I know some people resell colo and dedicated servers very successfully, and just wonder how colo and dedicated servers are resold.

Let me put it more specific: anyone can trace back to colo reseller's real provider if he or she knows how. If he or she knows you're only a reseller, your site visitor must think of cutting off the middle man and won't buy from you but instead contact real provider directly even if you sell the same price as your provider does.

So I feel that colo or dedicated server can only be re-sold to those who don't use trace tools, or to off line business owners who don't have much knowledge about internet but money.

Is that true?

If it's not and if colo can be resold to anyone, is there any way to hide against from being traced back?

Hmm

well get yourself a C-Class of IPs and for colocation,
when they ship the server, ask your ISP if they can address it to a PERSON rather then a company...

E.g.

To:
Chris Tukker
Street 123
New York, NY 34536
United States

rather then

ISP Company name
Street 123
New York, NY 34536
United States

Ask your ISP first...
We always do that, always works fine...

well this isn't always the case but many times resellers actually give better prices.

becuase resellers buy in major bulk many will get good discounts on the bandwidth and hardware. so they're usually able to pass the savings onto you as well.

Originally posted by checkall
I know some people resell colo and dedicated servers very successfully, and just wonder how colo and dedicated servers are resold.

Really? I honestly don't know of anyone that resells dedicated/colos servers and has more than one or two servers. I'd honestly be interested in some of the places that do this successfully.

Really? I honestly don't know of anyone that resells dedicated/colos servers and has more than one or two servers. I'd honestly be interested in some of the places that do this successfully.
Gee, whiz. It was only last night you suggested someone bypass us and go directly to the source:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15923

I know some people resell colo and dedicated servers very successfully, and just wonder how colo and dedicated servers are resold.
I do this, but it's not a traditional reselling arangement. What happens is I take the orders, collect customer information, etc, and then pass the customer off to the company I am reselling for. They handle it from there on out. I get a set fee up front, and then pretty good residual every month.

Originally posted by sbrad
Gee, whiz. It was only last night you suggested someone bypass us and go directly to the source:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15923

I do this, but it's not a traditional reselling arangement. What happens is I take the orders, collect customer information, etc, and then pass the customer off to the company I am reselling for. They handle it from there on out. I get a set fee up front, and then pretty good residual every month.

Right. I'm not sure I see the correlation. You're not really reselling for them. You're doing more of a referral arrangement. There's a big difference. The original poster was curious as to how people resell servers without the customer knowing who they're reselling for. Obviously, in your case, the customer will find out for sure since the company you're "reselling" for does the support, billing, etc.

(edited to fix tags)

You say tomato, I say tomAHto. I don't have my dictionary handy, but the arrangement works out for ME. I'm not saying it's for everyone.:)

well get yourself a C-Class of IPs and for colocation,

Hi Eagle, the method you introdused here does work with some tracing sites, but not with others.

I have tried to trace your site but still get the real provider.

Anyway, you're really flying high in front of us...

Thanks.

I do this, but it's not a traditional reselling arangement. What happens is I take the orders, collect customer information, etc, and then pass the customer off to the company I am reselling for. They handle it from there on out. I get a set fee up front, and then pretty good residual every month.

What's your site URL, sbrad?

well this isn't always the case but many times resellers actually give better prices.

If I were a colo reseller, I would sell it at the same price as the provider does or even lower.

:)

What's your site URL, sbrad?
See the thread I have linked above, or email me. I'll get yelled at for posting it here.;)

Really? I honestly don't know of anyone that resells dedicated/colos servers and has more than one or two servers. I'd honestly be interested in some of the places that do this successfully.

Check http://interserver.net/. The owner is VDI's largest clients with 105 servers being commercial colo.

By the way, he is 16 year old.

The above info was provided by someone in VDI two weeks ago, the URL is acturely traced back to VDI, and I tend to believe it.

It looks like it can be successful in re-selling colo without hiding IPs.

Originally posted by Planet Z


Really? I honestly don't know of anyone that resells dedicated/colos servers and has more than one or two servers.

We have much more than "one or two" servers.
I don't like calling what we do reselling because it is not.
We own all the hardware that is used and just pay for rack space and bandwidth, we also know what we are doing and can manage servers without a control panel.

Having your own router(s) and IPs will help hide who you co-locate with. The most important part is finding a host that will co-operate with you and is willing to help you hide that you are using them.

If you can offer something that the person you're reselling for can't or won't offer, it doesn't much matter if the customer can trace back, because you're giving them something the manufacturer isn't providing.

Maybe you have expertise in a certain type of software, maybe you speak the customer's language better than the producer. Maybe you include server management where the provider doesn't, or you design solutions that _include_ other people's products?

Ultimately, you're right. If all you do is just take someone's product and resell it at a higher price, they're eventually going to cut out the middleman. You have to add value to prevent it :) Thus the term 'VAR' -- value added reseller.

Sure, but the great part about "middlmen" is that if I own a business making widgets, I can have just a few middlemen to sell them and not have to worry about making them and selling them to individual members of the public.

Originally posted by energy
We have much more than "one or two" servers.
I don't like calling what we do reselling because it is not.
We own all the hardware that is used and just pay for rack space and bandwidth, we also know what we are doing and can manage servers without a control panel.


And I don't consider it reselling either. So it's not really applicable to the question at hand. I think a better definition of "reselling" should be given in this case. My idea of "reselling" dedicated servers is the host (not reseller) providing the servers, bandwidth, setup, etc. and the reseller does the billing and support. Basically the same as reselling virtual hosting.

Your case is different, since you own the servers and administer them. The majority of dedicated hosts on here don't own their own data centers, yet, I wouldn't say that they're reselling dedicated servers.

Wow, WHT is really a wonderful school!! I love it here.

I don't like calling what we do reselling because it is not.
We own all the hardware that is used and just pay for rack space and bandwidth, we also know what we are doing and can manage servers without a control panel.

You're right. But, have I visited your website before? Probably yes...

You have to add value to prevent it Thus the term 'VAR' -- value added reseller.
Great idea!

Sure, but the great part about "middlmen" is that if I own a business making widgets, I can have just a few middlemen to sell them and not have to worry about making them and selling them to individual members of the public.
The middlemen are necessary in hosting as in other industries - middlemen are everywhere. Having middlemen is a good practice in marketing to get more business so that a middleman can even have his middlemen under him.

My idea of "reselling" dedicated servers is the host (not reseller) providing the servers, bandwidth, setup, etc. and the reseller does the billing and support. Basically the same as reselling virtual hosting.
Clear definition of resellers!
:D :cool: :) ;)

Originally posted by checkall
But, have I visited your website before? Probably yes...


Maybe you did. I don't understand the point of that sentence.

Sorry I confused you. It looks like I didn't visited your site. What's your site's url?

This is really a rant, so I'll say so up front.
<rant>

For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would have to feel the need to "hide".
I buy bandwidth from <vendor>, <vendor> and soon <really big name pipe vendor!>. Should I hide this?
I resell entire cages to some companies - why should they hide where they are colo'ed?

I have 3 customers that only buy space when they have a customer - 4U, power and ping. And they provide a level of service for dollars that don't pay my costs.

I resell entire racks to some guys and handle all their routing/monitoring/backups, other guys come in and do it all themselves.

Why would someone be ashamed of a business model that keeps them focused on their area of expertise and out of either the facilities business (colo) or systms admin business (managed colo/dedicated server)?

I am not embarrassed by the fact that we did not have 2.6 mil to put in a generator/inverted AC system, redundant OC-48's and 4 air conditoners/handlers.

You see, I resell all the IP/internet business for the colo I'm in. The rest is telco, and the owners are smart enough to stay in there area of expertise. And it's on my website.

I happen to be proud of my power guy, Greg. He runs a beautiful power grid for us. Should I say I get the power from TU Electric? Or brag about the fact that he is an absolute expert at what he does.
The alternative is let my customers worry about my companies abilities to manage routers, bandwidth providers, a backup network/tape silo, a diesel generator, a battery room and an AC inverter. So I can hide.

I suspect the issue may be cusomers that climb the chain trying to get a better deal. I deal with it a lot, because I make it clear I do not compete directly with my customers. That is, we will not get into database consulting or web hosting because thats what they do. Can I do it cheaper? I can make money at $2.00/mo. doing webhosting. What will it cost me? At least 2-4 full rack customers. And my reputation, small as it is, is good.
I love it when CTSNBNITIOSOT(1) spams all there customers with webhosting offers (between outages, I guess..) and everyone here screams. Remember, you paid them so they could afford to do it. And they lowered the price so you would bring their next years customer base into the facility.

If you can't find a way to differentiate your services from your competition *besides price*, I think you are in trouble and may not know it. I have 4 full racks of colos I inherited from folks that went the price route. Just bought a colo company that did "$49.00/mo. unlimited bandwidth" colo.


If <my vendor> can take one of my customers, they were mine to lose. Of course, I'm gone from them as soon as practical. I don't want to do business with customers and suppliers who operate that way.

There is no one doing managed colo in our facility right now, and we are looking at it hard. (Not sure we want to debug cgi scripts at 3:00 am.) But if <customer> tells me he is getting into it, or someone comes along with a decent business plan and some money, I'll either bail or back them and stay out.

I have someone who wants to rent a cage and a couple T's from me and do...... reselling of racks w/ bandwidth!

I wish him the best of luck, and he understands that's my bread and butter, so he better find a way to compete besides price. (I did agree to take down the signs inside the data center advertising us for single colos.)

I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you're worried about customers climbing up the chain and getting a better deal, you're on the wrong chain. Climb higher yourself, or find a vendor that has more ethics.
</rant>

Tom

1) Company That Shall Not Be Named In The Interest Of Staying On Topic.:D

Originally posted by tom.oneil
If you can't find a way to differentiate your services from your competition *besides price*, I think you are in trouble and may not know it. I have 4 full racks of colos I inherited from folks that went the price route. Just bought a colo company that did "$49.00/mo. unlimited bandwidth" colo.

That's the point. I agree by heart.

For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would have to feel the need to "hide".
Hiding products source or providers is a normal practice in all industries including hosting, except some special situation that resellers carry certain FAMOUS products.

I do understand why someone cannot understand this common sense...

Why would someone be ashamed of a business model that keeps them focused on their area of expertise and out of either the facilities business (colo) or systms admin business (managed colo/dedicated server)?
It has nothing to do with being ashamed or not. If you don't need to hide or have never hide any business screts in your situation, that's fine. Don't claim others being ashame of something...

It's not constructive to this forum, I'm afraid. You'd better, before post your message, check the rules set by administrator of WHT or educate yourself a little bit, learn how to respect other members of it. This is, too, common sense.

I suspect the issue may be cusomers that climb the chain trying to get a better deal. I deal with it a lot, because I make it clear I do not compete directly with my customers.
Yes, that's the point. But there're certainly different ways to deal with that in different situations.

It's good that you "do not compete directly with" your customers, but how do your customers deal with their customers who "climb the chain trying to get a better deal" and cutting your customers off? Just ask them if you are not sure or cannot understand.

By the way, do you compete INDIRECTLY with your customers? How?

This is really a rant, so I'll say so up front.
There're really a couple of rants in your message though I do pick up some useful info from it.

Next time when you read a "rant" or you find out something you believe is a "rant" in this forum, please, please, please don't throw your *rant* out!!

This is the first time and last time also I believe that I waste 30 minutes valuble time of mine to reply a *rant*. I say it at the end after I have proved that.

:confused: