerseHost and not you. I was never a client of your company and sure as hell never will be. The e-mail you spammed was not located on your server and never was. The e-mail you spammed was taken DIRECTLY from the whois database, it didn't even exist until 2 weeks ago. Oh and by submitting a whois query, you agree that you will use the data only for lawful
purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to:
<snip>
(2) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone.


The bottom line is this server was not paid for and abandoned without any cancellation notice.

INCORRECT. The bottom line is that YOU sent Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail to me and at least one of my clients. I was never a direct client of yours, I never gave you my contact information and I sure as hell never asked you to contact me.


I couldn't know if the customers have moved or not. You also have no right to know if the customers have moved or not. You have and had absolutely no relationship with those customers. You did not have David's permission or the permission of those customers to EVER contact them.

His name and website is listed in his own tagline... not private. That is correct, what IS confidential is the username, the activation date, the quota, the space used and the package name.

There are 187 domains on the server.... 1-2 mins??? I did do a whois on a random selection of domains (about 12) and 4 of them still have nameservers pointing to IP's on the server.
Oh, but you did have time to spam them.

There is no confidentiality in a person's public email address that belongs to an account that is residing on a piece of equipment that I own. For the last time, the e-mail address you spammed is not and was never hosted on your equipment. It didn't even exist until 2 weeks ago.

I too will wait for your apology.

Originally posted by dside443

Just because you decide that I owe the money doesn't mean that I do. You have a responsibility to inform of billing errors that you wish to collect on within a certain timeframe and one year isn't acceptable!

[/B]

A bank puts a millon $$'s into your account by mistake. oops
You spend it, even though it was a bank error.

You WILL go to jail for theft.

You knew you were not paying. Yet you continued to use the services KNOWING full well you were SUPPOSE to pay. It's not your right to decide what is an acceptible time frame or not when you agreed to the price and monthly charge when you contacted me wanting to lease the server.

You STOLE services.... period..... invoice or not.

Im going to be brief here..

Reading through the thread i believe Rastoma did not spam but was doing the right thing by contacting customers on the box in order to help them out. I would of done the same thing.. IM sure Robin has 1000 better things to do than go through 170 domains to find out exactly who is still using the box and who is not.

How about the other possible 100 clients and websites that have no idea whats going on and there server would of been unplugged by now if Robin did not take the time to contact them.

Asci seems you and dside443 have planned this to honestly effect someones business. From what i can tell and by the amount of racks MVN has at globalcompass they dont need your 100 or so customers.

dside443
If you agreed on a price to pay and the link or whatever did not work and you igored it and did not contact them about it, you are hiding behind an excuse but the money is still owed. You have used the services and now because there was an error you refuse to pay??? I would be sending you collectors not offering 50% payment.

Its like if a merchant account cant bill your card for some reason and the company only notices it three months later, they will still bill you the money owned. DELL and MVN are two differnt companies offering different services.

Asci your whole life story and communication points are in your sig how are you going to say that your privacy has been effected? and about sending a spam alert to Globalcompass everyone will be laughing together...

Cant Believe people get p*ssed of when others try to help.. as i said there is a more sinister plan between the two against Robin.

Regards
Phillip

Thank you... a good point.... the few customers that might get hosting from us is not significant enough for me to do something to hurt my business or reputation.

I'm sorry if someone mistook the email as spam and maybe I should have used different wording in the email but it is not spam. I felt it was more important to let people know the situation of their files on my server than to verify if/when someone moved already.

I clearly stated in the email that if the person did not need their files on my server to let me know and I would remove them.

Hello everyone,
Perhaps I should add my $0.02. In the past history I've known Robin as a top notch honest, kind hearted professional business man. All of this out right preposterous lies / bad mouthing toward Robin, is crazy. Perhaps everyone should go and take a breather, and think, before what they say next.

Choppy, maybe you are misunderstanding. I followed their billing procedure and paid exactly what they billed us via a PayPal subscription. They entered an incorrect number in the subscription plan link that they provided, which neither of us realized, until he pointed this out one year later. It is not like the form said "PAYMENT ERROR" and then I refused to pay as you make it sound.

He knows this and this is why he is trying to get only 50%. It is his own problem and it was his responsibility to bill correctly at the time. If he sent this to collectors, we would have sued him long ago as it would be such an obvious crime that any of his defense would be a joke.

Whether or not they need my customers, they don't have the right to take confidential data and spam my users. Phillip, tell me this. How would you feel if you had a couple servers from Robin, all of which were paid for, and when you cancelled, Robin e-mailed your clients telling them that the server was abandoned and that they could switch to him. Remember, all of our servers are paid for - there is only one which for some reason he believes we owe him money for. Let me repeat, the servers which users he spammed were PAID FOR and unrelated to that one server which he believed we owe him money for.


Choppy, we have a lot more than 100 customers or whatever number he said, but we use a low customer to server ratio to guarantee lower chances of failure and higher speeds/stability. I'm sure if Robin had access to our other servers, he would be e-mailing those clients too as soon as we cancel. Whether or not he was trying to "help" our customers, he has no right to take private data from the server.


Offering services to users on a cancelled customers box is not "helping them out"! It is malicious competition. So, Philip, are you saying if I signed up with SURRENDERONLINE and then cancelled 2 months later, fully paid, you would contact my users saying that the server was abandoned?

If you're really questioning my intentions, search my previous posts regarding MyVirtualNet. I've always praised them and Robin about how great, responsive, etc. they are because I did enjoy their services.

chattr +u, how would you feel if Robin spammed your clients?

Originally posted by chattr +u
Hello everyone,
Perhaps I should add my $0.02. In the past history I've known Robin as a top notch honest, kind hearted professional business man. All of this out right preposterous lies / bad mouthing toward Robin, is crazy. Perhaps everyone should go and take a breather, and think, before what they say next.

There are no lies, I recieved an unsolicitied e-mail from a company I had NEVER done business with asking me to pay them money to continue hosting me.

Clients under my reseller account also recieved unsolicitied e-mail from a company they had NEVER done business with asking them to pay them money to continue hosting them.

Originally posted by Choppy
Reading through the thread i believe Rastoma did not spam but was doing the right thing by contacting customers on the box in order to help them out.

To help them out? If you recieved an e-mail with the exact same wording from someone who never hosted you, would you consider them trying to help? Are all those people who send you offers to increase the size of certain organs not really spamming but just trying to help your sex life?

IM sure Robin has 1000 better things to do than go through 170 domains to find out exactly who is still using the box and who is not.
Like send spam to the owners of those 170 domains?

How about the other possible 100 clients and websites that have no idea whats going on and there server would of been unplugged by now if Robin did not take the time to contact them.

I don't know the details of the particular server and honestly don't care. It would be VerseHost's responsibility to deal with their clients as they see fit and not that of Robin.

Asci seems you and dside443 have planned this to honestly effect someones business.
My only plan in all this was to let the community (WHT) know about the unethical, imoral and possibly illegal actions of some of its members.

Asci your whole life story and communication points are in your sig how are you going to say that your privacy has been effected?

No where in my signature does it state that I was on a server provided by VerseHost on ________ and that the said account had ______ disk space, _______ bandwidth, and that it was using _______ space out of its quota. It also doesn't list the username I used on said account. Furthermore, it doesn't list the e-mail address that was used to spam me. (That was the point of this thread.)



and about sending a spam alert to Globalcompass everyone will be laughing together...
So be it. Thanks for saving me the time, I'll call Bell South instead.

Cant Believe people get p*ssed of when others try to help. Is that what we call spamming now? Trying to help?

as i said there is a more sinister plan between the two against Robin.

That is completely untrue and I take great offense at that statement.

Originally posted by Asci
There are no lies, I recieved an unsolicitied e-mail from a company I had NEVER done business with asking me to pay them money to continue hosting me . . .
But you were on one of myvirtual.net's servers though?

Please clarify that, as you seemed to say you were not on their server.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
But you were on one of myvirtual.net's servers though?

Please clarify that, as you seemed to say you were not on their server.

Sorry about that Bob, I realize this has all gotten quite confusing.

I was a client of VerseHost for a couple months in 2002, apparently they did have a server with myvirtualnet.net at that time.

From what I gather from Robin's posts, MVN took it upon themselves to gather personal, confidential information from a clients server and then use this information to send UCE to all the people hosted on the server.

Again, I did not have a client relationship with that company, myvirtualnet.net.

Originally posted by Asci
. . . Again, I did not have a client relationship with that company, myvirtualnet.net.
It might not seem that you didn't have a "client relationship" with myvirtualnet, but in reality, you did, although not a direct client. A realtionship does exist. You just may not be aware of such.

Now far beit for any of us, here in court of WHT, to make judgements on what happened here. We only see a snippet of what really went down.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
It might not seem that you didn't have a "client relationship" with myvirtualnet, but in reality, you did, although not a direct client. A realtionship does exist. You just may not be aware of such.


I'll agree with that somewhat. However, think of how upset a reseller gets when their host 'accidently' sends an e-mail to all their clients. In this case it wasn't even MY host that sent an e-mail to myself and my clients. It was the Dedicated Server provider! Imagine RackShack going around e-mailing the owner of every single domain on a server when they unplugged it. I know people would be screaming bloody murder on here.

Originally posted by Asci
I'll agree with that somewhat. However, think of how upset a reseller gets when their host 'accidently' sends an e-mail to all their clients. In this case it wasn't even MY host that sent an e-mail to myself and my clients. It was the Dedicated Server provider! Imagine RackShack going around e-mailing the owner of every single domain on a server when they unplugged it. I know people would be screaming bloody murder on here.
Yep, it's a tough issue, which take me back to my earlier post -

It's a tough scenario and one where there's no right thing to do. He could just pull the plug on the server and you chaps on the server will have your sites + email down for days, while you find another host. He decided to contact clients on his server, and keep their hosting going.

What would you do if you leased a dedicated server to someone - they add clients to it - they then pull the pin?

(1). Reformat the server.
(2). Contact those people on the server and make arrangements with them.

However, I paid for the affected server and cancelled it. They proceeded to contact the users. The contacting the users part should have never happened. What happens to my clients should be up to me and not up to my vendor?

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Yep, it's a tough issue, which take me back to my earlier post -
(2). Contact those people on the server and make arrangements with them.

Unfortunately, thats not what happened here. More than half the e-mail was a sales pitch about how my old host sucked and how Robin's company was the best thing since sliced bread. Furthermore it wasn't an offer to leave the server on for another couple days and let everyone download their files, it was an offer to continue hosting with them.

What I am offering the people that are on this server is 1 month of free hosting to test out OUR service and see what a difference it is with hosting direct with the source.

To take a real example of trying to help, when CyberWings stopped paying its bills, RackShack brought their servers back online to allow clients to download their files. They didn't send out an e-mail to all the clients offering to host them as RackShack virtual server customers.

Originally posted by Asci
There are no lies, I recieved an unsolicitied e-mail from a company I had NEVER done business with asking me to pay them money to continue hosting me.

You seem to change your mind "again". Lets go back in time...

They do NOT have my files on their server they're just saying this, it is all a big lie to get more business. But I AM NOT ON A SERVER HE OWNS. The only server I have data on that I do not own myself is hosted at RackShack and not at myvritualnet.net. I understand all that and if he really did own a server I was on it would actually be commendable

I am not sticking up for Robin, Infact we have our distant views and its probably the first thread your going to see that I am posting in regard to Robin and not arguing with him ;)...

I just doesn’t add up, its a bit like the USA/UK story for going to war with Iraq, it changed like 5-6 times over the course and still is today since they haven’t found any WMD...

Back on topic... In fairness what Robin did was looking out for fellow hosters however I am not so sure about the emailing client idea... Like BOB said he had two choice, both which were wrong and both which were right.

If today he had switched off that server, we would had people here complaining how he could have left it on a little longer so they could have got there data off....

I am not going to put words into your mouth, but those of us who have even the minuet amount of brain-cells have worked out what happened in this scenario.

My 0.2 cents..

Originally posted by dside443
Choppy, maybe you are misunderstanding. I followed their billing procedure and paid exactly what they billed us via a PayPal subscription. They entered an incorrect number in the subscription plan link that they provided, which neither of us realized, until he pointed this out one year later. It is not like the form said "PAYMENT ERROR" and then I refused to pay as you make it sound.

Two questions, since this argument is now public and therefore everyone's business:

1 - What was the monthly amount you agreed to pay for the server upon signup?

2 - Whay was the amount you were actually billed?

-Bob

Originally posted by [eS]s.h.a.z.y
[B]You seem to change your mind "again".


My apologies for the confusion, you're quite right. The confusion here is steming from the fact that I was never a direct client of MyVirtualNet.net. Therefore, I do not consider it to be 'his' server.

At the time of originally posting this I was not actually aware that I was ever hosted on a server @ MyVirtualNet.net (I hadn't heard of the company until I recieved the now infamous e-mail).

After hearing from Dave, I now know that 8 months ago my site which was hosted by VerseHost happened to be located on a server at MyVirtualNet.net.

The part that is confusing me is that it appears, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the server that did not receive payment is not the same server as the one that the client info came off of.

Is that true, or false?

Originally posted by [eS]s.h.a.z.y
I am not sticking up for Robin, Infact we have our distant views and its probably the first thread your going to see that I am posting in regard to Robin and not arguing with him ;)...



:) If you'll search I actually replied a good while back to you where I wasn't aruging with you either :D

Off topic... but you and I have been ok for some time... I've matured past our differences in the past.

On topic... while you're not sticking up for me, it's nice to see you and others can see that I was not trying to do anything malicious.


David - it doesn't matter what server was paid when. You have ONE account with us... just because you eventually cancelled a server that you stole service from doesn't mean that your past due account becomes closed. I wasn't contacting customers on that box to TAKE your customers. You failed to do any of the upgrades or IP changes that we urged you to do for months and that caused that machine to have lots of network issues because of keeping the base IP on a Cogent only IP. The Cogent connection was finally pulled and the machine was left dead in the water with domains and nameservers still pointing to it.

Well dave,

You paid and you prob knew that MVN made a mistake but you thought it was a good chance for you to use them? What right minded business man with honesty would do such a thing?

If i was a MVN customer and i noticed something wrong in billing that i have not paid or what not, i would be scared that this would some how effect my customers if they switched me off for some reason. Why did you not think about the RISKS you were taking by not informing them or not willing to pay after you have used the service. To me this is dishonest and risky for your clients.

After having a chat to Robin a hour ago i am under the impression that the services are still running for a ded server and there are customer sites there still running as usual.

Now
Number 1) Who in there right mind would leave customer data on a server they cancelled?
Number 2) Why would you not have told or moved the customers already before you even cancelled the server
Number 3) If you used for what you have not paid for Pay it up and dont expect any favours from anyone.

Running ded servers is not an easy job and is not cheap, everyone makes billing mistakes and you should of been more honest - Im sure i read that you did not notice it, come on does not matter how busy you are you can notice a transaction come through for large amounts all the time.. Dont you have tax accounting to do to add these figures in?

Asci your everywhere mate and fare enough you did not know you had anything to do with MVN but you actually did because your current or ex host verse host has an agreement for a ded server with MVN.. This alone in a way makes you the responisiblity of the OWNER of the HARDWARE ( MVN ).

I did not mean to offend you but you should look closely at the possibility that you could of been a customer that was not contacted by Verse host to move servers ( as i said before im under the impression that there are still customers like this on the server ) and that when Robin pulls the plug you will be starting new threads on WHT about how VerseHost did not pay there bills or that MVN just shut you off after doing more research.

We dont know the full sides of the story to be honest but i do not consider that the email you got would be considered as spam just for the fact that your FILES are still on there HARDWARE so it solicitored mail.

If i noticed a customer had 500 domains on server and i could not contact the customer for a billing issue or they refused to pay i would email them and let them know they have a chance to move to us or move on either way we would never recover the lost funds that are owed by the person who dumped the box.

Regards
Phillip

Originally posted by savageghost
The part that is confusing me is that it appears, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the server that did not receive payment is not the same server as the one that the client info came off of.

Is that true, or false?

I'm SERIOUSLY breaking my no reply rule I made :) But this issue has gotten off track and I made mention of it just a min. ago in another reply. When a person has multiple servers they still have ONE account with us. Just because you pay for one and not for the other doesn't mean that your account is in good standing.

But we're getting off topic I agree. I was accused of spamming someone randomly. I proved that it was not random nor spam. That's the main point at hand.

And it upsets me that David and I have to exchange harsh words. Our business relationship was excellent until we discovered he hadn't paid for his server and even then it didn't concern me as he was an excellent customer..... the kind of host that if I myself needed an account I would have bought from him.

I really don't understand why he rationalized that because it was more than 3 months that we didn't catch his Paypal subscription not working as intended that he didn't have to pay for something he used.

Robin, I was not trying to infer anything nor further the accusation. I was just confused about which server this was dealing with. I understand they have one account regardless of the number of servers, but somewhere in this thread I thought I saw David mention that the people contacted were not the ones that were on the abandoned server.

That's the part that threw me off and I was just looking for clarification. I wasn't accusing you of any wrong doing.

I agree with your intention to try and contact the customers that were still on the abandoned server as we see all to often what happens when servers or companies just "disappear".

And not to drag this even further off topic, but what is it lately with people thinking just because the didn't get a bill, they are not required to make the payment? If you used the service, you pay for the service, invoice or not. You always knew you owed the money.

First of all, Choppy, what I do with my customers is my own business. My dedicated server provider shouldn't make a decision for me and "save" my customers even if there was a problem. That is my responsibility and not his. To answer your questions:
1) Who in their right mind would leave customer data on a server they cancelled? Well, I'm sorry, but I've never had a problem with a vendor stealing data from my server before since they usually format the server immediately or soon. The server was unaccessible so even if I wanted to delete the data, I could not.
2) Why would you have not told or moved the customers already before you even cancelled the server? I did! Customers who wanted to continue service after MyVirtualNet's horrible downtimes and unresponsiveness were moved promptly. The ones that were left over were users that chose not to move or wanted to leave their site there.

Now, regarding the billing problem -- after looking at it, what he had done was set the term for payments to something like 11 months isntead of 1 month. I've never seen that transaction except after the first time and this is why.

I understand that running dedicated servers is not an easy job and is not cheap, as you said, Choppy. We've opened two datacenters since we left MyVirtualNet including one in our own building. However, past billing mistakes that I've made where we've underbilled the customer, I would not blame them later on and expect them to pay it.

Originally posted by savageghost


That's the part that threw me off and I was just looking for clarification. I wasn't accusing you of any wrong doing.



I know you wasn't.... I understood what you were asking.



And not to drag this even further off topic, but what is it lately with people thinking just because the didn't get a bill, they are not required to make the payment? If you used the service, you pay for the service, invoice or not. You always knew you owed the money.

I'm not sure myself.

Well it looks like the tone of this thread is starting to become a little less hostile, I guess its safe to offer a comment .....

Its too bad it takes a public tongue lashing in a WHT forum to get disagreeing parties talking. I'm convinced this whole thread could have been resolved long before now if EVERYONE involved had continued to try to communicate.

Cheers
Jeff

Dave,

I still believe you should pay for what you used :) Since you have two datacenters and all now, its not as if you cant afford it.

And your customer data is your responsibility not the vendors as you stated, if its your responibility why leave it on the server and wait for it to be formated?

If there was accounts still on the server taking bandwidth i would look into it also.

Regards
Phillip

Originally posted by dside443
If you're really questioning my intentions, search my previous posts regarding MyVirtualNet. I've always praised them and Robin about how great, responsive, etc. they are because I did enjoy their services.
Originally posted by dside443
I did! Customers who wanted to continue service after MyVirtualNet's horrible downtimes and unresponsiveness were moved promptly.
I can't tell if they're great and responsive or horrible and unresponsive. Go figure.

Regarding billing (because the "spamming issue" is an entirely different subject)... I don't know if there are any cases on late billing or mistakes, etc., however one of you two might want to look it up. I'm pretty sure that, "You made a mistake so I don't owe you" isn't in there, but I haven't checked to see what is.

If I were you Robin, I'd send David a bill for the full amount (I wouldn't bother with 50%). If he doesn't pay it, sue him in court for the amount plus any and all additional fees allowed by law. Alternatively, send it off to a collection agency.

Originally posted by dside443
Customers who wanted to continue service after MyVirtualNet's horrible downtimes and unresponsiveness were moved promptly.



That's why we asked, repeatedly months before any of the negative issues arose to change your IP's that we provided to you to get you off of Cogent only. We didn't have horrible downtimes. We had Cogent problems. We fixed those problems by going to non Cogent bandwidth.

Originally posted by dside443
However, past billing mistakes that I've made where we've underbilled the customer, I would not blame them later on and expect them to pay it.

You have used their services without paying it. So why should get his services for free ? It's Myvirtualnet's responsibility to bill you, but it's yours aswell.
Robin offered you a VERY fair deal of a 50% discount to the total fee, which is a good deal imho.

What would you do if you leased a dedicated server to someon - they add clients to it - they then pull the pin?

(1). Reformat the server.
(2). Contact those people on the server and make arrangements with them.

I do believe that (2) would be illegal in the UK - it's called the Data Protection Act.

I don't think this was a spam email. It seems he was contacting you, although with the intent of getting a sale, he did address you (or a particular group) personally. I guess this is argueable.

Originally posted by Asci
I understand all that and if he really did own a server I was on it would actually be commendable. But I AM NOT ON A SERVER HE OWNS. The only server I have data on that I do not own myself is hosted at RackShack and not at myvritualnet.net. The ONLY way he could of gotten that e-mail is from harvesting my e-mail from the whois database.

Okay, but you said you WERE for 'a couple months' at some point.


So which is it? Which is true? Were you with Versehost on that machine or not? You stated before that you were, so why would you now go back to this 'harvesting' thing?

Between Dave and Robin, there seems to be an interesting arguement, but it seems to me that your spam theory is a bit on the ridiculous side.

Originally posted by Andrew
[B]So which is it? Which is true? Were you with Versehost on that machine or not?
Yes, I was a VerseHost client on a machine (some 8 months ago) that apparently was at MVN.

You stated before that you were, so why would you now go back to this 'harvesting' thing? The e-mail address he sent his sales pitch to was never hosted on his server. He got the e-mail address directly from the Whois Database.

Between Dave and Robin, there seems to be an interesting arguement, but it seems to me that your spam theory is a bit on the ridiculous side. If you get a sales pitch from a company you have never heard of let alone directly done business with, what would you call it?

So you're actually maintaining that this is some sort of coincidence that he happened to harvest your address from whois records, while you also just happened to be a versehost client from way back?

It's not possible at all that your email was on file as a contact for Versehost? Not even a little bit possible?

What would I call it? For sure I'd call it not worth getting in this much of a snit over. Now Dave, on the other hand, has real reason to be pissed. You can hit a delete button and be done with it. You CHOSE to rile yourself up about it. Dave, on the other hand, regardless of his payment arguement, had his/your privacy breeched by MVN. THAT is something to get upset over. If you get equally upset over a single email, you need some fresh air.

Originally posted by Andrew
[B]So you're actually maintaining that this is some sort of coincidence that he happened to harvest your address from whois records, while you also just happened to be a versehost client from way back?
I understand that what Robin admits to doing is going through the server and he found my domain on it at which point he did a whois and got the contact information from the Registrant information listed in the whois.

It's not possible at all that your email was on file as a contact for Versehost? Not even a little bit possible?
Correct, it is not possible. Not even a little bit possible. I have never used that e-mail address anywhere but in my domain name registration.

You can hit a delete button and be done with it. You CHOSE to rile yourself up about it. Dave, on the other hand, regardless of his payment arguement, had his/your privacy breeched by MVN. Wait, so Dave can be upset if his and his clients privacy is violated but his clients can't get upset? Am I missing something here?

No you aren't missing something. You got an email. You should complain about it for at least 5 more pages.

I'm not going to argue whether or not Dave's (and his clients') privacy was violated (that you can decide for yourself), however if one were of the opinion that he and his clients' privacy were violated, *that* seems to be a bigger issue than you getting an email. I think 1,000 people polled out of 1,000 would agree with that.

The notion of privacy seems a bit lost when one is on a shared server, which isn't even owned by the person you bought services from. Do I go through the files of sites that are on servers that I run? Yep. Are some of those sites clients of clients? Yep. If one of the clients failed to pay, would I consider emailing those clients and letting them know that the end is near and the server was about to be pulled? I might.

Privacy? Two words... GOT ROOT?

Originally posted by Chicken
You got an email. You should complain about it for at least 5 more pages.

Very true, I suppose I have taken this issue a bit too far. The issue of the e-mail is definately dead. Could a mod please close this thread as it has gotten way off topic and no longer serves a useful purpose?


Privacy? Two words... GOT ROOT? Quite true, I realize that alot more than I did a year ago.

Thanks,

Closed by request.