I've been reading WHT for too long to not be amused by the amount of people who don't know what "Tier 1" actually means.

Tier 1 == YOU DO NOT BUY TRANSIT

If you buy transit from any ISP, you are not Tier 1, its that simple. You may have a high quality network, but you do not meet the typical definition of Tier1.

There are very few Tier 1 networks out there, maybe 3-4 of them. Ask NANOG if you do not believe me :)

ServeForce,

Totally with you but I could be wrong but dosen't UUNet (WorldCom) and the other buy transit? The best defination for a Tier 1 I have heard is one that own their own National/Global IP backbone and bilateral peering connecting multiple NAP's.

Just wondering? :)

Originally posted by existenz
ServeForce,

Totally with you but I could be wrong but dosen't UUNet (WorldCom) and the other buy transit? The best defination for a Tier 1 I have heard is one that own their own National/Global IP backbone and bilateral peering connecting multiple NAP's.

Just wondering? :)

I think UU, Genuity may be the only true Tier1 providers left. I could be wrong about that.

Your definition "National/Global IP backbone and bilateral peering" is not the same as "transitless"

However, not being a Tier1 network, doesn't make you a bad provider heh.

Sales people and other have misused Tier1 all over the place,its generally better left ignored...

Update: I'm wrong, I guess sprint is the only transitless network left. Genuity buys from L3, and UU is buying from someone else since bankrupcy I guess.

I can see now how the defination is wrong :D

I just want your thoughs on this...

From what I understand today if I were to walk up to you and ask who the Tier 1's were would't you tell me these names:

Level 3, C&W, Sprint, AT&T, Worldcom, Qwest, Genuity

I just want to hear your opinion because I seem to get into this debate often. I to am sick of people using the term loosly.

Thanks for your thoughs!

Originally posted by existenz
I can see now how the defination is wrong :D
From what I understand today if I were to walk up to you and ask who the Tier 1's were would't you tell me these names:

Level 3, C&W, Sprint, AT&T, Worldcom, Qwest, Genuity

I just want to hear your opinion because I seem to get into this debate often. I to am sick of people using the term loosly.


Well, from what I can tell, there's only one left :(

Yes: Sprint
No: Level 3, C&W, AT&T, Worldcom, Qwest, Genuity

Again though, using "Tier1" as a measure of quality is dubious anyways. Sprint has a great network, but I've encountered some less than desirable practices from over there...

Those are not tier one providers? Where do they buy transit from?

Originally posted by ServeForce
Well, from what I can tell, there's only one left :(

Yes: Sprint
No: Level 3, C&W, AT&T, Worldcom, Qwest, Genuity

Again though, using "Tier1" as a measure of quality is dubious anyways. Sprint has a great network, but I've encountered some less than desirable practices from over there...

what the heck are you taking about? you are -really- confused.

Originally posted by sjs
what the heck are you taking about? you are -really- confused.

Talk to #nanog, not me :)

nanog, eggnog, *nog ... those are Tier1 providers, my friend, until you can show us what providers does WCOM (and the others) buy transit from.

Level3 own Genuity, hence why L3 will show up in the Genuity network :)

Level3 is a tier1 provider. They have their own international backbone in North America and Europe.

Actually, most providers including Sprint and UUNet purchase transit from someone else.

What about Verizon?

Originally posted by RackMy.com
Actually, most providers including Sprint and UUNet purchase transit from someone else.

I thought that the companies we named purchase transit on other networks. I think this is more of a technical deal to provide a better backbone. I could be wrong but is't most of the transit the Tier 1's purchase is between each other?

I see what ServeForce is saying and I might be nit picking at the defination. :D I don't think that you can do this anymore without looking to cut cost. Purchasing transit is a excellent way to cut cost a little. Don't you think that it might need to be changed slightly?

Verizon is not a Tier 1, I thought they were working with Genuity or someone like that to provide the backbone for their network?

I just did a search in google to see what I could find and I found this article BUT it is a bit old Nov, 5 of 01:

Network size and strength vary among ISPs, a range that can be broken down into Tier 1, 2, or 3 providers. While definitions are somewhat controversial, Tier 1 ISPs are those that have access to the global Internet Routing Table and don't buy network capacity from other providers. Examples include UUNet, Cable & Wireless (C&W), Sprint, Qwest, Genuity, and AT&T. The second tier generally has a smaller na- tional presence than a Tier 1 ISP and may lease part or all of its network from a Tier 1, such as America Online, Broadwing, and @home. A Tier 3 player is typically a regional provider with no national backbone (RCN, Verizon, Log On America, and so on).

http://www.commweb.com/article/NMG20011102S0006

Originally posted by existenz
I thought that the companies we named purchase transit on other networks.

[snipped]

http://www.commweb.com/article/NMG20011102S0006

Thank you! I knew someone had a real definition around here somewhere.

You hit the nail on the head.

The point I was trying to make was that Tier1 was a fairly elusive goal, and an expensive one at that. Any ISP that claims to be a Tier1, that hasn't been on the radar here for more than a few years, has no chance of actually being a Tier1 network.

My other point is that not being Tier1, doesn't mean that you have a bad network.

Originally posted by RackMy.com
Actually, most providers including Sprint and UUNet purchase transit from someone else.

you should refrain from posting.

Originally posted by sjs
you should refrain from posting.

Any particular reason for him to refrain from posting? Or was that just a random comment? :D

Once again another post that has nothing to do with technical or security issues and accomplishes nothing. How about we nitpick at the difference between megabits and megabytes per second... oh wait... that wouldn't accomplish anything either. Seriously, if you get all bent out of shape over people misusing the term tier 1 I think you have some deep rooted issues that you need to get resolved before you post again.