is it me, or has vdi service levels completely gone down the toilet? things were atleast bareable a few months ago but for me have been going downhill rapidly. i have one server there for about two years now and was very happy when i first got it. at this point i might as well have it hooked up to a cable modem, to get the same network reliability and tech support. has anyone else been waiting a month for admin issues ot get fixed? any other vdi clients with any input? i need to decide within a week so if i decide to leave i do not have to pay for august. should i stick it out, or just give up?


hp

I can say ever since the upgrades there have been very few network problems I have had at VDI - with the exception of a DoS attack which caused problems. As for technical support, never use it there so can;t comment on that - although I hear they are getting more techs for their helpdesk.

I'd have to agree with Tcoy on this one. They've been pretty rock solid since the upgrades. I've also submitted a few helpdesk tickets, and they've been responded to within 6-12 hours, which is fine for the type of problems they were (very small).

Also another thing, I believe you have to give 30 days notice to leave vdi. Check out the TOS here:
http://www.vdi.net/agreement.html

Might wanna check that one out.;)

hostpolicia We have a professional helpdesk company that does the helpdesk tickets, and we answer our phones. If you have an issue, well you never told me about it.

Are you a VDI cleint or someone else.

hostpolicia : Are you going to get around to telling me who are really are :)

welll..............worldzone a very large webhost is leaving vdi

Never heard of them ,, They are not Direct VDI cleints then.

Originally posted by neha
welll..............worldzone a very large webhost is leaving vdi


correction... i was wrong.. i spoke to carlos.. and Worldzone is leaving because of vdis bad service :(

How did we give bad service on an account we don`t manage ??

Originally posted by William
How did we give bad service on an account we don`t manage ??


Well, the entire thing of bad service started when the new oc3 wasnt installed on time and stuff.. you know the story... so, it was bad service from VDI right?

What was quite a while ago, so if they are on that issue still well, nothing i can do to make them happy...

Originally posted by William
What was quite a while ago, so if they are on that issue still well, nothing i can do to make them happy...

true.

<< Well, the entire thing of bad service started when the new oc3 wasnt installed on time and stuff.. you know the story... so, it was bad service from VDI right? >>

Not really...try going back 2-3 years...same problems then, same problems now probably.
Can't speak for their service for the past 3 months though...cause we had enough an finally left.
Hopefully things have gotten better for their remaining clients.


Sean R.
BurstNET

Originally posted by BurstNET
<< Well, the entire thing of bad service started when the new oc3 wasnt installed on time and stuff.. you know the story... so, it was bad service from VDI right? >>

Not really...try going back 2-3 years...same problems then, same problems now probably.
Can't speak for their service for the past 3 months though...cause we had enough an finally left.
Hopefully things have gotten better for their remaining clients.


Sean R.
BurstNET

Just a little advice, Sean, R (tm) (R), I'd practice what you preach. There's no need to make such a comment, as you said yourself when people do such about Burst. No reason to drag up past problems, and that's what you're talking about here. Indeed, by your statement, let's all hope things improve for everyone, and leave it at that. Cheers.

Hey Tim,

No, when I complain about comments about BurstNET, it is usually because of the person not being a client currently or previously of our firm. If someone was/is such, then they have a right to comment about our service (within reason). As BurstNET was previously a VDI client, we have first hand knowledge of their service.

Sean R.
BurstNET

If I can ask, when did you exactly move your servers from Clifton?

May 1st 2001 we moved our servers out of VDI....almost 3 months ago.
We have been running our own data center ever since.
Now that it is done and overwith, and we have been up and running for several months, we definately know we made the right decision leaving VDI...

Sean R.
BurstNET

To me VDI and Burst just reek of small time. They act like WHT and the forums are here to create a soap opera. They put customers down when they complain, they put each other down, and they talk like they are the best thing since sliced bread and have no trouble. BS - no class from either. If it wasn't for CPanel, you guys would be no where. I have yet to see other owners act the way you two do toward each other and your customers.

It kills me, you guys actually believe you do nothing wrong, but you continue to put each other down. Post after post. VDI packed up all the servers, put them in the back of a truck, went to the new data center and found out Qwest wasn't ready. Burst, bad batch of UPS's. Hmmm..

Oh yah, this great race to release the new "CPanel"...tune in tomorrow, same WHT time, same WHT channel. You will soon realize it is about service and support, not software. If more colo's offered CPanel, you would sink faster then the Titanic.

OK, I am done. Sorry if I am the only one who feels this way.

Well I don't know about Cpanel thing or copyrights, i feel like some other firm is arranging things to get his own panel soon.
You may be right about assistance and services, we call them "after-sale" support, it seems to be more important then the sale itself.
I've written this already, most of them sounds like they are making everything by themselves instead to hire people who help them.
I don't know how many servers they own, for sure >150 enough to get a true team so why not do it.
Just my personal feelings, I hope nobody gets offended.

bye

[i]You will soon realize it is about service and support, not software .

hmmm . . .

i agree with UmBillyCord.

but excuse me software (CPanel) plays important role for there existence in this industry. It is software which makes people stuck with burst, vdi and others colos, instead of there bad service or what ever you claim (which i think is not the case). There are many good companies then burst and vdi who provide good support and great uptime with money back guarantees but lacks in good software like Cpanel, which at least keeps them away from me and i think others too.

As per my knowledge burst and vdi are new in this business in compare to big guys, so it will take them some time to improve there services. specially to burst as Sean, R (tm) (R), says that they have just open new data center on may 01 2001. but i think they will improve with time.

Sean, R (tm) (R), you must improve design of your web site. Take a look at addr.com new design and get some new designer for your web site. Also there are some broken links on your web site at policy agreement page.

<< Burst, bad batch of UPS's. Hmmm.. >>

And this is what you have come with bad to say about us?
Did we manufactuer the hardware? NO.
Did you ever by something in your life that was defective? YES.

It happens...especially with the amount of equipment we buy...something is bound to be defective.We handled the situation pretty darn well..replacing it ASAP...with IN STOCK backups....

<< no class from either. >>

Yep...and you have met us to determine such a thing...just this morning right?
Puh-lease....If you had ever met us in person, you would NEVER make such a comment.
BurstNET is not a bunch of 16 year old children...we have an older staff, a classy staff...stocked with college degrees and plenty of couth.


You are right about one thing though...WHT is just a very tiny % of the market....


<< As per my knowledge burst and vdi are new in this business >>

Not really, BurstNET has been around 3-4 times as long as RackSpace and Dialtone actually....and in the hosting business 1-2 years longer than them as well...
We were just unable to grow as large as them, as quickly, due to situations with our co-lo provider.

<< There are many good companies then burst and vdi who provide good support and great uptime with money back guarantees >>


BurstNET provides full 30 day money back guarantee...and we were one of the first companies to offer this in the industry years ago....many companies following suit afterwards.

Our uptime is nothing short of phenominal in our new Data Center.
We have more than proven ourselves in the past 3 months since it opened.

Our primary concern right now is support...we are just growing so fast since the opening of our NOC, we cannot interview and hire admins fast enough...We are trying our best to keep up with support, and have been improving tremendously as every week goes by we feel.

<< I have yet to see other owners act the way you two do toward each other >>

You did not experience what we did the past 3+ years

<< they talk like they are the best thing since sliced bread >>

OK, and what companies are offering better speed, uptime, support, software, and pricing these days than what we are offering?....very very very few.....


<< To me VDI and Burst just reek of small time >>


Define small time....
Do you have any idea how expensive it is to build a quality data center?
BurstNET is probably one of the top 10% largest hosting companies in the world....
Of course the AT&T, Exodus, Digex, Intermedia companies are all waaaay out of our league....but most hosting companies have clients only in the hundreds....not thousands....
BurstNET is anything but small time.....we are a multi-million dollar company at this point...and are currently posed to gain much market share the way things are headed.


OK, that is my rant for the day.
You'll excuse me if I went a bit overboard, as I am on 18+ hours straight of work right now and am due much needed sleep.



Sean R.
BurstNET

<< As per my knowledge burst and vdi are new in this business >>

Not really, BurstNET has been around 3-4 times as long as RackSpace and Dialtone actually....and in the hosting business 1-2 years longer than them as well...
We were just unable to grow as large as them, as quickly, due to situations with our co-lo provider.


You haven't quote full sentence. I said you are new as compare to big guys like verio, exodus, colossus and rackspace etc . .
as per my knowledge. of course every body was born someday. The quote is like this

"As per my knowledge burst and vdi are new in this business in compare to big guys"

BurstNET provides full 30 day money back guarantee...and we were one of the first companies to offer this in the industry years ago....many companies following suit afterwards.

Our uptime is nothing short of phenominal in our new Data Center.
We have more than proven ourselves in the past 3 months since it opened.


yeah and that does not include, hardware failure, backbone failure, third party failure, Software bugs/flaws, DNS issues,"Failure or error of any BurstNET™ monitoring or measurement system", war, insurrection, sabotage, embargo, "Acts of God" (ie...fire, flood <imagine servers with life jackets - just a thought> , earthquake, tornado, etc...), strike or other labor disturbance and bla bla bla failure and money back guarantee subject to sole discretion of burstnet sorry BurstNET™. that also my be partial or some thing like that and not full as mention on your policy agreement page . . .


http://www.burst.net/policy/sla.shtml as on date of this post.
"Partial refunds for partial downtime" is our standard policy. In extreme circumstances, BurstNET™ may distribute full month credits, but this is dealt with on a case by case basis. Details on how credit amounts are calculated can be found below.


http://www.burst.net/policy/sla.shtml as on date of this post.
BurstNET™ will issue a credit to Client for network/server outages/downtime occurring during any calendar month that are reported by Client to BurstNET™ and confirmed by BurstNET's™ measurement reporting. Such credit will be equal to one day’s worth (1/30th) of the monthly fees paid by Client, (for all service fees paid if network outage, or specific affected service fees paid if individual server downtime) multiplied by each hour (or portion thereof rounded to nearest next hour) of the cumulative duration of such outage/downtime.


Who cares for $13.33333 ($400 / 30 = $13.33333333) say having $400 server for 1 day refund. All it really matter is loss of goodwill which client face due to mission critical applications.

Any way all looks good on policy agreement page for legal matters (which you should and you have) but you should not make such comments on public forms regarding your 30 days UN-UNIQUE policy.


OK, that is my rant for the day.
You'll excuse me if I went a bit overboard, as I am on 18+ hours straight of work right now and am due much needed sleep.


:) :o :wavey:
Ladies and Gentleman's:

and the award for the most hard working guy on the planet called earth goes to "Sean, R" (tm) (R),
:D

hey, but i am also sitting on this desk from last 11+ hours. (-7 then sean, i will work hard to break his record).
:bawling:

good luck sean and sorry i am in good mood today. anyway you are interesting guy. he he he . . .

"BurstNET™" and quote "The Speed the Internet Travels™" are registered Trade Mark of burst.net. They are used for information purpose only in this post.

:D

ERROR 404 - NOT FOUND
You tried to access: http://www.burst.net/policy/contract.shtml
Return to: http://www.burst.net/policy.shtml
or
Please choose a new destination:

:love:

Tap tap tap tap tap ... Tsk tsk ..

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=vdi.net

uptime...

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=on&mode_w=on&site=burst.net

<< money back guarantee subject to sole discretion of burstnet sorry BurstNET™. that also my be partial or some thing like that and not full as mention on your policy agreement page . . . >>

You have no first hand knowledge of our refund policy, so don't comment on it.
As a matter of fact we have honored the 30 day refund policy for the most ridiculous of reasons clients give us.
The only time we have not honored it is if the customer was spamming or hacking.
Search the forums and you'll find comments of people that received timely refunds they didn't expect.

<< You haven't quote full sentence. >>

The answer would be the same with or without those two words.
We have been in business longer than even "most" of these these "big companies"
We started in 1991.

<< Who cares for $13.33333 ($400 / 30 = $13.33333333) say having $400 server for 1 day refund. All it really matter is loss of goodwill which client face due to mission critical applications. >>

Read the policy again...
"You haven't quote full sentence"
It states:
"(1/30th) of the monthly fees paid by Client, (for all service fees paid if network outage, or specific affected service fees paid if individual server downtime) multiplied by each hour"

Be happy we have an SLA...as most hosting companies do not...


<< 30 days UN-UNIQUE policy >>

It is unique.
1. We were one of the first companies to offer such...many years back.
2. Not many companies offer such on setups fees as well. Due a search in this same forum on money back guarantees offered by hosting companies INCLUDING SETUP FEES, and you'll find a long thread that shows only a rare few.


<< Just for Kicks,, realy does`nt mean anyting >>

Correct, it "realy does`nt mean anyting".

1. Their software is incorrect in many ways...including showing a current uptime on our burst.net sever of 38 days.....when I just logged in and checked and it shows 45 days.
2. We have had servers that have not been down/rebooted since the day we opened our data center. Sure it is only approx 90 days...but it cannot be any longer than that for us even if we tried because that was the time we packed up all our servers and moved fully out of VDI.
3. It doesn't include anything about network uptime, which is even more important....ie...it shows nothing about anyone's 12 hour and 24 hour downtimes in the past.
4. It tests one single server....not alot of them...who cares how often we reboot our own machine.
5. Who really cares how often a server is rebooted....it is the overal uptime that matters. Would you rather have a server rebooted 10 times a month with 99.9% uptime OR a server down once a month for 98.5% uptime. For the most part we have met out 99.5% uptime guarantee in our new facility.


Sean R.
BurstNET

You just got promoted to Tim G Jr, relax and it was just for a kick, no pun intended.

I have have been reading a lot of back post you have mentioned about VDI, and I`m really tired of hearing about how VDI slowed down your business and have seen that you even blamed us for a servers going down.

We had a T1 when we had the Cyber cafe / Computer store, never intended to even have a Noc ect..

Burst and liquidweb came under Speehosting, they went out of business ect.. abd VDI took it over.

I think it was about 5 - 8 servers between you and a few other clients.

Now VDI has 650 ish servers, today after you have left 3 months ago, so please stop blaming me about growth. We never even payed for an advertisment nor even had a decent site. If your a good noc things will fall into place.

Could you please stop saying VDI did this to you, did that ? When we did a lot for you while you were here, and don`t even want to hear that we took your clients.

anyways good NOCing .. and good luck..

LOL you two are very funny arguing.

PS: Bill, don't forget #10 :D

Originally posted by William
You just got promoted to Tim G Jr, relax and it was just for a kick, no pun intended.

HEY! I resemble that remark! :-)

We deal with VDI daily and have quite a few servers there and for the price you wont beat their support/service. We can call and talk to someone about whatever problem we're having with a server and most of the time someone is there right then who can help us out. Listening to comments about them from someone who is a direct competitor who makes it a point to go after their customers, does not give you an accurate depiction of their services. The fact that Burst constantly makes it a point to blame their problems/slow growth on VDI or anyone else they can think of makes it pretty clear that they are fairly insecure with the level of service they really do provide. Do a search over the past 2 months on these forums for complaints directed at VDI or Burst made by actual customers, and you can get a good idea how things are at either place currently.

-Brendan

<< Listening to comments about them from someone who is a direct competitor who makes it a point to go after their customers >>

Try the other way around....
One of the primary reasons we left VDI was because they took/accepted/stole/removed/obtained (however you want to term/state it...) several of our largest clients. We lost over $10000 of revenue per month because of this, and who knows how much these clients would have been spending at this point in time. Some of the clients in question are some of the most well known hosting companies around these parts, that originally were BurstNET clients...prior to arrangements being made for them to purchase directly from VDI. If you were in that situation, I highly doubt you would be happy about it either....especially from a company that states "Hosting for Hosting Companies". bbrader, you don't know the full details of everything that went on behind the scenes with BurstNET and VDI, so please don't make assumptions. VDI may provide you with great service....but our company, and others, have left for a reason.

Sean R.
BurstNET

Brendan, wasn't Hostrocket asking its customers on your forum about what the customers thought about staying at VDI or moving? I remember reading them. I am glad you are humming along now, but you had serious issues with VDI and uptime not too long ago.

Some of the clients in question are some of the most well known hosting companies around these parts

Who are these host???? And what parts???

Hey, Sean, did I ever tell you that I invented the question mark?

This isn't an attack or anything, but simply a point of observation. If your service was so wonderful, why did you lose clients to another company? If a company offers great service, they simply don't lose clients to other company's, unless another company was able to offer them better deals and the same or better service -- not just better deals. That said, it would be in poor practice to steal client's from your own client, but do you have proof of this? You've continually complained about people knocking other company's (well, actually just your company -- and by people that did have real experience with being a former or current client of yours), yet continue to do this yourself to others, especially VDI.

If you have a legitimate reason, I personally don't mind -- but am bothered that it's okay for you to dish out, but not take. I won't get into that, but I will say that everyone that complained about your company, did show reasons and proof -- most of the time. You, however, have accused VDI of many things. Stealing, basically of sabotage, etc., without any proof and sometimes little to no relevance.

Also, accusing them any faults of your company -- keep in mind, you were with VDI for a very long time, supported and stood up for them -- so it stands to reason it couldn't have been that bad, if you were there for so long and standing up for them saying they are a good company. Why, if it was so bad, did you wait such a very, very, very long time to move or do anything about it? Knowing you're on a bad company for so long, instead of moving so long before, and you say you did everything you could to maintain the quality of your service? That is simply not logical. If these things happened, especially to the degree you claim, it only makes you appear guilty of gross neglect, lack of actual concern or quality of your service for your clients, if you stayed on knowing this -- especially for so long.

Everyone knows and saw the sudden turn around in you supporting VDI over a very short period of time, and you're obviously bitter nd spiteful about it. However, do you have any proof of the reasons you say? As it stands, I'm simply confused by the fact that you are making all these claims about them occurring for such a long duration, yet you didn't do anything but support and rave about them. This obviously makes me question these claims, as it is highly illogical.

Really, I don't know how much more of this "We were the first to (fill in the blank)" crap any longer. This is irrelevant to what has happened, is happening and continues to happen -- of various natures, nothing I'll mention to have you defend or comment on, since it's not relevant (so don't worry). You might have been in business, technically, as the name 'Burst' even, with your special slogan and whatnot, whooptie-do, but you were not doing anything along those lines back then as you are now, and as they were (before you) back then. Even if you had a small hosting company called Burst in 91', they were doing the real hosting on a larger scale before you. Technically, they were in this business before you were.

I've seen a lot of company's that did BBS's, small hosting, shell accounts, MUD's, IRC, computer sales and whatnot far before '91 and didn't break into the hosting market until only a few years ago. Some are large, some aren't. Some offered the things you mention, some didn't. But, who cares? None of it is unique or special. Claim it all you like, because you've ran some type of computer related site since '91, but that's completely irrelevant. Please, oh, please, oh please just STOP comparing yourself to large company's or saying you are in the same league or even worse, to claim you're "in the top 10%". This is really getting out of hand and completely ridiculous! I'm offended that you even compare yourself to the likes of DI or VDI for that matter. You are no where near that, and they aren't huge.

It's okay that you're not big or that big, there's nothing wrong with that. However, you are not and you need to deal with it. Making claims about how much better, bigger, is getting old. You're not. Again, it's okay that you're not, maybe one day you will be, but right now you're not! NOT! It's great to have pride, support and confidence in your company, more power to you, but these claims are getting to be too ridiculous and an insult to our knowledge as web hosts to be reading that trash. I'm not trying to be brutal here, but this reeks of truehosting type of promotion and defenses. This is A: Not relevant. B: Not true.

Go make your company a real (big) success, instead of sitting here ranting on about how it is now, because it's not, NOT , That's not a competitor cutting you down, by the way, it's simply getting old. You're not a guy in his garage, but you're not in the same league as a lot of these hosts you mention. Hmm, maybe you were joking then? We're not stupid, we know what's going on, what you run, a good idea of the amount of servers you have at your data center. Also, a good idea about your client base. You're not in the poor house and you're not new or tiny, but that doesn't make you a huge success either just because you want to compare yourselves to other hosts that participate at WHT of all places, for goodness sakes!

It's a big world out there, Sean, and while you say people have no experience or knowledge of Burst, you are not entirely correct, and that holds true of the company's you're comparing yourself with. Let's just say, you have a lot of growing to do, both in attitude and in clients and lines before you should start spouting this nonsense to all of us here that know better. Impress people with real things, not because you think it makes you sound better -- and if you truly believe what you say, you direly need to do some research.

Just a wake-up call! Good luck, feel free to comment like I expect you will and assume this was an attack -- but I told you this because maybe it'll save you from looking the way you do to me and others, to more people. Take it for what you will though. Sorry everyone, I just can't take reading this anymore and for the sake of accuracy, I felt compelled to comment... but hey, what do [B]I know, right!? That's all I'm going to comment about this issue. Cheers! :-)

I am willing to pay someone to read Tim Greer's post for me and send me a synopsis. Any takers????

:D

Originally posted by UmBillyCord
I am willing to pay someone to read Tim Greer's post for me and send me a synopsis. Any takers????

:D

Ah, surely you're not that slow of a reader.

Okay, here's my post in it's essence:

Tim is cool.

Tim rules the world.

Tim owns you all.

You should bow before Tim.

Tim, Tim, Tim, blah, blah, blah, Tim.

Tim invented the question mark.

Go back to the beginning, repeat the steps, saying them to yourself every morning and you will be rewarded in your after life.

PS: Tim.

Ah, surely you're not that slow of a reader.

Actually I am. :( I was educated in Wyoming.

But I think I figured it out. You invented the question mark. Do you also acuse chestnuts of being lazy?

Originally posted by UmBillyCord


But I think I figured it out. You invented the question mark. Do you also acuse chestnuts of being lazy?

See, you know exactly what's going on here. Don't even get me started on the burlap sack and the shaved... Yes, breathtaking, indeed. *L*

<< Hey, Sean, did I ever tell you that I invented the question mark?>>

really? I though you invented the answer, not the question. :-)

I don't care if we provided zero support...our upstream shold not be soliciting/accepting our clients.
Can you imagine if Alabanza started going after their client's clients directly? !!!!
What proof do you need? One day the host with us, and the next day they stiff us with a large bill, and we find out they are still at VDI with IP blocks directly from VDI...and we see their servers inside the NOC room, and we get inside knowledge that they are direct with VDI from VDI staff members themselves!

<< You've continually complained about people knocking other company's (well, actually just your company -- and by people that did have real experience with being a former or current client of yours), yet continue to do this yourself to others, especially VDI. >>

Not sure your logic here...
If you are a client, or have been a client, of a company.. you have first hand knowledge and some right to commen about them. If you have never been a client, then you don't...simple enough. BurstNET does not comment about random hosts...we are here commenting about VDI...and we were a VDI client for a very long time...so we know first hand how their service/operation runs.

<< Why, if it was so bad, did you wait such a very, very, very long time to move or do anything about it? >>

Because they basically had us locked in. They kept raising prices on us, so we couldn't afford to pay our bills to them. They of course would not release servers unless you had you bill paid in full. Plus we were always worried that they would sabotage our servers. As it turns out, I will state that they were very helpful with our move, and didn't cause us any problems whatsoever. Remarkably though, many servers that used to crash daily in the VDI NOC, seem to have quite good uptimes in our facility....Also, the factthat CPanel was not available to us outside of VDI...even though we were using it (Cpanel 1.0) prior to VDI even being involved with it.
The point is they made it very hard for us to leave the facility, and the first opportunity that allowed us to get out..we jumped at.


<< Please, oh, please, oh please just STOP comparing yourself to large company's or saying you are in the same league or even worse, to claim you're "in the top 10%". >>


You obviously have not looked at the profit/loss statements of the "big guys" lately.
BurstNET actually makes more money (profit) then many of them.
Many of them loose money every quarter...and have been doing so for years.
Exodus, RackSpace, Interland, the list goes on and on....

And we are definately within the top 10% largest hosting companies in the world.
The majority of hosting companies are mom and pop operations with less than 100 clients.
Any company doing over $1,000,000.00 in revenue a year is in the top 10%.
And check out the actual revenue figures of Dialtone & RackSpace, etc....you'll find they are not all as big as you think.



As far as how VDI is better than BurstNET...I don't feel there is a comparison whatsoever.
BurstNET has never had a 24 hour downtime, a 12 hour downtime, etc...
BurstNET has never raised prices on our clients EVER.
BurstNET actually has more technical staff currently than VDI has ever had.
You obviously have never met the VDI staff in person...although nice guys...you are in for a rude awakening. (Bill's grammar and spelling alone should tell you about their management)
The majority of the BurstNET staff has bachelor's degrees.
Our prices blow theirs away currently...
We don't take client's away from out reseller's/server clients....no matter what....period.

How do you explain all the hosting companies that have left VDI recently, and/or are planning on leaving...
You think that is just coincidence?

We have built in 3 months, what VDI has taken years to build.
At the present rate, BurstNET will outgrow VDI within 4-5 months.
We have already grown approx 66% revenue since we opened our new facility.
We have about 200 servers in our facility now, compared to 45 when we opened.
We have two large server providers moving in within the next 1-2 months as well.
We have our first advertising campaign starting in 2-3 months which should skyrocket sales.

BurstNET has been in business 10+ years. I for one would feel safer knowing my provider isn't going bankrupt/closing any time in the near future...as many providers are or heading towards.


Sean R.
BurstNET

Many of them loose money every quarter...and have been doing so for years. Exodus, RackSpace, Interland, the list goes on and on.... Not true. Rackspace.com is in the black and has been there for quite a while. Interland is in the black and has been there for quite a while. And the list goes on and on! :)

Exodus on the other hand, well that is a pen of a different color.

You'd think 10,000 characters would be enough... Nonetheless, my post was too long, so here's part I. :-)

Originally posted by BurstNET
<< Hey, Sean, did I ever tell you that I invented the question mark?>>

really? I though you invented the answer, not the question. :-)



Blah...


I don't care if we provided zero support...our upstream shold not be soliciting/accepting our clients.


I don't agree with that completely, personally. And, I say this specifically as a personal option, not anyone's actions, policies or whatnot. However, I don't see why an upstream provider should have to flat out refuse any client, simply because they are on a client of yours. Pushing your ideas, services and convining them, helping them leave, etc., is one thing. But suppose you have a client that's not violating any terms of service, etc., but you know they aren't a great host. You're not going to kick them off your network, if they aren't committing fraud or doing anything wrong, just because they aren't a great company.

That said, and not saying the client didn't think you were a great company, whatever, but if a client isn't happy at your host, and they came to VDI (maybe VDI didn't know they were a client, maybe they did), I don't see why VDI has no options and has to refuse to help them or help them get a service that maybe they didn't feel they were getting from you. It depends on the circumstances. Did you sign anything with VDI or come to some agreement, that if a client was definitely leaving Burst and were going to go with anyone else, that VDI still couldn't take them? If so, why? I mean, as long as no tactics were practiced to get their existing business and they came to you and were leaving Burst anyway, what's the problem with that? Granted, I'd try and convince them to keep on my client's service, but I'd also try and help my client to get their stuff together or do whatever needs to be done to help them really keep the client, not just give my client a free sales pitch to keep their client, if I saw or knew they had a reason to not host with them. However, failing that, I don't, personally (just as my personal thoughts) see anything wrong with it otherwise.


Can you imagine if Alabanza started going after their client's clients directly? !!!!


I can imagine that being wrong for any of them. Aren't you yourself now hosting client's that came from VDI, that you weren't hosting before? Let me also mention, that some of these people owe VDI a lot of money and left owing it to come to you. However, are we talking about going after, or just assuming it was poor business on VDI's part, simply because they accepted them?


What proof do you need?


Obviously that VDI went after them and initiated it, not just because they accepted them. That's all I am asking for and I think you'd have to agree that it's reasonable. I'm simply saying, that you've said a lot, and haven't provided any evidence to show it's true. I never said it was or wasn't true. However, I did mention that it seemed odd that you were on them for so long, if you knew enough to prove it. It's just off.


One day the host with us, and the next day they stiff us with a large bill, and we find out they are still at VDI with IP blocks directly from VDI...


Refer to above, that might not be relevant. There's no reason why a NOC should have to flat out refuse service to someone if they maybe feel the client wasn't being serviced or helped by their client that hosted the person. Again, I never said that was the case, but it usually is when people switch. Also, again, you have hosted people when you moved to your own NOC, that were VDI client's that owed (and still do) VDI money. So, is that pay back, or is it just okay for you to do? I'm not being sarcastic, but maybe you didn't know, and maybe VDI didn't know the client didn't give them a sob story and didn't know they still owed you.


and we see their servers inside the NOC room, and we get inside knowledge that they are direct with VDI from VDI staff members themselves!


You weren't clear on what you mean here. I wasn't every trying to say that I didn't think VDI knew, if they were switching the client over to them, being they are in your cage or something... but if the client is leaving anyway, why turn them down? You see, it depends on the circumstances. I'm not defeninding VDI here, I just don't see any immediate evidence that VDI would even need defending. No matter the reason, I can see why you're so spiteful about it, but maybe there was a good reason. I don't know, I don't claim to know. I'm simply saying there are sometimes valid and acceptable reasons -- at least to some of us, that would depend on the situation, of course. I haven't seen any proof to that effect.


<< You've continually complained about people knocking other company's (well, actually just your company -- and by people that did have real experience with being a former or current client of yours), yet continue to do this yourself to others, especially VDI. >>

Not sure your logic here...


Just exactly what I said.


If you are a client, or have been a client, of a company.. you have first hand knowledge and some right to commen about them.


Really, then why did you jump on my case a few times, about making general comments about what you've said or done on this board, which is even archived, acting like I had no right, based on the fact that I can't possibly make such a judgment call, form an opinion, etc. based on your posts, because I've never been on a server of Burst? Also, I have, many times, I've done work for people you host, I've seen and worked on the server and I was literally a Burst client long ago. Of course, then people say "Well, that was long ago, things change", but either way, logically or by your rules, I'd have had a reason. Still though, I did have a reason and this was a huge issue, and it wasn't an attack either, just general comments about your choice of employee's, etc. Nothing bad about you or Burst, but look what happened.

You, however, are here, basically under the same conditions I was, commenting about some company, and not providing any reason or proof, beyond what you simply say -- without it being a general opinion, but flat out claims. I just don't see how this can't be seen as contradictive, or as if you think you have some special rights other's don't. Mind you, it's okay, I don't care about before, or not, it just bothered me that you were commenting poorly about VDI, when you've said many times that you don't engage in that sort of thing.. yet here you are. I hope that's more clear.


If you have never been a client, then you don't...simple enough.


Well, many of us don't believe that's entirely true. Since, people don't need to be a client to have an opinion or knowledge of a person or company's attitude or service. Be it we see it on the boards, in a support ticket, sale call, or anything. If it's that company or person, it's that company or person. Perhaps a little cavet that "we treat you different, with more respect and better attitude, if you are a paying client, so don't judge us here", would be an appropriate slogan for the forums then? Do you see what I mean. We form opinions and learn things about people and company's, based on their actions and comments, and you don't need to physically have data stored on your company's hard drives to have a right to make that judgement call in many sitations. Truthfully, we all realize that a judgment call or claim about a company's actual service can only be claimed if you have experienced it as a client, and we all know that -- but in some circumstances, people surely have a right and reasons to state things.


BurstNET does not comment about random hosts...we are here commenting about VDI...and we were a VDI client for a very long time...so we know first hand how their service/operation runs.


Okay, fair enough, I was just asking for proof of what you say. I mean, if you're going to say it, it should make sense and be coherent to the point. Such as, if they were so bad, why were you on them for so long? It sort of conflicts with that you've been saying is all. I mean, why tell people about someone, if you're not going to provide them with the proof to show it's true, so people can take your post into consideration. I mean, that is the point to posting negative things, or positive things for that matter -- to help people make the right choice. You must surely expect anyone with any intelligence will require that, or your post is moot.


<< Why, if it was so bad, did you wait such a very, very, very long time to move or do anything about it? >>

Because they basically had us locked in.


Come on now, that's impossible. I know sometimes people can make things difficult, but why would they lock you in, when they couldn't possibly have a reason to or knowledge or any idea or clue that you wanted out? Further, how could they possibly make it so you couldn't leave? After all, we're talking about your business reputation and clients, and that's a little difficult to buy. I'm again not saying you're being dishonest, but simply to explain so we can all understand and have the confidence that it's fact, or again, the point would be moot.

They kept raising prices on us, so we couldn't afford to pay our bills to them.


You've stated again and again how you were so big and successful. Also, you don't pay right then and there. You also surely had a contract about a certain duration of hosting and how much it'd cost, being the "on top of things" business man you say and act like you are. I don't say that to mock you, but you'd certainly have that when you started hosting so many servers. You should have had ample time and opportunity and warnings to plan to move as well. If you can't afford to pay bills, staying or leaving isn't an issue at that point, because you can't afford to stay anyway then.


They of course would not release servers unless you had you bill paid in full.


Makes sense, but staying there collecting more and continuing to keep yourself in that situation would not have been a reasonable or smart choice either. It's an impossibility based on that. You could simply have started hosting other servers at other NOC's, not put anymore servers there from the first sign of trouble and used the servers at VDI, as well as the other NOC's, to offset and pay for thesew high bills, and simply moved all the servers to another NOC, or set up other systems, moving one server client at a time to the other NOC, lessening your billing at VDI. There are a million and one reasonable and workable options you had, it's difficult to believe you were stuck there, and if you were, why you raved so highly about the service knowing this, until only a short while before the move, around the time of the lines being full.

You can maybe see why it's questionable, because your comments without any reasons or valid reasons, make it just sound like you are doing it out of spite. That said, perhaps at least you can understand how I feel when you let the dragon's loose about posts I felt the right and reason to post too. It might not look reasonable to you, assuming it really is to someone else. I don't mean to keep brining that aspect up, but you can surely see why I felt compelled to post about it, being that it bothered me how you have that attitude here. All I wanted, was for you to practice what you preach. Provide something valid and solid as per facts and reasons, this is all I ask.


Plus we were always worried that they would sabotage our servers.


That would be highly unlikely any NOC would do such a thing, and that's a bit excessive to assume, based only on the information you've provided thus far.


As it turns out, I will state that they were very helpful with our move, and didn't cause us any problems whatsoever.


Good deal... I guess you could have done this easily a long time ago then.


Remarkably though, many servers that used to crash daily in the VDI NOC, seem to have quite good uptimes in our facility....Also, the factthat CPanel was not available to us outside of VDI...even though we were using it (Cpanel 1.0) prior to VDI even being involved with it.
The point is they made it very hard for us to leave the facility, and the first opportunity that allowed us to get out..we jumped at.


That would make more sense, but I don't see that as being a rational reason to stay. I don't think I need to comment about the value of Cpanel (yuck), but to some, I know it's a draw to a NOC anyway. Still, it can't possibly be that valuable to anyone, faced with the situation you claim to have been in. I hope you understand why I see it that way.


<< Please, oh, please, oh please just STOP comparing yourself to large company's or saying you are in the same league or even worse, to claim you're "in the top 10%". >>


You obviously have not looked at the profit/loss statements of the "big guys" lately.


That's completely irrelevant to the subject that I discussed as to what you brought up previously. There are a lot of large hosts, obviously more than you think. How many lines do you have, Sean? How many servers? How large is the one line you currently have? Because, that's basically it. Do you realize how many, many providers there are that have that much and far more?



BurstNET actually makes more money (profit) then many of them.



Percentage-wise, maybe so. But when you are a certain size, your profit margin came become a lot less in percentage, but you usually still make a huge amount of money. It can't all be a very high precentage, or everyone would be microshaft.


Many of them loose money every quarter...and have been doing so for years.


Agreed. Many do. Many small, medium and large. The size of the company is irrelevant.


Exodus, RackSpace, Interland, the list goes on and on....


And the list goes on and on for the other side of that argument as well, and for far more than the top 10% too.



And we are definately within the top 10% largest hosting companies in the world.


Prove that, Sean. I don't agree with that at all, unless the web is basically dead, and shutting down soon and I didn't hear about it.


The majority of hosting companies are mom and pop operations with less than 100 clients.


Of course, but there's also a lot of company's that have many, many thousands of client's that are not "mom and pop". Don't tell me this NOC of yours went to your head! You don't have the capacity in space or lines to be anywhere near far more than 10% of the bigger hosting companies! Think about this for a moment.


Any company doing over $1,000,000.00 in revenue a year is in the top 10%.


Well, if you want to add the 99 million other hosts that many little to no money and no profits, sure. But, if that was a sane way of claiming or calculating what percentage a company is in, then McDonalds and KFC and my local barber shop and the rest can all claim to be in the top 2% of all company's in the world, when you add the hundred million other family owned businesses into the equation. When you make this claim, you make it sound like you are a fortune 100 company and it's.. well... no need to get hostile about it...

And check out the actual revenue figures of Dialtone & RackSpace, etc....you'll find they are not all as big as you think.


I know DI is bigger than Burst.


As far as how VDI is better than BurstNET...I don't feel there is a comparison whatsoever.


I know, VDI is larger.


BurstNET has never had a 24 hour downtime, a 12 hour downtime, etc...


Are you as large as VDI? No, that was the subject. I'm not going to discuss the problems with VDI, anymore than I am willing to about Burst. That wasn't the subject of this comment I made. Again, I've worked on your servers, I know there's issues there too.


BurstNET has never raised prices on our clients EVER.


Okay.


BurstNET actually has more technical staff currently than VDI has ever had.


Why.. well, nevermind. Okay, some of your staff seem okay, and some are in way too high of positions and control than they have the experience needed to be. That is my personal and professional opinion. However, I've seen a lot worse too. Also, since you mention VDI's role in that, I don't know, so I won't claim how qualified their current staff is. I won't comment on how qualified I believe your staff members to be, because it's not relevant to my discussion about this and I also don't much about some of them -- and I therefore won't comment about how qualified they may or may not be in my personal and professional opinion. However, it's not how many, if they can't provide the real, quality service that people need. That's just about the quality over quantity, since by the size of your operation, I know you don't need a huge staff, just knowledgeable staff. Since, the most knowledgeable they are, the faster and more efficiently they can work and get things done.


You obviously have never met the VDI staff in person...although nice guys...you are in for a rude awakening.


Well, Bill called me once at near 3 AM, if that helps. *LOL* I've talked to Bill on ICQ more than a few things. He seems like an okay guy to me. We didn't get along on the forums before, but that's an old and long story and we get along fine now. I don't believe you and I get along great here either, no big secret and we didn't have a big issue like Bill and I had, but all I get from you, is what I see here, and that hasn't been so great, and hence my recent reciprocal attitude about it, although I am being civil and reasonable... even if I do comment like I have out of being sick of this crap. But, oh well. I just don't see a need to have to know someone personally, to be able to get along with them or not, or have issues with them or not. But, oh well.


(Bill's grammer and spelling alone should tell you about their management)


I suppose it could be an indication, but I don't see this as grammar school. I could make a complete judgment about how I think your attitude indicates how you run your business too, here, and that's what a lot of people have flat out commented on and about how they would never be a client of yours based solely on that. You tell them they don't know you and are wrong, yet you make this statment about Bill's grammar reflecting his management? We aren't chums, you obviously have issues with me, do you think I'd manage a company well? Do you have any idea? I might bring up issues and people might not like my honesty and openness about how I feel about company's or people, but I don't do so with any ill intentions, even if you might believe otherwise. However, I expect we all make judgment calls, it's human nature, we're not mentally or emotionally numb -- well some are, but. Just don't ask people to make such an assumption based on grammar, especially over attitude, unless you are willing to have this sort of thing reflect on you.


The majority of the BurstNET staff has bachelor's degrees.


But the highest tech/admin's do not and I've seen what disasterous code and configuration and administration has resulted from that. Again, no insult, but since you bring it up. The point is, you aren't, obviously indicated by many threads on this forum (which are all archived), you are not immune to faults or problems in your company. You have them, they exist, I've seen them first hand and I didn't want to have to deal with them. He whom casts the first stone and all...


Our prices blow theirs away currently...


See, there you go, that's more like it and I can respect that logic -- but that doesn't mean their service level in inferior to yours.


We don't take client's away from out reseller's/server clients....no matter what....period.


Well, going back to the previous comment of mine in response to this aspect, that's great. However, provided the circumstances, I don't see any moral or ethical violation whatsoever, if a client is leaving anyway and is dead set on it, when you can at least keep them in house. That's not to say that you can't warn or inform the client of yours about their client first, but that also has issues with it too. it can depend, but in general terms, I think most understand and agree, but it's not entirely and always so wrong -- depending.



How do you explain all the hosting companies that have left VDI recently, and/or are planning on leaving...
You think that is just coincidence?


Every company has their own reasons, even if similar reasons. I can't comment on any company I don't have first hand knowledge of, or at least heard both sides to assume whom was correct. I know that many left due to the line problems and some had plans before those problems. I'm not going to make any judgments or assumptions on reasons, since I'm not those hosts, and neither are you. We can hear things about it, maybe even from them (the companys), but we can never know the reasons entirely. It's a semi reasonable assumption, but I'm not here to defend VDI, obviously, I never have in this thread. Simply, I asked for proof as to the reasons why you were making negative comments about them, since that should be expected. Not based on why other people left.



We have built in 3 months, what VDI has taken years to build.


And VDI stated that they didn't start out or intend, nor were they originally set up to deal with this sort of aspect. However, you are and that was what it was set up for and you already had a good number of clients. This statement is nothing as to the service level or reason why you made your comments though.


At the present rate, BurstNET will outgrow VDI within 4-5 months.


Anything's possible.


We have already grown approx 66% revenue since we opened our new facility.


That's great, you can buy your wife and kids some really cool precents this Christmas. No sarcasm, success is a great thing.


We have about 200 servers in our facility now, compared to 45 when we opened.


Okay... but, again, this is more promotional fluff and this is exactly what I said I wasn't interested in. However, you are at least providing the facts and numbers, instead of just saying how great you are doing and leaving it at that. Still, this isn't covering any aspect about why and proof.


We have two large server providers moving in within the next 1-2 months as well.
We have our first advertising campaign starting in 2-3 months which should skyrocket sales.


Again... That's good news for Burst.


BurstNET has been in business 10+ years. I for one would feel safer knowing my provider isn't going bankrupt/closing any time in the near future...as many providers are or heading towards.


Sean R.
BurstNET

That's a reasonable and understandable statement. However, you started out, sort of, on VDI doing this hosting stuff, and you grew on them large enough to be able to move into and build your own small NOC (Yes, it is, but I'm sure it;ll grow, provided your company continues to grow). How long though, has Burst been in business doing what they are now, and running a NOC, and all the othe aspects? You have to admit, the costs and profits are considerably different now that there's no set price on servers and bandwidth, other than from your provider, your employee's, etc. Of course, that gives you the ability to make more profit and bring the costs down too. Still, a lot of this didn't have to do with why VDI's service is so bad, and any proof of the many things you said they did. However, I thank you, Sean, for being civil and covering some of the aspects of my inquisition. Cheers to more success!

Hmm, I wonder if this post will be too many characters to post? yeah, way too long, way off! :-)

please keep this thread on topic.. we are discussing VDI service levels and not Burst Nets problems.

Originally posted by kunal
please keep this thread on topic.. we are discussing VDI service levels and not Burst Nets problems.

Yes, I know, but that's what I was asking about and why I posted in response, to ask the reasons and maybe for some proof. Albeit a long response, I basically just continued to ask how and what any fo it had to do with VDI. I hope that was obvious, if not, it should be now.

Originally posted by kunal
please keep this thread on topic.. we are discussing VDI service levels and not Burst Nets problems.

Ya Tim, get back to work! ;)

You need your typing addict title back. :D

Also, the factthat CPanel was not available to us outside of VDI...even though we were using it (Cpanel 1.0) prior to VDI even being involved with it.

i ever wonder who owns cpanel ? as all guys like burst.net, liquidweb and vdi, site5 have cpanel. Also i have heared that all (or some company) are going to release there own version of CPANEL. When i go to cpanel.net it have three resellers burst, powersurge and liquidweb listed over there. what's the truth.
:confused:

i look confused now. :rolleyes:

also i found latest flaw in CPANEL when you add sub-domain with capital name in it. it won't allow you to delete that sub-domain from cpanel.
:o

<< who owns CPANEL >>

Cpanel3 is owned by DarkOrb Communications.
DarkOrb was primarily owned by Nick Koston, and a very small % by VDI.
Nick otained the small % of VDI ownership back in an agreement he made with them recently.

DarkOrb Communications is being disolved.
DarkOrb CPanel4 (NOCSoft) is being released by a newly formed company: The NOCSoft Group LLC.

The NOCSoft Group LLC is owned by three parties:
Nick Koston
BurstNET Technologies, Inc.
Site5 Internet Solutions, Inc.

As far as what VDI is doing on their replacement product(s) for Cpanel, I believe the numerous people that own pieces of VDI (approx 30 I believe...), would own that software as well. Contact them regarding their new product.


Sean R.
BurstNET

Do you consider us in the top 10% of hosting companies size-wise then? According to your little theory we are, but I really dont think thats the case... especially considering were less than a year old. Did you just make that number up or was it based on something?

-Brendan

I`ll be able to reply as soon as i get done... reading........................................ :)

Wow ...

Back to work! BACK TO WORK?! *gasp!* That's IT, I quit! I'm going to go join the circus! :-)

Hey, I'm just glad to know, that by these figures, I'm in the top 1% of the new high/rich income bracket.. I mean, compared to all the billions of starving people, how can anyone be poor? I'm stoked! :-)

Originally posted by Tim_Greer
Back to work! BACK TO WORK?! *gasp!* That's IT, I quit! I'm going to go join the circus! :-)


Too late, your already in the circus ;)

[i]

Try the other way around....
One of the primary reasons we left VDI was because they took/accepted/stole/removed/obtained (however you want to term/state it...) several of our largest clients. We lost over $10000 of revenue per month because of this, and who knows how much these clients would have been spending at this point in time.


** Once again we never stole them, contacted them, or even told them to signup with us. Matter of fact we tried to advoid the issue, They Insisted and tried everyway possible to leave Burst. The Clients contacted us when you didn`t support them, answer the phone, respond to email. Even I tried to contact you to let you know.. you were a hard man to reach.



Some of the clients in question are some of the most well known hosting companies around these parts, that originally were BurstNET clients...prior to arrangements being made for them to purchase directly from VDI. If you were in that situation, I highly doubt you would be happy about it either....especially from a company that states "Hosting for Hosting Companies". bbrader, you don't know the full details of everything that went on behind the scenes with BurstNET and VDI, so please don't make assumptions. VDI may provide you with great service....but our company, and others, have left for a reason.

Shawn - 3 companies have left and it was not support it was bandwidth issues. When a client has me on the phone, i cater to them. At least clients can always get me 1 way or another. Thats a fact.


Sean R.
BurstNET [/B]

Originally posted by William
Shawn - 3 companies have left

I know three, BurstNet, JaguarPC, VenturesOnline.

Originally posted by Walter


I know three, BurstNet, JaguarPC, VenturesOnline.

Yea walter you did your homework :)

Woah, I just spent the past 30 minutes reading this....Better run.

Originally posted by William
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=vdi.net

uptime...

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=on&mode_w=on&site=burst.net

Correct as per the title of the post, "Doesn't mean anything" as all it reallys tells us is that the server VDI.net is served from is running ancient software and hasn't had all the updates applied to it, whereas the Burst server has had them applied.

As for my take on it all, I don't think either BurstNET or VDI generally have a good public image, maybe the need to hire a consultant to put over the point that bickering doesn't impress.

<<MOD NOTE: My new calling! I work cheap!>>

hey guys take a look at this thread you will be amazed

please tell me who is thief


http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showt...&threadid=17329



find same design on both pages

http://www.multipleimage.com/dedicated.shtml

-----------------

http://www.burst.net/servers/

This has trailed off topic.