develophost.com

If you're here develophost.com, why don't you tell me why you spammed me?

Anyone else been spammed by this guy?

Ok his IP is owned by:

----------------------------------------

ATJEU PUBLISHING LLC
3128 WEST CREST LANE
PHOENIX, AZ 85027
US

Coordinator:
Vasilev, Boris sales@atjeu.com
1 623 434-5294

----------------------------------------

Which means he resellers / colocates for/with them...
contact them and report him as a spammer...

Be sure to forward the spam email to them too...

develophost is one of our dedicated server customers and he has been contacted and given 24hrs to stop spamming as he is violating our policies. we do not allow spamming on our network.

24hrs??? Why?

Why not disable his server until you can seek explanation, or ideally firewall port 25.

Or at the very least contact him via phone/fax and demand an immediate halt. On a properly configured system one can send millions and millions of emails in 24hrs.

Originally posted by MattF
24hrs??? Why?

Why not disable his server until you can seek explanation, or ideally firewall port 25.

Or at the very least contact him via phone/fax and demand an immediate halt. On a properly configured system one can send millions and millions of emails in 24hrs.

I am sure atjeu is monitoring their servers ;)

Originally posted by atjeu
develophost is one of our dedicated server customers and he has been contacted and given 24hrs to stop spamming as he is violating our policies. we do not allow spamming on our network.

What?! Huh?!

So you let all your clients break your policies for a 24 hr period before you do anything?

If they spam for only 12hrs, what do you do, leave them alone?

That is one of the most ridiculous things i've ever heard! :rolleyes:


If any of your clients spam me, I'll get you shut down, I'm not about to wait 24 hours. :angry:

spammers are scum :mad:

he has been contacted and given 24hrs to stop spamming as he is violating our policies.

Wow, thanks. Mean while this scumbag just Spammed a few thousand more people.

However he won't spam us. We just added the domain to the list of denied host for our network. Maybe we will add your IP Block if this is the way you handle *known* spammers.

Instead of coming down hard, why doesn't everyone just politely suggest that maybe that isn't a sound policy and to consider immediate suspension. Sorry, just had a bit too much negativity for one day :rolleyes: nothing against anyone.

I think an immediate block of the port is justified and personally, I wouldn't allow them access to send mail again (though your servers i mean).

Meow rarw hiss hiss scratch scratch....

Geeze...

Ok i'll try and explain the 24 hour rule.

Imagine this senario shall you.

You own a webhosting company
You have 500 clients on a server
1 of those 500 clients spams

How would you like it if i decided to pull the plug on your server within say 20mins if you couldn't find the spammer.

Would you want to reputation and the anger of those 500 clients directed at you ? which would then be directed at your upstream?

Spam happens, i see it all the time on my network, we do what we can to catch it and to stop it but they get smarter and smarter every day, plus its near impossible to know who uploads what across 120 servers :-0

Soo in short, granted this is a slightly different case as the guy who's spamming owns the server, BUT, we have to remember EVERYBODY is human and EVERYBODY makes mistakes... half the time small companies are run by the younger generation and they just don't think of what happens if they do this, they just see "Hey! this is a great way to tell everybody about my company" and not "Oh crap people don't like spam i better not do that"


My $123.25 cents

Originally posted by DanielP....

My $123.25 cents


Prices going up??

:D

DanielP, did you read this post? Perhaps you missed this ...

If you're here develophost.com, why don't you tell me why you spammed me?


They know who spammed and it was a web host. Show me someones Terms that state "If you Spam on our network, we will give you a 24 hour warning". They were caught spamming. They should be shut down.

"Hey! this is a great way to tell everybody about my company" and not "Oh crap people don't like spam i better not do that"

If you start a hosting company, I am pretty sure you know spam is wrong.

yeah.. some of the companies/people use email to promote themselves, they are not even aware that they are Spamming.

But we cannot ignore the fact that within 24 hours one (if he/she is Spammer) can send millions of emails (yes it is possible with few Spam softwares) therefore need to be very careful after giving notice.

In this particular case, I think 24 hours notice is fine, since the client is having a dediacted server. 99.99/100 times, Spammers don't hire dediacted server to Spam.

99.99/100 times, Spammers don't hire dediacted server to Spam.

True, but they simply could test their host then plead ignorance. How many of your customers plead ignornance when they spam? To me, ignorance is no excuse if you yourself run a web hosting company.

Granted, there are some who really have no clue they did something wrong. Their response is usually "I just bought an Opt-in e-mail list". You know they had no clue becuse they spammed from "info@theirdomain.com"

True, but they simply could test their host then plead ignorance. How many of your customers plead ignornance when they spam?

Possibly... still our purpose is solved. No more spam.

If they were Spammer, they could have simply taken a small virtual account, and by the time you catch them they have sent more then million emails. They have a dedicated server, mentioned their company name in the email, with normal reply address etc. Which indicates that they might not be aware that they are doing something wrong or illegal.

To me, ignorance is no excuse if you yourself run a web hosting company

I am aware too that ignorance is not an excuse to break the law. What I mean to say was that being a web hosting company and being in this business from many years, we should be able to differentiate between spammers and people spammed by mistake.

Yes, i read it , and as i stated , this case is different since they are the server owner as well as the spammer. But still, idiots happen, people are nieve, for all we know this person who runs that company could be 13 years old, i've been in this industry for almost 6 years now, i started in it when i was 13 so i mean, i speak mostly from experience, when i say, people just don't think things throu sometimes! :)

Thank you.

If I get more spam from them, I'll be sure to post it here.

Umm...

I use this cool email client called MS Outlook Express....

Ya, okay it sucks but it works. But it has this neat feature; You can delete mail in your Inbox.

My God, people get so upset about Spam. Here is some breaking news. You get this stuff every day via Snail Mail. What do you do? I know what I do. I sift thru it in 2 minutes flat and THROW AWAY the Snail Mail Spam.

That's it. Just throw it away.

Not defending spam, but c'mon, it's just annoying, not life threataning.

That said, please feel free to attack....
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by thereismore
Umm...

I use this cool email client called MS Outlook Express....

Ya, okay it sucks but it works. But it has this neat feature; You can delete mail in your Inbox.

My God, people get so upset about Spam. Here is some breaking news. You get this stuff every day via Snail Mail. What do you do? I know what I do. I sift thru it in 2 minutes flat and THROW AWAY the Snail Mail Spam.

That's it. Just throw it away.

Not defending spam, but c'mon, it's just annoying, not life threataning.

That said, please feel free to attack....
:rolleyes:




WHOP ! !


There. . . .I feel better now...

:stickout

My GOD, I got Spammed!!!!!

Call the Pentagon, the FBI, and DO NOT forget the CIA.

:eek:

Originally posted by thereismore
My God, people get so upset about Spam. Here is some breaking news. You get this stuff every day via Snail Mail. What do you do? I know what I do. I sift thru it in 2 minutes flat and THROW AWAY the Snail Mail Spam.

There's one difference betwen snail mail spam ("Direct Mail") and email spam. If XYZ Corporation sends me direct mail, they pay. If XYZ Corporation sends me email spam, everyone pays. By everyone, I mean:

The owner of the server through which the spam was sent pays for bandwidth and loses a small portion of his server resources
My ISP pays for the bandwidth it takes to deliver spam to me
My server loses some of its valuable resources processing spam
My desktop computer's hard drive fills up more quickly (I get 50-70 spams per day)
I lose time determining if the spam is valid mail, deleting it, and adding the sender to my list of spammers


If XYZ Corp sent me direct mail:

They pay a marketing company to design the letter
They pay a printer to print out the letters and envelopes
They pay the post office to send the direct mail
I lose time sorting the mail and trashing the direct mail (although if it's computer-related I usually read it)

So as you can see, when I get spam, everyone pays. When I get direct mail, the company who sent it and I pay (although not as much as spam).

That's why I hate spam.

thereismore, 40 post. Non worth while.

PS - Why don't you send me a list of all your customers addresses. I know some host who would like to Spam them. We can just attach this genius idea you have to it.

thereismore, Do you like it when a telemarketers calls you at dinner time?????


Well I don't like looking at all the junk in my inbox while I'm reading important business emails.

Umm, Billy?

What do you think gives you the right to judge my 40 posts? Is it because I don't agree with your outlook on spam? I think not.

All I am saying, and it is my opinion and I am entitled to it, is that you accept Snail Mail Spam in your life. We all do. It's part of life in the 2000's. That's all.

If you disagree with all of my 40 posts, this is the first I have heard of it. And I certainly don't appreciate hearing about it from you this way.

Have a Nice Night.

NewOn,

No, I don't like them calling at dinner time. That's why, when they call, I tell them to put me on their Do Not Call List.

Then, I ask them for their company name and phone #.

Then, if they do ever call back, I can sue them.

Maybe we need the same thing for email spam.....Yah, a Do Not Call List for the internet.

What do you think gives you the right to judge my 40 posts? Is it because I don't agree with your outlook on spam? I think not.

All I am saying, and it is my opinion .....

And that was mine.

The one the gets me the most is this one you posted -

You guys kill me....

You all jump on the hottest thread on this forum and spew your supposed opinions all day and night...

How about the other "less exciting" threads???? Where you could actually HELP.....

I have been watching WHT for a while, but now I am actively speaking my opinion and will continue to do so...

I am amazed at how much time you guys spend in here...Are your hosting businesses running themselves???

Of course Spam is not life threatening but they are very harmful.

1. Imagine how much bandwidth is used everyday just because of Spam.

2. Country like India charges telephone call as per minutes, so if one received 100 Spam emails, he is paying considerable amount of money to download them for call and also for his dial-up connection (which is on hourly basis).

3. One may delete his/her important email with the whole bunch of Spam. Alternatively spend more time to sort those emails, which one is Spam and which one is not.

Time = Money

4. Hundred thousands of email addresses are no more valid and emails sent to those email addresses either bounce or return. Most of these spammer use invalid email address as well. I believe these all bounced, returned email are some where in the Internet environment. These are polluting our Internet environment and I will not be surprised if we see any "Green Internet Organization" in near future.

Ok, Mister 190 posts, I stand by that post. You seem to look for the hot threads. Merely an observation of my own. I take full responsibility for that post and I believe in it.

I think some members of this forum just look for a hot thread to post in. Goes with the territory and JMHO. I am sure that you think the same about me. But actually, I look for threads that are relevant to all of us. Just like this spam thread. I wouldn't post here if I didn't have something (hopefully valid) to say.

Do you disagree? I am more than happy to discuss it with you and hopefully find some middle ground.

Also,

I just want to say, definitively, that I do not think spam is appropriate. I do not.

I am not defending spam. I am only saying that it is here in a big way, and good luck getting rid of it.

My company never has, and never will, spam anybody.

I really do equate it to Snail Mail Spam, regardless of who pays for it.

Originally posted by thereismore
I am not defending spam. I am only saying that it is here in a big way, and good luck getting rid of it.

Actually, there are several steps towards getting rid of spam. Several US states have passed anti-spam laws (they require you to have ADV in the subject and not forge your identity), and every spam sent will have at least one US citizen. That's certainly a big step, and I bet that many other states and countries will pass similar laws.

Most ISPs are very receptive when you tell them that a customer is spamming. Sometimes, when I'm bored, I email or call ISPs whose customers are spamming me. I don't know if that has any effect, but I bet it does.

You can either say "Ah, we can't do anything about it", or "I wonder how I can fix it". I choose the second :)

Originally posted by thereismore
NewOn,

when they call, I tell them to put me on their Do Not Call List.





Next time you get spam, try to put yourself on that DO NOT CALL LIST and see what happens!!!!

i hate spams & spammers
i never understood the business stratergy of these spammers.in the end its waste of time at all ends.no one gains,all loses.
i think we are moving away form the core issue.

:confused:

Originally posted by ecomiscool.com
i hate spams & spammers
i never understood the business stratergy of these spammers.in the end its waste of time at all ends.no one gains,all loses.
i think we are moving away form the core issue.

:confused:

Disclaimer: This is not a defence of spammers, nor do I spam.

The business case is simple. It is exactly the same as the business case for sending mass direct mailings via snail mail - only better.

Lets say you send out 1 million spam messages to completely random email addresses. It would probably take about 12 hours to 2 days depending on how fast your system and network connection is.

Now if you get only 0.1% sales from those 1 million emails, your looking at

0.001 X 1000000 = 1000

1000 sales from your spam. (!)

That is why people spam, its easy, it costs them next to nothing and it gets responses, fast.

That is the positive side of the business case.

The negative side is that it can quickly piss off the other 99.9% of the people. It also ruin's your business reputation when you spam. If you spam often enough you will be added to blacklists and no email servers will carry messages to or from your addresses. Also, there are laws in some states (Oregon or California I believe, but don't quote me) that allow recievers to fine spammers for each message.

That is why most businesses don't spam.

Take care,

Brian

I really put a lot of blame on the BIG isp out there on spamming. AOL for instant. They give away free trials for access. Alot of those accounts are use for spamming. So what if AOL cancel those accounts. They already spammed. Yahoo and all the other free email sites are also to blame. There's nothing to pay if you spam using their services.

Big deal the accounts are canceled. Spammers just make more accounts.

I don't put much blame on the small guys. The big guys who have lots of says and impact should be more proactive of spammers.

You know I think we've pretty much agreed to disagree on this subject...

But I do have one small point to make on this post for any potential spammers out there who might be thinking of spamming me.

1. My manhood is plenty big enough already thank-you. :D
2. I do not want breast enhancements <G> :eek:
3. Being as I live in the UK, that 800 number is really useful thanks.. :eek:
4. Morgages?.. I rent, now go away...
5. I'm already rich in the ways that are important. Money ain't everything. :cool:

And this is the kicker...

6. If you spam me I guarantee I will never use your service ever. :stickout:

There I think that covers it...

Thanks
:D

Originally posted by thereismore
Umm...

I use this cool email client called MS Outlook Express....

Ya, okay it sucks but it works. But it has this neat feature; You can delete mail in your Inbox.

My God, people get so upset about Spam. Here is some breaking news. You get this stuff every day via Snail Mail. What do you do? I know what I do. I sift thru it in 2 minutes flat and THROW AWAY the Snail Mail Spam.

That's it. Just throw it away.

Not defending spam, but c'mon, it's just annoying, not life threataning.

That said, please feel free to attack....
:rolleyes:


yeah, but its a bummer when spam comes with large attachments and slows your downloads.. espcially when you're connecting on a PalmSize PC PDA on a 14.4k or 9600 GSM Celluar connction that cost's $$ per min!
:angry:

First off, some of you are correct that a host should not shut down a client in 5 minutes because most often the client is not aware that one of his "virtual" clients is violating policies and he needs time to find out who and remove his account. We have tried the "shut them down immediately" idea and it doesnt work because it isnt fair to the client so we no longer do that unless what they are doing is taking the network down like attempted ddos attacks etc. Second, our firewall only allows 200 of the same emails to go out so they wont be getting very many emails out. Third, this client only uses about 5k of bandwidth so even if he could send out a lot of email, he isnt. However, there have been times we have seen a customers server show the typical spammers mrtg graph with huge amounts of bandwidth - like 1mbit plus - and in this case they would be shutdown immediately - before we used th firewall, this happened on occasion - and it also happens that people use their servers as relay controllers and the spam is being sent from other servers used as relays - however, this still leaves the telltale mrtg signature graph for their bandwidth usages and is a very obvious clue - so again, this has to be approached on a customer to customer basis and based on what they are doing and how much bandwith they are using - this guy was not and did not and is not sending out very much email at all - if he was sending ridiculous amounts, we would have had to turn him off right away instead of giving him 24 hours.

Originally posted by thereismore
Umm...

I use this cool email client called MS Outlook Express....

Ya, okay it sucks but it works. But it has this neat feature; You can delete mail in your Inbox.

My God, people get so upset about Spam. Here is some breaking news. You get this stuff every day via Snail Mail. What do you do? I know what I do. I sift thru it in 2 minutes flat and THROW AWAY the Snail Mail Spam.

That's it. Just throw it away.

Not defending spam, but c'mon, it's just annoying, not life threataning.

That said, please feel free to attack....
:rolleyes:


This was a very ignorant statement. It's not about deleting spam, once it reaches its destination - it's about BANDWIDTH, SPACE, TIME that spam wastes.

--Tina

Originally posted by atjeu
Third, this client only uses about 5k of bandwidth so even if he could send out a lot of email, he isnt.

how much bandwith they are using - this guy was not and did not and is not sending out very much email at all - if he was sending ridiculous amounts, we would have had to turn him off right away instead of giving him 24 hours.


It has nothing at all to do with bandwidth.....basically, what your saying is:

"We allow them to spam as long as they don't use up too much of our bandwidth"

So what is your *magic* number that will have someone's account with you deleted!? They have to spam atleast 10,000 people and use atleast 1 GB of bandwidth?

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by brianc



yeah, but its a bummer when spam comes with large attachments and slows your downloads.. espcially when you're connecting on a PalmSize PC PDA on a 14.4k or 9600 GSM Celluar connction that cost's $$ per min!
:angry:


OH!!!!!!!!!!!! That's another thing that pisses me off about spam!!!! We have a pagesupport@ email address on our site - this actually alerts our pagers.

We've now started getting "paged" in the middle of the night. Not from customers having a crisis - but from IDIOT SPAMMERS who harvested all of the email addresses off our site!!!!!!!!!!!

--Tina

Originally posted by WebSnail.net
And this is the kicker...

6. If you spam me I guarantee I will never use your service ever. :stickout:[/B]

I use this same policy for telemarketers, well I did for a long time anyway. I now have to screen all calls because even though I have an unlisted, unpublished number I get 5-10 phone calls every day from telemarketers.

It's not effective for email spammers though as almost no legitimate business uses spam anymore. Unsolicited emails are very effective for their cost and until that changes, they are here to stay. Even if America and every other first world nation completely outlaw spam, many other countries will step into the void. I could see Zimbabwe's largest source of income become bulk mailers...heck, number four on their list is already that "I need to transfer $48,000,000 to your bank account and you can keep 25%" scam.


Edit: Forgot to mention one idea on killing spammers...an underground coalition that hits spamming servers with massive DOS attacks as soon as they are detected. I used to think this was a great idea until I realized that it usually isn't the servers' fault, just one rogue user.

In theory...

Let's say there are 100,000 email accounts at my ISP. Glad to be in alaska, 153 Mbits/sec via under-sea fiber optic cable is purchased for my ISP's network (I don't believe that is 'all-inclusive', but that includes cable and dial-up customers).

Now let's say company XYZ gets a hold of 60% of those addresses, that is 60,000 addresses. Now let's say company XYZ sends out an email that is 70 KBytes, twice a week (yes I have gotten emails that are 80 KB+ from spammers)

THat is equal to 3,360,000 Kbits of data at one mailing, in one second, 156,672 Kbits of data passes from Seattle, WA to Anchorage, AK via the bandwidth my ISP has purchased. If the email could come through all at once, without any other network traffic, the data would consume nearly 21.5 seconds of network traffic. In turn all traffic from Anchorage, and other cities which connect through anchorage (just about everyone) would have complete internet blackout for 21.5 seconds, plus the time to initiate communication with Anchorage, etc, then backlog traffic after the fact. The mail server would be backlogged writing the data to the server, or processing it as spam and having to reject the data, while users attempt to log in to their mailboxes.

Now imagine you're a dialup user, outside of anchorage, where phone line quality is not the best. Modem data via 56Kb/sec v90 modems can be something like 24-32 kbits/sec usually. Each user would spend additional 20+ seconds downloading the message, which would be thrown away. Not to mention the time to authenticate user ID/password and initiate file transfer.


Yes, this is all hypothetical and is 99.99% unlikely because noone lets one single connection take up the whole line, but regardless of how you spread the connection out, it's still going to slow things down, consume network resources and so on and so forth.

Now imagin the same situation in San Fransico, San Hose, etc. Millions of emails going in and out, web servers, communications systems etc, sharing several internet connections, but also being one of the West coast transfer points to asia.


Spam, or UCE, or whatever you want to call it, wastes everyone's time and money.

Originally posted by gnorthey00
In theory...

Let's say there are 100,000 email accounts at my ISP. Glad to be in alaska, 153 Mbits/sec via under-sea fiber optic cable is purchased for my ISP's network (I don't believe that is 'all-inclusive', but that includes cable and dial-up customers).


...

Spam, or UCE, or whatever you want to call it, wastes everyone's time and money.

Very well put. :)

I wonder what the costs would be for all that wasted time. Not that it can be accurately measured, but it would certainly be expensive. Thank goodness for Web based email - at least you don't have to download the whole message over dialup to realize its junk. (Of course your server does - but at least you don't.)

Take care,

Brian

I have all my spam defferred to a 'junk' account at my web site. It is always low priority mail.

I have been using my local ISP account for personal mail only. I never put it on mailing lists or anything of that nature, although occasionally I get forwards and I am sure spammers are 'farming' those forwards for email addresses. Since I set up this ISP account I have gotten one piece of "UCE" since, I believe, February.

I received a couple piece of spam to day from other webmaster.

It seems that they just search DNS record and just start emailing.(spam that is)

I never do biz with those company.

Let's put it this way. If they were willing to spam me to get by biz, what would stop them from spamming others to advertise mine?

:confused:

Just a thought.

develophost.com is still alive and kicking. (and probably still spamming)

My fravorite piece of spam was to my business email address. THe writer used a valid Yahoo account, without attempts to forge IP headers, etc. I wrote him back telling him that I was reporting him to abuse@yahoo.com and to his ISP. He responded by saying that he was not trying to sell me any thing, like "connecting buyers and sellers" is not selling anything for "just $99 per month". Instead, he had actually been looking for a place to go on vacation, and he has no ruled out Alaska. Good, one more empty airplane seat = maybe a decent tourist will take his place.

I just got a spam from someone who said he just visited my site and how wonderful it is. How professionals like us should work together, yadda, yadda.

Funny thing is, the domain email address he contacted me through hasn't had a website attached to it in almost a year.

--Tina