Hi Guys,

Just curious how many Linux / Unix hosts go the extra mile in assisting customers with installing / debugging CGI scripts. Our customers seem to think that this is part of our services and our staff spends considerable time doing this. The issues range from setting permissions to debugging the scripts and sometimes the associated HTML.

I fixed a real horror show last night; The customer was trying to use formmail.pl in a couple of pages. He did not have formmail in his cgi-bin. Instead, he had the HTML with the forms in them in his cgi-bin. His HTML had numerous <form></form> tags all over it. The posts to the the forms all had action="". What a mess!

We normally do this for our customers if it is not too time consuming, but I am just wondering if everbody else does this. It just seems to be out of the scope of "web hosting" in general.

Thanks:)

We (dreamhost) usually do a fair bit of helping out with CGI scripts.

We mainly do it because when we were starting out I did it (I just figured it was faster and easier than trying to explain to them how to fix it, and made them really happy), and so we've sort of kept it as a policy. If it's something that can't be fixed by us within about 10-15 minutes though, we explain to them we tried, but something is really screwed up with it and they should try and get support from wherever they got the script originally.

Most customers do realize that it IS beyond the scope of what a web host really needs to do, so if you DO do it, they really appreciate it and get very happy/loyal.

Yeah.

Yeah, we started out the same way. Just doing it ourselves instead of explaining how to do it, which would definitely take much longer than 10 or 15 minutes. We have the same general rule. After 15 minutes it becomes cost ineffective.

I agree, they are usually psyched when we get it going for them and that's great PR. No doubt about that.

that is the question...whether tis nobler in the mind to assist customers with their development....

Anywhoo...helping out customers who are in too deep with their scripts can be a great value-added service.

Or, it can be a good revenue generator if you've got a developer on staff who needs to earn his keep.

Usually, if the request is simple enough, we do it for free. If it involves re-coding perl, php, html, or anything else, we charge an hourly rate for it. When we do that, we put lots of comments into what we do so that the customer learns from the mistakes and hopefully can better debug in the future.

Well I have to say that as a CGI programmer, its good when hosts co-operate with helping customers that are having some difficulty. When we're designing our scripts, we take in as many different operating systems, server software and configurations as possible, but we can't get them all. Solaris seems to play tricks with file ownership, some Linux configurations require higher file permissions and NT can be a pain if any setting is slightly out of the ordinary.

Usually, when a customer has a problem, we seem to be the first port of call (which is fair enough), and usually we can fix problems fairly quickly. Sometimes, however, we come up against a server whose configuration we just can't grasp, and have to ask the user to get in touch with their host for information or advice.

When the host is helpful, even liasoning with us to get the script working for a mutual customer, things almost always work out, and the problem gets solved quickly.

Then, sometimes, we get forwarded an e-mail from the customer's host that basically says, "Sorry, we don't help with CGI scripts". Not an ounce of information, no advice or anything. It's sad really. The customer gets stuck, we're stuck, and they just have to move on with unresolved problems that they'll likely encounter with their next CGI script too.

I think hosts probably have to know where they fit in with CGI scripts. The designers and programmers obviously know the most about the script, and how to install it, but the host knows more about the server that its being installed on to. I think its reasonable to ask hosts to help if their help is needed, but also reasonable that hosts shouldn't have to offer support for things that the programmer should really be supporting.

Yeah, we usually help the customer with any script installation - if they are stuck or have little/no knowledge of perl/php, etc. :) We don't charge for smaller script installations or scripts we are very familiar with and don't take more than 10-15 minutes to install ...like UltraBoard 2000 or vBulletin.

We have a very strict policy AGAINST debugging user installed scripts. I had to do this after I was spending a big chunk of my profits on tech support...and realized that 50% of it was due to my staff working on user installed cgi scripts and web development issues.

Here is what our support page says:

"Web design, web development/FTP software issues and debugging/troubleshooting third party cgi scripts are NOT the responsibility of Affordable Host technical support staff.

Thank you!"

Feel free to use this, if you want. :)

Of course, we still get the occassional requests for help with this - I'll usually say "Our policy is....(insert policy here)" and then conclude it by giving them some general hints on where their code is screwed up.

This has GREATLY reduced support expenses...and has allowed us to provide even better support on things that DO fall under acceptable support issues (issues related directly to their hosting account - and not webdevelopment stuff).

--Tina

Originally posted by AffordableHost
Of course, we still get the occassional requests for help with this - I'll usually say "Our policy is....(insert policy here)" and then conclude it by giving them some general hints on where their code is screwed up.

That is where my 15 minutes come into play (the "give them some general hints on where their code is screwed up" part). Anything after that, _especially_ re-writing code, is done with no problem, but at an hourly rate.

Yeah, my thought is that by telling them it's against policy - and then giving some general hints, it serves two purposes.

First, they think "Yay, I'm getting free help that I normally wouldn't!" - instead of "Damn ******* hosting service won't help me!". :)

Second, next time they have self-inflicted CGI problems - they will know that we don't provide support for it and they probably won't ask.

--Tina

Wow, I just noticed my last post and WHT censored my use of the word *******. I didn't think ******* was that bad of a word! :D

--Tina

Good points, Tina. :)

I don't know what ******* is and I won't ask either. :D

Starts with "B" - ends with "D" and has "astar" in the middle! :D

This begs me to ask the question, do you have any stock form pages that can be made available to users?

This may cut out many requests for basic errors, i have seen somewhere hosts that create the code via a script that you can cut and paste into a page.

Might be useful to share a few stock form pages.

Originally posted by AffordableHost
Starts with "B" - ends with "D" and has "astar" in the middle! :D

You can't type bastard or bastards here? Well, ****! :-)

Bastard ? Works here :D

*feeling insulted*

Well why did it censor me then??? Sheez! ;)

--Tina

As a customer for a web hosting company. I think it is nice when the company helps you with a basic setup. But you don't pay them to be your website tech support thats basiclly the web designers responbility. Also thats why you own your own domain name. Is to cater to our site and figure things out for yourself.I ask for it rarely with one of my hosts only because he will help.

Originally posted by AffordableHost
*feeling insulted*

Well why did it censor me then???
The short answer is: To piss you off!

anywho, it is great that some of you are providing us customers help...it makes the customer happy. However, I think you should help for a certin time/amt. of work and then charge for the help, IMHO

I think a great way of helping customers out is putting up tiny test scripts which show the customer how things works. For example if someone is having difficulty connecting to the database via perl (some servers may have different DBI statements for connecting), I put up a tiny program which does the work and say selects a row from the table.

Or if someone says, My program doesn't send mail via sendmail, I put up a formmail script which works. 90% of the time, customers/webmasters figure it out and apply it to their program.

Hmmm.. Come to think of it, I have managed to collect quite a number of these scripts and use them regularly, so that I do not have to spend extra time each time. If all else fails, I try to help my clients out. But this does not occur very frequently.

Generally we help the user with scripts and design problems, but I always tell my tech support team that they need to explain that it is not the primary fuction of a webhosting company to help with design and scripting. We always give other issues a priority over debugging scripts and code.

So as a basic rule, we do help with that kind of that, but only when we have time.

ecomiscool.com

don't suppose you would share some of these scripts :D