Hi all,

I have a problem (well I have lots of them, but you don't want to hear about THOSE :-)... I'm setting up a new web site that will have logins. The site will allow users to store data and interact with the site. I want to set things up properly so that response time is good, but I don't want to go broke doing it.

So my question is - How do I know what type of host I need? I've thought about a dedicated server since this will give me full control, but that's part of the problem - I'll be on my own. I'll have to worry about security, admin, setup, etc. Unless I go with a managed dedicated server (expensive). I've seen reasonably priced dedicated servers ($35, $50, and $99), but I might end up going broke on support charges.

My requirements are basically standard:
- mySQL and PHP (of course :-)
- CRON jobs
- multiple domain names (would be nice)

Unknowns include:
- disk space required
- bandwidth needed
(I guess it depends on how popular the site becomes, but right now I don't have a clue).

I'm running a test version of my scripts on my current host (nomonthlyfees.com). I'm pretty happy with them, but sometimes I feel as if the response time is lagging with the scripts. I don't know if this is a typical problem with shared hosts, or if nomonthlyfees is the problem. The scripts are quite heavy, and they generate large HTML pages.

So, to make a long rambling post even longer (no, just kidding), how do you know what type of hosting is required? Does it sound from my above description that dedicated is needed? Or perhaps just a better shared host. Also, I'm sure that there are issues that I haven't thought of, or that I'm not aware of.

Thanks in advance for any light that could be shed on this.

Take care,

Abu Mami

Originally posted by Abu Mami
Unless I go with a managed dedicated server (expensive). I've seen reasonably priced dedicated servers ($35, $50, and $99), but I might end up going broke on support charges.


You should be able to get a decent server for $150-200 a month that includes good support. Anything below that, the support quality may be questionable.

Originally posted by Abu Mami
My requirements are basically standard:
- mySQL and PHP (of course :-)
- CRON jobs
- multiple domain names (would be nice)

Unknowns include:
- disk space required
- bandwidth needed
(I guess it depends on how popular the site becomes, but right now I don't have a clue).


The top three are easily hosted on a shared server (depending on how many connections you plan on using with mysql at a single time).

The next two are _usually_ the deciding factor in getting a dedicated or not. There is also the CPU/Memory flexibility too. I'm not sure how much CPU and memory your scripts eat up. That as well could be a deciding factor.

Usually your site has to be
1) pretty popular (small site and heavy traffic)
2) very hefty in size and not-so-popular (large images/files with low-medium traffic for instance)
3) CPU/Memory intensive (cgi and/or mysql intensive) or
4) very private (shared sites are not usually private to other users on the server because of permissions) to be hosted on a dedicated server.

There's probably other reasons to host on dedicated but they aren't coming to me right now.

Hope this helps :)

First, there is no dedicated server for $35 or $50. The cheapest start at $99, but you get what you pay for. You probably saw virtual accounts on a server.
Second, if you don't know how much bandwidth you need it would be far better not to get a dedicated server but to start on a reasonable shared account with a reliable host.
If you only use PHP and mySQL you probably won't need a dedicated server unless your site becomes very, very popular.

Hi,

Thanks for all of your comments so far. I see that I have a lot to learn.

Originally posted by Walter
First, there is no dedicated server for $35 or $50. The cheapest start at $99, but you get what you pay for. You probably saw virtual accounts on a server.


Well, I actually found 3 under $100...

(~$35) http://uk2.net
Seems interesting - amazing price!. Main drawback is what appears to be weak tech support. Well, I don't know how weak, but tech support is only by email. This may not be bad, but it couldn't be so good either. They also don't state anywhere about uptime guarantees (or at least I couldn't find it).

- ($50) http://www.acsdatanet.com
- ($79) http://home.escaladenet.com/
These two seem interesting. They both state guaranteed up-times of 99.5+, and the machines that they are offering seem pretty nice.

I don't know enough about any of the above companies to be able to decide. Furthermore, the reason I started this thread is that it's not clear to me if I need a dedicated server or not. Shared hosting seems easier to deal with since I won't have to deal with dealing with security issues, software updates, reboots, etc.

Originally posted by Walter
Second, if you don't know how much bandwidth you need it would be far better not to get a dedicated server but to start on a reasonable shared account with a reliable host.


So far that's the direction I'm leaning. I have no idea of bandwidth requirements. Of course I HOPE that someday my site's bandwidth will get WAY up there.

Originally posted by Walter
If you only use PHP and mySQL you probably won't need a dedicated server unless your site becomes very, very popular.

Well of course that's what I'm hoping for. The mySQL issue puzzles me. With my current shared host, I find it impossible (?) to transfer a large amount of data (about 20 MB) into the database. I always time-out. I assume that with a dedicated server this wouldn't happen since I would be THE BOSS.

PHP on my current shared host is also somewhat problematic. I need one of the extensions installed and they refuse to do this. I sort of understand them, but then again not. I won't be the only one who benefits, and it shouldn't really cost them that much to do it. Again, with a ded-serv, I would be the boss and this wouldn't be a problem.


Thanks again for your comments, and I hope that others will jump in and contribute to this discussion. I've got a LOT to learn.

Regards,

Abu Mami

Just my personal opinion: before I would go for a cheap (and probably crap) server I would search for a reliable host who also offers decent dedicated servers. You can use a small shared account and if you grow step up on their shared accounts until you can justify your own good server. So two things would be important for me for my search:

[list=1]
Host supports all features I need (ask in advance)
Host offers also dedicated servers so I can grow
[/list=1]

BTW, installing common extensions should be no problem, also a 20 MB database is not such an issue :)

I agree with Walter. 20 megs isnt a whole lot for a mySQL database and can be transferred rather easily. You host _should_ be able to do this for you, but some don't.

As for you PHP problems, your host either doesn't care to make you happy as a customer, or doesn't know how to do what you are asking.

Either way, you might want to consider staying shared for now and just simply switch hosts. The fact that your current host won't install features really isn't a reason to go spend all that money on a dedicated server just so you can have the .phtml PHP extension and a 20 meg mySQL file imported. :)

Hi,

Thanks again for your comments.

Originally posted by Walter
installing common extensions should be no problem,

Yeah, that's what I'd think.

Originally posted by Walter
also a 20 MB database is not such an issue

Originally posted by allera
I agree with Walter. 20 megs isnt a whole lot for a mySQL database and can be transferred rather easily. You host _should_ be able to do this for you, but some don't.

Well, the 20MB data base was just an example of a db issue, a minor issue for that matter. But if I'm having a problem with this, then I'll certainly have problems with other db issues (backups, fixes, etc).

Originally posted by allera
As for you PHP problems, your host either doesn't care to make you happy as a customer, or doesn't know how to do what you are asking.

They probably just don't want to bother. I'm using nomonthlyfees and I'm actually happy with them. They're good for basic tech support (quick response), and they seem reliable (can't recall them ever being down). They just don't seem to be too flexible. They gave no explanation why they couldn't install the PHP extension. I would think it would be worth it for them. Since it's shared hosting, I wouldn't be the only one benefitting from this. I had also requested an update on the old version of phpmyadmin that they make available and they said no to that too. So I installed a new version in my own web space. Oh well, perhaps I expect too much? Would other hosting companies install php extensions or upgrade db utilities?

Originally posted by allera
Either way, you might want to consider staying shared for now and just simply switch hosts. The fact that your current host won't install features really isn't a reason to go spend all that money on a dedicated server just so you can have the .phtml PHP extension and a 20 meg mySQL file imported. :)

I'll probably stick with shared hosting for now, but I want to be ready if and when the traffic on my site picks up. The scripts I have are quite heavy, and they generate pretty dense html output. Also, if the site is used as I expect, the database could get large. How large I'm not yet sure.

Thanks again for your comments, they're greatly appreciated. I'm going to continue researching this, so all comments and suggestions are welcome.

Take care