I have a little design ethics/legal question. I'm wondering if it is illegal to sell site designs and use MS FrontPage Templates. I don't think it is (right to do), but I'm wondering if anyone knows if it is legally allowed.

I was thinking about Ann Landers, but........




If this is confusing, i can clarify on confusing points

Isn't that what the templates are meant for? (To design pages?) Ostensibly, most of these pages would be used for commercial purposes.

I ain't no Ann Landers... but in this case, I don't think it would be wrong -- since the Frontpage is meant to be a webdesiging tool.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this...
Are you talking about creating custom templates and selling them, or trying to start a "web design" company and use the free templates Microsoft provided?

I don't see anything wrong with the first option, and I'm not sure the 2nd one would be illegal... but it definitely would be wrong.

Brian

Originally posted by Dogma
I have a little design ethics/legal question. I'm wondering if it is illegal to sell site designs and use MS FrontPage Templates. I don't think it is (right to do), but I'm wondering if anyone knows if it is legally allowed.

I was thinking about Ann Landers, but........

If this is confusing, i can clarify on confusing points




What does the license agreement for MS Front Page say about using the templates?


(if it's a typical MS license agreement, they'll probably claim ownership of your company ;) )

I'm not sure, looked for 45 mins :(

Anywho. What i was attempting to ask was:

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Lets say that I run a web design company. I say: "Let me design your page"

The client agrees. I open up frontpage, load the construction theme (becuase client is a construction co.) and just type in info that i get.
========

Can I charge for the design for that site?!?!

I do not/am not thinking of that, but I am just wondering.

In part of their legal notice stated; "Unauthorized reproduction ot distribution of this program, or portion of it, may result in severe civil and criminal penalties, ..." and what i thing was that those free template that's included also refer as a portion of the program.. so i guess.. they probably won't be so generous.

Godaddy.com is selling a template CD which require to pay a fees whenever a template was customised and uploaded..

Thats what I though. Thanks for this.

Originally posted by Dogma

========
Lets say that I run a web design company. I say: "Let me design your page"

The client agrees. I open up frontpage, load the construction theme (becuase client is a construction co.) and just type in info that i get.
========

Can I charge for the design for that site?!?!


A lot of web designers do just that. I have been using NetObjects Fusion (which many people seem to hate, but I have had good results with it over the past 4 years), and it comes with a variety of templates (called site styles), and I've recognized a lot of them on sites out there that were created by web designers. But that's what they are there for.

There are other site styles available for purchase or download from a variety of sources, intended for the use of designers. Or you can create your own, and all it takes is a relatively small handful of graphics to do it.

To be ethical, ask the customer, do you want a custom site design, or would you prefer to go the less-expensive route and use a standard template?

I'd think you have to check the license agreement of the templates themselves (if any), but other than that you asked, "Can I charge for the design for that site?!?!"

Yes, you spent your time, even if it was 5 minutes and you can charge for that.

I know, you're really asking if you can use the templates as the basis of your commercial designs and I don't have the answer to that one. Interesting question though.

Yes Chicken. Lets say that IBM wanted a new design and all they needed was a template. If they some how asked me to do it and booted up frontpage and wrote their name into the header and charged them for the design, what would Microsoft do?

Ahh, lets make it interesting, lets say the US Justice Dept. Site :D

I just want to make a point. I don't do this nor would I do this.

I know someone who made a tape (as in music tape) where he used some modified clipart images from PowerPoint on the cover. It wasn't widely sold, but he rang Microsoft (Australia) to ask if it was OK, and they said it was - so I'd be thinking a similar thing would work for FrontPage templates.

But your best bet would be to call Microsoft (I would assume they have a hotline or something? I'm not sure).

Originally posted by Lawrence
But your best bet would be to call Microsoft (I would assume they have a hotline or something? I'm not sure).



Suuuuuuuure, if you want to go through 7 different phone menus and 20 mins of waiting time before you get a live person on the phone (who doesn't even know what they're talking about!)..

I wouldn't imagine there's any legal problem with it, it's pretty much the point of a template -- to make a bunch of "copies" of it.

Of course, there's an esthetic problem with using those lame Front Page templates, and perhaps an ethical problem if you tell your clients you're "designing" a site for them. :)

Seriously, I know of one incident (this is one of those "friend-of-a-friend" stories) where a company was charged a significant amount of money for site design and production, and what was delivered was built on a Front Page template. They considered that to be misrepresentation of the services they were sold (once they found about it; found out that there may be thousands of identical sites built off the same template by anyone who buys Front Page). After legal threats being exchanged, they settled on paying a much smaller amount of money and hiring someone else to redesign the site and take over the maintenance contract.

Originally posted by BC
Suuuuuuuure, if you want to go through 7 different phone menus and 20 mins of waiting time before you get a live person on the phone (who doesn't even know what they're talking about!)..

Maybe you could post them a letter then? It'll only take a month that way. :D

It's always best to check. While it's true that templates are for the creation of web sites, many templates are made strictly for personal sites and are not intended for commercial use.

Originally posted by BC
Suuuuuuuure, if you want to go through 7 different phone menus and 20 mins of waiting time before you get a live person on the phone (who doesn't even know what they're talking about!)..

What, it only takes you 20 minutes!!! Lucky!!!

I wait for 1-2 hours!!!!