So I registered a domain for myself. A domain for personal use. I recieved a cold call today from Verio. They wanted to let me know that they have great hosting packages for my new domain.

I let the salesperson continue his pitch and then nicely advised him I received a completely free hosting package and that if he wanted to beat that, I'd listen.
Needless to say, the convo didn't last long.


I was kind of hoping he'd give me a few free months. :)


Anyone else been contact? Are they contacting my customers?
CS

Yes, we've gotten calls from them too. The calls typically don't last very long once they understand that we are a web host oursevles.

Anyhow, it's despicable how they mine the WHOIS database looking for new customers. Directly from Network Solutions WHOS page (http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois):


By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree to abide by the following terms of use: You agree that you may use this Data only for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail, telephone, or facsimile;

See, I didn't tell them I was a host. I figured it was better if I didn't and see what kind of package I could get off of them for free.
They didn't budge. :)

Those telemarketers earn commission probably. Why would they bother to give anyone anything free. I don't think they are that desparate for business.

Could someone please expalin to me what is wrong about solicating new business? As far as Verio mining WHOIS for business you are wrong. That's not where they get the numbers. The are numerous companies out there that sell leads.

The Verio telemarketers do earn a commission on there sales but they also have a starting salary of $30,000/year. They will never give away free hosting because it doesn't make good business sense.

It was also noted that the call doesn't last laong once they find out you are a hosting company. That is very true. They are not interested in wasting your time or theirs. They have many other prospects to call that are interested. That's how they sign over 200 new shared hosting customers every day.

My experience with Verio and companies like them is they are always polite and courteous. Even knowledgeable about their products and helpfull. That's a lot more than I can say for a lot of the members that post here.

well said dapon - my sentiments exactly.

We've gotten quite a few phone calls as well from various providers...we also get snail mail solicitations constantly trying to LURE us away from alabanza! aplusnet has sent I dont know how many "letters" trying to lure us directly away from ala.
Its annoying, for sure.

Originally posted by dapon
As far as Verio mining WHOIS for business you are wrong. That's not where they get the numbers. The are numerous companies out there that sell leads.


Well, if someone registers a domain name and then starts suddenly receiving cold calls about that domain name, the information must come from the WHOIS database, at some level. Perhaps VERIO isn't mining the WHOIS database directly, but they are paying someone who must be.

How else do you suppose they are getting such information, including the new domain name? You say I'm wrong - prove it.

Originally posted by Martie
we also get snail mail solicitations constantly trying to LURE us away from alabanza!

Ironic, one of the few webhosts to mail me personally was Alabanza :)

Greg Moore

Could someone please expalin to me what is wrong about solicating new business? As far as Verio mining WHOIS for business you are wrong. That's not where they get the numbers. The are numerous companies out there that sell leads.

I'll tell you what's wrong. Taking out an advertisement in a newspaper is soliciting new business. Improving your search rankings is soliciting new business.
Randomly calling people on the phone or sending out bulk email is spam. Nothing more nothing less.

Originally posted by Jay Suds
Well, if someone registers a domain name and then starts suddenly receiving cold calls about that domain name, the information must come from the WHOIS database, at some level. Perhaps VERIO isn't mining the WHOIS database directly, but they are paying someone who must be.

How else do you suppose they are getting such information, including the new domain name? You say I'm wrong - prove it.

I don't have to prove anything. Verio was sued in 1998 for this very thing by Register.com. If you look on Google I'm sure you can find the case. After a lengthy and costly court battle by both sides they both won a little and both lost a little. My pint is, if the courts looked at this and Verio is still doing it, it must be legal. Do you think a company would fight this battle and then go ahead and break the law anyway? Don't you think Register.com would be all over Verio right now if they were still breaking the law?

The problem with a lot of hosting companies, and I don't mean you personally Jay Suds. I don't know anything about you, is that they can't see the forrest because of the trees. What Verio and Dell hosting and some of the other big guys do is so simple that people can't figure it out. It's like a magic trick. Looks pretty amazing until you find out the secrtet and then you wonder why you didn't figure it out on your own, it's so simple to do.

I worked for Verio for quite a while. Worked my way up to management. Know a lot about the inner workings of their sales team. Now I have my own company and am following the same practices that worked for them. So if one of my people call you about hosting I hope you will be nice to them and tell them you aren't interested so they can spend their time productively with prospects that might need our services.

I will get my leads the same way that Verio does and it isn't by mining WHOIS. And if you think any differently then I believe it's up to you to prove it.

Originally posted by akashik
Ironic, one of the few webhosts to mail me personally was Alabanza :)

Greg Moore

I think its pretty safe to say they will all do it at some point.

Originally posted by dapon
I don't have to prove anything. Verio was sued in 1998 for this very thing by Register.com. If you look on Google I'm sure you can find the case. After a lengthy and costly court battle by both sides they both won a little and both lost a little. My pint is, if the courts looked at this and Verio is still doing it, it must be legal. Do you think a company would fight this battle and then go ahead and break the law anyway? Don't you think Register.com would be all over Verio right now if they were still breaking the law?


1998 huh? Try more like 2000 going into 2001: http://www.icann.org/registrars/register.com-verio/order-08dec00.htm

http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/532131


The problem with a lot of hosting companies, and I don't mean you personally Jay Suds. I don't know anything about you, is that they can't see the forrest because of the trees. What Verio and Dell hosting and some of the other big guys do is so simple that people can't figure it out. It's like a magic trick. Looks pretty amazing until you find out the secrtet and then you wonder why you didn't figure it out on your own, it's so simple to do.


Yes, it's as simple as poaching the WHOIS database and then making an automated phone system to call people who have newly registered domain names.


I worked for Verio for quite a while. Worked my way up to management. Know a lot about the inner workings of their sales team. Now I have my own company and am following the same practices that worked for them. So if one of my people call you about hosting I hope you will be nice to them and tell them you aren't interested so they can spend their time productively with prospects that might need our services.

I will get my leads the same way that Verio does and it isn't by mining WHOIS. And if you think any differently then I believe it's up to you to prove it. [/B]

Given Verio's past history, it's up to you to provide proof that they are no longer using these business practices. Since you were a sales manager at Verio, I assume that you would be able to provide some proof, if any actually existed. Simply put, I'm still challenging you to prove it. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I'm not going to say otherwise until you provide some real proof.

Best of luck to you with your hosting venture. If you or your sales people call me, I'll nice the first time around and tell them no thanks. If they persist and call me repeatedly, I make no gaurantees ;)

Originally posted by Jay Suds
1998 huh? Try more like 2000 going into 2001: http://www.icann.org/registrars/register.com-verio/order-08dec00.htm

http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/532131



Yes, it's as simple as poaching the WHOIS database and then making an automated phone system to call people who have newly registered domain names.



Given Verio's past history, it's up to you to provide proof that they are no longer using these business practices. Since you were a sales manager at Verio, I assume that you would be able to provide some proof, if any actually existed. Simply put, I'm still challenging you to prove it. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I'm not going to say otherwise until you provide some real proof.

Best of luck to you with your hosting venture. If you or your sales people call me, I'll nice the first time around and tell them no thanks. If they persist and call me repeatedly, I make no gaurantees ;)

Jay, sounds like you have a big chip on your shoulder about something. If you read the article you posted you will see that is when the injunction was issued. The the threat of a law suit started in 1998.

I donj't have to prove anything about Verio since I know longer work there, but they are still doing it and are very sucessfull at it so I don't think they are worried about a law suit. I don't know anything about your company, but I doubt that Verio is concerned about whether or not you agree with their business practices, and frankly neither do I. Verio hosts over 750,000 shared customers. How many do you host? I think I will do what Verio does.

And I will make you a promise, as long as you are polite to my salespeople the firts time and tell them you aren't interested, you won't receive anymore calls. I have a great CRM that has a great "Do not call" fgeature. I am in this business to make money, not to harass people and run up my phone bill calling people that don't want to be called.

I am not here to argue with you. You run your business your way, I will run mine my way, and Verio will run theirs there way. I wish you luck with your endevors and hope it goes well for you.:)

Originally posted by dapon
Jay, sounds like you have a big chip on your shoulder about something. If you read the article you posted you will see that is when the injunction was issued. The the threat of a law suit started in 1998.

I donj't have to prove anything about Verio since I know longer work there, but they are still doing it and are very sucessfull at it so I don't think they are worried about a law suit. I don't know anything about your company, but I doubt that Verio is concerned about whether or not you agree with their business practices, and frankly neither do I. Verio hosts over 750,000 shared customers. How many do you host? I think I will do what Verio does.

And I will make you a promise, as long as you are polite to my salespeople the firts time and tell them you aren't interested, you won't receive anymore calls. I have a great CRM that has a great "Do not call" fgeature. I am in this business to make money, not to harass people and run up my phone bill calling people that don't want to be called.

I am not here to argue with you. You run your business your way, I will run mine my way, and Verio will run theirs there way. I wish you luck with your endevors and hope it goes well for you.:)

I don't think I have a chip on my shoulder. I'm just not buying your story that Verio doesn't continue to raid the WHOIS database. For whatever reason, you can't or won't back up your claim with any factual evidence.

Anyhow, this is also a good read - http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/430351. It says that the register.com dispute with Verio started around January 2000 ;)

Originally posted by Jay Suds
I don't think I have a chip on my shoulder. I'm just not buying your story that Verio doesn't continue to raid the WHOIS database. For whatever reason, you can't or won't back up your claim with any factual evidence.

Anyhow, this is also a good read - http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/430351. It says that the register.com dispute with Verio started around January 2000 ;)


It doesn't really matter when it was started or when/if it was resolved. Dapon, your argument is that if they thought they were doing something wrong they would'nt do it. That is not the way a lot of these big companies work at all. Law suits mean nothing to them, they get swept under the rug and they continue business as usual. Ever hear of microsoft?

And I will make you a promise, as long as you are polite to my salespeople the firts time and tell them you aren't interested, you won't receive anymore calls.

There's a double-glazing company around here that was *constantly* calling me to ask if I want to buy double-glazing from them. I made repeated complaints and I *still* get a periodic telephone call.

What is astonishing is that it is the exact same company that fully double-glazed my home! Suffice to say I won;t be buying from that company again...

I had Verio calling a few of my new customers about 2 years ago, one even let me listen to the message on the answering machine :) I thought it was kind of odd back then that a large company would be calling new domain owners but maybe that's how they got so big?

Originally posted by blue27
It doesn't really matter when it was started or when/if it was resolved. Dapon, your argument is that if they thought they were doing something wrong they would'nt do it. That is not the way a lot of these big companies work at all. Law suits mean nothing to them, they get swept under the rug and they continue business as usual. Ever hear of microsoft?

You're right about it not mattering when it started. I can tell youi from my experience at Verio the trouble started in 1998. I won't go into all the details in a public forum but I can tell you I probably know more about the inside workings of Verio than anyone here since I was in management there.

I can tell you with out a doubt that there are sights on the internet right now that will sell you 3 day old domain registration leads. I personally know where Verio gets the their leads from because I buy mine from the same company.

I can also tell you that lawsuits do hurt companies.. It affected the way we did business at Verio. Sales went down at first....but like any aggressive company we found another way to do business. A way that is legal and profitable.

Jay, I don't know why you think I have to prove that Verio isn't breaking the law. Register.com is satisfied they aren't and in reality that is all that matters. Since you are the one making the claim that they are breaking the law it is up to you to prove it. Remember, innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Also know that while we have had this banter back and forth Verio has signed up another 75 to 100 customers using the same method they have used since 1/2000. And hey will do it tomorrow and the next day and the next day and so on...

Tallon, that is exactly how they got so big. They aren't afraid to call and ask for business.

I, Brian, We will only call once. As I stated earlier, it's not worth our time to call more than once if you aren't interested.

Besides this has gotten off track. My original point is still the same...What's wrong with solicating business? Some people are content with having business come to them and others go and get the business. Verio doesn't pay people a $30,000/salary to sit and wait for the phone to ring.

So, unless you you want to tell me what is wrong with solicating business I have nothing more to say about Verio or my companies cold calling practices. Oh...I will say this...if one of my salespeole call you twice let me know right away and we will have a public hanging in our parking lot at noon on the following Friday. That should satisfy those of you that are against trying to increase your business with the telephone.

Dale, we all know that lists are available to buy. I question the ethics of the people who buy them no less than the ethics of the people who sell them.
I would never do business with someone who sent me an unsolicited email or an unsolicited telephone call. That's just my opinion.
Obviously many people do business with these solicitors or they wouldn't exist.
Some people will give your staff a hard time when they call because they are frustrated by the amount of unsolicited calls/emails. There are far too many companies out there using the practice.
I wouldn't give your staff a hard time personally, they are just a bunch of people trying to earn a living, just like be. I prefer to engage them in very long and drawn out discussions. I know as long as they are talking to me they are not making money for their company.

Yep, they called me about a year ago when I took administration rights to a e-commerce site.

Originally posted by blue27
Dale, we all know that lists are available to buy. I question the ethics of the people who buy them no less than the ethics of the people who sell them.
I would never do business with someone who sent me an unsolicited email or an unsolicited telephone call. That's just my opinion.
Obviously many people do business with these solicitors or they wouldn't exist.
Some people will give your staff a hard time when they call because they are frustrated by the amount of unsolicited calls/emails. There are far too many companies out there using the practice.
I wouldn't give your staff a hard time personally, they are just a bunch of people trying to earn a living, just like be. I prefer to engage them in very long and drawn out discussions. I know as long as they are talking to me they are not making money for their company.

I don't disagree with most of what you say. I have done telephone sales since I got out of college and became a commodities broker. I did it as an investment banker and for Verio. It has paid for all of my toys, my properties, and even provides a very comfortable life for my ex-wife.:)

I don't find it unethical and believe it or not don't really run into many rude people. That may be because I do it in a very proffessional manner and teach my staff the same thing. I will not tolerate any of my employess being rude or harrassing people on the phone. If someone is rude to them or me we say,"Sorry to bother you... I will add your name to our do not call list... and have a nice day". That's it. We are always polite and courteous.

And I will tell you it does work. Oh... we do not ever SPAM. It is grounds for termination. And we don't call past 5:00pm PST. We try to only call business so we don't bug you at dinner time.

How do you get your new business? I am curious to know.

Originally posted by dapon

I can tell you with out a doubt that there are sights on the internet right now that will sell you 3 day old domain registration leads. I personally know where Verio gets the their leads from because I buy mine from the same company.

....

Tallon, that is exactly how they got so big. They aren't afraid to call and ask for business.


Right ... so Verio (and yourself) are just one step removed. You don't actually raid the WHOIS database yourself, you pay someone else to do it for you.

And about Verio being so large - they lost over a billion dollars between FY2001 and FY2002. They've cut their staff over 50%. Yah, I wanna be like Verio :uhh:

How do you get your new business? I am curious to know.

Don't have a business just yet but I will soon. My plan is to do local advertising in the beginning and as business grows put some money towards improving search engine placements etc.
I see no reason why a business can't do well through customer referrals. It may take longer but I'm a patient person.

Originally posted by Jay Suds
Right ... so Verio (and yourself) are just one step removed. You don't actually raid the WHOIS database yourself, you pay someone else to do it for you.

And about Verio being so large - they lost over a billion dollars between FY2001 and FY2002. They've cut their staff over 50%. Yah, I wanna be like Verio :uhh:

Jay, why do you insist on carrying on this Verio debate? I don't work there anymore. They were very good to me while I did. I made more in stock options in 1 year than most people make in 20 years of working. So in that aspect I am loyal to them.

As far as losing money you don't know a whole about the Verio story do you? Did you know that after 4 years of being in business they were the largest shared hosting company in the world and in May of 2000 sold out for $5.5billion in cash. On that day Verio stock was selling for about $20/share. NTT paid $68/share.

So Jay, after 4 years in business if you can sell out for $5.5 billion then you can tell me what success is. There wasn't a single Verio employee at that time that didn't make a lot of money in stock options. We had people that had been with the company less than a month that made more than a years salary in stocks.

As far as losing money now you would have to understand how business writes off things to know what you see isn't what you get. Sure, for NTT it is a loss. They just paid $5.5 billion for a company at the height of the dot com market.

But the bottom line is Justin Jaschke built a company in four years that he was able to sell for $5.5 billion. Yeah, Jay, I would call that a sucess story.

Now unless you have a personal story that is better than that lets drop this, OK? But if you do I will say that you are the "Man" and come mow your lawn and wash your car on weekends.:D

Haha, no better stories than that ;) Glad to hear that you did so well on the stock option too.

I have to agree with jay suds, we get letters and calls from verio about hosting domain names.

I find it intrusive. And they will contact you again when the next domain name is registered.

But verio's not the only one doing it.

People are mining the whois database information, whether we like it or not, and whether we would do it or not.

The Verio method is invasive marketing. But it's a common method. Electoral lists are a common source of addresses for postal marketing (junk mail), and phone books for nuisance calls.

What I would recommend to people is to register their domains through somewhere like www.gandi.net - because the only information that will show up on WHOIS is your Gandi ID - no phone, address, or even your name.

Originally posted by I, Brian
The Verio method is invasive marketing. But it's a common method. Electoral lists are a common source of addresses for postal marketing (junk mail), and phone books for nuisance calls.

What I would recommend to people is to register their domains through somewhere like www.gandi.net - because the only information that will show up on WHOIS is your Gandi ID - no phone, address, or even your name.

Great suggestion I, Brian. I don't want to start a debate about Verio so I am switching to AT&T or MCI as an example. If telemarketing didn't work do you think they would waste the time and money to do it? Of course not. The mistake people make is that everyone feels the same way as they do about stuff.

There are many, many people out there that will gladly buy from a phone solicater. If you dial the phone 75 times a day you will talk to aprox. 30 people. 20 won't be interested, 5 to 7 want a call back it some other date and 3 to 5 will buy from you. It's a numbers game.

This isn't something that will stop anytime soon. Because it works. So if you don't want to be bothered you have to figure out a way to keep your contact info private. And as I have said before, we really don't want to waste our time calling people that aren't interested. It's just a reality of the business. And we do everything we can to make sure we don't call you twice. Our CRM even does a good job at cross referencing phone numbers.

Try to remember taht there are proffesional comapnies out there that try to follow the law to the letter. Don't group all phone soilicaters in one group. It would be like me grouping all web hosting companies into one group here. There are a lot of bad ones, a lot of unproffessional ones, and some piss pour run ones. But it doesn't mean they all are. Thanks for letting me vent.

Oh, it's not whether it's legal or not that's the issue. But these companies really ought to realise that they can damage their reputation doing so. As stated earlier, the double-glazing company will not be getting any orders from me again. Also note that I was considering opening an account with Verio. After hearing about this issue I have decided to avoid doing business with them.

If telemarketing didn't work do you think they would waste the time and money to do it? Of course not. The mistake people make is that everyone feels the same way as they do about stuff.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but here in the UK it's just a low cost minimum wage high-turnover strategy. So long as the numbers at least pay for the sales-team... . But even then we're still talking higher cancellation rate of plans. That was my own experience ni the insurance/pensions industry, when I did a few months in a company that claimed far more than it ever should have.

Anyway, it would perhaps be a little ridiculous to posture about morality when dealing with sales and business. It isn't about rights and wrongs. But maintaining the long-term success of the company should be an issue.

Perhaps invasive marketing worked for Verio - but for others it will fail. Note how WHT censors companies that spam? Perhaps there should be a recommendation that Verio itself be censored? There is also the danger of your own company becoming rendered as www.********.com.

Also note what would happen if Verio was considered as spamming by other major internet organisations - imagining how clients would feel if they found the user IP blocks were all black-listed on spam filters?

This isn't at all meant to be a threat - it's a discussion scenario to consider. Especially when you consider the general rising hostility to invasive marketing in general (we have anti-spam laws undergoing serious consideration here in th UK).

I'm not trying to sound antagonistic at all towards Verio or your own company, but they have come up as examples, that's all.

There are different kinds of marketing. I don't say that one sort is right and another wrong. But different marketing approaches may have difference long-term consequences. As the internet changes so do marketing strategies. There is an utter difference in magnitude between internet invasive marketing in say, 1998 - and how it is received in 2003. What worked then, when the net was small and somewhat more intimate, is far difference to the utterly over-flooded state that it is in now.

I simply suggest that any company bears this in mind when defining their current and long-term trend marketing analysis.

[/soapbox] ;)

Thanks for letting me vent.

Hey, I find it a good discussion. I enjoy anything about marketing.

This isn't at all meant to be a threat - it's a discussion scenario to consider. Especially when you consider the general rising hostility to invasive marketing in general (we have anti-spam laws undergoing serious consideration here in th UK).

I don't take it as a threat. I enjoy the input and actually listen to what is being said.

I don't want to sound disrespectfull but I don't come to this board for business. It isn't the market I target. I will not SPAM anyone and as far as I know telemarketing isn't illegal ....yet. May be some day soon.

As far as Verio being banned here, they may be. I don't know and don't care. I do know that it wouldn't affect their business or business practices in anyway. During my time at Verio I never even heard of WHTalk. We were to busy selling hosting to read forums. And Verio does not SPAM.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but here in the UK it's just a low cost minimum wage high-turnover strategy. So long as the numbers at least pay for the sales-team The starting salary for a new sales rep at Verio is $30,000/ year. First year earnings are about $55 to $60,000. Far from min. wage. Most senior reps make into the 6 figure range. Don't know about the UK but in the states that is a pretty comfortable living.

I know the business climate is changing. It is nothing like 1998. Back then selling hosting was very easy. Everyone wanted it. I made a lot of money in those days. Everyone in this company has years of experience in the hosting industry. We know that changes are coming. We are smart enough to have a plan for that day.

I am not some kid hosting out of a spare bedroom. Anyone is welcome to come by my office if they are in CA. I am 2 blocks from the Ontario, CA airport. I am in this for the long hall. I can change with the times, and profit.

But for now I am doing what works. I am doing just fine. I have a business plan and am following it and although I have had some delays with my sight I am still ahead of schedule. This is one of those times that my Business Degree is helping out. That and my experience.

But I appreciatte your input I, Brian. I don't take anything posted on any board personal as long as it is about business. That is the only reason I come here. I'm definitely not bottom feeding for business here. As a matter of fact I have only mentioned hosting a site here once and it wasn't really a solicatation. So please, bring it on. Give me your input. :)

I want them to call me, lol

Originally posted by ub3r
I want them to call me, lol

You wouldn't believe how many business out there think that it works that away. Put up a website and wait for the money to roll in. Sokme even go out and buy a new wheelbarrow so they have someway to get the money to the bank:D

i have 2 web sites online, i didn't publish my phone number in my whois records though.

Originally posted by ub3r
i have 2 web sites online, i didn't publish my phone number in my whois records though.


:D It doesn't matter. We will find your number and call you at all hours of the night until we wear you down and you buy from us. We have ways of making you buy. Your efforts are futile against us.:stickout:

Heck, if nothing else my post count is increasing here.

Coming in July, the National Do-Not-Call Registry.

After the law takes effect, a consumer who receives a telemarketing call despite being on the registry will be able to file a complaint with the FTC, either online or by calling a toll-free number. Violators could be fined up to $11,000 per incident.

Better hope you have an accurate phone list with only businesses and not consumers.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/calling.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/donotcall/businfo.html

verio..hrrm dont they get enough traffic as is? Why do they need to solicite by calling? I mean they can just advertise there plans with buying domains or whatever and that should be a good point

I don't want to sound disrespectfull but I don't come to this board for business. It isn't the market I target.

Not a bad thing - look around and you'll see a lot of hosts with with a post count of 1000+ who won't use their link in their sig. Somehow you'd think that implies WHT attracts a lot of troublesome customers. ;)

I will not SPAM anyone and as far as I know telemarketing isn't illegal ....yet. May be some day soon.


The reference to spam was a way of indicating how the net in general has been turning very hard against the issue. So long as Verio and your own company are not using bulk e-mail marketing then there is no reason to imagine they'd get censored at WHT. I was porbably articulating badly there.

My point was, though, that it could be important to note the original hostility in this thread - to the notion of any company mining WHOIS to obtain contact details for marketing purposes.

Although telemarketing in general has been seen as a growth market over the past couple of years, it's not the most customer friendly form of marketing.

And couple that with the hostility to mining WHOIS in this thread, I'd suggest there's a future backlash in the making - just as there has been with spam. Perhaps it'll take a couple more years for it to become a nuisance issue - but perhaps significant internet groups will attempt to tackle the issue earlier.

Either way, a trend to watch for.

And couple that with the hostility to mining WHOIS in this thread, I'd suggest there's a future backlash in the making - just as there has been with spam. Perhaps it'll take a couple more years for it to become a nuisance issue - but perhaps significant internet groups will attempt to tackle the issue earlier.

I understand what you are saying. Don't think that I am limited to one way of getting new business. Any company that sits back and doesn't look to the future is detined to fail.

Not a bad thing - look around and you'll see a lot of hosts with with a post count of 1000+ who won't use their link in their sig. Somehow you'd think that implies WHT attracts a lot of troublesome customers.
Maybe I should look to that as an indication. I think I will take any link out of my signature. I am here to keep abreast of what's happening in the hosting world, not for business. I am always willing to learn from those who are sucessfull.:idea:

I don't think we've ever gotten a customer from these forums, at least not that I can track. Including fraudulent ones.

However, I'm a web host, and this is web hosting talk. I'm not taking the name of the host that I'm proud to represent out of my signature. :)

However, when I post about non-hosting related stuff, I do uncheck the box that says "Show Signature". When I think about it.

Originally posted by bitserve
I don't think we've ever gotten a customer from these forums, at least not that I can track. Including fraudulent ones.

However, I'm a web host, and this is web hosting talk. I'm not taking the name of the host that I'm proud to represent out of my signature. :)

However, when I post about non-hosting related stuff, I do uncheck the box that says "Show Signature". When I think about it.

{probably a better idea Bit serve. This has nothing to do with being proud of my company. I love my company and I love this business or I would do something else. I highly believe that you should love your job, if not find a new one.:cool:

Dale,

Any idea if telemarketing is still working as good these days, as it is totally different than it was in 1998. Did Verio ever call customers that were already hosting at companies that you thought had a bad rep and were likely wanting to switch?

Thanks
Curtis

I personally don't think the whole idea of telemarketing sounds all that bad. If it works do it, if it will help your business grow, then do it, it is pretty simple. If I had the time and resources to do it I would be, as I would like to see my business grow further, and if telemarketing works the so be it when I have the resources to try it I will do so in the name of gaining new business.

Originally posted by Curtis Stevens
Dale,

Any idea if telemarketing is still working as good these days, as it is totally different than it was in 1998. Did Verio ever call customers that were already hosting at companies that you thought had a bad rep and were likely wanting to switch?

Thanks
Curtis

Curtis, It has changed since 1998. But it is still a very effective way of doing business. At Verio we called on customers who were already hosted occasionally. And believe it or not we converted a large number of those to Verio customers. It's easy when you take price out of the equation, and that's what we were trained to do.

Most business would rather have peace of mind than save a couple of dollars a month. We never bad mouthed another company, we just highlighted Verio's positive side. If you forget about price for a minute then Verio looks pretty darned good. If you look at all of the pluses and all of the minus of a company like Verio the pluses win.

Think of it this way, you could host with any company and they all charged the same wouldn't Verio look good. I have said it before, at Verio we never sold price, we sold ourselves and Verio.

Say what you want, but they have over half a million hosting customers. What they do works whether you like it or agree with it. And it continues to work today.

My business is run the same way. Why change something that works? One of the ways we get new business is on the telephone. It works great for us. We do other things as well but phone sales is an inexpensive way to increase business. We do it in a very proffesional manner and contrary to popular belief 99% of the people we call are polite and listen to what we have to say. Of course they don't all buy from us but enough do that it is worth while to do.

I know this is an unpopular opinion here but at least I will stand up and say I do it. I don't tell anyone how to run thier business and I don't want anyone telling me how to run mine. I won't say any names but since this thread has started I have had several emails and PM's asking me about it. Actually more than several. So it's not as taboo as you might think.

People are interested in increasing thier business in a cost effective way. This is one way to do that. It's not for everyone and not everyone could do it. You have to have sales skills and a lot of hosts I see here are techs, not sales people.

But thanks for asking Curtis. I hope I answered some of your question.

I don't have a problem with telemarketing so much as I do with mining the whois database for personal data for your telemarketing.

What if you don't mine the whois data base? Then is it OK with you bitserve?

I started a thread with 47 posts! woohoo! :)
Just kidding. I like what alot have said. There are a few people that seem a little bitter about verio.
Heck, I was just hoping to play with this guy and get him to make me an incredible offer! ;)
I've been in sales and marketing going on 10 years.. I always love a good sales call.

Originally posted by NotAfraid
I started a thread with 47 posts! woohoo! :)
Just kidding. I like what alot have said. There are a few people that seem a little bitter about verio.
Heck, I was just hoping to play with this guy and get him to make me an incredible offer! ;)
I've been in sales and marketing going on 10 years.. I always love a good sales call.

Good job NotAfraid. This has helped my post count too. Thanks. A lot of people are bitter their not smart enough to do what Verio did.

Originally posted by dapon
How do you get your new business? I am curious to know.
Word of mouth from existing clients. :)

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Word of mouth from existing clients. :)

Those are the best customers since they tend to be more loyal than any other customer you get. Refferal business is by far the most cost effective. The only cost is good service. Good service, now there's a concept.

Originally posted by dapon
What if you don't mine the whois data base? Then is it OK with you bitserve?

Of course it's okay with me. We sometimes do spurts of telemarketing, but only to local businesses. We use the phone book. It's easy to find businesses who don't have a web presence, domain name, or ones that need a redesign with just the business pages and a web search.

Originally posted by bitserve
Of course it's okay with me. We sometimes do spurts of telemarketing, but only to local businesses. We use the phone book. It's easy to find businesses who don't have a web presence, domain name, or ones that need a redesign with just the business pages and a web search.

We use the phonebook as well as other lead sources such as Dunn and Bradstreet and Web marketing to name a few. They can be expensive though. D & B charges $1.30/name and they aren't necessarily hosting prospects. Fortunatly they can be used for another business we have. The IRS SIC codes aren't very accurate for hosting companies yet. and they want $1.25/name for those. Waste of money.