Hello,

We are in the planning stage of developing our own control panel and backend for when we leave Alabanza. This control panel will have all the features plus some that Alabanza doesn't have. The backend will also have most of the features, though not all at first. It will probably lack some of the reporting and the ability to control multiple servers from one DSM but the billing and instant signup features will be there.

What I am wondering is if other hosts would be interested in this? If we start developing it just for our servers then it will be hard to change it for distribution. This will just be the software, we will not be hosting servers or providing support for the entire server like Alabanza does (this is why I think they have major support problems). The program will be written for Red Hat machines in Perl and will use MySQL and Qmail. This means you can upgrade MySQL, PHP, Apache, ect. without worrying about it breaking the control panel.

We have contacts with a lot of off-shore programmers so getting it developed will not be a problem... We would just like to see if there is a commercial interest for this type of software solution or if most companies like the combination of hosting/server/software that Alabanza and VDI provide. Also, any suggestions or changes for the control panel or backend.

Scott

I would be interested in this.
Was looking at plesk but open to others

Originally posted by james:
I would be interested in this.
Was looking at plesk but open to others

Believe me... It will be 100 times better then Plesk. We use to use Plesk but were very disappointed with it.

Scott

scottlaw,

I saw the Plesk demo and its alright but too limited, but I like Alabanza ones...

What missing is that:

1) No sub domain setup
2) No STMP Access
3) Setup FTP users account
4) Setup SSL Accts like https://username.yourdomain.com
5) Bandwidth Manager
6) Many CGI Tools
7) Reseller Control Panel (Add,Edit,Delete,Suspsend accounts in real time)

Stuff like that .. That will be a blast!

Releasing as GNU or is it GPL (whatever) would make it a big success, people could contribute to it etc... maybe even put it on sourceforge.net (mySQL latest example). If you did want to make money from this, perhaps have modules that you charge for and other features that cost and maybe tech-support, Sendmail is a good example of this where the core is free however you can get other versions at cost.

Scott,
We'd be interested in talking about it, perhaps co-development or more. We've played around with this for a while and recent events at Alabanza made us think even harder. Contact me if you're interested in partnering/help on this.



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Chris Marks
KBS Web Hosting (http://www.netfronts.com)
http://www.netfronts.com

What do you guys think of www.sphera.com? (http://www.sphera.com?)

plesk does seem limited at this time.

Id be interested in what features people want
in a control panel -
Im part way through developing my own at the moment based on php/mysql http://www.4php.com/images/domain.gif
an example of one screen.
It lets you set up multiple users on a dedicated server -
each user controls -
- their own name servers - using tinydns (set up domains, subdomains, change mx records etc)
- configure virtualhosts on apache servers
- set up proftpd ftp accounts
- set up domains for use with qmail/vmailmgr

I may gpl it, I don't know haven't thought a lot about it- I needed it so I wrote it.

Things I thought may be worthwhile and am working on are -
-editing dns for multiple domains at once(useful for people who park hundreds of domains to sell them)
- letting users create certain number of databases in mysql or postgresql
- much more detailed vhost configuration (let users turn on/off php directives per virtual host or directory)
- compiling/installing apache/php(also mod ssl) through a control panel
- set up of virtal ssl hosts on apache
- configure webalizer conf files by the web

If anyone has ideas of what they would want on a server control interface Id realy like to hear them.

sphera is way too overpriced - $4 per user/month...no way. You're better off with Alabanza at that price.

------------------
Chris Marks
KBS Web Hosting (http://www.netfronts.com)
http://www.netfronts.com

4php,

It sounds like you're off to a good start. A few other things I would like to see is administering a miling program, like Major Domo (along with the MySQL databases you already mentioned), being able to add IP addresses and domains to be blocked to the mail transport program used (spam control, as in writint to sendmail's access file, from which access.db is generated), and a number of other features. Many are already a part of Webmin.

I'd like to see the ability to edit the httpd.conf file for various things, from adding custom 404 pages to others. However, that is of minor concern compared to other, more desirable features.

For sendmail I can't help, Im running qmail and would ruather concentrate on that.
For mailing lists ezmlm would be used, I use vmailmgr(vmailmgr.org) and omail (omil.omnis.ch) for each domains email. The bloke writing omail will plikely be incorporating mailing list control along with the current interface.

For custom 404's etc thats already an option per vhost - it can be pointed to whatever error files you like.

I will be adding every apache option I can to it also.

I think there is a need for a quality control panel that is independent of any particular hosting company, that is affordable (free would be good).

I didn't mean to suggest sendmail as the mail trnaasport program it should work with. I can see why, from a security standpoint, qmail is better. Also, from what I've read, other choices, like ProFTPD instead of WuFTP, sudo (shipped with Red hat 6.2)instead of su, Open SSH isntead of telnet would be better.

Billing of customers (sending invoices by e-mail) would be a nice feature also.

That's not crazy, Chicken. I've read of some control panles that have that feature, they install rpms, so one can add and update programs from the cp. Being able to addthings like a firewall and other security programs (like tripwire) would be helpful.

well its designed so a sendmail module could be added - or other modules too - I just don't know enough(or want to) about sendmail or BIND.

It does uses sudo to carry out some commands needed to be done by root. Billing is a good idea. Ill have to add that.

It may be free haven't decided yet, I just need to make a living somehow - an option is to gpl it and just charge for suport of it.

So I'd probably be insane if I requested that it had everything that it supports included right? One thing I would like is an one stop, easy to use CP that would install everything where it needed to be. If you think qmail is better than sendmail and openSSH over telnet then somehow include it as a total package. This may be overly simplistic, but all-in-one server management in a box seems to work for cobalt, and if you could blow that away (yes, I know others already do this), with a total "this is all you'll ever need" type package, whooooooo.

I think there is a big market for people who don't know what the hell they are doing so to speak. Alabanza might be a good example of this to some degree.

Ok, so this post is probaly pointless (trying to add to a conversation that I really don't know much about). But maybe it will spark some thought to those of you who know what you are doing :)

The features in Webmin could serve as a guide (some of them, at least)http://www.webmin.com/webmin/standard.html I've mentioned a few specific features other than soem basic, obvious ones that any control panel should have, like setting up users, changing mail transport program parameters (qmail), etc.

I think you can overdo an control panel. Sticking to what you need for hosting is the most important part. Webmin gets cluttered once you get numbers like 200 or so domains.

I agree about overdoing it, that's why I said some of the features. How close are you to unveiling your product with MySQL control? My reason for asking is that I'm getting ready to install MyphpAdmin for tha treason and Webmin (for the Major Domo control) I''d be willing to help test it if you like. A few added benefits are that I'am a novice at this part so I would be a good judge of the thoroughness of the instructions, I'm good at writing step by step, thorough instructions myself, and can often explain complex concepts in understandable terms.

Scott,

The market is HUGE. ISP's/people are screaming for a better product than WebMin, Plesk etc... Get a nice design for it too, that will push it further. Be quick as I know several people are thinking of the same.

Sounds like a great idea Scott. I am in the midst of considering Alabanza and found this thread of great interest. Doesn't alabanza offer more than just the software and dedicated server? Do you feel that the right software could pretty much replicate alabanza's offerings?

My biggest questions with Alabanza is security. What happens if you go with alabanza, and you don't like it. Scott, you say that you plan to leave. Is it possible to leave and seemlessly take your customers with you? Won't all their IP addresses get trashed?

In a 2 year deal, $400 a month turning to $800 a month in year 2 means an average of $600 a month. A similar dedicated server with the backup intervals they seem to provide would be around $500 - $550...so while the software is a bit pricey it isn't that bad a deal. Until you reach year 3 and beyond...then it's really pricey.

Also, if one day you don't like Alabanza anymore or you didn't sign up as many customers as you needed to, if you feel any responsibility to your customers, they are up a creek without a host! Or is there a way around this as Scott seems to have found? These are my burning questions...

Hi 4PHP,
I'm in the same boat as you and because I'm a PHP coder as well, maybe we can help each other. Please email me at emusabasic@softhome.net.

I think that the alabanza price is more for the control panel. It is not at all difficult to replicate Alabanza. It is just a clever combination of bandwidth, servers, control panel and marketing :)

However the profits they are making out of it - they deserve it. But what amazed me was that the entire industry not trying to replicate this. Why ?

Also I am not quite inclined towards them for two reasons :
- You get totally dependent on them (very bad for you)
- Their marketing is a bit too agressive (risk ?)

Above this, I found a security hole in their control panel around a year back when I was considering them. I warned one of my friend who went with them ignoring my advice :)

Result : The entire server was hacked four months back putting down 500 premium sites, including some government sites :)

Thats the reason, I dont wanna get too dependent on any host. I am not sure of the security hole. You need to check yourself.

What I found at that time was as such :
If you are logged in the main CP, and I type in the URL of your main CP, I get the complete access to your poor ded server. I put up the matter to them. No response :(. I quit.

So I am taking my time to find out my way :)
I dunno who agrees with me. If you feel the same way.. let me know, I would love to discuss this topic.

Originally posted by talash
It is not at all difficult to replicate Alabanza. It is just a clever combination of bandwidth, servers, control panel and marketing :)

But what amazed me was that the entire industry not trying to replicate this. Why ?


My guess is that it takes time (and time is money) to create a thorough control panel. For obvious reasons, it is something more likely to be done by larger companies. It seems many companies prefer to develop their own (it gets customers accustomed to it and perhaps reluctant to leave based on it) rather than use one like Plesk.

The upside is that it leaves plenty of opportunity for someone to build a better control panel at a better price. It might be better than the many proprietary and the few commercially available control panels out there.

I think you are quite right in the statement that many companies like to retain their proprietary control panel to get customers addicted and retain them :)

But still the extraordinary price by Alabanza for the servers is not totally justified :) just a view :)

It takes a lot of time to develop control panel software _ I've been at it a few months - Sure writing the scripts (php for me) arent a big deal - the scripts themselves aren't complicated - but choosing the right mailserver. ftp server etc etc as well as security considerations take a lot of thought and experimentation.

Testing also takes quite a while - Ive got a few people using mine and wont be actively selling anything for a long time yet.
Any decent control panel software will take thousands to develop. I am suprised though at the number of server admin scripts around. I though there would be a lot more.

Control panels arent an excuse for not learning about apache, qmail php etc etc. I just use it to speed up stuff, and try to make sure my users know the basics too.