:o eh, i was told to remove mine... but *shrug* i didn't really care too much except I didn't know my avatar was a business avatar...

but one thing i question myself about the new rule is... if our URLs (usually a link to our 'business site') are allowed as signature, why not business avatars?

IMHO, I think the "Homepage" part of our member profiles can be considered to be same as a business avatar and vice versa... just shows where/what we offer our services.

Avatars are supposed to reflect your personality, not your business ;)

hmm, i don't think it was anything personal...
i believe almost everyone who had a "business avatar" had been automatically removed as of June 1st

Originally posted by BC
Avatars are supposed to reflect your personality, not your business ;) I'm not disagreeing, and I don't really care one way or the other about the avatar issue, but I have to ask: couldn't the same be said about usernames? Yet business names as usernames are allowed, and business names in avatars are not...

It's easier to get rid of an Avatar than change a username. :(

Originally posted by JayC
I'm not disagreeing, and I don't really care one way or the other about the avatar issue, but I have to ask: couldn't the same be said about usernames? Yet business names as usernames are allowed, and business names in avatars are not...

Fair enough, it's a legitimate issue, but as Planet Z said, asking all hosts to change their names to something personal would be just too much (especially for the mods). Same with removing host URLs and info - now that is going too far.

The intended aim is : we wanna see the person first, business second :D

So.. can I do the opposite? can I change my name to Downtownhost.com? that is fair I think..
Is just a Question :D

I think company logo is ok.

It seems to take from the forum by removing business avatars, and i'm not saying that simply since there's practically none left.. The whole thing that seems to make this board unique is the level of professionalism to it. I think it's good for users to associate each other by their company. I don't really see the point in bringing it to a personal level, save that for the general discussions.

I 101% agree - I have said numerous times we should be allowed business avatars

Honestly, some of you sound like whiny children. "Mommy, why can't I use my logo as an avatar?"

This is a web hosting board. That means it's for people to find and discuss web hosts. It's also for web hosts to discusss issues (including hardware and software) and help each other.

Not allowing still another form of advertising (a business logo in place of an avatar) does not take anything away from this forum. The only thing it takes away from is the enjoyment of a few hosts to advertise more.

The ability to have avatars is a recent addition from the recent upgrade, so it's not as if it were a long standing feature that has been suddenly taken away. Some of you ignore the very definition of avatar, which gives its purpose, and makes the very term "business avatar" oxymoronic. There is no such thing as a business avatar.

There are almost always people who break the rules and push things to the limits. There are also those who feel the rules don't apply to them. We saw that with several hosts who were still using logos after June 1 and did not take advantage of the grace period.

The focus of this forum is discussion, not advertising. The rules serve to keep the focus there. the majority of us do not care to see some meaningless logo, color used in a signature, or anything to attract our attention to anything other than what you say.

I think most of us would prefer it be something other than whining, whether it be about 60x60 avatars, business logos, advertising banners as sigs, etc.

Originally posted by Duster
Honestly, some of you sound like whiny children. "Mommy, why can't I use my logo as an avatar?"

You expect people to accept new things without whining? Hello? Are we all Borg?


There is no such thing as a business avatar.
There is now. New words are created everyday.

Originally posted by Nicholas Brown
I 101% agree - I have said numerous times we should be allowed business avatars

I just think we should be allowed to use any avatars.... no labeling of avatar as being a business avatar or anything like that. Well, actually, use of any avatars that is not vulgar/offensive to anyone should be ok.

I think I remember Jag's avatar... wasn't it a marble-textured diamond with a single J embeded? thats a "business" avatar? how is that advertising? it's just show whoever see's his avatar where he belongs to... its same thing as a signature or the www button below almost everyone's posts. only thing is that an avatar can't be linked.

As mentioned before, usernames are supposed to be some kind of nickname that you use to identify yourself with on the board... no offense to those who use it but those Blah.com usernames... are those business usernames?

I think some of the avatars that were automatically removed made this board more special. Avatars are supposed to be an image representing a user in a community. Although I am not totally disagreeing with the rule, I think just as long as the avatar isn't strictly advertising (like BlahHost / Quality $4 Hosting!) or anything offensive, then it should be allowed to be used.

Couple cents outta my pocket :)

Hey guys! :D

First, I don't think anyone is being whiny, nor do I feel that we're continually adding insane rules. No, I'm not trying to make a big deal about either of these issues, just mentioning it.

Second, I've just redone the rules, attempting to make them clearer, though I've already found a few things I forgot to add, and a few things I'd like to killoff, but basically, I'm hoping it is clearer a bit. (Not sure I was successful, as my original aim was to cut out at least 50% of the wording and make it short but sweet. I think I accidently made it longer, heh).

Let's go about this another way...

Most of you already know the basic intent of the forum, so I won't go into that. What we'd like to do, is fine tune that grey line of advertising. Ok, chances are that everyone isn't going to agree with things, as that will never happen.

We're trying to avoid advertising where it shouldn't be. We give the 4 line sig. which is more than enough for a name, company name, URL, etc. We have two forums devoted to advertising. We don't restict user names, though I'd rather not see a compny URL as the username personally, and think we should.

So now we come to Avatars. Ok, well I don't know what the exact definition of one is, nor do I really care what someone else says it is. Doesn't really matter to me. I also think that when you have rules, you have to have clear rules and although I've redone them, this is one area I think is not clear. "What is a 'business' avatar?" - I don't think this is answered in the revised version (didn't really do much with that one).

Simply, I'd rather not see every post looking like a business card, with logo (or specially made one, not neccesarily the actual logo of the company), name, URL, etc. I realize that most of you are involved in the industry in some way, thus it is a major part of your life *but* is there another interest?

I'll also mention that I'm personally undecided on this issue, but I wouldn't mind seeing something else other than the compnay name, or letter used as an avatar. If you have any ideas of how to achieve the balance between having what you want and eliminating needless advertising from the forums, I'd like to hear them (and will do my best to implement them, disclaimer: but no guarrantees :D)

Well, I personally don't consider some of the avatars that were either asked to be removed or removed automatically an advertising. It's like a nametag...

The best scenario I can give is that WHT can be like a Web Hosting Expo... companies and people com together to discuss/question/answer stuff about web hosting... you know at expos they have company reps wearing a shirt (lol, but not like anyone else doesn't wear a shirt in an expo but you know what i mean)... like an IBM rep wearing a blue shirt with a small IBM logo on their collars or whatnot. I don't think thats actually advertising... the shirts just allow people to recognize you those people without actually looking textual evidence

Advertising would be a shirt where it uses big letters and says like:
IBM LAPTOPS! CHEAP! As LOW as $1,400!.

Similar, advertising using an avatar would be one of those that say like:
BLAHHOST.COM! High Quality Hosting! As LOW as $5/mo!

So why not disallow a specifically defined "Advertising" and offensive Avatars? - specifically: no URLs/domains, no description of what your business does, no prices, no vulgar/offensive images... i guess, there could be some conflicts to how this can be interpreted, but advertising avatars can be identified pretty easily...

I think this is ridiculous too, why so many rules? People are going to get fed up with things like this.

I come to this forum because its related to my business.

I say scrap all the rules, keep it plain and simple......

RULE: use common sense

thats all there is to it.

Originally posted by ckirby
RULE: use common sense


problem is... many lack this in an online community :(

Originally posted by ckirby
I say scrap all the rules, keep it plain and simple......

RULE: use common sense

thats all there is to it.

That won't work for two reasons.

1. Common sense is the most uncommon of all the senses.

2. There are invariably people who feel they can do anything, even in bad taste, so long as there are no rules against it. They need hard rules to define their limits.

Why are you so bothered? I mean, if you believe avatars are not a form of advertising then why are you making such a fuss? do these avatar do something to the value of your post whether you have them or not?. If they are not a form of advertising/promotion (as you say) then why have these business related avatars in place of a normal avatar. Its a small rule easy to follow, hard to break and the majority of forum members agree. I believe a lot of hosts do receive a lot of traffic and signups referred from WHT, it may be their incentive for posting useful replies (fair enough), but decorating the post with your logo and flashy signature is too much. I'm not going to throw bandwidth at providing business avatar (however small it is) and make visitors wait 0.x secs longer for some pointless biz avatar. We're not here for your profit (where's our incentive?), if you want to post you can don't expect X refers. Like I've said in past discussion there are hundreds of web hosting directories where you can purchase advertising on, although be in for shock *its not free* and yet again *you can't dictate the operation of the site* even commercial sites will strike a balance between visitor pleasure and advertiser satisfaction.

I notice the majority of those complaining are those that have had their avatars (of business nature) removed for violation of the rules. And yes you were warned, the no business-avatars have been in the forum-rules for more than two weeks and annoucements regarding the new rules were posted and even debated in various polls, on top of that they were discussed many times in the general forum. As a reader I'd rather read through a thread with interesting avatar rather than pointless biz avatars (what do they serve if not ads, just confusing).

Having business avatars left-right-and-center promotes the use of your forum as a commercial rather than
an informational resourse.

You give what you get. Post to help other and I'm sure you learn a great deal back.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.... but... :mad:

btw, I refer to the so called "business avatars" as pointless since you seem to think they're not advertising or promotion which makes me question why you would want a 'J','H','nx' or whatever. In my opinion they are a form of advertising/promotion however indirect, I'm sure people learn to associate the business avatar with your company and the more they see the more confidence is inspired in your services etc... anyways you get the idea, I will ask a friend doing a degree in psychology for more info on this.

Umm who cares,

why waste time complaining about it, dont you guys run business's, if your so concerned about your lack of ability to advertise through the use of avatars then why not spend your time advertising in other forms instead of wasting it complaining about something that you cant change.

I think the very fact that this thread was started to complain about a small picture which I myself dont notice as it is, is silly.

Matt doesnt allow banner ads which is outstanding of him, he could be making tons and tons of money off of banner ads here but he chooses to continue to make this forum a high quality environment by not instilling ad after ad all over the place.
So why complain about him asking you not to advertise in inapporpraite places. If he has to spend his time running this forum and not making a penny, I dont think its that out of the ordinary to ask you to adhere to special evern out of the ordinary advertising guidelines.

BOY im going to make lots of enemys with this post, but its how i feel.... Nothing againsta nyone..

let me reiterate my posts made...
I really do not care about the business avatars, i say we just remove all the avatars since they are waste of resources anyways and as Matt said they do not do to supplment "the value of your post whether you have them or not".

Second of all, I was just presenting a case started by this thread. I've said what I wanted to see because frankly this is what "General Conversations" can be... debating one issue then another.. then adding some humor later, then some firey fumes later on, then get back together and have a ball. :cool:

I just can't believe you guys call this complaining... everyone who seems to present their negative opinions about this new rule seemed to be called complaining or whining... but how about those who support the new rule? aren't you guys complaining about the complaints? Complaints are always coming and going, wherever you are... there is really no way to help complains except to listen/read and present your opinions.

Lastly, I gave my opinion because one of the mods posted that it would be swell (lol, i haven't used swell in long time) if someone posted some ideas on how we may be able to achieve a balance but I guess that won't be happening anytime soon.

I guess this is my final say... and this has been an interesting debate. :D and realize how stupid this whole avatar thing is... ahhhhhhhhh, lets just remove all avatars and save some bandwidth and resources! lol :angel:

ok then let's disable avatar and signature. it is the best solution I think?

Originally posted by Jag
I agree here, no body was labled as whining until ole duster added his post. Its good to see people don't get the purpose behind the post. I was stating the new rules just pop up over and over.
What you said was "I think this is just getting ridiculous now !"

No one was insulted. The rules were set, in place, and some people are still going on about not being able to advertise more. I call that whining.

What builds a sense of community is people being able to express themselves without insulting others. Little snide remarks like "So cbaker and duster thanks for not taking the time to get the point of the thread and come right out with the insults. That helps build a sense of community alright ... geez ." are what don't contribute to that feeling of community.

Gouda or cheddar? :D

Ya sure, ok duster...

your perfect, your post was flawless , everyone else is wrong always. Whatever!

I'm done!!!

Limburger then! How appropriate! :D

Limburger, me confused, please explain :)

Originally posted by cbaker17
Limburger, me confused, please explain :)

It's a really, really smelly cheese...

-t

Limburger is an especially smelly cheese. The thrust of the last line really means: "What sort of cheese would you like with your w(h)ine?".

Matt, as the owner of the forum, has explained things very nicely. The rules were announced before they went into place. BC answered questions about the new rules before they went into place. The short answer to all of this is that Matt, ultimately, makes the rules for this forum. That the owner and mods even bothered to a) warn everyone that the new rules are coming and b) even bothered to listen to anyone regarding the new rules speaks volumes about them and their willingness to at least allow some input by the user base of this forum.

Personally, I think the new rules are fine. Makes this place look less like a stretch of highway with billboards every ten feet...

Not everyone may like it, I liked color in my sig, but when it comes down to it ask these questions.

[list=1]
Are your post affected at all?
Can you still get the same information?
Are post deleated?
Is your life affected?
[/list=1]

Hopefully the answer to those questions is No! I liked my color sig but I'm not affected by just having it be black!!

Just have fun on this board and follow the rules, they're simple and not too demanding!!:)

Ahem Duster,
weren't you the one whining in the begining about business avatars + logos??? ehh.... and i think business avatars should be ALLOWED!
Originally posted by Duster
Honestly, some of you sound like whiny children. "Mommy, why can't I use my logo as an avatar?"

This is a web hosting board. That means it's for people to find and discuss web hosts. It's also for web hosts to discusss issues (including hardware and software) and help each other.

Not allowing still another form of advertising (a business logo in place of an avatar) does not take anything away from this forum. The only thing it takes away from is the enjoyment of a few hosts to advertise more.

The ability to have avatars is a recent addition from the recent upgrade, so it's not as if it were a long standing feature that has been suddenly taken away. Some of you ignore the very definition of avatar, which gives its purpose, and makes the very term "business avatar" oxymoronic. There is no such thing as a business avatar.

There are almost always people who break the rules and push things to the limits. There are also those who feel the rules don't apply to them. We saw that with several hosts who were still using logos after June 1 and did not take advantage of the grace period.

The focus of this forum is discussion, not advertising. The rules serve to keep the focus there. the majority of us do not care to see some meaningless logo, color used in a signature, or anything to attract our attention to anything other than what you say.

I think most of us would prefer it be something other than whining, whether it be about 60x60 avatars, business logos, advertising banners as sigs, etc.

Originally posted by Hostexp
Ahem Duster,
weren't you the one whining in the begining about business avatars + logos???

No. Unlike some others, I was not complaining about the rules, especially after they were in place and firm. Does that clear it up for you?

Don't think so you said, that webhost's were going overboard, take a look here http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=10819&highlight=avatars
Originally posted by Duster


No. Unlike some others, I was not complaining about the rules, especially after they were in place and firm. Does that clear it up for you?

My avatar used to be a star (it is part of my logo) and I removed it today after reading this thread (I'd totally forgotten to remove it before *tisk*tisk*).. :o

Never added a signature to my posts, not even a link to my site. I come here to help when I can or get help when I need it. Advertising can be done somewhere else. But my star, well I liked it. It showed people who I am kind of.. I love color and well my star was all colorful :( I miss it already. I guess I can just stick with littering all my posts with the colorful smilies! :stickout because part of my personality is that I am a colorful person (all the art I create has soo much color in it), and usually I can't stand to have everything be so darn colorless (like this board.. just dull colors.. text.. ahh so boring and emotionless).

For myself, I can't have an avatar. The rules state that you cannot have a "business avatar" but my business, aside from hosting, is design. Graphics, webpages, paintings, clothing... I've done it all. But since I also design graphics (usually small ones that look like these 50x50 avatars, I can't have one). :bawling:

Bottom line, I love the avatars here, keeps me stimulated... LOL so don't get rid of them all together please. Hosts, come on.. you want me to make you a dorky little avatar? Just ask and I can pull something together quick, like umm. a fish, cat, bird or something :rolleyes: at least I can see other people bring color to the board when I am not allowed to personally. :D

End of my little rant here.. woowa, got a little long. 4 am.. need... sleep.. but.. must get.. back to work :eek: <-- oh I love that smilie.. ;)

Originally posted by Elena
For myself, I can't have an avatar. The rules state that you cannot have a "business avatar" but my business, aside from hosting, is design. Graphics, webpages, paintings, clothing... I've done it all. But since I also design graphics (usually small ones that look like these 50x50 avatars, I can't have one).

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
Poor Elena :(

I don't want to get into attacks, but Hostexp Duster was not whining/complaining - he was just wanting to have a good time and get people to follow the rules!

Oh, BTW, he never said the rules should be changed (that I know of....) he was just supporting the rules that the mods made.

Guys, please, just have fun on here, get a fun little image for an avatar!! We can go to your webby in your signiture or the www button, etc.

Elena: That rule means you can't have a business logo, but you can have a piece of art that you created (i'm pretty sure) talk to a mod! I like your colorful posts!!

If you're not sure about an avatar, send me a copy and I'll personally OK it or suggest a different one.

How's this one? :) It's a bit hard for decision making at all here. One one side you have the personalization of the boards where it's host becomes person and talks. However you still have the side where the host has to stay professional through out it. I don't see the problem myself with business avatars, however I don't run this board and as has been said many times before, you can't make everyone happy. I think if someone has an avatar with minature price plans flowing through it, or flashing "click, buy, now!" stuff, that's taking it a bit far. But a logo without anything else isn't much of advertising. Maybe a rule that says you must make your own avatar (no getting someone else to make'em!). Since that's not going to happen however, the rules are the rules and we're here to help and comment.

"Don't go chasing waterfalls, please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to..."