first off, im not trying to debate anything here. Im not representing anything, i was just kind of startled when i read this AP (associated press) article .

SEOUL, South Korea (March 2) - North Korea warned Sunday of "nuclear disasters'' around the world if Washington attacks the communist state, while its civilian leaders urged greater cooperation between Pyongyang and Seoul to ease the crisis on the Korean Peninsula.

The North's official Rodong Sinmun newspaper accused the Central Intelligence Agency of preparing a surprise attack on the nation's nuclear facilities that are suspected of being used to make atomic bombs.

"If the U.S. imperialists ignite a war on the Korean Peninsula, the war will turn into a nuclear war,'' Rodong said. "As a consequence, the Koreans in the north and south and the people in Asia and the rest of the world will suffer horrifying nuclear disasters.''

The report, carried by the North's state-run KCNA news agency, claimed that Washington put its forces around the peninsula on "semi-war footing'' and "is pushing ahead with nuclear war preparations in full swing.''

Pyongyang accuses Washington of inciting the nuclear standoff as a pretext for an invasion. Washington has repeatedly said it has no plans to attack North Korea, but stresses that "all options are on the table.''

In Seoul on Sunday, North Korea's religious and civic leaders took part in inter-Korean religious masses and urged greater cooperation between the two Koreas.

"Preventing war through national cooperation is the most urgent task of the nation,'' said Ri Mun Hwan, a senior North Korean delegate. "If war breaks out, the South cannot be safe and the entire nation will face disaster.''

Another delegate, Oh Kyung Woo, said the "United States is threatening a nuclear war, but if war breaks out both South and North will incur damages,'' according to South Korea's national Yonhap news agency.

"Foreign forces will never give us reunification. We must cooperate with each other,'' Oh was quoted as saying.

The comments were made during religious masses at a cathedral, a church, a Buddhist temple and other religious locations, which were attended by thousands of South Koreans.

The ceremonies were a part of an inter-Korean festival to mark the anniversary of a major independence uprising against Japanese colonial rule on March 1, 1919.

Pyongyang sent 105 delegates to Seoul on Saturday for the three-day festival. Both Koreas mark the uprising as a major holiday. Japan ruled the peninsula from 1910 to 1945.

Rodong, monitored by South Korea's national Yonhap news agency, reiterated that the North's nuclear activities were "strictly for peaceful purposes and poses no threat to anyone.''

"Crushing the U.S. plot to attack North Korea is a very important issue related to peace and safety of Asia and the world, the existence and future of mankind,'' Rodong said.

Raising tensions last week, North Korea test-fired a missile into the sea off its east coast. Pyongyang also reactivated a 5-megawatt reactor that could produce plutonium for nuclear weapons, U.S. and South Korean officials said.

On Saturday, North Korea said nuclear war could break out on the peninsula at "any moment,'' after South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun warned of a "calamity'' unless the standoff is resolved peacefully and quickly.

The dispute flared in October when Washington said North Korea had admitted pursuing a nuclear program, which violated a 1994 pact.

Washington and its allies cut off oil shipments to the impoverished communist state. The North responded by saying it would reactivate its frozen facilities. It also expelled U.N. monitors and withdrew from the global Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

03/02/03 18:56 EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

I think Kim Jong II has Iraq and North Korea Confused, we're planning to attack the former. Either that or he just wants attention.

Its called equal rights. Every country has the right to be bombed.

North Korea warned Sunday of "nuclear disasters'' around the world

That's something i'd take seriously if I were Georgie..

N Korea is known to have been selling/buy weapons, there's a high chance that nuclear warheads could have been exchanged and placed in countries allied with north korea

No, Bush won't pay attention to anything if the dictator's name isn't Saddam.

NK do have WMD and a probable small nuclear capacity. - but NK are doing a heck of a lot of posturing. They're not quite sure about how to play the diplomatic game so they're going for shock tactics.

There's a strange political game going on in SE Asia at the moment. If it were actually a serious situation then China would get involved to reign in the North Koreans. You shouldn't worry too much: unless NK actually bites back at China. Then we'd have a rogue nuclear state...

North Korea's nuclear weapon stockpile is neglible in size. I'd be more worried about China.

what's that quote....

"It's not the man with a 100 nukes you should be worried about, it's the crazed, threatening man with just one.."

...or something like that..

And people wondered why the U.S. led the fight so many years against the evil that is communism.

Anyways, North Korea will likely mess up South Korea, but I seriously doubt their capability to fight the U.S.

Originally posted by MDJ2000
Anyways, North Korea will likely mess up South Korea, but I seriously doubt their capability to fight the U.S.

Iraq also.

Originally posted by MCHost-Marc
Its called equal rights. Every country has the right to be bombed.
Getting a tad political aren't we Marc? :D

Originally posted by Archbob
I think Kim Jong II has Iraq and North Korea Confused, we're planning to attack the former. Either that or he just wants attention.
IMO, the bloke just doesn't look like he's playing with a full deck. :eek2:

North Korea Warns of 'Disasters'

Well North Korea is already a Disaster area so they must want company. Kim Jong II is what Saddam will become in a year or two, a screaming child holding a few nukes that wants attention. Why does North Korea want to talk to the U.S.? Isn't this a U.N. issue. South Korea also needs to decide what they want to do sooner or later, be invaded by the north or keep U.S. troops in their country. If South Korea wants a UNITED Korea above all else, I am sure the north will oblige them as soon as we pull out.

I really believe we (U.S.) should pull out of all the countries that don't want us, South Korea, Germany, Japan, etc, etc....

We (U.S. citizens) have paid too long to keep other countries safe, yes even countries without oil. I for one am sick and tired of all of the anti-American rhetoric from the children and grandchildren of people the U.S. has saved and protected for years!

Its all about the oil isn't it? The free world doesn't really matter....

Archbob, with each post it seems you take ignorance to a new level. If you dislike Bush, at least have the sense to bury your true beliefs in a plausible scenario. Hiding your hatred of Bush behind hare brained rhetoric only makes you look silly.

:angry:

I think this whole war thing sucks pond water,i really do!!!

Now we have threats of nuclear stuff????? This is just GGRREEAATT!!! :angry:

The Dude :angry: :angry: :angry:

Originally posted by MDJ2000
Archbob, with each post it seems you take ignorance to a new level. If you dislike Bush, at least have the sense to bury your true beliefs in a plausible scenario. Hiding your hatred of Bush behind hare brained rhetoric only makes you look silly.

Well I put him on my ignore list. His extreme leftism clouds the picture of reality.

Originally posted by The Dude_
:angry:

I think this whole war thing sucks pond water,i really do!!!

Now we have threats of nuclear stuff????? This is just GGRREEAATT!!! :angry:

The Dude :angry: :angry: :angry:
Well sticking you head in the sand is not going to help! The best way to avoid WAR is through strength, history is clear on that.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Getting a tad political aren't we Marc? :D

I just believe every country should have equal rights, nothing more, nothing less.

Bomb them and let Allah sort them out

Originally posted by sitekeeper

We (U.S. citizens) have paid too long to keep other countries safe, yes even countries without oil. I for one am sick and tired of all of the anti-American rhetoric from the children and grandchildren of people the U.S. has saved and protected for years!

Yes and everyone else is tired of the rhetoric that anyone who criticises America is anti-US. I don't think China has a particularly great record when it comes to human rights is that just anti-China rhetoric, I think some of the acts committed by the Britsh Empire were shameful, is that more anti-British rhetoric despite the fact I am British?

The US have done some decent things over time Bosnia or Kuwait for example, but it's done more harm to the world than any other democratic country with the possible exception of Britain.

- Was removing the democratic government of Chile and putting a sadistic dictator like Pinochet in power for the benefit of the people of Chile?

- Was being virtually the only western country not to sign up to the land mine treaty an example of US morales?

- Is the continued embargo of Cuba justified or the continued breaking of the UN resolution that states the embargo is illeagal, the right thing to do?

- How about the IMF/WTO US led policies that just worsen the poverty of poorer countries in the world so big business can get access to resources and markets.

- What about the double standards over Israel, a country that shoots children in the street, blocks aid workers, threatens journalists and which get's more US aid than any other country.

And yet people wonder why the rest of the world and many Americans are suspect over the US desire for war with Iraq.:rolleyes:

How do you know? You don't see them shooting children in the streets on TV. I'm sure its happened before but most of that is BS.

Powerful nations cause envy in weaker nations...
envy creates jealousy...
jealousy creates hate...
hate leads to ignorance...

Its the way its always been.

If anyone one nation were as powerful as the U.S. then that country would throw is weight around just as much if not more. Thank god its not a country like North Korea.

Here we go again... :rolleyes: Bagpuss is at his usual ranting...

I agree that if any country was as powerful as the US it would throw its weight around. However, that is not an excuse for us to stick out news in other people's Business.


Its like saying "if other people are as strong as me, they'd beat people up too, so therefore I have the right to beat people up".


And based on sitekeepers last comment about oil in that post, I think my last post was appropriate. Giancarlo just couldn't refute me anymore in that other thread because all the facts of history were against him so he just put me on his ignore list because he couldn't prove he was right and we all know he just refuses to be wrong. Everytime he hears someone saying something that doesn't agree with his ideal of ultra-conservatism he writes it off as "hogwash" or "ranting".

I'm glad the US is the most powerful country in the world right now, but I do not agree with some of the things its doing. It, like all members of the UN, should have to follow UN rules and not go to war if the UN votes war down. I will support the war if it has UN backing, but as it is right now, we do not have the right to make war on Iraq.

nice attitude gian.... just because you dont agree with someone doesnt mean you have to troll MY thread. I enjoy hearing everyones input...its good to hear different ideas and thoughts. Dont think for 2 seconds anyone here agrees with you on anything. I wish we could just keep this lounge friendly and discuss things without jumping on others peoples backs. I seriously think the mods should make a new rules in the lounge that says "if you have nothing nice to say, or anything to add to the post, then keep your pie hole shut".

On to the topic, these people are threatening the US outright, not to mention other countries. I find nothing funny about possible nuclear disasters, if anything i say a war with korea is far more important then saddam. Then again, Korea is saying "leave us the F#$k alone and we'll do the same"

time to move

We (U.S. citizens) have paid too long to keep other countries safe, yes even countries without oil. I for one am sick and tired of all of the anti-American rhetoric from the children and grandchildren of people the U.S. has saved and protected for years!


I don't see why my statement about oil and the free world doesn't matter is irrelevant after a statement like that.

Well, see N. Korea is much better armed than Iraq, if we go to war, we will suffer many casualties, thats why Bush is hesitating to attack Korea. Korea may be the bigger threat(and I believe it is), but the cost for the war would be too great for the price in the current administration's view. We also don't want to provoke Korea into launching nukes so we appease them. The fact that we are attacking Iraq pretty much means that we're not afraid of their nukes, which most likely means they don't have any.

We're just picking on the easier of the two targets, its simple logic. Its what almost president would do in office if they had to choose between the 2 wars.

ill second that notion archbob...its obvious that america is going after the weaker of the 2, The article i will post below is obvious that america (bush administration) wants war with iraq regardless of what they do....

BAGHDAD, Iraq (March 3) - Iraq crushed missiles, sliced casting chambers, unearthed bombs and sent scientists to talk with U.N. weapons inspectors Monday, all in a desperate effort to prove it is disarming before a crucial U.N. report at the end of the week.

France, Russia and China urged Iraq to meet every U.N. demand in hopes of staving off war, but the United States - which might wage war even without U.N. authorization - said the actions were too little, too late.

''Iraq is not cooperating,'' White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Monday. ''Despite whatever limited head-fakes Iraq has engaged in, they continue to fundamentally not disarm.''.

U.S. officials said a vote on a new U.N. resolution authorizing force would likely come next week, after chief weapons inspectors Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei address the Security Council on Friday.

The U.S.-led military mobilization entered a critical stage Monday, with B-52 bombers landing in Britain and soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division setting up camp in Kuwait.

But the Turkish government showed no signs Monday that it would quickly ask parliament to reverse its refusal to allow in more than 60,000 U.S. troops ahead of an Iraq war. Washington's hopes for a Turkish-based northern front were dealt a blow when the parliament narrowly rejected a motion to grant the U.S. request.

Defense officials and analysts say American troops could seize Baghdad without a northern front, but at higher risk and with more difficulty.

As U.S. generals commanding about 225,000 troops in the region declare themselves ready to attack Iraq, weapons inspectors are suddenly receiving Iraqi cooperation on a swarm of issues that have dogged them for months.

Iraq met a Saturday deadline to begin destroying its Al Samoud 2 missile system, banned because its range may be slightly greater than allowed. It is slicing up banned casting chambers used to make another missile, the Al Fatah.

Workers have unearthed buried bombs they say are loaded with anthrax, aflatoxin and botulin toxin, and inspectors are analyzing the contents. Iraq is readying a letter to the United Nations that proposes verifying it has gotten rid of anthrax and deadly VX nerve agent.

Even Iraqi scientists who helped make missiles and chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction have begun to give private interviews to inspectors, something all but three had refused to do since December. Another scientist was interviewed on Monday, the fourth in as many days. The United Nations has asked to speak to more than 30 scientists since December.

Clearly Iraq is appealing to members of the U.N. Security Council, who are considering a draft resolution by the United States, Britain and Spain that would declare Iraq to be evading inspections, a step that would likely lead to war.

''The best time to press a point is when you have a meeting of the Security Council coming up,'' said Blix's deputy, Demetrius Perricos.

The United States expects a vote on its resolution ''quite soon'' after the chief inspectors report to the council on Friday, U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte said Monday.

''All indications are that the vote would be next week,'' a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

France, Russia and China - three of the five veto-holding members of the council - all pushed for more inspections instead of war.

''But Iraq must cooperate more, more actively,'' French President Jacques Chirac said Monday in Algeria. ''Together and in peace, we must keep strong pressure on it to attain the objective we have set: the elimination of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.''

But the new cooperation appears to be having little influence on the audience that in the end will mean the most - the White House.

After months of stressing disarmament, President Bush now speaks more frequently of ''regime change,'' saying that for Iraq to avoid war, Saddam Hussein will have to go - something few Iraqis can even imagine.

In a sense, the war has already begun. U.S. warplanes enforcing no fly zones in northern and southern Iraq have become much more aggressive in recent days, and have begun to go beyond their traditional targets of anti-aircraft weapons.

Now, they are now attacking surface-to-surface missile batteries they say are in range of U.S. troops in Kuwait or of positions U.S. troops could take up in Turkey - although the stated purpose of the no fly zones is to protect Shiite Muslims in the south and Kurds in the north.

An Iraqi military spokesman told the official Iraqi News Agency on Monday that a U.S. airstrike Sunday night killed six civilians and wounded 15 in southern Basra province. There was no way to verify the claim.

American warplanes attacked four more military communications facilities and one air defense facility on Monday, the U.S. Central Command said.

Iraq warned Sunday night that it could stop destroying its missiles if the United States decides to go to war without U.N. authorization.

''If it turns out at an early stage during this month that America is not going to a legal way, then why should we continue?'' asked Lt. Gen. Amer al-Saadi, Saddam's scientific adviser.

At the sprawling al-Taji military camp, 20 miles north of Baghdad, workers used bulldozers to crush six Al Samoud 2 missiles, inspectors' spokesman Hiro Ueki said. U.N. inspectors in blue baseball caps supervised the destruction.

Workers also destroyed two empty warheads made for the Al Samoud 2. Warheads for the crushed missiles - which were already armed - were removed for destruction later at another site because of the potential danger.

The workers destroyed four missiles on Saturday and six more Sunday, meaning that in three days, Iraq has crushed 16 of its 100-odd missiles. The United Nations says it expects Iraq to pick up the pace in the coming days.

At the Al Rasheed Company, 40 miles southwest of Baghdad, fountains of sparks rose as workers in welding helmets cut into refrigerator-sized sections of cylindrical casting chambers used to make the engines of the Al Fatah missile. Cement mixers drove up to the plant to dump their cargo into the chambers and render them useless.

Weapons inspectors ordered the casting chambers destroyed in the 1990s, but after they left in 1998, Iraq rebuilt them. This time, Perricos said, ''we are destroying them in a way that they cannot be rebuilt.''

AP-NY-03-03-03 2110EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

what i put in the red really scares me because its obvious that iraq is trying to cooperate and for some reason the bush administration wants nothing more then to slaughter a bunch of people.....

Originally posted by sitekeeper
North Korea Warns of 'Disasters'
U.S. citizens) have paid too long to keep other countries safe, yes even countries without oil. I for one am sick and tired of all of the anti-American rhetoric from the children and grandchildren of people the U.S. has saved and protected for years!


:agree: I'm sick of that stuff...

If I were Iraq I would not destroy the weapons to quickly, that would leave me with nothing to defend myself if the U.S. does invade.

They were told to deystroy them by the UN a long time ago and they REFUSED. That alone is proof of lack of cooperation. That is what is meant by too little too late. The US and the UN made it clear FULL and SPEEDY compliance was required.

Bush does have a big mouth and doesn't know when to keep it shut running off like a cowboy, but at the same time he knows what he needs to do to disarm Iraq. The UN has proven itself useless at disarming Iraq in the past and aparently it is now.

As soon as this Iraq thing is taken care of you will see Bush become more agressive twoards N. K.. Its not logical to fight 3 wars at the same time. That is why you see N. K. admiting it has nukes now of all times to apply pressure to the US while it has focus on Iraq. They are trying to make the US look bad in otherwords.

Originally posted by Radix
How do you know? You don't see them shooting children in the streets on TV. I'm sure its happened before but most of that is BS.


Yes you do, the BBC have shown footage of Israeli troops shooting kids a couple of times and of shooting unarmed civililians throwing rocks many times.

Originally posted by Radix

Powerful nations cause envy in weaker nations...
envy creates jealousy...
jealousy creates hate...
hate leads to ignorance...


The hatred of the west and the US in particular that exists in many poorer areas of the world stems from the rich and powerful nations abusing that power to their own ends.

Originally posted by Radix

If anyone one nation were as powerful as the U.S. then that country would throw is weight around just as much if not more. Thank god its not a country like North Korea.

To a certain extent I agree many countries like Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Syria etc would behave in a far worse way than the US does if they were in the US position, however a fair few such as Denmark, Sweden, Canada, Switzerland etc would behave a damn site better.

Originally posted by Giancarlo Here we go again... Bagpuss is at his usual ranting...

They are called facts, something which appears to be a foriegn concept to you Giancarlo.

You speak with facts?

I would say just opinion pal...

Originally posted by bagpuss


The US have done some decent things over time Bosnia or Kuwait for example, but it's done more harm to the world than any other democratic country with the possible exception of Britain.

- Was removing the democratic government of Chile and putting a sadistic dictator like Pinochet in power for the benefit of the people of Chile?

- Was being virtually the only western country not to sign up to the land mine treaty an example of US morales?

- Is the continued embargo of Cuba justified or the continued breaking of the UN resolution that states the embargo is illeagal, the right thing to do?

- How about the IMF/WTO US led policies that just worsen the poverty of poorer countries in the world so big business can get access to resources and markets.

- What about the double standards over Israel, a country that shoots children in the street, blocks aid workers, threatens journalists and which get's more US aid than any other country.



NO, I'm quite certain that these are indeed facts and not opinion. Because, like it or not, we did install pinochet, we were involved in Iran-Contra, we are running double standards on Israel. See, no matter if your left are right, you really can't deny these.

It may of be interested to you that Israel is actually higher on the list of countries "that violate human right" than Iraq is. Here's the top 3:

1. Turkey
2. Israel
3. Iraq

You know, in the end politicians of every country could care less what people write on an internet forum. So before you get a heart attack, go back to your work and do what you can do, because there is one thing you can't do - it is change pre-written history.

Bingo.

Originally posted by MCHost-Marc
You know, in the end politicians of every country could care less what people write on an internet forum. So before you get a heart attack, go back to your work and do what you can do, because there is one thing you can't do - it is change pre-written history.

No, but some people here seem to be trying to pass off pre-written history as "hogwash" and "opinions". You really can't do that.

Archbob, and what may that be? What you folks have been stating have mostly been opinion...

And it is funny to point out whenever I say something and state it is fact, you go nuts... but when you say that something you have stated is a fact, I cannot? Gee... wrong.

You seem to be stating the fact that the U.S. installed Pinochet, the U.S. was involved in the Iran-Contra Scandal, and that the fact that the U.S. does let Isreal get away with its violation of human rights as merely "hogwash" or "opinion" cause every time we bring these things up you say we are just "ranting" or "hogwash" when they are very real facts in recorded history.

Whether Pinochet was good or bad is an opinion, whether or not the U.S. installed him is a fact, not an opinion.

whether or not the U.S. installed him is a fact

Well I could make the case the Chilean Army installed him. ;)

Archbob, just face it. We will agree on nothing.

Yes, the U.S. supported and U.S. funded Chilean army that was made to put Pinochet in power. Either way the U.S.A. was largely responsible for putting a bloody dictator in power. In this case, your argueing something you can't win.

There you go again with your so called "solid steel" arguments... that is where you have a major fault. Excessive pride.

giancarlo...why dont you bring something to the table insted of trying to tell people they're wrong with no factual information yourself.

Does anyone know the lowest age the U.S. drafts? I've heard rumors if they fight iraq & nk they'll be drafting...

Originally posted by giancarlo
There you go again with your so called "solid steel" arguments... that is where you have a major fault. Excessive pride.

Thats all you say when you can't refute my arguements. Did the USA not in fact support and fund the Chilean Coup'de'etat that put him into power?

That is a fact.

The arguement whether Pinochet was better than Allende is an opinion(although 99.9% or everyone would disagree with you) but the fact that the USA was largely responsible for putting him in power is a fact, not an opinion.

Originally posted by case
giancarlo...why dont you bring something to the table insted of trying to tell people they're wrong with no factual information yourself.

I completely agree with this.
Giancarlo, you are not acting as anything other than an annoying two year old who seems to believe that all there is to know is already in your so called brain.

From all the posts I have read of yours, it seems as though you accuse others of having inadequate proof to backup their statements and yet you haven't noticed that you are doing the same. A true hypocite.

If you read over your opinions once more, you'll most likely notice that you are the one who is picking for fights. Either you are right, or everyone is wrong.... what a great way to think.

Shall I call up Mr. Bush and ask him to adopt you? You both share the same way of thinking as well as your close mindedness.

On a side note... I am currently doing a philosophical essay with the following thesis in mind "The use of war is not for the greater good, but for the sole purpose of accomplishing ones goals."

Bush is exactly that, as well as many other historical figures such as Hitler, Caesar, Napoleon, Stalin, etc. Most will probably take offense to my comparison of Bush to those four, but it is rather true. All have specific things in common and they are, self interest, greed, power, and the fact that they all wanted more than what they really had.

Bush -> Oil (Already has power)
Hitler -> World / Power
Caesar -> World / Power
Napoleon -> World / Power
Stalin -> Power

The only difference between Bush and the other four is that Bush is fighting an economical war instead of a territorial war. He doesn't care about whether he will own Iraq's land or not, just the resources that are there.

Why doesn't he attack North Korean instead? One can argue that it's because USA has never really had any other major disputes with them or anything of a greater degree than the current one...
But I believe it's because Bush doesn't believe there is anything beneficial in any sort of way except for a little hunting fun :)

P.S. The above is a brief explanation of my philosophical studies, most are simply ideas or assumptions. Only a few have factual information.

I will not respond to the repetitions of the falsehoods already stated here. I have had enough of this partisan bickering and will not devote another minute of my time to any personal cause to further my name here.

You comparing Bush to these others dictators is wrong, irrelevant and baseless.

The arguement whether Pinochet was better than Allende is an opinion(although 99.9% or everyone would disagree with you) but the fact that the USA was largely responsible for putting him in power is a fact, not an opinion.

That 99.9% number is a load of horse dung. If you ever visited Chile (which I seriously doubt) you will notice he has a massive volume of support in the population.

Edit: Now let me live up to my promise. You people can continue to post lies about me like the last lengthy post of lies in this page... I will have nothing to do with it. You can have these little petty and girlish fights on your own terms because I WILL NOT BE APART OF IT.

Originally posted by giancarlo
That 99.9% number is a load of horse dung. If you ever visited Chile (which I seriously doubt) you will notice he has a massive volume of support in the population.


Oh yes, massive amounts of support, that why so much of the population there wanted him tried in international court for crimes against humanity.

You can keep trying to write our statements off as lies and hogwash, but unless you can throw some evidence or facts on the table, your in a losing position on a debate. Thats how a debate works.