Hey everyone...

I've mentioned in the past I was looking at ways of avoiding needing to convert US dollars to Canadian dollars in order to withdraw from PayPal. For the most part, I have been successful.

I evaluated a lot of banks, and did a fair bit of research. The trouble is, most people who work in banks have no idea what you are talking about when you ask them for an ABA routing number, or ask for ACH information. The mere mention of a something number tends to get "oh, you want to do a wire transfer?". *bashes head against wall*

Some tricks for getting information:

ACH is also known as EFT or AFT. To simpler minded folk it is known as 'direct deposit it... you know, how payroll is often done?'. It is also known as pre-authorized payments. I've gotten to be good at figuring out how to make them understand what I'm asking; they usually just don't know :(.

Also to note is that sometimes the account number is different for ACH than what is printed on your cheques. I even came across a software package the sole purpose of which was to correct account numbers and tell you when they are likely invalid. It scared me that the pricing was of the 'contact us' variety, and I only would have used it once anyway.

Along the way I've also discovered that PayPal's refusal to deposit in US dollars to Canadian banks is not for reasons related to how the banking system works. It is pefectly possible to do EFT in US dollars in Canada. They just don't want to... it would seem to me that they are in the currency conversion business these days as well. Examples of this: In the past, when you did a US$ purchase on a CAD$ credit card, they would simply bill your credit card in US dollars and let your CC company convert it. They now insist on converting it to CAD themselves, and not necessarily at a preferential rate. Even worse is that if you get a refund from someone they will do it at a worse rate than their current one for sending money.

It is even possible to encode any old Canadian account to work on the US ACH system by mangling your transit numbers and routing numbers and account numbers properly and prefixing with 52 or 62, depending on currency, and calculating a check digit. But PayPal rejects such a transaction.

One option I considered was simply opening an account at a US bank. There were a number of reasons I didn't like this; for one I didn't particularily feel like driving to the border. There were also tax concerns and a number of other logistical and personal reasons I didn't want to do this.

I'd heard bits and pieces of Canadian banks offering accounts that work like US ones, but as I've stated, getting solid information from employees was very hard.

I've been a VanCity (local credit union) client for ages, and have been very satisfied with the service I've been getting from them. In my entire life I doubt I've paid $5.00 in service fees. Unfortunately their US dollar offerings are weak. It could be that if I inquired in the right place I would find out that they do in fact offer what I want. That could also be why they can encode and print cheques in branch for Canadian accounts but not for US accounts; possibly if I ordered US cheques I would find out the secret.

TD seems to offer a US account package to their clients for $4 or $7 per month, depending on number of transactions and a few other things. This was a little appaling, and besides, you needed to already be a client of theirs to get it.

CIBC seems quite lacking in US dollar offerings. According to their website, a US dollar account with them only can be drawn from at the account at which it is opened. In the world of electronic ledges, that is an extremely foreign concept to me. I haven't visited my 'home' branch in ages, having moved since the time the account was opened.

HSBC seems to offer something that could be what I was looking for, but it may also be only for business customers. Besides, the fees weren't very good their either.

Scotia Bank seems really friendly. I would have gone with them quite happily, had they offered what I wanted. They were actually able to tell me with some certainty that they didn't do what I was looking for, and they had a reasonable fee of $1 per month. To boot, with a US dollar account with them, you could have bank drafts done up free! I suspect they will be who I take my merchant card processing to when I get my volume up a bit; they seem good and don't play the gateway fee game.

BMO was downright rude to me on the phone. They seemed to think I was a terrorist for even requesting the information I was requesting. As if that shouldn't put me off dealing with them (and the other person I know who closed all their accounts with them as a result of being treated rudely), they had a PDF on their site explaining how they were changing their fee structure to better suit their clients needs and reduce their client's banking costs. I would believe that if it weren't for there being nothing but increases and reduced free features in the flyer. I am not an idiot, so please don't lie to me. They may offer what a US dollar account, however, they charge more than Royal, and I'm not particularily interested in supporting a business which is rude to me when I'm not even their client yet.

Which brings me to Royal Bank / RBC. They were friendly on the phone, offering to book me appointments and the like. They have good pricing on their US dollar accounts. You can go with a no monthly fee account (per transaction), get one free transaction per month, free deposits, AND... one free transaction for each direct deposit. Direct deposit was the only reason I wanted the account in the first place. Almost like a dream come true. I went into the branch, had an account opened, and had what I considered to be a truckload of cheques sent to me free of charge. I was given a 'routing' number which turned out to be their SWIFT number. Gar. I found the correct routing number, and it is also what appears on the cheques (which are encoded exactly like a US cheque, and are drawn on a us correspondent bank). The number is: 026004093. How do you get PayPal to send you money in US funds? Go to your preferences, then bank account. Click to add a US bank account. Put "Royal Bank of Canada" as the bank name. Put 026004093 as the routing number. Now, for your account number, take your branch's transit number (this is 5 digits, and should begin with a zero. I belive it to also be the first 5 digits on the account part of your US cheques, except if it begins with a 9 replace the 9 with a zero. If you have them issue you temporary temporary void cheques in branch it will be the first 5 digits on the MICR line, ignoring the cheque number. The transit number can also be found on the first page of your 'welcome' documents, though IIRC needs to be padded with 0s at the front to make 5 digits). The next part of your account number is your actual account number, which can be found right above the 'pay to the order of' on your cheques. Remove any dashes, and remember, if your account number is ending up at more than 12 digits in length, something is wrong, and it won't work. The good news is that with PayPal you can screw up your US account information all you want and they don't charge you a fee.

----
Message > 10,000 characters :(. Splitting.

So after I added the RBC account to my PayPal account, I decided it would be best to wait for the two confirmation deposits to appear in my account to make sure that it was the right number, or wait for PayPal to send me an email saying the account # was invalid. After a few days I hadn't received a rejection, and I had some US dollars to deposit (in $1 and $5 bills from a random eBay buyer - a funny and longish story in itself), so I went into a branch. There was $0.xx in my account, but no transactions had ever been posted to it. Odd. Eventually they found how it got there, and I asked for the amounts of the two transactions, and entered $0.xx and $0.xx on the PayPal system when I got home. PayPal accepted them... success! Mostly. I asked PayPal to withdraw $100 US to my account, and a few days later the amount appeared in my account! Then I made a purchase, and didn't quite have enough in my PayPal balance to cover it. So I decided to do an Instant Transfer, and avoid paying currency conversion fees (and besides, I had 3 free withdrawals accrued that month at Royal). That is where things went wrong. The account number was returned as being invalid - odd because its using the exact same numbers. I conjecture that either I need to be using different numbers that I don't have yet, or that I can only do deposits via ACH. I want to follow up on this part because it would be nice to be able to have money go both ways; I have a few ideas of the right departments to talk to for me to get the information (I'm thinking whoever does payroll and merchant services might be a good bet, or whoever deals with their US subsidiaries and correspondent relationships. They do have a service where they set you up with an account that is entirely US based.).

All in all I'm pretty happy with the fruits of my research. The only problem I have now is that PayPal won't let me re-add the account, since the instant transfer from it failed and got billed to my CC instead. They had a form to fax asking for the bank statement that shows the deposits made by them and a copy of my driver's license or other ID. I'm hoping my account doesn't get locked up and they don't also ask for my first born based on what I've seen whenever you need to fax them something. I sent the fax in today and amazingly I also got confirmation a few minutes ago that they received the fax. Apparently their fax machine _doesn't_ feed directly to a shredder.

So, if you want to avoid constantly converting back and forth between USD and CAD, go open a USD account at Royal. You don't even need a CAD account with them, and you don't have to be an existing client. You needn't pay any fees, especially if you have PayPal send you a direct deposit every once in a while. Don't try to do any withdrawals from your account to PayPal though, at least not until I get more information on the subject.

Lots of typing, and I haven't done a sanity check on what I've written. Hopefully its all readable and is of use to some of you!

Kind regards,

Daniel Dent

Didn't got the guts to read it all :(

Hahaha. Well, you can probably start at the last paragraph of the first post for the important bit :).

i have an easier solution.

open an account with CHASE.
transfer funds from paypal to your chase bank account.
wire transfer your funds from your CHASE to your canadian bank account as and when you wish to (all through its internet banking services. No need to cross borders).

if you do not want to pay for the wire transfer, open an RBC bank account (like what the thread started proposed). ACH the funds from CHASE to RBC. In that case, Paypal won't find fault with you as you are literally transfering funds to a US bank account, and not a US dollar account in a Canadian bank.


go figure that.

TD Canada Trust charges $10 US/month for a US-dollar business bank account.

It has a partnership with TD Waterhouse, which is a US Bank. So any TD Canada Trust member can open a US bank account with TD Waterhouse. The US bank account is in the US, but because there's a partnership (it's the same company, just a US version) you can easily exchange money between the accounts.

I have so far been unable to determine what TD Waterhouse's fees are for normal banking or normal business banking. (Confusing site.)

The other downside is that you would have to claim US income tax on any interest in the account.

However, since it's actually a US bank account, paypal probably wouldn't have any problems either depositing or withdrawing.

HOWEVER - and I say this as a longtime Canada Trust customer - since TD acquired Canada Trust, there's been a definite decrease in the level of service. Royal Bank is definitely more friendly towards small business.

Dstar, RBC actually offers the same thing. They call it 'embassy banking'. TD has http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/usbanking/checking.jsp .

But, I want to keep my money in Canada to avoid the whole US tax thing. Dealing with Canadian taxes is pain enough.

Its funny you mention service levels.... I've been quite shocked at the speed of service I've had with RBC. VanCity has trained me so that I'm not used to needing to wait a fair bit every time I go into a bank...

but paypal will find fault with you if you transfer to a US dollar account based outside USA right?

Read carefully: I had no problems withdrawing to my US dollar account at RBC with my account input as if it were a US bank account. Just don't try to add funds to your paypal account from it.

Update: I just spoke with a very friendly person in the PayPal ACH department. They re-enabled that account on the system and I can now do withdrawals again :).

After all the bad things I've heard about PayPal from others, I am pleasantly surprised.

Glad to hear it's working out.

Interesting... so the Royal account is still a Canadian account... that's a good thing. :)

I'll probably switch to Royal at some point, or to a credit union - need my birth certificate to arrive first...! TD was at least kind enough to open an account for me while I'm waiting for it because I already had a personal account with them. So I can at least get my business going, even if I can't get a credit card yet.

does this apply to us dollar accounts held in other countries, eg. UK?

Hmm, could, not sure. Easiest way to tell is probably to ask for checks for it. I don't know how checks are formatted (on the MICR line on the bottom, or even if MICR is used) in the UK, but in Canada the US' and Canada's checks are a bit different in terms of formatting.

If it has a 9 digit ABA number surrounded by some seperators, it may be that the account will work. Especially if it that # is 026004093. Let me know and I can try to help :).

ok... but i currently do not have a us dollar account...

anyone has a us dollar account in countries other than Canada and USA?

thank you thank you thank you ddent!!

First thing next week, I will take a trip to Royal Bank and Open a USD account.

I'm currently with TD, and boy do I hate em :p

ok. let me get this clear. with a us dollar bank account with royal, you can withdraw money from paypal into that account but you can't transfer funds from that account to your paypal account?
i.e. 1 way traffic.

is this right?

At this point, yes. It could be that RBC can give me some new numbers that will make it both ways, or flip a switch on my account. But at this point a withdrawal from paypal to RBC will work fine, and the other way arround will have your account returned as being an invalid number and you PayPal will disable the account from their system and you'll have to convince them to re-add it.

ddent: Well all I need is withdrawal capabilities so thank you very much for this info!

BTW, can you tell me the plan name for this USD account, it'll make things easier.

thanks!

http://www.royalbank.com/products/deposits/us_account.html

Its just their standard US dollar checking account. I don't have any kind of a monthly fee plan, just per transaction. But they treat paypal deposits as direct payroll deposits, so you get a free withdrawal for each. Plus there is one free per month. So just have paypal send you as many $20 deposits as you write checks, and you should never need to pay a fee :).

edit: I too am pretty happy with just withdrawals. Being able to go the other way would have just been even cooler. I'm only making it abundantly clear so no one else tries :).

oh man... just checked with my bank.

yes. they will give me a routing number (that of JP Morgan CHASE)

BUT.... they will charge me USD3 for every inward remittance!!!

GOSH!!!! that sucks...

oh yeah... and that does not include any possible agent fees....

grrr....

lobaloba9,

Are you sure thats not for an incoming wire transfer?

Mention 'routing number' in a bank and you will immediately get 'oh, you want to do/receive a wire transfer?'.

Double check :). Make sure you are very explicit that you are *not* talking about a wire transfer. Especially when they mention 'agent fees'...

ok. i'll double check with my bank again.

From the paypal "add a bank account" page...

US Check numbers:

Routing number :: Check Number :: Account Number
xxxxxxxxx :: xxxx :: xxxxxxxxxx

Canadian Check Numbers:
Check Number :: Bank Transit-Institution number :: Account Number
xxx :: xxxxx-xxx :: xxxx-xxx

My Canadian US-dollar account definitely still has the Canadian format.

So, I called Canada Trust, and after talking with a support rep for a few minutes, she didn't recognize EFT or ACH, but did recognize "ABA number" - so thanks ddent!
However, the ABA number is what's used for wire transfer. It IS 9 digits... which is what paypal seems to expect on a US account.

I'm still not entirely sure if it's the right number...

Did any other Canadian TD customer manage to get paypal depositing into their USD account?

If you are at TD, http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/usbanking/comp.jsp is what you will want I think. It would imagine that they may have other USD accounts that don't do what you are looking for.

The easiest way will probably to read the numbers off the checks (not cheques, they are US checks :) ) provided with that account (but note that in my case the account number on the bottom of my RBC checks doesn't work, since it is for physical check clearing and not for direct deposit).

The account number you want to put in the account number field is the "DDA" number, but even fewer employees are likely to know what that is :(.

One word of warning about asking for the ABA number (which you seem to have understood): There can be different ABA numbers for wire transfers than are used for check clearing/ACH.

I'm _almost_ tempted to get pricing on a program I found that fixes account numbers so they can be used for ACH. But not on my own dime, seeing as how I already have my setup working (quite nicely at that... I'm loving it). Maybe if there is lots of interest we can arrange some kind of a deal or pool money and have one license and one person fixing account numbers for others.

ddent
Did you menaged to add money from your Royal Us account to paypal?

No, but I haven't really tried much since it failed. At this point I'm happy enough with withdrawals, and have plenty of other things to get done instead...

Ok than you I will see how is working. just got account from royal

wow... i know this thread is a bit old and hopefully someone in here will be able to respond...

but I havea Royal bank US account, and the account number is only 7 digits long.

It seems like PayPal wants a 10 digit one... will the 7 digit one work?




btw... Why can't I PM?

Your account # is your Royal 7 digit # prefixed by your 5 digit transit number (that is determined by what branch your account was opened at).

so it's goign to end up being 12 digits long? ---> branch# followed by the 7 digits?

Does it still work... Can you withdraw money without any financial penalties? And when did the ability to deposit money from your RY Bank to payPal end for you? What was the penalty they gave you?

thank you so much for looking at all my (perhaps naive) questions.

-Yes, I am still able to withdraw from my PayPal to my royal
-At one point, my royal account was removed from the list in my PayPal account when I tried to withdraw from Royal to PayPal, as that does not work. The penalty was having it removed, and I had to ask to have it put back.

I've managed to find the branch my accountw as opened at:
clients.mapquest.com/royalbank2/mqlocator (can't post URLs till I have 5 post... srry)

SPARKS AND METCALFE
90 SPARKS ST
OTTAWA, ON K1P 5T6

it's transit number is just '6'. I can't even find any transit number from any branch that is 5 digits long. What should I do?

Good thread...definately going to save it..

Any transit number in Canada is 5 digits long... phone them up and ask what it is :).

i dunno... you're probably right in some way. perhaps I need to add 0's in front.

if you click here http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/rbcatlas/index.html?, put in 'Ontario' and 'K1C8E2'... will see "SPARKS AND METCALFE"--> Transit '6'

Way, too long.

ddent, so the US account you are using for paypal->RBC withrawl is the personal US account in RBC and not the business US account there?

Yes... our business accounts are elsewhere.

The service at RBC is awful, but they are the only ones who have this feature to the best of my knowledge (which is the sum of a lot of time spent researching). I basically use them as a way to get money in, and write cheques to people in the US (the cheques have US MICR encoding), but that is about it.

Originally posted by ddent
Yes... our business accounts are elsewhere.

The service at RBC is awful, but they are the only ones who have this feature to the best of my knowledge (which is the sum of a lot of time spent researching). I basically use them as a way to get money in, and write cheques to people in the US (the cheques have US MICR encoding), but that is about it.

So we can use the personal US account at RBC for business use as well?
I've had pretty good service at my RBC branch.

For 2Checkout users, only 2 banks work with them for Direct Deposits. The Royal Bank and TD. All other banks will result in incomplete transfers and penalty fees.

Information like in this thread is very helpful to Canadian users of both PayPal and 2 Checkout. Thankyou for taking the time to do the research

Moved to e-commerce

I have a CIBC US dollar business account and paypal will not transfer to the account. I was told they wouldn't transfer US dollars to any account other than an account IN the USA. I will have to check with Royal and get setup with them. Sweet! This will save a lot of fees.

Thanks,
Mark

tell us how it works out skylap

So far I have worked out a deal with harris bank in the USA to get a US business account on US soil! :D Amazing! And almost 85% cheaper than it would be at Royal Bank or any other bank. I have been in constant communication and am just waiting for confirmation sometime this week.

I'll let you know if it works or not. :)

I'm just curious, maybe my math is not very good but, what exactly is 85% cheaper than free?

cheaper bank fees....for a US currency business account in a canadian bank it's around $0.85US per transaction plus $8.00US monthly fee. A US currency business account in a US bank is only $5/mo! that's it! no other fees!

that's what i mean by 85% cheaper. business accounts aren't free...and it's illegal to use a personal account for business. the gov't catches up.

I'm just curious, which bank gives free business accounts? and US currency accounts at that. lol

ING direct (http://www.ingdirect.ca) does I think

VanCity Business USD accounts are $3.00 USD/month. And the service is great...

for unlimited transactions?

I know this thread was started in April 2003 so I don't know if things have changed since then or if you weren't paying proper attention [ddent]. We will assume things have changed though because you seem to have done some pretty thourough research.

I have actually been researching personal U.S. bank accounts myself (in Canada) and couldn't decide on who to go with until a friend of mine sent me this thread. Thanks for the research you have done ddent, I will likely open an account with Royal Bank, however, I don't have any other accounts with them and it would be more convenient to have a U.S. account with a bank I already have a Canadian account with (to make it easier to exchange funds).

Anyway, to the point, I e-mailed a number of the banks and CIBC and TD both have no fee U.S. dollar accounts. CIBC charges 5% commission on cheques written from the U.S. account.

I'm in the process of talking with TD Bank right now, if you visit this page: https://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/usaccount.jsp

They actually have two plans on the page although the first one is kind of disguised. It looks like there is just the one plan with a 4.95 a month fee, however when I e-mailed them regarding this, they mentioned there is two plans on this page, the 'Borderless Plan' and 'US Dollar Daily Interest Chequing Account' which I guess isn't really a plan but an account with no plan.

The account has no monthy fees (unless you add the Borderless Plan to it) and I'm currently waiting TD's response on whether the cheques you can get for this account have proper U.S. MICR encoding. Also they are supposed to let me know if it costs anything to get cheques.

Which brings me to a question about the Royal Bank account, ddent (hopefully you read this), have you written any cheques using your account yet? Does Royal charge a commission on them (like CIBC) and if so, how much is it?

1) Yes, I've written cheques on them. $0.50 cent fee per cheque. However, they give you one free debit per direct deposit you make to the account.

2) 200 checks cost me $12.37 USD to print (converted at the time from somewhere around $17-19 CAD). They are encoded with proper US MICR. I haven't had any problems with people in the US depositing them. People also don't tend to know what I mean by US MICR.

The big challenege isn't getting a USD account up here.. all the banks have them. I would have rather stayed with VanCity. The challenge is getting one that 1) PayPal will deposit to, and 2) Has US MICR. Although theoretically any Canadian US dollar account could be coded for US international direct deposit, paypal refuses the routing # for the ones you encode into the US system.

BTW, I haven't actually had any success in getting Royal to actually ever give me the # I use... it is only through the research I did that I've been able to do this.

Okay, I received a reply, I will post it here if anyone is interested in what TD offers:

Thank you for writing to us. Lisa is not in the office today, so I will assist you on her behalf.

Personal cheques are available on U.S. Dollar chequing accounts with us, however, they are encoded for clearance through the Canadian clearing system only. You may have difficulty clearing the cheques through the U.S.
clearing system. This is due to changes in U.S. Federal banking regulations. However, you do have alternatives.

The first alternative is to purchase U.S. Dollar drafts at the branch. If you have the Borderless service set up on your account (for $4.95 per month with unlimited transactions), U.S. Dollar drafts are free. If you do not have the Borderless service, U.S. Dollar drafts can be purchased for $6.50 (you'll also have to pay $1.00 for each individual transaction). This would be the most economical way to send funds to the United States. Information about the Borderless service can be found at:

http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/usaccount.jsp

Another alternative would be to send an electronic wire transfer. This option is costlier and you will be charged $30.00 to $50.00 per transfer.
However, an electronic transfer is very fast and should arrive in the beneficiary account within a few business days.

If your payments in the United States can be completed via credit card, then please feel free to view the information about the TD U.S. Dollar Advantage Visa and apply on-line through the following address:

http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/tdvisa/usd.jsp

You also have the option of opening a U.S. Dollar account at TD Waterhouse Bank, our U.S. subsidiary. TD Waterhouse Bank is an affiliated bank in the United States that offers chequing accounts. More detailed information can be found at:

http://www.tdwaterhouse.com/banking/welcome/index.html

Regular Traveller's Cheques are available for Borderless service account holders with no commission fee. The commission if you don't have the Borderless service is 1%. The commission fee for dual signature cheques is 1.75%.

Cheques for a U.S. Dollar account are free (basic style, personalized) if you have the Borderless service. If not, an order of cheques will cost about $15.00 to $20.00 depending on your provice of residence, with shipping and handling and taxes included.

We hope this information is helpful. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Originally posted by ddent
BTW, I haven't actually had any success in getting Royal to actually ever give me the # I use... it is only through the research I did that I've been able to do this.

Now, in response to this comment. Are you speaking of the routing number? Or are you speaking of that you found out how to rearrange the Canadian numbers to make it act like a U.S. deposit account?

The method you used to figure that out can be applied to pretty much any Canadian based account is what you're saying though right?

----------

Now, in response to TD's e-mail. For me to open an account with TD Waterhouse (which would probably be costly, and there would be the tax issues you mentioned) would make less sense that me opening one with Royal. The only reason I was hoping to open one with TD was to make it easier to exhange funds back and forth. But if I had an account with TD Waterhouse it would be a completely separate banking system so there would be just as much hassle to exchange funds.

Also, it doesn't seem that their cheques are fully compatible with the U.S. system (MICR encoded?) and so... I hope this information will be helpful to others, RBC still seems like the best personal U.S. account option for Canadians right now.

Originally posted by Psiphere
Now, in response to this comment. Are you speaking of the routing number? Or are you speaking of that you found out how to rearrange the Canadian numbers to make it act like a U.S. deposit account?


I was speaking of the routing number 026004093 and then your branch+account # for the account number.


The method you used to figure that out can be applied to pretty much any Canadian based account is what you're saying though right?

No, this is a different method. It involves taking the branch number, prefixing it with a 62, suffixing it with a 0, and then suffixing all that with a check digit that you have to calculate. The account number becomes the institution # plus the actual account number. But paypal seems to refuse such routing #s.

Now, in response to TD's e-mail. For me to open an account with TD Waterhouse (which would probably be costly, and there would be the tax issues you mentioned) would make less sense that me opening one with Royal. The only reason I was hoping to open one with TD was to make it easier to exhange funds back and forth. But if I had an account with TD Waterhouse it would be a completely separate banking system so there would be just as much hassle to exchange funds.

You may wish to check out xetrade.com/custom house currency exchange. We use them frequently - they EFT out of one account and into another.

Also, it doesn't seem that their cheques are fully compatible with the U.S. system (MICR encoded?) and so... I hope this information will be helpful to others, RBC still seems like the best personal U.S. account option for Canadians right now.


That's right although I believe other banks offer US MICR, I am not aware of other banks' US DD routing #s.

Hi,

I am currently trying to get this setup for our TD US Bank Account.

They tell me that for receiving funds from paypal it is possible because Royal Bank received paypal US deposits on there behalf.

So it is a question for TD users of getting the proper numbers for paypal. I have been given: 000438492 as the routing number, but it is incorrect according to paypal. I am contemplating using the RBC # of 026004093 and then for my account number the 4 digit TD branch code and the 7 digit account code so like XXXXYYYYYYY as an account number and seeing if it would work. Regardless, I will get that information for TD business users and post it here, or if anyone already has solved it, post it here. Seems so far only 2 banks, RBC and TD have the means for doing this for us.

As far as transferring funds from the bank accounts to paypal, it does not interest us, so we are not bothering to check it out.

Azile

Azile, DONT use the routing rumber for RBC. Just today I was able to SOMEHOW get a similar routing number for TD, it wasn't easy as no one knew what the heck I was talking about! :) Anyway, I've added it to my paypal account and am awaiting the results. Will let you and everyone here know how it works out. I think this may actually work. :D

Have a question, I'm not talking about the US account here, just generally speaking, if I add a bank account and then don't accept the debit authorization agreement, I won't be allowed to withdraw to that account, correct? Reason being I don't want to give them the authorization to debit from an account as I will not be using that 'feature', I only plan to withdraw to it.

Would any of this help me with the fact that I live in Canada, but want to have access to the features of a US Business Paypal account?

I got into a long conversation with one of the Paypal tech support guys when I was trying to figure out why people needed to sign up for a paypal account to buy something from me, he told me it was impossible if I lived in Canada because direct credit card payments from websites was a feature only available in US paypal accounts.

yarg,
?

That's what i'm looking for:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/mer/WAX_landing-outside

And you can only do this with a U.S. PayPal account eh? I never knew that.

I got a U.S. PayPal account for my business but it was a lot of effort... way more than the average person would want to go through.

I registered my company as a U.S. corporation in Nevada (I am a Canadian citizen/resident). I had to get a friend of mine in the U.S. act as my company's vice president and apply for an employer tax number for me so I can both employ people and apply for things that I need a Tax ID for.

I opened a U.S. bank account with Chase, got cheques from them and got a debit MasterCard through them.

I used all of this to open a U.S. PayPal account (and a U.S. authorize.net account).

But it took many weeks (months to do all this). And if you were that serious about running a U.S. based business, from all I have learned, it would make more sense to have registered the company as an LLC rather than a Corp. As a corp you have to do more legal stuff like have annual meetings and keep detailed company records, minutes and notes on things (as well as accounting). And you have to have board members. With an LLC you don't have to do all that stuff but if you register the LLC as a corp style tax system you still get the main benifits of a Corp and it's still a separate entity.

That is the only way I know of so far for a Canadian to get pretty much any U.S. account they want. It's actually your Corp or LLC getting the accounts but you control your company so you get all the control of these accounts.

I know this is a little out of the scope of this thread but I just wanted to say, if you can't find anyway to get a U.S. PayPal account, that is one possible way but it costs money. You have to file a corporation, you also have to pay someone to rent a physical address as the mailing address of your company (in the state you register) and all sorts of stuff.

Again, I would't recommend this method for someone not serious.

But I find it quite strange that only U.S. PayPal accounts can accept credit cards without requiring the other person to have an account.

Originally posted by Psiphere
But I find it quite strange that only U.S. PayPal accounts can accept credit cards without requiring the other person to have an account.

I was recently wondering if there was a way to do this too.. real strange. :eek:

The RBC routing # did not work for my TD US business account as expected.

TDs routing # is (as given to me by the bank): 000438492

I am wondering if ddent can help us recode it into a US routing number for TD accounts as he did for the RBC number.

The first 0 they told me just to add to make it 9 digits, the second 004 is the TD bank code and 38492 is their 5 digit bank routing number.

We know that US routing number must start 026.

I am willing to try some routing numbers ddent if you want to convert it for me to test. Costs nothing to try and this would sure help a lot of TD customers looking to do this.

Azile

Azile, no need to recode numbers, the routing number for TD is 026009593.

I have already tried 5 digit branch number + account number as the account number but didn't work so no need to try that. I have now tried another set of numbers and will let you know the results. If a set of numbers is successful for you, let us know as well.

Ash

It is either:

4 digit Branch # + 7 digit account number

or

3 digit Bank Code # + 7 digit account number

Code for TD is 004.

I am going to try them both to see if either works.

Thanks for the routing number.

Azile

That is a bad routing number that I have already tried with Branch+account.

That is the routing number for the bank of america that TD sometimes uses to arrange wires etc.

I do not believe it will work.

I was given that by TD under error and it failed.

Check this publication for more info about CDN routing number:

policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402300#E

Our routing number will be starting with 62 then a 5 digit Branch Code which is easy to get, then a 0 and then the last number is a US check digit which is going to be different for every case.

Still working on the check digit. Your account will be bank code 004 + your 7 digit account number.

Azile

I just tried my theory and with the information I had and tried all 10 differnt possible check digits as the last number and paypal accepted none of them.

Starting to think it is only possible via RBC that has actually set up a US routing bank.

Not sure if my 5 digit branch code is the proper one to use or not. There is mention in that document of getting a specific code.

Azile

Which if you read my posts is exactly what I explained... I can calculate check digits if you like, but from what I have seen PayPal must be using a database of valid routing #s and only accepting those. Since these routing numbers are generated dynamically they wouldn't be in that db.

The only thing I would look at trying is to see if you can get a correspondent bank routing # for TD, as RBC has set up. I believe BMO may have one as well.

Wow, what a great thread. It's been very helpful for me.

I followed your advice and went with Royal Bank of Canada, I do like their low transaction fees (compared to other banks) but am concerned over some of the account features.

One thing I don't like is how the account doesn't come with its own ATM/Client card. Without it, I have no way of viewing my account balance and details online or over the phone (I would have to visit a local branch instead).

They told me that to resolve this I could try opening a regular bank account with them, but this kind of seems pointless as I would then have to pay monthly fees even for not using the account.

So, I am considering going with another bank, perhaps CIBC (I think they've updated their US dollar account features), or ING Direct (I like their interest rates, not sure if they completely offer the services I need though).

I welcome anyone's advice on this matter.

ING's is not a chequing account so you wouldn't get cheques and you also very likely wouldn't be able to withdraw funds from PayPal to it.

What if you opened a Royal Bank account for a day, got an ATM card, and the closed the account. If you still had a U.S. account you may be able to access your balance online.

But yes, it's quite unfortunate about that the way it is. You could probably call them and ask them what your current balance is.

Yes, the lack the easy access to view my account transactions and balances at RBC is what is still pushing me to try and make it work with TD.

Anyway, I was trying another combination of numbers like I said earlier, and as expected it failed. This time it was designation number + account number. The big problem is that it is a Bank of america routing number, not TD's. If TD still uses them, which appears to be the case, there then has to be a way to indicate in your transfer that the deposit is for TD's account, and then follow that up with your local account info. I contacted Bank of America about this but all they could tell me was to contact TD. And at TD, no one has a clue on routing numbers and the like. On the other hand, RBC routing number is RBC's, there is no intermediary so it's relatively simple.

Maybe you should try calling up TD Watehouse and use the information form their bank but then just take whatever info they give you and change the transit and account numbers to your branch here. It's possible TD Waterhouse and TD Canada Trust use the same numbers required for EFT's.

Hi everyone,

I got this to work around the same time when Daniel figured it out almost 2.5 - 3 years ago now, I looked in my paypal account and my bank account was no longer available :(.

I didn’t know this post was here :) much to my delight. :)

Though if you are looking to do it now with the information DDENT gave on the first page, everything is correct except the routing number.

(paypal refused with that routing number for me)

Looks like RBC changed their routing numbers for bank wires, the new one is 021000021

This allowed me to add RBC bank as a US bank to my paypal account


just to reiterate routing number is 021000021

account number should be a 12 digit number and is composed of your 5 digit transit # followed by your bank account #

TRANSIT-ACCOUNT = 12 digit number and make sure the name is

"Royal Bank of Canada"


I'll post back in a couple days when I am able to successfully pull my funds out

Off to go check those two small deposit numbers

Hope this helps

and thanks Ddent for posting this info so long ago :)

I have good experience with storm pay. Now offer some new things like pppc,etc...

Hi, chmacd:

What is the result?


thanks

Hi everyone,

I got this to work around the same time when Daniel figured it out almost 2.5 - 3 years ago now, I looked in my paypal account and my bank account was no longer available :(.

I didn’t know this post was here :) much to my delight. :)

Though if you are looking to do it now with the information DDENT gave on the first page, everything is correct except the routing number.

(paypal refused with that routing number for me)

Looks like RBC changed their routing numbers for bank wires, the new one is 021000021

This allowed me to add RBC bank as a US bank to my paypal account


just to reiterate routing number is 021000021

account number should be a 12 digit number and is composed of your 5 digit transit # followed by your bank account #

TRANSIT-ACCOUNT = 12 digit number and make sure the name is

"Royal Bank of Canada"


I'll post back in a couple days when I am able to successfully pull my funds out

Off to go check those two small deposit numbers

Hope this helps

and thanks Ddent for posting this info so long ago :)

ok, tried the following:

routing numer: 021000021
account number: transit+account

Paypal allows me to type it in and after 3 days, paypal says the bank doesn't recognize my account number.. so the formula is not right....
anyone?

ok, tried the following:

routing numer: 021000021
account number: transit+account

Paypal allows me to type it in and after 3 days, paypal says the bank doesn't recognize my account number.. so the formula is not right....
anyone?
I tried the above combination aswell, and I got the same error as go77306. Have there been any further news on how to get this to work?

Thanks!

Use 026004093 as the routing code. This routing code directs the deposits to a New York branch of RBC that's why it works.

021000021 is not going to work.

Use 026004093 as the routing code. This routing code directs the deposits to a New York branch of RBC that's why it works.

021000021 is not going to work.

Are you currently using that with success? I have just added my account again using that number. Fingers crossed. =)

Hello guys,
Thank you for the information.
I think I will try my anti-conversion quest in other way...
I have account in USD at CIBC, anyone know what will happened when I'll enter 026009593(actually the routing number of the Bank of America) and my transit number+account number as account number? I know that is not similar to your RBC method, but I saw in one ad on net where ppl asked to send US originating transfers to this routing number and CIBC account.
Thank you and best regards.

bad luck, deposits were rejected :(

I tried the RBC US Personal account, linked it to PayPal and received their small deposits. I then tried taking out $1 USD, and it failed. So sad... I want a fee-less US$ account.

Hello guys,
Thank you for the information.
I think I will try my anti-conversion quest in other way...
I have account in USD at CIBC, anyone know what will happened when I'll enter 026009593(actually the routing number of the Bank of America) and my transit number+account number as account number? I know that is not similar to your RBC method, but I saw in one ad on net where ppl asked to send US originating transfers to this routing number and CIBC account.
Thank you and best regards.

You have to find out if CIBC actually has a branch located in the USA - As far as I know CIBC has to own the place in the USA, so unless Bank Of America is somehow affiliated with CIBC, it probably won't work.

As far as I have studied, RBC has a specific location set up in New york which belongs to RBC - it is not Chase bank, it is an actual location that RBC owns in New York (despite the rumors floating about it being a Chase bank).

Now the question is do Scotiabank, TD Canada Trust, Bank of Montreal, CIBC, or any other Canadian banks have an actual location set up in USA to handle these ACH's like RBC has done?

Banking is Rocket Science.

Also, why would RBC set up a location in New York for ACH when they could just talk to their friend RBC Centura in North Carolina? It was just a thought I had. Maybe New York RBC account was set up before RBC Centura existed.

I tried the RBC US Personal account, linked it to PayPal and received their small deposits. I then tried taking out $1 USD, and it failed. So sad... I want a fee-less US$ account.

Tried taking out 1 dollar from your Bank Account, or tried taking out 1 dollar from your Paypal account?

Oh sorry... Tried "adding" $1 to my PayPal.

Tried taking out 1 dollar from your Bank Account, or tried taking out 1 dollar from your Paypal account?

Oh sorry... Tried "adding" $1 to my PayPal.

From what I've researched, you can only go one way and not vice versa. As far as I know, you can withdraw money from your paypal account and place that money into your bank account with the RBC routing number.. but vice versa so far has not been possible. I've read that some people have had their Paypal accounts locked when they tried to take money from an RBC account and place it in their paypal account, but so far people have not had their accounts locked by putting money into their RBC bank account from Paypal.

I found some routing numbers if anyone wants to try these branches:

http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026002516.SCOTIA_BANK.htm
http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026003243.Toronto-Dominion_Bank.htm
http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026002532.THE_BANK_OF_NOVA_SCOTIA.htm
http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026002558.CANADIAN_IMPERIAL_BANK_OF_COMMERCE.htm

http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026004093.ROYAL_BANK_OF_CANADA.htm

As you can see the Royal Bank branch number is correct!

That magic number 026004093..

So possibly, the other magic numbers below will be a solution:

026002532 Bank of Nova Scotia
026002516 Scotia Bank (Try both?)
026003243 Toronto Dominion
026002558 CIBC

I hope someone can be our ginny pig - I'm going to try at least TD and Scotia bank but I don't have a CIBC account. Any volunteers?

I still don't know if the RBC routing number works on Canadian accounts or just US currency accounts. Still lots and lots of confusion on this topic after years of research.

Hello, I'll be your test mice with my CIBC USD account :) Will report result later.
You are right - Banking is a Rocket Science :)

Regarding CIBC routing number 026002558.
PayPal refused it:
The bank information you have added is invalid or missing. Please try again.

You have entered an invalid Routing Number for a bank account in United States. Please make sure the Routing Number is correct. If you fail to resolve the problem, please call Customer Support.

does any one find the solution to deposit the amount from paypal in US dollars to TD or royal bank account. I have opened the USD account at both banks but still unable to solve this matter.

Any help and guideline will be greatly appreciated.

RBC US bank account should work for this matter...
Just put 026004093 as RBC routing number and transit number+account number as account number when you will add it to PayPal...

I found some routing numbers if anyone wants to try these branches:

http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026002516.SCOTIA_BANK.htm
http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026003243.Toronto-Dominion_Bank.htm
http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026002532.THE_BANK_OF_NOVA_SCOTIA.htm
http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026002558.CANADIAN_IMPERIAL_BANK_OF_COMMERCE.htm

http://banks.tofind.org/bank.026004093.ROYAL_BANK_OF_CANADA.htm

As you can see the Royal Bank branch number is correct!

That magic number 026004093..

So possibly, the other magic numbers below will be a solution:

026002532 Bank of Nova Scotia
026002516 Scotia Bank (Try both?)
026003243 Toronto Dominion
026002558 CIBC

I hope someone can be our ginny pig - I'm going to try at least TD and Scotia bank but I don't have a CIBC account. Any volunteers?

I still don't know if the RBC routing number works on Canadian accounts or just US currency accounts. Still lots and lots of confusion on this topic after years of research.

I only know the RBC works but this method should work with all banks with the right ABA code. I did some googling and found out that the above banks all have branch in New York. My guess is that the banks need to deal with US banks so it would be ideal for them to have US money inside the US banking system. Also, it would be easier for them to invest in the US.

Although I have bank account with BMO and TD, I am too lazy to open an US account to test all of them especially RBC worked well. I was able to withdraw upto $7000 without problem right now (Not all at once silly, you'll get pwned by PayPal if you withdraw more than $2500).

Does anyone want a simple guide to add an US bank account to PayPal?

026002516 is BMO's US routing code.

I suggest everyone go with the RBC bank method since it is proven to work.

026002516 is BMO's US routing code.

I suggest everyone go with the RBC bank method since it is proven to work.

EH? I thought that was Scotiabank's, according to the URL's I gave.

For crying out loud - I did find yet another website stating that Bank of Montreal's routing code is the same as Scotia Bank's. How in the world can two completely different banks have the same routing number? What a crock!

Well I opened up a Bank of Montreal account to set things straight - I have to order some cheques or search for a few months to find the right routing code though.

For your information - RBC was a failure. I sent in an application for an RBC account at an RBC branch and they rejected it. The customer service at both the RBC branch and RBC Centura was poor. RBC Centura was nice on phone - but they were jerks when I submitted the application. They only want to open the accounts for folks travelling to USA with a US Mailing address, and were very cocky with my application even though I was an existing RBC customer.

The RBC Canada branch also knew basically nothing about the Centura account and was baffled when I mentioned anything about it. They discouraged me from opening it since it was too hard for them to figure out - i.e. lazy employees. I had to explain to them what the account was and direct them around the website. Terrible - how do these employees slip through the system and get hired? How come the customer knows more about their bank packages then they do? Anyway - hoping for good knews with BMO.

For crying out loud - I did find yet another website stating that Bank of Montreal's routing code is the same as Scotia Bank's. How in the world can two completely different banks have the same routing number? What a crock!

Well I opened up a Bank of Montreal account to set things straight - I have to order some cheques or search for a few months to find the right routing code though.

For your information - RBC was a failure. I sent in an application for an RBC account at an RBC branch and they rejected it. The customer service at both the RBC branch and RBC Centura was poor. RBC Centura was nice on phone - but they were jerks when I submitted the application. They only want to open the accounts for folks travelling to USA with a US Mailing address, and were very cocky with my application even though I was an existing RBC customer.

The RBC Canada branch also knew basically nothing about the Centura account and was baffled when I mentioned anything about it. They discouraged me from opening it since it was too hard for them to figure out - i.e. lazy employees. I had to explain to them what the account was and direct them around the website. Terrible - how do these employees slip through the system and get hired? How come the customer knows more about their bank packages then they do? Anyway - hoping for good knews with BMO.

Any luck getting BMO to work?

No luck - routing number doesn't work in any EFT system I tried.

Although I have bank account with BMO and TD, I am too lazy to open an US account to test all of them especially RBC worked well. This is true, but RBC USD accounts helps only to take money out of PP(at least I received the control deposits from PP on my RBC USD account). Someone have any ideas about ways to deposit USD from USD account in Canadian bank to PP?

Just great... received letter from PP regarding my RBC USD acc.: "Dear *****, We received your faxed documents in regards to the bank account ending in xxxx. This bank account has been disabled because it is a Canadian bank account denominated in U.S. Dollars. Due to financial service licensing agreements, PayPal is not able to support Canadian bank accounts denominated in U.S. Dollars (only Canadian Dollar accounts can be used). Members in Canada are also able to add a U.S. bank account that is located within the United States." So, only centura will help to solve this problem, but it's so painful to open the centura account...

TD is pretty bad. How come so many people have CAD accounts? USD is the best!

Any updates if this (old) method still works?
I am set up a Royal Bank U.S. Personal account, and entered in all of the correct information.
The deposits were sent, and I checked my branch today (the deposits were sent today) - and they have yet to be receieved.

Does it take time for the deposits to appear, or does this method no longer work?

Any latest up dates for the year 2007.

Opening a Centura account at Royal Bank is very hard. The Funniest thing is that the representatives at Royal bank does not even know what is a Centura account. After I inquiry to the bank manager , he told me that you must have USA resident to open up one.

Opening a Bank of America across the border is no answer either. That bank requires you to have a social security number.

I speak to various banks in Canada and nobody knows what is "Paypal" is?

Need of a desperate solution.

I'd like to know if this still works with the RBC US account (withdrawing from paypal). And if it does, I have an ordinary savings with them, would it be hard to open a US checking account ??

026002516 is BMO's US routing code.

I suggest everyone go with the RBC bank method since it is proven to work.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. Unfortunately I learned of this after finding that my new BMO USD business acct won't work.

Has anyone tried the US Routing code Animedude talked about?

I have two BMO business accts, and a Canadian and USD c.card w/them, so I would like to stay w/them.
Thanks!

Anyone make any headway getting USD BMO account to work with Canadian Paypal account?

Opening a Centura account at Royal Bank is very hard. The Funniest thing is that the representatives at Royal bank does not even know what is a Centura account. After I inquiry to the bank manager , he told me that you must have USA resident to open up one.


One of the RBC managers told me I didn't have to be a USA resident to open a Centura account, but it would take some time to open one.

Hi - I have a question about the statement below (from the 1st post in this thread). Can someone tell me why I need to change the leading 9 to a 0? Nobody else in any other thread has said anything about this. The cheques I got from Royal Bank have a 9 at the beginning of the transit number.

<<Now, for your account number, take your branch's transit number (this is 5 digits, and should begin with a zero. I belive it to also be the first 5 digits on the account part of your US cheques, except if it begins with a 9 replace the 9 with a zero. >>

What if we avoid bank accounts altogether? Doesnt paypal offer a feature where they send out a cheque instead of transfering the funds to the bank directly?

Can someone with a canadian paypal account try this out with US funds?

Paper cheque is not available to canadian paypal accounts - I asked.

Paypal debit card is not available to canadian paypal accounts - I asked. (I believe it used to be, though).


Does anyone have a Centura BUSINESS account, and use it with paypal? If so, how did you open the account?

Hi Peep: I noticed something regarding the the routing #'s. Look at the bank information. It's CIBC(NY). The address is American; in NY. Now look at the magical RBC rounting number and RBC's address; American and in NY. So I'm guessing you'd have to find your bank's American address? Try it. Oh and for my Account Number on paypal do I put my banks Transit # combined with my bank account number? Do I leave out the 3 digit institution number? Thanx.

Actually none of the CIBC numbers work. I went to RBC and they said that they actually own a US bank maybe this has something to due with it? But I'm sure the other major bank all own US branches. Anyway I opened an account with RBC we'll see if this one works.

Actually none of the CIBC numbers work. I went to RBC and they said that they actually own a US bank maybe this has something to due with it? But I'm sure the other major bank all own US branches. Anyway I opened an account with RBC we'll see if this one works.

RBC(Centura) has their own bank in the US to deal with USD whereas other Canadian banks use an intermediate bank (Wachovia).

Wanted to confirm Animedude's point on RBC accounts: use 026004093, not 021000021

Although RBC reps will insist that 021000021 is their only routing number, PayPal will not take it. The confirmation deposits are refused. I successfully confirmed my account using 026004093 however.

The easiest way will probably to read the numbers off the checks provided with that account. but, in my case the account number on the bottom of my RBC checks doesn't work, since it is for physical check clearing and not for direct deposit.

From 2003 to 2010, we still cannot have a good solution for this case.. EH..This is Canada!

Authorize.net and Mercury are better payment gateways. at least better than PayPal