My admin thinks my site is getting too big for a shared hosting account. I was just wondering what you people think...

A good day of traffic for us is 20,000 page views/ 2000 unique hits. Last month we used 14gb of bandwidth (the month before was 22gb, but now we use mod_gzip).

I would say on average we do about 1400-1500 unique hits and about 15000 page views a day.

Originally posted by Randy
My admin thinks my site is getting too big for a shared hosting account. I was just wondering what you people think...

A good day of traffic for us is 20,000 page views/ 2000 unique hits. Last month we used 14gb of bandwidth (the month before was 22gb, but now we use mod_gzip).

I would say on average we do about 1400-1500 unique hits and about 15000 page views a day.
I think you are fine for shared hosting. When your mod_gzip bandwidth exceeds 25 gigs, I think it's time to look for a dedicated server or a very lightly loaded shared server. Also, if you need a lot of diskspace (over 2 gigs or so) you may also want to look into a dedicated server. Often times a dedicated server with 10 gigs of space and 50 gigs or data transfer is cheaper than a shared account of 2+ gigs and 25+ mod_gzip'd bandwidth. Do some research, I'm sure you can find good solutions out there.

I Dont Think That 14-20 GB Bandwidth Per Month Is Too Big For A Shared Account.

If You Go Over 45 GB Transfer Then That Is Defenetly Going To Need A Dedicated. But I cant say that about 14-20 GB. If Your Provider Says So Change Your Provider Before They Shut Your Account.



:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Originally posted by allera

I think you are fine for shared hosting. When your mod_gzip bandwidth exceeds 25 gigs, I think it's time to look for a dedicated server or a very lightly loaded shared server. Also, if you need a lot of diskspace (over 2 gigs or so) you may also want to look into a dedicated server. Often times a dedicated server with 10 gigs of space and 50 gigs or data transfer is cheaper than a shared account of 2+ gigs and 25+ mod_gzip'd bandwidth. Do some research, I'm sure you can find good solutions out there.

Again Thats Right. I Agree With allera.

Well the reason it came up is because I have about 1600 user accounts on my site and the table on mysql which holds all their information keeps "breaking" and from that the admin thought we needed a dedicated server.

Oh and I only use about 50mb of disk space.

Originally posted by Randy
Well the reason it came up is because I have about 1600 user accounts on my site and the table on mysql which holds all their information keeps "breaking" and from that the admin thought we needed a dedicated server.

Oh and I only use about 50mb of disk space.
You don't need a dedicated server -- you need a better shared server. :) How much load does his MySQL server have? If it's low, moving you to a dedicated server, unless it's configured better, might not be any better. If it's high, maybe you should either have him put you on another server with low MySQL usage, or switch hosts to one that can handle your MySQL requirements.

Originally posted by Randy
Well the reason it came up is because I have about 1600 user accounts on my site and the table on mysql which holds all their information keeps "breaking" and from that the admin thought we needed a dedicated server.

Oh and I only use about 50mb of disk space.


Mysql doesn't break on 1600 records or accounts or whatever...maybe at 160000 you need to start "tweaking" it or something...but it shouldn't break.

Get a better admin perhaps or just offload mysql from the webserver. Ask your host if they can do that for you.

-davidu

From what I've seen, when a host tells you that your are getting too big for your shared plan, they usually try to sell you a dedicated server in the next sentence.

I don't think that you are too big for shared hosting right now. There's an obvious problem with the mySQL setup, since 1600 records shouldn't cause a problem.

Just for the record, what are the specs on your hosting plan? How much bandwidth are you allowed?

Patrick

What is mod_gzip?

Originally posted by patrickw

Just for the record, what are the specs on your hosting plan? How much bandwidth are you allowed?

Patrick

It's HostRocket.com's executive plan.

Originally posted by Angel78
What is mod_gzip?
An apache module that compresses static and dynamic web pages and images on the server before sending them to the user. It usually saves anywhere from 30-90% of the normal bandwidth. We use it as much as possible to cut down on our customer's bandwidth needs. They seem to like it. :)

tnx could you give me link with some more stuff on that mod_gzip (does it make pictures look like saved as jpges on 20-30%...?) Sorry for bodering

Originally posted by Angel78
tnx could you give me link with some more stuff on that mod_gzip (does it make pictures look like saved as jpges on 20-30%...?) Sorry for bodering mod_gzip is for text compression mainly so graphics won't be compressed but it's great my main vB forum page is 123kb and compresses to 12.5kb! :eek:

here i wrote up a install guide for dedicated owners - http://www.i4net.tv/marticle/get.php?action=getarticle&articleid=12

Originally posted by Angel78
tnx could you give me link with some more stuff on that mod_gzip (does it make pictures look like saved as jpges on 20-30%...?) Sorry for bodering
http://www.remotecommunications.com/apache/mod_gzip/

It won't compress jpg files (since they are already compressed), but it will compress gif files. The big plus is on html and text files. Those can really be compressed a lot. The only catch on the compression is that the receiving browser must be gzip compatible. Browsers from 1999+ are mostly gzip compatible, so as long as the users run semi-up-to-date browsers, they'll take advantage of the mod_gzip.

All in all, it's a very good tool. I have a customer that was slurping up nearly 30 gigs a month. We installed mod_gzip and their bandwidth dropped to 10-12 gigs. Anything that actually passes through mod_gzip is saving them 88% of their bandwidth. That's quite a bit. :)

Your monthly transfer or number of unique or page view mean nothing. It all depends how you utilize
your server resources. I can run a script that brings down a PIII 900 in minutes with less than 1000 hits per day. Imagine if your script is using a lot of memory or
takes 20 sec to complete. Now hit the script with 10 or 20 users and you got yourself a over loaded server. I had a site that used less than 3 GB per month and a
dedicated Raq3 with 128 ram couldn't handle it.

Originally posted by kickster
Your monthly transfer or number of unique or page view mean nothing. It all depends how you utilize
your server resources. I can run a script that brings down a PIII 900 in minutes with less than 1000 hits per day. Imagine if your script is using a lot of memory or
takes 20 sec to complete. Now hit the script with 10 or 20 users and you got yourself a over loaded server. I had a site that used less than 3 GB per month and a
dedicated Raq3 with 128 ram couldn't handle it.
It could be the script. It really depends on what he's running that is cauing mysql to take a poo. Then again, it may be the server not being able to take the strain, or mysql just not configured correctly. It's a multiple possibilities and it's up to the host to figure out what's going on rather than just "move the customer to a dedicated server." Perhaps it's not the customer's problem but the server's problem. The host needs to find that out and THEN consult with the customer. So far Randy hasn't told us that the host knows what's going on, only that "MySQL breaks."

If Randy is running scripts like the one you mentioned, then we're playing a whole new game here. First he talks about bandwidth alone. Then MySQL breaks. Anything else? :)

There are a lot of variables that play into getting a dedicated server. Those two alone don't cut it. A script that hogs resources definately cuts it.

Originally posted by allera
So far Randy hasn't told us that the host knows what's going on, only that "MySQL breaks."

If Randy is running scripts like the one you mentioned, then we're playing a whole new game here. First he talks about bandwidth alone. Then MySQL breaks. Anything else? :)

There are a lot of variables that play into getting a dedicated server. Those two alone don't cut it. A script that hogs resources definately cuts it.

I'm really not running anything too complicated that would 'break' a mysql table. It's just a user system that holds a little bit of info (email, site colors, fonts, etc..).

I didn't mention the mysql at first because I didn't think my host would suggest for me to upgrade because of a mysql table breaking. Out of the 1500 unique hits, only a small percentage of that number are everyday users, so I wouldn't think I'm putting a heavy load on the server, there isn't much going on.

Who knows, maybe it is my scripts, but I don't think so. The admin didn't really suggest a reason as to why it could be breaking, basically just blaming us.

Originally posted by Randy
Who knows, maybe it is my scripts, but I don't think so. The admin didn't really suggest a reason as to why it could be breaking, basically just blaming us.
You may want to try another host (that offers 30-day money back guarantee) and see if you break their mysql too. If you do, you might either want to keep looking until you find one that doesn't break, or modify/optimize the script if you can.

I really don't think a dedicated server is the solution at this point. I think a little more research needs to go into your problem before you ultimately decide on a dedicated server.

Just my opinion. :)

Originally posted by Randy


Who knows, maybe it is my scripts, but I don't think so. The admin didn't really suggest a reason as to why it could be breaking, basically just blaming us.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Ask them what the hell is going on -- ask them to show you mysql logs, proc logs, www-logs. If they have an issue and you have only 1600 mysql records/entries whatever, you should NOT be causing the problem. Then again, if you have a php file and you are making like 20 SELECT's on a page because you don't know SQL then you could _improve_ your code.

For them to just blame you with out reason is stupid. They need to give you a reason and if they can't tell you how to fix it, ask us and we'll help.

btw, who is the host?

-davidu

What's the URL of your site, Maybe we can have a look

Randy,

I dont think John was blaming you for the problem as much as trying to offer a solution... I think he based it mostly on how you've said in the past that you outgrew a few other hosts before moving to us. He said...

We have about accounts in excess of 4-5 thousand and we have to make about 1 repair every week or two. I've never come across one thats happened as often as yours. Part of the problem may be because of the size, you stated that you've grown beyond those other hosts which may also be causing database problems. When having to share a server with other people your site may not be allocated all of the resources it needs, you may be at the point where you should start looking beyond virtual hosting.

We aren't just trying to sell a ded. server on this either as were not taking any more orders for them for at least a couple of weeks.

-Brendan
brendan@hostrocket.com

I'm using ad serving program which serves about 140000 banners daily which means 140000 insertions daily to mySQL and 280000 request to the mySQL. All it runs on shared hosting and no problems with mySQL.

From time to tyme mySQL tables or indexes could be brouken because mySQL use to cashe multiple insert requests as it locks the table.
But it can be automatically fixed with mySQL REPAIR
command - see the manual for it.

If you think the problem with mySQL you'd better make your script to write a log of mySQL connctions or ask it from your hosting provider.

Then you'll be see what breaks whether it is table corruptions which can be easily fixed with 2 lines in your script or many concurent users who overuse mySQL.

Also somebody may use persistent connections from PHP at the server as a result PHP can hold some connections even when they are not used.
If so ask administrator to configure PHP not to use persistent connections.

Anyway mySQL log should to find a real prolem.

I'm using ad serving program which serves about 140000 banners daily which means 140000 insertions daily to mySQL and 280000 request to the mySQL. All it runs on shared hosting and no problems with mySQL.

Wow! Who's hosting plan are you using!

cwihosting.com - but I know it won't last forever because if they put one more client like we could make mysql down. But now thre are 18 more users who use mysql (not so intensive) at the same machine and we don't interfere with each other whne believe to logs.

Really my script don't load to hard as it works in total about 40 minutes a day with database and traffic is about 3-4 Mb daily as banners are small in size.

But I'm looking around to get dedicated.

I can run a script that brings down a PIII 900 in minutes with less than 1000 hits per day. Imagine if your script is using a lot of memory or
takes 20 sec to complete.

Which factors do you have to pay attention to when making a Perl script so that it won't use too much memory? What kind of scripts uses too much system resources? Is the size (in Kb) of a script an important factor?

Originally posted by DeNasio


Which factors do you have to pay attention to when making a Perl script so that it won't use too much memory? What kind of scripts uses too much system resources? Is the size (in Kb) of a script an important factor?

Lots of factors. The best way to find out is to post your code and we can try to give you some pointers on where to improve the code.

-davidu

I use mod_perl to make scripts fater and use less memmory. Jenerally all I/O opearions are rather slow.
So it's better to use mySQL or other SQL server instead.
Also there is a good option to use mySQL heap tables to save script states (if you need it). With this technique I decreased ad script script runtime by 60% and pulled out some routine operations.

Also Regexps can overfull a stack as they use recursion.

The best way to find out is to post your code and we can try to give you some pointers on where to improve the code.

I will never do this. I consider my codes to be a piece of knowledge. I wont just post it on this board!

i dont know why people need such complex things...

did i read someone was usinf vbulletin?

why wont ubb do the job?

people are just too complicated sometimes...


Edit: Code sluts (people who share code [i made up name]) are very very cool. They help expand the useage of the code.

If some people at a website hadnt shared their php code with me, i would hav never been able to use it in the manor that i did and probably would be back manually editing websites.

*tear in eye

Those were the days.

Originally posted by DeNasio


I will never do this. I consider my codes to be a piece of knowledge. I wont just post it on this board!

Not to start a flame war...but that language you're coding in -- perl -- yeah, it's open source. You woudln't be using it if you had to pay $1000 to get a license...I don't see you coding w/ ASP or Microsoft Visual C++.

You run on Linux? Oh yeah, that's open source too. I didn't say "let go of a license" or "GPL it" -- but I am willing to offer my time to fix your code and you cry about it being knowledge. Well you're right -- but how can you get smarter without peer-review.

It'll be funny when some d00d surfs across your site, notices some weird GET values or something and then procedes to root all your machines. The funniest part will be when we laugh cuz there are lots of people here who would have spotted it.

Keep up your knowledge.

-davidu

DeNasio

Do you know about CPAN.org?
Each script there is a piece of knowledge and helped many people either tobuild sites or study using them.

I coded many scripts, but anly couple of them could be called a piece of knowledge.

Most scripts that webmasters write are simple and very specific that others could use it.

Don't afraid and you don't need to refuce good will help.

Randy,

It just depends on who your sharing the hosting with. 100 clients doing 20 GB on a P 600 with 128 MB of ram is impossible but 15-20 is easy to maintain. Find out what kind of server specs there are and check the server load. (telnet to the server and type "w") if it is above 2.00 I would reccomend finding a different host or getting a dedicated server. But I think doing only 20 GB a month is crazy to get your own server. I would not reccomend a dedicated server to anyone doing under 100-150 GB / month.


Thats just me =)