dont know if anyone has noticed. but enom are doing .uk registrations now...

$5.99/yr on $6.95 reseller accounts
$7.99/yr on $8.95 reseller accounts
$14.99/yr on normal accounts.

below is from enom

.CO.UK and .ORG.UK are now live.
Currently, contact information modifications are not immediate.
For transfers, please use the FAX process.
.UK names require a minimum of 2 name servers. Name servers changes/updates may take up to half an hour.
Please review our Registration Agreement for .UK specific legal information.
First time registrations of all .UK names have a 2 year minimum

they even ask you if your an individual and want to stop your information from being in the whois.nic.uk database..

neat! :p

prices arnt too bad on $6.95 reseller accounts.. about 50pence a year more expensive than www.123-reg.co.uk - (cheapest in uk with good features on there accounts)

anyway.. me audi
Darren

I dont like third level domains.
I would like to see $6.95 price for second level .uk :D

Originally posted by Vladimir S.
I dont like third level domains.
I would like to see $6.95 price for second level .uk :D

is impossible to get a 2nd level domain under .uk .. shame i didnt register names before nominet took it over ;(

The enom .uk price is too expensive for resellers, enom are charging $11.98 which is about £7.45 - on average UK registrars charge around £10 while the likes of xReg.co.uk charge £8.88 and 123reg charge £6.09 at retail!

The nominet charge is £5.87 which is around $9.45, so they are making $2.53 a registration where they only make $.95 on .com registrations! The enom price does not give uk enom resellers a good enough margin to compete!

blob2, enom lowest price is $5.99.

.uk domains can only be registered for two years at a time.

Nominet charge £5.xx for the registration but there's also a Nominet membership fee of £400 a year I think.

Also, don't forget that with most of Enom's other TLDs the process is fairly automated. With .uk transfers have to be faxed and registration has to be through PGP encrypted email submissions - a novel idea at the time but a bit past its day now when real-time systems are running most other TLDs.

Basically, .uk domains are more expensive to sell because of all these other costs.

Don't forget, all the cool little Enom features such as the website builder and Dynamic DNS service are included in their service, not many other providers in the UK offer all the Enom features as standard. These features are particularly attractive to new net users who are taken in by cool little freebies on their account.

.uk domain transfers do not have to be faxed, its called IPS Tag changes which can be done over the automaton making it totally automated. Its just enom have not got around to adding this feature to their system.

Its true in what you say though, but at the end of the day the consumer is going to be attracted by the lower price offered by UK registrars and UK enom resellers just cant compete with .uk at the current price.

Enom's current price is a retail price, not a reseller price.

I have a Enom reseller account. Personally, if I need to register .uk domains myself, I would try 123-reg. However, if my client wants to get .uk names, I have no choice and still register it for him thru Enom..

Enom is a good place to start selling domain name.

Originally posted by Vladimir S.
I dont like third level domains.
I would like to see $6.95 price for second level .uk :D

LOL... me too - or why not bring back .gb registrations !!:D

RegistlyFly is already selling the .co.uk names, I just got an e-mail.

RegistlyFly (enom reseller) is selling it for $6.99

Originally posted by Toeki
RegistlyFly (enom reseller) is selling it for $6.99

You mean $13.98 :rolleyes:

go and check out RegisterFly and you will see the $6.99 sale for the .uk domains

Registerfly are falsely advertising an annual price as .uk names can only be registered for two years at a time, there is no exceptions for this rule.

You pay your registration fee every two years! So the price is $13.98.

No - in their ad they state 2 year minimum required

No, this is different. For example, .nu domain names can be registered from 1-10 years although there is an initial 2 year minimum registration required. However you can renew your .nu name from 1-9 years.

.uk names can only be registered for 2 years at a time, as you renew your .uk name every 2 years for 2 years.

Please read up on .uk names at the nominet web site www.nominet.org.uk before you make statements.

so what they are trying to say is its $6.99 per year but you have to pay for 2 years.. right?

Yes, correct. That is why I said in my eariler post that the price is $13.98 to register a .uk name with registerfly.

Enom appear to still be ironing out a few bugs with the .co.uk lookups etc.
The comments about it being expensive are fairly close to the mark. To be a member it costs them around £500 to join and then £100 a year after that. I think the base price is around £5 for 2 years. So they are definatly making a couple of £ per registration. I suppose they will eventually lower the prices once they recover their costs for development etc.

I'm sure enom can spare £500 in startup costs without any trouble :-) lol

Exactly, meaning the prices are a bit high imho.

I doubt that they would lower .uk pricing, just look at the way they doubled the .ws pricing.

Ah, yes. Sorry, slightly misread your comments. Good point.

What i meant for development costs was the cost of the programming time to implent registrations, transfers, updates etc into their website. Nominet is still pgp email based for registrations and still do a lot of other administration via fax. It probably caused enom a few headaches. I have been testing it today with a few UK domains and it looks like they may still be working on a few areas to get it all working 100%.

Nominet charge £5.xx for the registration but there's also a Nominet membership fee of £400 a year I think.

Nope £400 to join and £100 a year thereafter, this allows you to use the automoton and subject to credit terms allows you to register domains directly else it costs you £80 + VAT per 2 years

Basically, .uk domains are more expensive to sell because of all these other costs.

Also the fact that under the VAT ruling tax is charged on all UK domains at 17.5% no matter where you are located as it is deemed the UK is the point of origin so the price quoted from Nominet has to include this tax.

Next point is Enom is NOT a reseller they are deemed to be an agent of Nominet as are all IPSTAG holders, there is no price differential between someone who sells 200,000 domains and those tagholders that sell 10 so Enom will find it difficult to compete with established businesses. Your contract is with Nominet NOT Enom - be aware of this!!!

Quoting a yearly price is wrong and misleading ( as already established), you cannot register a UK domain for anything but 2 years.

<Nominet member>

Nominet may charge VAT on all of the domain sales no matter where they are located. But companies located outside the EU can claim the VAT back from HMCE.

Adam

Hi,

Does anybody know when eNom will be supporting .co.uk transfers with a simple IPSTAG change?

That'd be real useful for us - we have about 150 domains with 123-reg :)

ag-webdesign,
Goldwing:

It is interesting that VAT is charged. I had a visit from a VAT inspector and he told me that VAT cannot be claimed back unless there is an invoice Sterling stating the amount of VAT.

With Enom being based in the US and all their pricing in Dollars how could someone who is eligible to claim back VAT possibly do so?

It is interesting that VAT is charged. I had a visit from a VAT inspector and he told me that VAT cannot be claimed back unless there is an invoice Sterling stating the amount of VAT.

Hmmm.. pretty sure it does not need to be in Sterling but may be wrong, but yes you need an invoice to show the separate VAT amount, and how Enom are going to acheive this is going to be interesting

Opensrs who have been doing UK registrations for some time, offer to provide the paperwork to reclaim VAT, as I do my own reg I have never had to find out how this works.

Nominet may charge VAT on all of the domain sales no matter where they are located. But companies located outside the EU can claim the VAT back from HMCE.

Correct, if you are outside the EU ( different situation if within the EU) however the system is complex and unfriendly, interesting to note Enom does not even seem to mention it.

Originally posted by Goldwing
Hmmm.. pretty sure it does not need to be in Sterling but may be wrong, but yes you need an invoice to show the separate VAT amount, and how Enom are going to acheive this is going to be interesting

Opensrs who have been doing UK registrations for some time, offer to provide the paperwork to reclaim VAT, as I do my own reg I have never had to find out how this works.

I cant see how this would be done. For example you register a name with enom, nominet invoice enom £5+VAT (£5.87), enom charge you £7.52 ($11.98).

Enom is not VAT registered as it is not a EU registered company and so can not claim the 87p back. Enom does not charge you any VAT as again, its not VAT registered and so I cant see how openSRS would be able to provide VAT invoices unless they had a EU subsidery that is VAT registered.

I cant see how this would be done. For example you register a name with enom, nominet invoice enom £5+VAT (£5.87), enom charge you £7.52 ($11.98).

Yes but you are missing the point that Enom do not "buy" domains from Nominet - they act as their agent the fee charged to Enom is a transaction fee. When the customer buys a domain through Enom they are entering into a contract with Nominet and that contract is Vatable - just how this plays out is a different story and one I am interested in.
Enom is not VAT registered as it is not a EU registered company and so can not claim the 87p back. Enom does not charge you any VAT as again, its not VAT registered and so I cant see how openSRS would be able to provide VAT invoices unless they had a EU subsidery that is VAT registered.

Thats not correct, they can claim the VAT back from HMC&E just how and what is charged to the end user is in dispute.
Opensrs certainly do offer to provide paperwork to reclaim the VAT if you are VAT registered.
Again you have to look to the special "agency" agreement there is on UK domains and is not just a simple case of buying and selling.
I remember looking at rackshack's servers and noting they charge texas tax even to customers outside of the USA - not quite the same but in a similar vein.

I am off though to get a definitive answer on this.

Oh my god.. some of you talking about registerfly putting a couple of £ on as being EXPENSIVE!?!

£2 per registration is a fair markup. We are nominet owners and charge our clients £15 for 2 years.. thats like a £10 markup, nobody complains. You need to start thinking outside the WHT box!

We are actually going to move all our .uk business to enom just so everything is in the same place, we are dumping our own Nominet membership and paying a little more per registration just to keep everything simple and under enom!

Originally posted by Goldwing
Yes but you are missing the point that Enom do not "buy" domains from Nominet - they act as their agent the fee charged to Enom is a transaction fee. When the customer buys a domain through Enom they are entering into a contract with Nominet and that contract is Vatable - just how this plays out is a different story and one I am interested in.

I know that, and I totally agree with you. I was just working out the maths.


Originally posted by Goldwing
Thats not correct, they can claim the VAT back from HMC&E just how and what is charged to the end user is in dispute.
Opensrs certainly do offer to provide paperwork to reclaim the VAT if you are VAT registered.
Again you have to look to the special "agency" agreement there is on UK domains and is not just a simple case of buying and selling.

I cant see how that can work. In a normal business example, if you purchase a .uk name from netnames they charge you £50+VAT (£58.75) while Nominet invoice them £5+VAT (£5.87).

Netnames claim back the VAT nominet charged them as they are VAT registered and can do so. But then netnames must add VAT to your purchase. And then, if your a VAT registered company you can claim back the VAT netnames charged you.

So in the enom example, the VAT nominet charges enom is not your VAT to claim back. Or am I missing something here?

Originally posted by UH-Matt
Oh my god.. some of you talking about registerfly putting a couple of £ on as being EXPENSIVE!?!

£2 per registration is a fair markup. We are nominet owners and charge our clients £15 for 2 years.. thats like a £10 markup, nobody complains. You need to start thinking outside the WHT box!

Enom's price is a retail price, not a reseller/wholesale price.

UK registrars charge around the same or lower at retail! And then enom expect uk resellers to add their own margin on top.

£7.52 is not a good reseller price - full stop! Enom make under 95¢ on .com registrations, why dont they make just 95p ($1.51) on .uk names. That would adleast allow them to undercut the retail prices of the competition.

Originally posted by blob2
Enom's price is a retail price, not a reseller/wholesale price.

UK registrars charge around the same or lower at retail! And then enom expect uk resellers to add their own margin on top.

£7.52 is not a good reseller price - full stop! Enom make under 95¢ on .com registrations, why dont they make just 95p ($1.51) on .uk names. That would adleast allow them to undercut the retail prices of the competition.

I see your point. But for our business model the price is acceptable for the sake of having an easy to use central system.
$6.14/year is what our reseller account shows them as, im not going to argue with that.

So in the enom example, the VAT nominet charges enom is not your VAT to claim back. Or am I missing something here?

Confusion :)
I meant Enom can claim back their 88p per transaction.

What I am unsure about is whether because of the VAT ruling Enom have to include VAT in their pricing as the point of supply is the UK - remember they are not reselling the domain but acting as a go between in the transaction.


MATT
£2 per registration is a fair markup. We are nominet owners and charge our clients £15 for 2 years.. thats like a £10 markup, nobody complains. You need to start thinking outside the WHT box!

I know Matt, I laugh everytime I see someone pussyfooting around trying to get an extra 10 cents of the price of a domain.

Not sure I like the idea of transferring control of UK domains to Enom though I like to keep a tight grip on things - but then again thats just me.

Originally posted by Goldwing
Confusion :)
I meant Enom can claim back their 88p per transaction.

What I am unsure about is whether because of the VAT ruling Enom have to include VAT in their pricing as the point of supply is the UK - remember they are not reselling the domain but acting as a go between in the transaction.

This is what I dont understand. Dont you have to be VAT registered to claim back VAT??? And to become VAT registered dont you need to be a registered EU company?

This is what I dont understand. Dont you have to be VAT registered to claim back VAT??? And to become VAT registered dont you need to be a registered EU company?

No if you are outside the EU anyone can claim the VAT back if they have been charged it through HMC&E ( whether the paperwork and effort involved is worth it is a different story)

There is no requirement to be a UK or EU company to be registered for VAT AFAIAA.
Still unsure as to how all this plays out but have asked the people in the know.

Originally posted by Goldwing

Not sure I like the idea of transferring control of UK domains to Enom though I like to keep a tight grip on things - but then again thats just me.

Enom are pretty trustworthy. We have several hundred domains with them. This is why its going to be nice for us to get all our stock over to the one central place, rather than having to use the Nominet Email automation (yuck!)

Enom are pretty trustworthy. We have several hundred domains with them. This is why its going to be nice for us to get all our stock over to the one central place, rather than having to use the Nominet Email automation (yuck!)

I understand the reasons just that it adds another link in the chain, at least at the moment when I have a problem I can contact Nominet direct and sort it out not have to go through another IPSTAG holder.

I tend not to use enom for .com etc domains unless I have to due to the constant screwups when transferring in domains on every occassion I have had to go in and modify the contact info as it is always wrong and with around 2000 UK domains I dont want to have to constantly monitor that.

Interesting to note even though I have 2 Enom ( 1 ETP and one Reseller) accounts I have never even been informed that they are now doing UK :)

I think your wrong on this matter as normally companies and individuals outside the EU would not get charged VAT.

However Nominet claim that HM Customs and Excise have ruled that .uk names are service in the UK and so VAT must apply.

Value added Tax (VAT) at the current rate is added to all Nominet invoices for domain name registration and membership. This applies to both EU countries and non-EU countries.

This is a ruling by HM Customs and Excise because the service is supplied in the UK and not the country of the ISP or registrant.

You may be able to reclaim VAT in your own country. Please see the web site at http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/732.htm for details.

I think your wrong on this matter as normally companies and individuals outside the EU would not get charged VAT.

We seem to be at cross purposes, you are correct in that normally VAT would not be charged by say me on goods supplied to USA customers, however where a ruling like this one is in place and I am forced to charge VAT anyone outside the EU can reclaim or try to reclaim the amount paid.

It is a very complex subject and do not profess to be an expert by any manner of means.

However read this
http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/info0103.htm#9.1%20%20Who%20accounts%20for%20VAT?

Oh dear.

I promised I wouldnt get dragged back into wht but.......

1. The transactions with Nominet are so complex it does not appear possible to reclaim the VAT if you are a non EU entity.
OpenSRS are unable to reclaim the VAT for their .uk spend.

2. Price is not the major factor some people suggest.
When we raised our price of .uk domains from £9.95 to £14
sales of .uk names went down 20% and sales of com/net/org etc went up by 10%.
Overall we were in a more profitable position as a result.

The fact is none of us can hope to compete with Godaddy, so why bother trying?
Find your own niche and work away at it.

OpenSRS have been doing .uk for $13 for the past 2 years.

Demand for .uk name sis not very high outside of the UK.
We sell less than 1% of our .uk names outside of the UK
so if you dont have a market here its not a big deal.

Gordon