Just wants to know, how many hosting companies here, outsource their Technical & client supports to other companies like bobcares, actsupport etc.?

Honestly in this economy who can afford to. I was planning to, but then sales started drying up and I decided that it wasn't worth the cost.

i see no point in outsourcing support or service. It may be cheaper, put you are giving the most important part of your business to someone else to handle. I prefer to handle my own support and know that everything has been completed properly...i guess its peice of mind.

We are outsourcing soon for our evening/night hours Probably with the next 2 weeks. It is extremely costly to pay someone for these hours with the little amount of work involved.

Likely if I do outsource anything it will be to cover the overnight hours only, I can handle everything that occurs during the day.

Greetings:

We have in-house system administrators and technical support staff.

We find a lot of our upsells to existing customers come from our in-house support staff knowing the customer needs so well; and, building credability over time with the customer meeting their support needs.

We also find having in-house system administrators very useful in terms of system automation, and helping with product development.

From time to time they go out with our sales force to act as sales engineers.

Thank you.

We would never outsource support, plain and simple. Technical support is like one of the core functions of webhosting, you don't want to rely upon a company thats servicing 100's of other companies.

Take this scenario- A client leaves 'hosting company A' and goes to 'hosting company B'. Hosting company A was using 'support outsource company X', the client left 'hosting company A' because of slow support. Now 'hosting company B' is also using 'support outsource company X', so basically the client is again gonna get a mediocre level of service but from only a different company.

In this industry you look to make name for yourself and 'outsourcing' won't really help in the long run.

Even if you want to outsource for 'after-hours' (aka evenings) you might want to look into labour from countries like India, Pakistan etc... the labour there is cheap & the timings would fit perfectly.

Yeah, IllusionSoft is totally right. You make your company, you make it with your support & service - not by outsourcing.
IllusionSoft's example is very good, since that is bound to happen. A lot of outsource places seem to be unable to handle "hard core" support requests & more - by which I mean something that is really hard and needs a lot of explaining into.

So, unless you want less than perfect - do it yourself and hire people yourself, don't hire others to hire others to work for you.

Your support is part of your business.

Your support staff and responce time reflects on you. So why give it to someone else?

Another great point made out by Lirath. He's totally right, your comany reflects on your service, your support, your stability.

If you were really wanting to make something out of your company and turn it into something big - could you really trust those outsource companies to execute that huge job for you?

Hi!
Actually, everybody does outsourcing in some way or the
other and support is no exception. We all just never want to
accept it publically. I am not accusing anybody here. Please
not this is just what I feel personally and I am not trying
to bash anybody and neither am I wanting to get bashed by
anybody.

It is like when I am calling somebody important home for
dinner, I may buy the food but would say that I cooked it
just to get the credit... ;)

A reseller would always say that we are big hosting company
with so many sites etc...
A hosting company says we are big hosting company with our
own datacenter etc...

And the truth is if they do not say that
nobody would buy from them.

It is like when we started we have many who would not come
to us because we said that we have only 4 clients.So we
never said how many client we had then. Now we coolly say
the number as we look after over 60 companies of various
sizes from resellers to datacenters.

Servers are part of your business would you make it
yourself. The services, HTTP, ftp etc.. , are part of your
business, Would you develop it yourself. The OS is a core
component, would you develop it.

One cannot practically do everything on his own.
Support too means 24x7 coverage. A single guy cannot afford
to sit for 24x7x365.
Also, it is not sensible to hire people for 24x7 coverage.
The costs are very high. The infrastructure , training etc.
involved is so high.. That it is not worth the effort.
It is like making an OS , HTTP server , ftp server etc. all
in house as we are a "We do not outsource company" ...

Also, outsource support does not mean bad support.It could
be better than what you can do in house, simply because the
experience matters. Outsource support guys are specialist in
support works only. You as an individual would do support +
billing + marketing + server management + you have a life to
live...

Me for example would never keep my server in house even if I
have a lot of bandwidth. Reason I know the guys at the
datacenter know how to handle servers better than me...

Please note again it is just my personal views and has
nothing to do with marketing my group or anybody else here.
Neither does it have anything to do with bashing anybody..

Have a nice day
Regards
Amar

Likely if I do outsource anything it will be to cover the overnight hours only, I can handle everything that occurs during the day.



Yeah, I think this will give you satisfaction that atleast your customers are not alone. :)


Yeah, IllusionSoft is totally right. You make your company, you make it with your support & service - not by outsourcing.
IllusionSoft's example is very good, since that is bound to happen. A lot of outsource places seem to be unable to handle "hard core" support requests & more - by which I mean something that is really hard and needs a lot of explaining into.

So, unless you want less than perfect - do it yourself and hire people yourself, don't hire others to hire others to work for you


This point may be right but I have seen many companies (Good companies) in this market, who first made their position by offering Support by themselves & then they started Outsourcing. This may be with several reasons, like they can afford the fees, they may not able to handle all the Tickets in-house etc.



A reseller would always say that we are big hosting company
with so many sites etc...
A hosting company says we are big hosting company with our
own datacenter etc...

And the truth is if they do not say that
nobody would buy from them.

It is like when we started we have many who would not come
to us because we said that we have only 4 clients.So we
never said how many client we had then. Now we coolly say
the number as we look after over 60 companies of various
sizes from resellers to datacenters.

Servers are part of your business would you make it
yourself. The services, HTTP, ftp etc.. , are part of your
business, Would you develop it yourself. The OS is a core
component, would you develop it.



Here, I am agree with Amar. Good point. :D

I totally agree bobcares. We cannot keep our eyes on our server 24 hours. Therefore, we should find a cheaper way to solve it. I think we must be ensure the quality of outsouring so we can provide good quality support to our customers and with lower price.

The poll results are not up to my thinking. Actually, I thought that many people here outsource their support issues. Either the results are true or people afraid about chossing the right option. :confused:

Amar, Great post.

Shikha, I wouldn't be surprised if many hosts who do outsource don't comment in order to keep it under the blanket.

Nothing is more frustrating then outsourced support, especially for American companies (since I'm American). It puts me in the position of competing with a country with a 50:1 exchange ratio, which I simply can't do. Makes looking for a job a lot more difficult with the recent outsourced companies.
That's one thing I'll never understand, why not stimulate the economy in the US instead of making it worse, for cheap labor? By keeping Jobs in America, you're keeping money in America, which will eventually end up in the hands of the consumer, and may end up being spent on YOUR services.

That is what is the good and evil of the global economy.
People here, in India ask why do people buy American cars . Or more specifically to our industry why does everybody lease out servers from the US.
There are things that are cheaper in the US than the rest of the world and vise -versa.
It is not something we must be angry about.
It is something we must get used to and accept.

You for example have expertise in a specific industry. Why not start business in hosting and get richer.
Me for example would have preferred selling servers but I know I cannot compete with Americans on that. Rather than saying that Americans have taken away my business, I would buy servers from Americans and sell services to Americans.
So everybody wins...

Have a nice day :)

Regards
Amar

That is what is the good and evil of the global economy.



I agree. Nobody can bound internet into boundaries. In other words, Internet knows no boundaries. Thats what makes Internet so popular & powerful. Internet is a opportunity to grab for everyone without any country limits.
Just my view points.
:)

No. I was planning to and was looking into it, but never found any one good. In-house is more expensive, but worht it, to provide quality to my clients.

I was planning to and was looking into it, but never found any one good. In-house is more expensive, but worht it, to provide quality to my clients.



As per my knowledge, I know 2 companies:

http://www.bobcares.com
http://www.actsupport.com

You can compare both in terms of Prices & services by visiting their websites. You can also Search this forum for reviews on both of these companies.
:)

Originally posted by bobcares
That is what is the good and evil of the global economy.
People here, in India ask why do people buy American cars . Or more specifically to our industry why does everybody lease out servers from the US.
There are things that are cheaper in the US than the rest of the world and vise-versa.

It's tough to get used to, considering that's the career I choose, and decided to actually go back to college to get the piece of paper (degree) along with my experience. It would be such a waste to throw all that away because things are cheaper in other countries, I consider that being a stupid American business owner. How can someone expect to continue to gather American customers and now pay American employees :).


You for example have expertise in a specific industry. Why not start business in hosting and get richer.
Me for example would have preferred selling servers but I know I cannot compete with Americans on that. Rather than saying that Americans have taken away my business, I would buy servers from Americans and sell services to Americans.
So everybody wins...

Eventually I'll get back into owning a business, once I'm done with College and ready to take on the responsibility of not seeing my family for a while. The thing is American consumers and (especially) bsuinesses are buying services a lot more for other countries then our own which only hurts the economy.

Originally posted by comphosting
The thing is American consumers and (especially) bsuinesses are buying services a lot more for other countries then our own which only hurts the economy of my country.

You should take things one step further. Don't buy anything that isn't from an out of state business. It hurts your states economy.

Better yet, don't buy things from anyone outside your city or else you will hurt your city's economy.

Actually, make sure you conduct all of your business on your block, god forbid a merchant some place across town should benefit and you should hurt the economy of your neighborhood.

Now I am happy. When I last saw (yesterday), the poll results was
Yes: 2
No: 17
Planning: 9

:D

Originally posted by Acronym BOY
You should take things one step further. Don't buy anything that isn't from an out of state business. It hurts your states economy.

Better yet, don't buy things from anyone outside your city or else you will hurt your city's economy.

Actually, make sure you conduct all of your business on your block, god forbid a merchant some place across town should benefit and you should hurt the economy of your neighborhood.

You know that's BS. The US has a HUGE trade deficit, only because American's are buying products that aren't made here. I'm not saying that I'm perfect in any way, I do buy foreign products as well, but personally, I want to keep the American Job Market in America. I'm certainly not excluding by race or any other means, I could really care less where you are from originally, but American jobs should be in the hands of legal American citizens.
Just out of curiosity are you an actual tech or what? Obviously if you work in a grocery store you can be a smart about it, since this doesn't hurt you in anyway, but then again, I'm noticing that's the type of attitude you have in a lot of posts.

Approaching the subject of using non-US personnel:

Frankly, I wish it was possible to make and sell products made in the USA profitably. I, also, wish it was economically feasible to keep more jobs of all types in the US. However, the facts are clear. In many industries, you must source some product, service, or other element of your business from less expensive countries.
It isn't a matter of choice, but one of survival.

Now, my main point. As a host, I have two choices. First, I can only employ and contract with US persons. In this case, I will lose money and no one will have jobs.

The other choice is to split the work in the most appropriate manner. That doesn't just protect the foreign jobs, but protects my U. S. employees as well. Plain, simple, if I used no foreign sourcing, I would have no foreign or U. S. employees-I would not remain in business.

How do you balance? All my servers are in the U. S. All work requiring hands-on is done in the U. S. by U. S. employees. However, the majority of direct customer support is off-shore. Overall, I have about a 70/30% split, meaning 70% of my employees and/or contractors are not in the U. S. The other 30% are.

Greetings Incognito:

“Frankly, I wish it was possible to make and sell products made in the USA profitably. I, also, wish it was economically feasible to keep more jobs of all types in the US. However, the facts are clear. In many industries, you must source some product, service, or other element of your business from less expensive countries.
It isn't a matter of choice, but one of survival.”

If you are competing on the basis of price, you are most likely correct.

However, if you are competing on value, and you find most of your customers in the US, then having in-house support is a matter of survival.

Do you think you could sell $1,000+ per month managed dedicated servers to companies in the U.S. if the only way for them to get support was through a Web-based ticket system which is answered by some one who is answering tickets for how many other companies?

And if you could make the sale, how long would you keep the customer.

Thank you.

In all due respect, because I do have tremendous respect for your operation and professionalism:

However, if you are competing on value, and you find most of your customers in the US, then having in-house support is a matter of survival. I never said a word about not having in-house support.

First, I made it clear that for my business model a mix of U. S. and non-US works. Second, even my non-US is still in-house. Obviously this was not specifically addressing the original question, but rather the follow ups related to costs US vs Non-US.

I do agree with your point on $1,000/month customers and your point against support groups with dozens of customers, particularly those not organized well. However, as in anything, there is a middle ground. For instance, I do offer entry level, few frills, low cost hosting which is support ticket only. On the other hand, the upper end clients have access to many additional forms of support.

I believe the biggest problems people have when outsourcing or going off-shore is not covering all the bases. That's why I have multi-levels of technical support where those who are just responding to simple tickets have their work subjected to regular, disciplined quality review.

While for certain tasks, I would strongly recommend a firm such as yours, I have other tasks that would be cost prohibitive and wasteful. For instance, this weekend, I need approximately 15 copies of a simple commercial script installed on different sites I personally own. I would not use my US staff to do these tasks. Likewise, I need next week approximately 50 domains migrated from one server to another. Do I need to pay $20/domain or how about using my off-shore staff for about 1/10th of that. I guess the key is to match skills appropriately to requirements. And, location is not a factor in skill level. However, we also must (to your point) match accessibility and service to expectations.

Furthermore, the global impact will continue to change. While very few off-shore groups are offering phone support within the hosting industry today, it isn't really that difficult. However, today it is still costly and their are issues sometimes with verbal communication skills. Again, I have some individuals who communicate at an extremely high level with no loss of effectiveness due to their accents or experience, while others could not be allowed to communicate directly with customers because of language skill issues.

The issues surrounding mix of US versus non-US and phone versus tickets are just two more issues to add to the issue of on-site versus off-site. All have their places. Good managers must insure they don't use them inappropriately.

Greetings Incognito:

Yes, I did miss your point. Thank you for taking the time to correct my direction.

What you stated makes sense.

Thank you.

you guys REALLY need to read what bobcares said.... OUTSOURCED SUPPORT IS NOT ALWAYS BAD SUPPORT

Actually outsources support is probably BETTER with as many "Hi, I wanna be a web host today" hosts out there. I have (for various reasons) needed to seek hosting outside of what I provide and I HATE it when I know more than the tech does about their OWN servers.

Again, outsourced support is not bad support. Bad support is bad support whether it be provided by yourself, your neighbor, your 4 year old son, or an outsourced company.

I never said it was bad, and personally of I lived in India, I'd be asking Bob for a job right now :). What I'm trying to say, is as a tech it just hurts my chances of getting work. Now I do agree with Incognito on mixing support. Furthermore, I agree that budget budget hosting can't possibly be funded with expensive techs. What bugs me is when the more expensive, upper-level hosts still use outsourced support when they can certainly afford a US based tech.

there are also US-based outsourced support companies that are reasonably priced and do a very good job.

shikha, something to note: if you can not spell out 'you' in correspondence with your clients, outsource to someone who can =]

paul

Originally posted by rusko
there are also US-based outsourced support companies that are reasonably priced and do a very good job.
paul
Can you give me some example with good service?

I was just about to mention something along those lines. lol

I have heard so many nightmares about outsourcing offshore.

I had the opportunity to read a few logged support chats handled by an overseas company, for an American company. This was when we were deciding whether or not to outsource.

It completely changed my ideas of outsourcing support.

When someone attempts to get live support or any support for that matter, and your outsourced tech or sales agent replies with.... "I are (name), is there something helping I can be with?" That's a HUGE problem!

How can they assist them, if the customer can't understand them? Phone is different. You can pretty much break more language barriers over the phone, but chat, email, and helpdesk.....forget it. The customer has to piece together the words first, like a jigsaw puzzle, before they can understand what the tech is trying to say to them.

Now, I'm not trying to bash anyone, or put anyone down at all. This is just a fact. Not all offshore techs have this problem, so I'm not generalizing either.

Most of you, that has had to read that crap, know exactly what I mean. Even if you won't say it, you're sitting there right now thinking....."lol he's right."

I'm sorry, there is no way I would trust my business to a company that cannot communicate with my customers.

there are also US-based outsourced support companies that are reasonably priced and do a very good job.


http://actsupport.com is US based company but they have their office in India also.


shikha, something to note: if you can not spell out 'you' in correspondence with your clients, outsource to someone who can =]


Thanks for your advice.

:)

Originally posted by Shikha
http://actsupport.com is US based company but they have their office in India also.



Thanks for your advice.

:)
US based company does not mean they employ American as supporter so the communication problem still cannot be solved.
:rolleyes:

This is important in making any business decisions and in judging people, whether in business or on a personal basis.

I often read here comments about communication skills, particularly when on the subject of outsourced support. I can assure you that good communication skills and poor skills are not isolated to any one country. I have read responses from "Americans" and "British" that appeared to have come from another planet. Likewise, I have personnel in India, who communicate with the finest of the Queen's English and would not in any way tip you off as to their nationality. In fact, I have in my office in the U. S., a financial analyst, who is a native of India. She likely has the best command of the language of anyone in the office. Of course, she does have an undergraduate degree and two masters (one in India, one in the U. S.).

Don't prejudge, but talk at length to any potential business partner. Find a way to test the knowledge and skills of those who would be communicating with your customers, not just the owners. See what kind of quality control they have in place. Basically, perform your own "due diligence."

Let's take the three support groups with India presence of which I am aware-bobcares, actsupport, hosticket/motley fool. Read the posts here and you will see Amar, Sathis & Roopa, and Balaji would fit in the top echelon of communicators on this board. However, you would have to delve further to evaluate the skills of their staff. If you have heard or read negatives in that regard, question them. Ask how they have addressed the issue.

Do the same with the other support groups: hostworks.ca, esupportnow, cylynx (Phillipines), handsonsupport. wemanageservers. Start with a requirements list. Evaluate them against that list. Then decide if any fit your needs.

The requirements list is critical, because each host has different needs and each support provider different offerings. Last, if you give someone a trial, monitor their responses and address any issues quickly. Perhaps, even engage someone else to monitor and manage.

Well said Incognito. :)

Yeah Incognato 's a schmart feller. MayB eye Shud git some wark fram him.:D :beer:

Originally posted by comphosting
Yeah Incognato 's a schmart feller. MayB eye Shud git some wark fram him.


lmao.

In any case I agree. I don't think it's an isolated issue. However, from the stories I have heard the issue is worse when the support company is offshore.

I have also seen some of our own American techs that can't speak proper English, set aside type an understandable sentence to save their lives.

We actually had to fire an in-house tech, after 3 warnings, because he just would not stop speaking Ebonically to our customers.

You would think it's common sense not to answer the phone... "How you be this evenin' yo?" and when the customer is kind of stunned and says "Fine and yourself?" you don't answer "Yo I'm just chillin' "

It's not isolated to country or nationality in any way....I agree

Originally posted by Shikha
Well said Incognito. :)
Yes.Totally agree that.:D

Actually slang is becoming quite region specific... let me give you an example:

We wen' fer a wawk to the store yesderday. My wife probly wan'ed to buy stuff but I said no.

The above is the exact why someone from here would prounounce that sentence. However, I have friends from Boston and New York and I swear I have to do a double-take every time they say the word "school". I don't know what I'd do if I had ever offered phone support.

Well here in PA they have a problem with the word "yuns" it's not as bad actually, but after listening to some of the tech calls here, for quality purposes, you here customers saying "yuns? huh?"

However, it's a good conjuction, and better than what I assume it means "You ones"

Are you ones, still having problems?" lmao

In any case, communication is the big issue, when outsourcing. They have to be honest, knowledgable, and able to communicate. Even then ask yourself, why you would trust the most important part of your business to some 3rd party.

That's like you go outside naked, and let someone else where your clothes. Your support is what you wear on the outside, that people see. Don't give it to someone else.

Outsource your support when you charge a low price for hosting. The people looking for the cheapest hosting get outsourced support. They hate it but what do they expect for a few bucks a month. Everything I know!

But reality is reality.