Hi everyone,

My name is Grant O'Neill and I'm developing a web site at the moment which is dedicated to hosting punk band web sites. As part of this, I would like to allow members to sign up and log into a personalised account, and upload / modify / delete files in their allocated space via http. There are several other tasks of varying complexity but this is the first order of business.

I need someone who is fairly knowledgeable with PHP and MySQL but not necessarily a guru. I cannot offer to pay you anything at the moment, but think of it as helping eachother out. Ideally this type of work would be suited to someone who is currently studying (or learning) PHP.

I need help developing a site; you need experience and a portfolio. We can help eachother out.

There are further things that need to be done in the future, but when the site is completed and profits are being made from the hosting service, I will pay you at that time.

The position is voluntary, but if and when the hosting site makes money, the position could become permanent.

There are a couple of other things to consider. Firstly, being a voluntary position, there are certain guidelines:

1) I will NOT expect you to devote all of your time to assisting me. You work when you have time as you are the one helping me.

2) There is no guarantee of further and/or paid work.

3) You will be given credit where due, and a prominent link to any other site you may have been involved with.

4) You will not play hockey in a business suit. (Negotiable) ;)

5) You are not legally obligated to complete any work, but I believe that unless there are extenuating circumstances, courtesy and keeping to a promise should play a part.

6) I will be honest and direct with my opinions on your work, just as you will be with me. This ensures we have an understanding of what eachother requires and do not get offended by criticism.

7) You will not be required to do any graphics or design work - it is purely PHP coding and MySQL management. I do have some limited skills in this area.

8) We work as a team for a single goal.

If this sounds like you, or you would like more information, please contact me via email:

webmaster@punkunited.com

Please include with your email your resume, references, links to previous work etc. Subject line: "PHP Application"

Thanks!

Woah, lots of replies!

ie None.

Is anyone interested? I know it sounds pretty lame to be working for nothing, but if you're serious about learning PHP then I can set you some challenges that will give you some direction. Please have a think about the idea! :)

Good luck, but it's not going to happen. If you really want something you HAVE to offer something else in return. Why work for free for a portfolio that will be outdated in 6 months? That just doesn't make sense. Furthermore, you're asking for a resume, references AND previous work for a job that doesn't pay anything? That's just silly, WHT has become one of the cheapest places to pick up programming/web design to the point that I don't even work here, but free is still too much for here.

I think you're totally wrong. I actually already know two people who do this very thing for me, and THEY volunteered. I didn't even ask but they're good people. If it was me, I'd be keen. Why did you even bother posting your comments? Sure it's a forum but what good does it do, particularly when you're not even right?

As for being "silly", the thing I'm offering is not tangible, but they would have a larger folio (as I said in the first post) and would be challenged and given real work to do as they try to learn. I'm glad you didn't apply because you obviously can't read.

(Sorry to be rude but I don't understand what your intentions were.)

As a programmer for 4 years I think I have a pretty good idea of how things work. My intentions were explaining that why would anyone go through the process of sending a resume, references and links to previous work for a job that doesn't pay? I am right, obviously, since you didn't get any responses on board with thousands of active members.
The point was, you have to give SOMETHING in return to do "challenging work" for free. If you need challanging work done, you'll need a professional that can get it done in a good time frame, securely and most importantly well written code.
Of course I didn't apply, when I do vollunteer it's for a good cause, which certainly doesn't include hosting for punk bands.

Again I have to question whether you can read. And no, you're still wrong. You said "it's not going to happen." That's where you're wrong because as I just told you, I HAVE had people do this before. So just because I haven't had a response in about 3 days on one forum doesn't mean I'm never ever going to have someone willing to help. Which I already do.

So really "not going to happen" was totally wrong. Boy I love being right. Must suck for you though!

As for being a programming for 4 years, that's you. That doesn't mean every single other programmer in the world feels the same. Plus, you've been one for four years. Do you think when you had no clue what you were doing, you didn't want some experience? And in return the chance for a job? I would have thought with the unemployment rates worldwide in all sorts of jobs, people would grab any chance at a job. But hey that's just me, and that's what I was asking, and what has worked for me before.

The reason someone would go through the process is because I figured that if I had a few people offer, I'd need to cull the list. Surely it's not too much to ask to email me a simple file or two or give me some links? If that's too hard then there's something wrong with you.

The "SOMETHING" I am offering in return is all outlined in my first and second messages so I'm not going to go through all that again. I even said it's not tangible; not everything has to be monetary to be worthwhile.

I said it was challenging because, like I said, this job would be for a student of PHP. Hence it's challenging, that's quite bloody obvious. I also said that the time frame was unimportant and that I wouldn't expect them to devote all their time to it. How much clearer could I have been about all of this?

Your final remark about not applying because hosting for punk bands isn't a "good cause" was cheap and begs the question, why did you bother writing anything at all if you weren't interested? No work for idiots?

P.S. You admit you volunteer. That makes you hypocritical about everything you said about people not working for money. Good work!

Wow I'm better than you. Shucks.

Yes I do volunteer, for the Red Cross, you know the big non-profit organization that helps people in a time of need? But I tell you, I wouldn't be volunteering for them, had they required an application, references and previous "helping the needy" work done. In the intrum, what you've done is made a fool of yourself and probably ending the already remote chance that anyone was going to apply for the job.
You can claim all the clarity in the world, however, you are still not going to get anyone to work for free, unless it's a legal non-profit organization, and even then you'd be hard pressed to get programming for free.
If you feel better about yourself by saying you're better then me, I have no problem with that, what ever helps you sleep at night. It's a sad situation when I was attempting to point out that requesting a targeted market for free help, not to mention an obviously gigantic workload, was asking for the world in a cup.
In any case, good luck with your venture :rolleyes:

How many times do I have to tell you???

I ALREADY HAVE PEOPLE WORKING FOR FREE!

Is that so hard to understand? Sheesh!

Okay, so you work for Red Cross. Wow. That actually is good of you but I don't see how there's much difference between you working because it's for the good of someone else, and someone working for their own good. It all boils down to the fact that you said noone would ever do that, and yet you do, regardless of your reasons.

Why have I made a fool of myself? All I did was completely shred every "argument" you made, and even showed your hypocrasy.

I do feel better about myself be saying I'm better than you. I feel that way because you come on here making a COMPLETELY useless comment in the first place, then have nothing to substantiate it, and when I repeatedly tell you otherwise, you STILL think noone would work for free. If you want proof I can give it to you, but I don't know if you'd understand. You don't seem to be able to comprehend anything else I've said.

You said it perfectly with "I was attempting to point out...". Attempting and failing. I still have to say that you're wrong and I can prove it so there's not really any coming back from that is there buddy boy?

So I reiterate: You're wrong and your comments have done nothing but give me something to find many a fault with.

Anyway forget it. You obviously don't understand my point so I'm going to let you shut up and piss off now. Worry about yourself.

Once again I'll spell it out "NO ONE IS GOING TO WORK FOR A PROFIT/COMMERCIAL COMPANY FOR FREE". No one on these boards obviously, and I mean no one is going to take on a project that large and get nothing but a mark in their portfolio for it. For portfolio work, it's usually half hour jobs that look nice. That's my point. You didn't shred any argument I made, you're not even making a good argument. My comment wasn't useless obviously, sense no one responded to your advertisement.
And to add-on, it's pretty pathetic, that you half to tell yourself your better then someone you don't even know to feel good. I'd recommend seeking a psychiatrist. Once again let me explain it to you: No one will take on a project that size for free. You can say I'm wrong because you have people working for free, but NO ONE RESPONDED TO YOUR AD. That should be the first clue that I'm right in this case.
I'm tired of arguing with a newbie 15 year old, it tires me because you can't even see the point I'm making, but I'm obviously right, otherwise you wouldn't be asking why nobody responded to your request. I'm done with your ridiculous comments anyways, but I do have one question: If you are so much "better" why do you need a free staff? Personally I pay mine.

Okay I can't let that go untouched.

Firstly, I'm 21. Secondly, you are an absolute moron. I have said countless times now that I DO have people working for me. I make profits. They work for free. So regardless of who responds to the ad, I'm already right and that won't change. I'm right because people DO work for free, and maybe I won't get a bite on this forum but I have other places I've advertised as well that have paid dividends. So, one more time: You're wrong. You were wrong before I posted, you were wrong after I posted, and you're still going to be wrong until the end of time. That clear?

So after telling you all these times, you still don't get it. That's what's really sad here.

I hardly think having an ego warrants seeing a psychiatrist. That's just stupid.

Your second paragraph was a rehash of your first, which I already explained was wrong.

I definitely see the point you're trying to make. It just doesn't make sense because I've given you the facts that prove that I'm right, and you're not.

I still don't get why you felt it was even necessary to reply. If you don't think it's gonna work, so what? Does that mean I should give up and go cry about it? Nope. So what was the point? It won't change what I do or the number of responses I get, or anything for that matter.

I need "free staff" because I work another job full time. It's kind of a bit hard to work 9 hours a day, juggle professional sports plus design web sites and graphics, get out and have fun and do everything else I want to do AS WELL AS learn programming. So for now while money's tight I'm doing what I can. Sorry I'm not in such an oh-so-glorious position as yourself, master. But patience is a virtue and after reading what you've said here, one could draw no other conclusion than I am more intelligent than you, at least in this small instance.

Anything else you want to say out of turn or that has no foundation or accuracy? There's only so much you can spit out of that kind I guess.

Your turn.

So in summing up, your comment WAS wrong, it WAS useless, and it WAS unnecessary.

And just to make it even more obvious that you're wrong, I've now had several offers. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. :)