I had a client today who made an order but refused to pay until I setup his account and transfer all his accounts from his old host over. I told him I can not create the account until payment is recieved, so he said nevermind then. Do you think it is a good idea to setup accounts before payment is recieved? What would you have done in this situation?

:homer: No way would I set the account up until payment was received.
Sounds like a scam to me.

I've gotten burned from setting them up, even buying their domain name... then never receiving payment. So in my opinion, no, don't do it.

I would have politely said, "Sorry, but it's against policy to provide services before payment is received" and let them go elsewhere if this did not suit - especially since this person was asking you to transfer the site files for them.

The only two reasons I can think of for someone asking for this are:

1) they've been burned before, and so don't want to prepay and lose their money again
2) they're trying to scam you

You did the right thing for sure!
NEVER set up an account before payment is received.:)

Hmm, could you not just cancel their account in about 20 seconds if they didn't pay?

No. They want me to setup their account and transfer all of their old accounts over and get everything up and running. Then they basically want to decide if they like my service or not :/

At what point would you cancel the account: 20 seconds after creation? A few days? Also, this is extra work that has to be done: you have to monitor the accounts to see which ones are on trial period, cancel the ones that aren't or send invoices, and all that. And even so, you're going to find people who complain that you cancelled their account for no reason if they don't pay.

There are pluses or minuses to either decision - but for me (and for most people here, judging by the replies) the potential pros of providing a free trial period are outweighed by the potential cons.

If you have someone who wants to decide whether they like your service or not, they can transfer over one account and be your hosting customer for a month or two or however long they wish to evaluate the value of your service before moving their other accounts over.

I agree with everyone here. Protect yourself from being burned. Also, if you have a 30 day money back guarantee, you could tell the guy he has nothing to lose by trying your service for a month.

I told him that but I don't think it's encouraging him. That is why I feel it may be a really bad idea.

Never ever ever ever ever setup accounts without payment.

Ever.

--Tina

Like the others say, don't do it.

You don't need or want the hassle, do you?
Many people get burned by scammers like these, so what if he is legit and all - he could at least trust your 30 day money back guarantee?

If you are desperate for his service, do it - otherwise I'd stay away from him.
Never setup accounts before payment, totally bad in the long run.

I'm far from desperate for his service. hehe ;) I'm not going to do it unless he pays first. Thanks for the advise everyone!

Personally (and this is just me), I would happily set people up before receiving payment, though I would not pay for their domain name costs. Why? Unless you are close to your bw limit for your server already, there is no actual cost to you. It also generates good will.

EDIT: In terms of how it works with the domain name, either they deal with it themselves or I give them a subdomain of a 3 character domain I keep around for the purpose.

Well, I do setup accts prior to payment if the order is for check/money order. But I state in my tos that acct will be suspended/deleted if payment is not recieved within a time limit. Now I know this could just open me up to abuse but it could also open up to a client who for whatever reason can't or doesn't want to pay via credit card. Or they don't feel comfortable posting their bank info with paypal. I think it just gives a good rapore with your clients.

However I will not purchase a domain name for them.

Originally posted by mhale
I had a client today who made an order but refused to pay until I setup his account and transfer all his accounts from his old host over. I told him I can not create the account until payment is recieved, so he said nevermind then. Do you think it is a good idea to setup accounts before payment is recieved? What would you have done in this situation?
You did the right thing. If they don't pay, no dance. :D

Yeah. I mean: Does your ISP allow you to signup before you pay?
Do they allow you to use the Internet before you pay?

Simple: THEY DON'T!


You said you are not desperate for their service, so just leave them totally alone. Sounds more like a scam to me than anything else.

I don't see a lot of other companies doing it, plus they want your service meaning they should bend to your rules: not the other way.

With an ISP or anything you pay in advance.
(Except with mine, they didn't bill me first month :D ... then they quickly picked up on it and double billed the next month :( )

yea it's easy to deactive their accounts , but if it gets out that you give out accounts before you get paid, then script kiddies and spamers are going to flock to you.

on that note about the kiddies , if you offer to much for to little you'll attract them too.

a host I had offer *********** limited root access(all the perks minus Virtual reboot, and ability to recompile daemons) for CHEAP CHEAP , and he got flooded with script kiddies

Yeah, there are just too many cons for offering Free Trial Periods - the very reason why so few do, if any even!

You're better off with a money back guarantee - if you even want to offer one of those too.


I cannot think off hand if any do, but I'll try and find some - maybe the topic starter can talk to them and see how they found the free trials go and whether they get abused.
Although I doubt I'll actually find many if any. :cartman:

If it's an account with a low profit margin, the customer can pay first and transfer the files himself. If it's a client willing to pay $20/month per domain, then I would be willing to work something out after verifying the order. My times too valuable to do any extra work on a low cost/low profit margin plan.

-Mike

If you are making no profit on that account or it is just too low to be of any real value to transfer over the accounts - you're just waisting your time.


Personally, from all the information you provided and all these posts:

I SAY DUMP HIM


It's up to you, that is my thought though - why waist your precious time on something that you wont make money on?

For your information its Adult 100gb+ reseller account (and growing). I have had several times (more like everytime) where sites were transferred inproperly I have post nuke sites, forum sites, script sites, etc and this is a move from Ensim servers to CPanel servers so the absolute paths dont exactly match. All I wanted was to show me that he could transfer them without a hitch, I did not even need login and password information so what possible scam are you talking about and if it was a scam why would the customer want to transfer sites? Why would it even be a big plan? Why not a tiny little 5 dollar plan?

Also for the person that said ISP doesnt allow you to sign up before pay....I think your extremely confused 90% of all ISPs allow you to sign up before pay.

For the people that keep yelling scam this scam that, I wasnt even aware of his 30 day money back guarantee until after he posted this thread and even then he uses 2checkout and I used them when they first started so pardon me if I dont trust their refund system. Anyone that used 2checkout back then knows exactly what im talking about.

I told you I had a 30 day money back gaurantee while we were chatting :/

mhale, the customer is always right. :)

Originally posted by ddent
mhale, the customer is always right. :)

I doubt that :)

i know, i said after you posted the thread.

Originally posted by Ifrit
Why would it even be a big plan? Why not a tiny little 5 dollar plan?


It's just too much work to transfer an account from two servers with different control panels. You have to check and verify scripts, export/import databases, setup email aliases, etc. All that for $5/month or an adult site that is going to use all the resources on a larger plan. You have would to keep the person a couple of years or get a bunch a referals to even pay for your time on moving the account. Now if it was a new host or somebody trying to break even with server fees than....

-Mike

eh....I meant why would I be asking for a big plan if it was a scam most scam people would sign up for a tiny cheap plan if it was for spam or something

You have been burned by hosts and we have been burned by clients so you need to meet somewhere in the middle.

-Mike

My only guess is he doesn't trust my money back gaurantee. I've had 2 people take use of it so far. They both were foreign and didn't understand the control panel. :/ hehe

Originally posted by Ifrit
Also for the person that said ISP doesnt allow you to sign up before pay....I think your extremely confused 90% of all ISPs allow you to sign up before pay.



Maybe in America, I don't know - yet I can guarantee you through Europe there isn't an ISP that allows you to signup and connect without you handing them your CC info. That's a fact.
Remember: Myself not living in the US means I don't know how you guys over there act since I have heard a lot of things such as telephone, etc. are totally free, etc. and a lot of other things but obviously we can each only talk for our own experiences and the things that relate to near us.


Also you said that the scammers go for cheap only packages.
Not always the case I'm afraid, web hosts find that actually a lot of the time the scams are done on their largest package usually for a yearly term but near enough to always the largest but obviously depends varying on the host.

we hand the cc info but we dont pay for the first month

Payment recieved = Account will be setup ....

We will setup new accounts before payment for clients that have existing accounts with us.

The only other time we will setup accounts before payment is if we know the client.

Domains are never registered prior to payment being received. This is a rule that we stick by.

--Shaun

Then they basically want to decide if they like my service or not :/

I think I'll try that stunt at a restaurant. Eat my meal, then I'll pay them for it......if I like it.

Oh, to add on.

Account upgrades = instant, they are billed starting the following month.

Domain registration = Just like mentioned above, won't be done until payment. Non-refundable too.

restaurant isnt a service actually if you think about it all services are pay after.

Do you tip the waitress at that restaurant before she provides good service?

When you go to the mechanic do you pay before hand?

When you hire a programmer to program an application do you pay before hand?

When you hire an digital artist do you pay before the art is finished?

When you pay a movers to move your stuff from one house to another do you pay them before the move? Of course not who knows what they might drop or break same thing applies here except its much easier to mess up a script than it is to drop that table ornament.

It is true that its the norm to setup an account after payment but im not in the least bit concerned about his abilities to do that i mean obviously that aspect is not a problem but one of my requirements was to have all the sites transferred and functioning.

None the less I do plan to use mr mhale's services if I can not find an alternative host within the next week or 2. Even if I do have to go with paying first.

Originally posted by Ifrit
we hand the cc info but we dont pay for the first month



Whoa!
You mean over my whole life through all the ISP's I've been through... that they all owe me money since I paid for my first month?!?! :eek:

lol.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Maybe there - I'm not sure. But here, certainly not. This applies to both not paying for the first month ;) and the only pay after use.


Also on some of those things, it depends. Also remembering we each speak from our own experience and how the companies work in our own countries
If you hire a programmer to create a script or something - then they expect at least 50% first, same with house moving companies. (Remembering: I talk from where I'm from and that's not the US - and remember, not every country is the same)

yup over here first month is free in every major isp. If its not free then its like first 3 months half price which is what some cable modem companies are doing.

Just an update for you guys mhale said the transfer would take minutes I then paid him for the account early monday morning and he has still not even begun to transfer the accounts nor is he replying to any of my IMs, his helpdesk is answered by some generic person that obviously has no knowledge of mhales business probably just some support team that works for 5 bucks a month. No communication at all tuesday or wednesday so far I even messaged him asking for my money back since he isnt doing anything and nothing on that matter either.

THIS IS WHY I NORMALLY DO NOT PAY FIRST WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSFERS!

each company has policies and most of it, you are required to pay first. If you lucky, you can get some "desperate host" that willing to set up the account for you before you pay.

Hmmmm ....

Me personally , I am one of a now HUGE and growing number of people who have been burned by host and are Very Leery of any host that refuses to offer some sort of free trial before payment ... ( Hmmmm ... what do ya have to hide ??? )
I have been burned a number of times by supposedly great host who read well and offer the world BUT want money UP FRONT .
It's been my experience that host that refuse to offer a free trial before payment turn out to offer poor service and or go under fast and go under WITH your money .

I am apalled at those here who are saying that those people who want free trials first are scam artist .... now where did that bent logic come from ... you as the host has the ultimate power in the situation , it takes all of 10 seconds or less to shut an account down for non payment by a specified or agreed to deadline .
Hmmmm ....
What is the real reason for those mandatory up front payments ... are you afraid that said person will test drive your services only to pick up and leave because they discover the hosting and or service is poor .... slow servers , rottin tech support , etc ...
Once that host has your money they have the ultimate upper hand as it is next to impossible to get that money back from them especially if they have gone under !!!

I will not even consider a host these days that does not offer a free trial on there hosting services and am eyemarking all those here who have hosting services / companies who are making those blatant statements so I can be sure NEVER to consider them or to pass their hosting company names around in the many many online forums I belong to that are full of people looking for a great host .

The true logic and the bottom line is this ...

If you and your hosting company and its services are up to par and have nothing to hide , you won't have a problem at all with persons who wanna test drive before they buy .

14 day , 21 day, or 30 days would not be a problem for the host who knows they have top notch services to offer the paying public who are concerned about what they are getting into.

Oh and VNPIXEL ...

To label host who offer free trials as " DESPERATE " is not only NOT TRUE ... but unfair .... and is downright pathetic

The host ... ( which are now becoming dinosaurs and are a rapidly dying breed ) whom utterly refuse to offer a test drive are in fact the desperate one's , with apparently something to hide which is why they must snatch the money up front ... FOR LEVERAGE .


MB2003

MB2003..

I personally would never use a host that gives free trials simply because NO server is 100% secure. What type of person who is truly interested in using a service would need a free trial? I could think of all kinds of things I could do with a free trial that could bring a company down. Anything from spam, to using it to charge credit cards from a remote server, to creating a small perl script to crash the server. It is quite easy.

I do not see how not giving free trials would insinuate you have something to hide. I am 100% honest with all of my clients and potential clients. Lately, we have been having some problems with the hard drive, but we are working on transferring clients to a new server. When a client or potential client asks me how our uptime is, I am completely honest and tell them not that great lately and all the reasons why.

My company has nothing to hide, but I do not offer free trials simply because of the risks. There are still high risks of hosting even a paying client, but if the client pays, it shows (most of the time) they are serious about needing hosting.

Also, I do not believe VNPIXEL was labeling all hosts who give free trials. However, the fact is that most are indeed desperate. Anyone who is willing to take that big of a risk just to earn a few dollars should not be hosting clients. My clients mean everything to me and I would never risk their data and service for a few potential dollars (there is no guarantee a free trial client would sign up).

My point is that free trials or even allowing someone to signup before payment is received is, in general, a bad idea. I would personally never use a host that does this.

Hmmmm ...

"What type of person who is truly interested in using a service would need a free trial? " . , ...

Answer : ( as already stated ) ... a now HUGE and growing number of people who have been burned by host who don't offer a free trial and want money UP FRONT .
___

" My company has nothing to hide, but I do not offer free trials simply because of the risks " ., ...

Comment : Oh and there are NO risk with those that have pre paid already ???
____

" My point is that free trials or even allowing someone to signup before payment is received is, in general, a bad idea. I would personally never use a host that does this."., ...

Comment : My Point is NOT allowing free trials of some sort is in general a bad idea , especially these days because of soooo many bad host being out there that just wanna work your pockets ... I would NEVER again even consider or entertain the thought of or refer a host which would not allow one to see what there service is like first ...
___

Just one of my experiences ...
Signed up with a host who once again read very well ... package was just great , promised , 24 hours tech support , 99 % uptime etc ... etc ...
Paid the money and within the first 2 weeks my site was down 7 times and It took 5 days only to get an auto-responder with a notice that they would contact me soon and of course never did .

I have yet to get my money back and then discovered that the host site ( notice posted ) was " down for maintenance " ... ( usually means they are about to disappear and wouldn't ya know a short time after that the host site disappeared .

I know there are a lot of great , honest host out there whom are sincere and that offer great services and are stable and maintain long lasting businesses .... those are the host I seek and the host who will allow a potential customer to see what their service is like are the host who get my business and/or referrals .


I wouldn't buy a car without a test drive ... would you ???
I wouldn't buy shoes or clothes without first trying them on ... ( test drive ) or knowing what I am getting ... would you ???

SPECIAL NOTE :
To all the great , honest host and those whom offer hosting type services ( a lot of whom are members also here at WHT ) whom are reading this and that are out there , this ISNOT intended to be or meant to be a personal attack of any kind on or against you , your business(es) or any host who DONOT offer free trials ....
This is only meant to be a sharing of my viewpoint in this forum environment which enables one to look at this issue from another standpoint and from the standpoint also of a growing number of others which I've encountered on this very issue .

MB2003

Peace not War.:)
Love not Hate ;)
Positive Open Minded Discussions not Closed Minded venting with twist and spewls of anger :beer:

Oh and sorry about such long post , but , as you can see ... Yes , I Cannnnnn Talk !

Gotta Go ... Got a Lot of FTPing ta do !!!

business is businees. Let say in our case, we do offer money back guarranty but you pay first, we provide service, if you don't like, we are happy to refund. Same thing if you go to compusa or bestbuy, you buy a product, if you don't like it, you just simply return and get your money back. Can you walk in and ask for a free trial before you payout? i guess not. So would you say they hide something with their product?

Uhhhhh ...

" Same thing if you go to compusa or bestbuy, you buy a product, if you don't like it, you just simply return and get your money back. Can you walk in and ask for a free trial before you payout? i guess not. So would you say they hide something with their product? "., ...

Not a good analogy ...

Not the same thing at all , does not even come close in comparison ...
There's no need for a free trial if you go into a comp usa or best buy for anything .... you can see exactly what you are getting , up front , ( and that's my point ... ) ... you can touch it , handle it and depending on what you are buying open it ... ( and if you cannot open it you can bet there's a demo available ) , to add , there are demos ... demos and more demos of anything you would buy in the store ... so you can see exactly what's going on with any product you would buy before you buy it ... and to top it all off they still offer a money back guarantee if within some time frame you are not satisfied ....
To take your own analogy one step further ... Would you go into that same comp usa or best buy and buy something off of a typed or written product list without seeing it , without any actual physical products being in that store ??? , ... without knowing exactly what you are getting .... NO you would not !

As for ... " So would you say they hide something with their product? " ., ...

NO . because they arenot hiding anything , because it's all there in the open , UP FRONT for one to see and experience BEFORE you buy .

When one prepays a host UP FRONT , one does NOT know what they are actually getting into , ... they cannot experience there services , there is no demo to view , one can compare that ( prepaying without a trial ) to basically looking at a written or typed product list with nothing else to go on .... and some like you , WILL refund money promptly a lot of em donot and never do .


MB2003

True, they can not experience it. However, that is why they should do research before they get a new host. That is what places like WebHostingTalk is for. To allow users to research hosts before they go with them. It's kind of like having surgery. You can't 'try' the doctor before he does your surgery. You have to do research to find the best one.

<< Just an update for you guys mhale said the transfer would take minutes I then paid him for the account early monday morning and he has still not even begun to transfer the accounts nor is he replying to any of my IMs, his helpdesk is answered by some generic person that obviously has no knowledge of mhales business probably just some support team that works for 5 bucks a month. No communication at all tuesday or wednesday so far I even messaged him asking for my money back since he isnt doing anything and nothing on that matter either.

THIS IS WHY I NORMALLY DO NOT PAY FIRST WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSFERS! >>

Question I have - what happened to him?


Secondly, MB2003 - hosts have been burned by people like that.
Previous my company offered it, yet we were burned and because of that one sole person we no longer offer it - plus for the fact we have been around since longer than 2001, none of our pre-clients are worried about us going out of business since we charge realistic prices - meaning they are more $$$ for the GB of bandwidth.

Originally posted by mhale
I had a client today who made an order but refused to pay until I setup his account and transfer all his accounts from his old host over. I told him I can not create the account until payment is recieved, so he said nevermind then. Do you think it is a good idea to setup accounts before payment is recieved? What would you have done in this situation?

Can you afford to spend this time and NOT get paid? If so sure go ahead. However if this person stiffs you completely will it hurt at all? If so heck no, no pay no play.

I often setup accounts if they say they're sending a check, probably done it several dozen times, I've gotten stiffed once, but these are small accounts and I can eat one every so often but if we were talking a big account or a lot of work (setting up their scripts, etc) then I'd probably wanna see some green first!

Originally posted by mhale
No. They want me to setup their account and transfer all of their old accounts over and get everything up and running. Then they basically want to decide if they like my service or not :/

I guess thats where you can flex your 30-day money back guarantee.

We offer free trials to folks. We do a lot of fraud detection during the signup process that doesn't involve payment.

We even give out free colo trials to folks. We used to do trials on the dedicated servers as well, but less than 7 days.

I am not saying we don't get abuse from it.. but it is minimal. We get more abuse from the paying customers than we do from these trial users.

If you maintain your systems well, and keep on top of the activity on the machine, you shouldn't have too many problems.

Hmmmm ...

I think I should elaborate a little here because its something I see here now that I need to touch on which will clear a major point up ....


Okayyyy ...

I'll do it this way ... I am gonna add in a few already posted quotes to my post and comment ...


First quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mhale
I had a client today who made an order but refused to pay until I setup his account and transfer all his accounts from his old host over. I told him I can not create the account until payment is recieved, so he said nevermind then. Do you think it is a good idea to setup accounts before payment is recieved? What would you have done in this situation?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Second quote :

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mhale
No. They want me to setup their account and transfer all of their old accounts over and get everything up and running. Then they basically want to decide if they like my service or not :/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Comments :

Something here that really jumped out at me is this :

" all of their old accounts " ., ...

" all his accounts from his old host over. ". ,...

Ahhhhhh ...
Hmmmmm ...

My viewpoint referencing free trial of some sort is SOLELY based on ONE ( 1 ) Single ( not multiple ) ... 1 website ONLY !

An account which contains 1 site or 1 site from a multiple site account ...

1 person looking to try your services by transferring over 1 ( one ) of his / her sites ONLY !

To Further Add ...

Example :
I have 5 business websites which we sell a wide range of merchandise at on 4 of them .
I take my business very serious and donot and will not tolerate some host who is not up to par at their end with services .
I donot expect to get emails from my potential customers or regulars who are inquiring as to why the site is down 2 or 3 times a day or a week .... ETC ...

And the most dreadful ... ( which by the way will send me thru the nearest roof and really get that cursin button started in me ) ...
Why the site has stopped working while they ( customers ) are trying to SEND ME MONEY !!!!

Nowwww... back to my point ...

If I am looking for a new host , It is NOT necessary for me to transfer ALL of my sites over to do a trial run , NOR have I ever or do I ever request that of any host ... to me that's ludicrous.

If I want to see what their services are like at the NEW host , I will request and proceed to transfer over 1 ( one ) website from my OLD account and do a trial run , If all goes well than I will then pay for and transfer the entire account over to the NEW host .

Again , it is not neccessary for me to transfer over everything ( all sites ) and expect all that work at the new host end to be for free or as trial .

Soooo ...

To answer Dixiesys question ... " Can you afford to spend this time and NOT get paid? "., ...

Quite honestly and abruptly ... Heck NO !
I would not do that as a host nor would I expect you to if you are encountering that much work by moving over multple sites .

I would however , expect said host to consider a trial run on or for one ( 1) website of an account .




MB









My viewpoint is based

Well MB2003 - you do make a lot of valid points, I do admit that.
But us web hosts do get burned, abused, etc. too - and it is not only the client who gets the bad bits.

Hosts are always looking at ways to reduce risks, etc. so they can provide a better service to their true and loyal clients.

Now, don't get me wrong - paid clients can cause trouble too, yet it is somewhat compensated by the fact they actually paid while the freebie man who took the free trial ruins you and runs, while you can do nothing.

At least with the person who pays, you'll have their address, phone number, etc. etc. - or you should do providing you keep your books correctly and use a good credit card processor that checks well for fraud, etc.

We may go back into giving out free trials - I don't know for sure myself. No one knows what the future can bring.

There are many many many valued, trusted, respectable and reputable hosting companies out there such as HostRocket, Site5 and others who wont give you a free trial since everyone knows and trusts them for obvious and various reasons.


I can understand that if Ifrit in reality didn't get hosted by MHales and just had his money taken - then I can understand why Ifrit is mad, yet depending on how he paid depends on whether he can get his money back.

Remember, in this industry paying with Credit Card will hurt the host most of the time, as the client can easily do a charge back providing it is within 60 days of purchase. If it is - then the client has no worries or troubles about getting his money back, in most cases even if it was not fraud. The banks, etc. are not concerned about us business on the Internet, they are only concerned about themselves, etc. and will do chargebacks without hassle - all you have to do is say "I didn't get what I was promised" and already the money has come back into the clients account.

Only in better banks such as Barclays will they deal with something like chargebacks more seriously, etc. - with Barclays, they don't do a charge back just like that at the click of your finger, you have to give proof, etc. and actually proove that it was fraud, that you didn't get your product and Barclays will actually investigate it and discuss it with the bank of the other company.

But remember MB2003, us business on the Internet are at just as much abuse, hassle and burn as you the client are. I understand your thoughts, etc. - but remember, it isn't your fault, it's the hundreds of others who have ruined it for you.

So don't blame me, other hosts here, your bank, credit card processors, etc. - blame the others who have ruined it and spoiled it for you.

Here is life in paradise fantasy village:

1) My local phone company today called me and told me they were going to offer me a "free trial" of local phone service. They said I can make all the calls I like for 30 days and if I'm not satisifed, I'm free to take my business elsewhere and don't have to pay for any calls I made.

2) My long distance phone service offered the same deal as above.

3) A restaurant in my town advertises a "free trial meal" Eat any meal on the menu, then only pay us if you like the meal. Didn't like it? No problem, we're so sure you'll like our food, you'll gladly pay us.

4) My favorite used car lot offers a "free trial offer" on all the cars on their lot. Drive any car for a "free 30 day trial" not happy with your car? try another one for another 30 days -- we're sure you'll eventually find one of our cars to your liking.

Originally posted by Hey It's Me
Here is life in paradise fantasy village:

1) My local phone company today called me and told me they were going to offer me a "free trial" of local phone service. They said I can make all the calls I like for 30 days and if I'm not satisifed, I'm free to take my business elsewhere and don't have to pay for any calls I made.

2) My long distance phone service offered the same deal as above.

3) A restaurant in my town advertises a "free trial meal" Eat any meal on the menu, then only pay us if you like the meal. Didn't like it? No problem, we're so sure you'll like our food, you'll gladly pay us.

4) My favorite used car lot offers a "free trial offer" on all the cars on their lot. Drive any car for a "free 30 day trial" not happy with your car? try another one for another 30 days -- we're sure you'll eventually find one of our cars to your liking.


Now that's total paradise! :D

....completely missing the point its like if people on this forum can't read or something. This is about transferring not a free trial for hosting I just didn't want to pay till he actually did the transfers (if he could do it successfully in the first place). Since he refused to transfer the sites before payment (since he is just as slack as the people posting here that don't even take the time to read the thread) obviously I made the mistake of paying him no huge evil deed happened, but I was 40 dollars short for a few days and a few days wasted on waiting for him to do something he probably never would have done.

So once again, for the slow people on the thread (most of you) this is about transferring. If your a prick and won't transfer the sites before payment then thats fine, go around yelling scam this scam that its obvious you are a down syndrome baby. I mean obviously if you have transferred all the sites over and everything is ready that the potential client is going to pay when its done. Not once on this thread did it ever say the host had to give the account information before it was done, the client is still taking a leap of faith giving him access to his webspace for the host to get the files to transfer. What risk does the host have exactly? The small chance that the client changes his mind? Maybe the host lost that (2 hours or less) that he spent transferring the sites?

Lets think about that....

2 hours vs selling 100gb a month

with odds of
5% vs 95%

Im sorry im obviously an idiot its obvious you guys are right I mean after all 50-100 bucks a month just isnt worth the 5% chance of wasting 2 hours that can be better spent posting incredibly stupid analogies on WHT!

Ifrit, I believe you are missing the point. Getting an account created before you pay is a free trial, it doesn't matter if it's 30 minutes or 30 years.

No I believe your missing the point and not reading, if you create the account and dont give me the login information what aspect of it exactly is a trial? When you transfer the sites over and show me that they are working then i pay and get the login information then technically there is no real trial is there.

Ifrit, I understand what you mean.
You only wanted him to transfer the site, and you'd only receive the login information once you paid - yet I don't think that was previously stated, or we just missed it. :D

But anyhow, if it was stated earlier in black and white that you'd only receive login once you've paid - then I'm sure everyone here would have said "Yeah go for it mhale, you've got nothing to lose then" because he wouldn't.

But from my memory, I'm not going to re-read the whole thread, I don't remember it stating that you'd only receive login after you've paid.

So, it was actually wrong on mhale's part - he misinformed us all, and told us something totally different :: bad mhale!! :stickout:

Anyhow, this is a lesson for all - give the exact information, don't twist the story as then it'll turn into something bad.

mhale - I think you should say sorry to Ifrit and then hopefully if he forgives, all will be fine.


<< Ifrit, I believe you are missing the point. Getting an account created before you pay is a free trial, it doesn't matter if it's 30 minutes or 30 years >>

mhale, I think you are being very misleading - which is totally wrong. I think you two should discuss this and be honest with each other. I'm seeing two sides of the story, both very different. The majority here backup mhale because he totally mislead us from the beginning - now I've no idea who to believe.

<< But anyhow, if it was stated earlier in black and white that you'd only receive login once you've paid - then I'm sure everyone here would have said "Yeah go for it mhale, you've got nothing to lose then" because he wouldn't. >>

Actually, I do have something to lose. The time and bandwidth it took to transfer all of those accounts if that user didn't want to stay.

<< Actually, I do have something to lose. The time and bandwidth it took to transfer all of those accounts if that user didn't want to stay. >>

So to get an answer you already knew from other people, you twisted your side of the story?


How much time did it take?
If you have broadband and a good FTP client such as FlashFXP - then not a lot of time at all since you can have it all setup perfectly.

How much bandwidth?
Barely any at all, if any at all. Since he'd only receive the login after he paid it would mean no one has view the websites online.


Therefore mhale - you I'm afraid were being dishonest to us all, and gave us a false story at the beginning so you could get us all to say "no don't do it" so you didn't have to sound like the bad guy, so you could have made us the users at WHT sound like the bad guys while you got away scott free with nothing bad against your rep. That's totally dishonest mhale - very bad business practice too.