Has this one been done before on this forum ??? I hope it throws up some useful data (statistically) over the next few days.

IN YOUR OPINION, WHO ARE THE 3 BEST HOSTING COMPANIES in terms of "Quality of Service" ?

Please give your reasons in brief.

Thanks in advance.


[This message has been edited by Learner (edited 06-30-2000).]

a) Hosting Matters, INC. www.hostingmatters.com (http://www.hostingmatters.com)

b) Hosting Solutions, INC. www.windowswebhost.com (http://www.windowswebhost.com)

c) WebAxxs www.webaxxs.net (http://www.webaxxs.net)

Well, thanks, FGW. :)

Also, I've heard good things about Future Quest (http://www.futurequest.com), BC likes below10host (http://www.below10host.com), and tk likes VeoWeb (http://www.veoweb.net). I'm sure both BC and tk will be happy to comment on the quality of service they've received thus far.


------------------
Annette
Hosting Matters, Inc.
http://www.hostmatters.com

Correct Annette. I'm still happy (after about 3/4 months now) and they have been unfailing in their support.

They deserve all the kudos they get, as you should too, judging by the no. of comments made in this forum over the last month! :D

Annette,

Did you notice I signed up a account with you? I'm just testing waters what Alanazba servers looks like :)

So far, it's pretty nice but I know some features are limited but I am sure they can work and ugprade in the future!

Nice job :)

See the discussion entitled Which companies are really "good" web hosts? All you'll get from your question is a popularity poll, not any useful statistical data. An evaluration of any kind of review must consider the expectations of the reviewer or it has little value. Different expectations and experiences can yield very different reports.

I am hoping a popularity poll will also be informative enough for us newbies, especially if this site grows into a nice long list...

I hope it does.

Thanks a lot for your referral to the other post. It contained, as you correctly pointed out, some very pertinent information.

AOL is awfully popular, yet I would not recommend them to anyone I like... :-)

------------------
Chuck Fox
No setup charges!
http://cfoxhost.com

This entire board is a joke, if you were to spend some time on this board you would get the impression that there are only a half dozen host out there that are any good. And that is consistent throughout this entire board, there are so many good host out there but these people do not want you to know about them, the people on this board indorse there own sites and your choices here are very limited. This board is controlled by a selected few and is only used to promote there own sites, free advertising. That is my opinion, there is one motive on this board to advertise the few host that control this board. I have been reading this board for many months now and that is the impression I get from it, there are a half dozen good host and the rest are crap, well that is just not so. I totally agree with Duster this question is a joke and so is this board, and in the many months I have been following discussions here there is very little useful information. Except for the TH and Burst conversations, I think those post were very useful to many people, but there are very few conversations that actually are useful. But I am sure it works out very well for Annette and others that do there free advertising here but who else does it benefit. If you ask about a company that is not controlling this board, you are just referred to Annette's site or one of the others that control this board. I have also seen many companies driven out of this board, they post a message and then they are accused of spamming, and they use the same tactics as the ones that control the board. The selected few do not want you to know about other companies, that just hurts them. I have come to the conclusion that this board is very bias and is pretty much worthless to anyone actually wanting unbiased information about a company. If you believe what you see on this board you will come to the conclusion that there are half dozen good companies and the rest are crap, personally I am done wasting my time on this board there is no useful information on this board just companies taking advantage of free advertising. The board is full of vultures that just wait for the opportunity to grab a client at the expense of other very good companies. It would be like going to Ford and asking them there opinion of Chevy, instead of talking to some one that drives a Chevy is that opinion you want? That is a biased opinion that benefits no one but the company that wants your business, it is a joke. I watch many boards and I have to say this one is the worse, I have never seen another board that is controlled by such a selected few. If you want a unbiased opinion of a hosting company other then the one that controls this board you are not going to find it here. They do not want you to know that there are many excellent companies out there that can fulfill your needs just as well as any of the ones controlling this board. Asking Ford about Chevy is useless information and that is all you are going to find here, if your company is not in the controlling loop then you are a outcast.

There's a grain or two of truth in what yuo say, along with a great deal of distortion. For one thing, no one controls this board (as far as discussion goes). For another, you think of it as having one voice whne clearly it is a mass of different voices, all with varying opinions. Of course this board is not unbiased. It is not one voice, but many, and some people have definite biases and prejudices. They range from people who represent a company to customers who just signes up and think that "their" company is the greatest around, and so it must be for everybody.

I think many of us want to hear about other companies who are reputable, especiall since no one company is right for everybody (as discussed elsewhere). Our discussion has even helped guide some hosting companies who have changed their sites to reflect their actual policies instead of using terms so frequently misused by others.

Even before the Internet, it was incumbent on each of us to be critical (in the truest sense, that of discrimination) of what is said, not to accept everything at face value, and to question the motives for making statements. Since the advent of the Internet becoming mainstream, that need is exacerbated. With nearly universal access, and so much more information, pseudo information, and opinions than ever before, one must sort through a lot of chaff to get to something truly meaningful.

You can't rightfully blame any forum for its chaff to good content ratio, unless the administrator or moderators do absolutely nothing, and that doesn't apply here.

I still participate here, even though I chose a company for my dedicated server over 6 weeks ago and am not trolling for customers. There is more to be learned, and I do what I can to help others make the move to a dedicated server as I did. It's one way to bypass terrible service and slow support.


[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 06-29-2000).]

I would not shake a stick at www.futurequest.net, (http://www.futurequest.net,)

I know this is probably one
of the first you have heard
like that, but I have my
reasons.

I will keep it on a Professional
stand-point, as much as possible though.

That's just my two cents..

Such remarks are as useless as the raves from people who just signed up with a company. If you want to say something useful, you could give details of your experiences with them (or any other host). Otherwise, there is no point in posting as it tells us nothing useful to base a decision on.

DUSTER --

Rather than being a smart ass about it, why not listen? Boy you are a biased mother ****er, aren't you?

Why biased I say?
influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice. This definately fits your category.

You better keep blowing dust, Duster buddy.
You've got a long road ahead of you.

I have no use of telling you -- why I have posted negative feedback about Futurequest. Besides -- why should I Have to tell you? You are a KNOW IT ALL ANYHOW. Know all SEE ALL, right?

Right.

I was listening, you just weren't saying anything.

Yes, I am biased. However, a bias is not the same as prejudice. I have an admitted bias towards intelligent discussion and choose to communicate only with people who can do so in a civilized manner. Unfortunately, that rules you out on both counts.

I merely suggested you substantiate your statement. In other words, give us some facts. I would expect the same whether positive or negative.

Insults are the refuge of the incompetent and feeble minded and is a sure indicator that they have lost the discussion.




[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 06-30-2000).]

Wow, Duster you are good. You a lawyer or something?

------------------
Adam "fibroptikl" Lysne
adam@motion5.com
Questions?
fibroptikl
73218345

Watch yer language fiberglass.

And if you have any beef against FutureQuest, then air it here. The owner of FQ hangs out around here and loves to answer questions. So if you wish to complain about FQ, then make sure you have the facts so that Deb doesn't shoot your facts to pieces and embarrass yourself in front of everyone.

As for 'My Opinion', my suggestion is this. The ranking directories out there are far worser than what most boards like this one, Scriptkeeper, etc. will ever be. Genuine people hang out here wanting to genuinely help out people who otherwise have problems with their hosts - Interland, *****, etc. etc. are examples. And if you do a search on Deja for these hosts, you'll find it backed up time and time again. And, also note that the hosts which are the highly ranked in the directories tend to be lambasted for poor tech support, billing problems, etc. etc. At the same time, note also that the hosts mentioned around here are never mentioned in the directories. So I would suggest you re-look at your point.
As for the point on spamming, the Admin and others have made it very clear here : there is a forum for advertising; you agreed to an agreement if you signed up; you follow it. It's that simple.

Let's face it : it seems quite a lot of the hosts we see around here are either fraudulent (e.g. Super.nu), totally lacking in support or manners (TH) or have reliability problems. These boards are simply sounding boards for others' opinions - take it as you will.

Final point : if we were really controlled - I personally wouldn't be around anyway (nor would others).
My 2 cents (+ .2 cents GST starting from tomorrow ;))

My Opinion: of course, you are entitled to your opinion. Some opinions can be accepted strictly as opinion, without substantiation, but irrational opinion cannot. I think you're dead wrong with this post, and since you mentioned me specifically, I'll tell you why I think that.

You seem to think that there is some mysterious cadre somehow controlling this board. Who exactly would that be? Or are you simply basing that on the fact that some people post more than others, and are thus more visible than others? The fact is that this board, like many others, is pretty much self-moderating - but the ultimate control lies with the owner of the board. The self-moderating part comes very noticeably into play when spammers show up. Your post, in fact, sounds a lot like someone who was slapped down for spamming.

You say that people here act like there are only a few good hosts out there. It is true that the bad hosts far outnumber the good. It is not true, however, that anyone here has ever said that only the ones who are mentioned are any good. How do you expect anyone here to know every host out there? In addition, you are attempting to demonize people for posting what they know or can point to, and yet you have contributed absolutely nothing constructive to the conversation, which smacks of hypocrisy. If there are other good hosts out there, why don't you name some? Why don't you invite them over here to see if they are willing to spend part of their time in a genuine effort to help people who have questions (not always related to hosting) with exactly no expectation of anything in return? Many of us do just that. Or do you suppose that since some of us run hosting companies that our knowledge is somehow invalidated (ref. the IP discussion) because of it?

You say that it must "work out well" for myself and others due to the "free advertising" here. You have a very mistaken idea about this. There is no free advertising here. People who spam here are informed that they are in the wrong and directed to the appropriate forum a little further down. As far as working out well - if you count goodwill and high opinion as working out well, which I'm sure you don't - then yes, it does. You, however, seem to think that just the fact that hosts post here results in some sort of immediate, magical spike in customers, which is also incorrect.

You say that some people are here only to "indorse" [sic] their own services and pull clients away from other services. I'll take the IP discussion as an example to pull names. Can you show us one unsolicited reply to a post, or one unsolicited thread started by myself, Martie (hostcaters), Mike (webauthorities) that exists solely to flog our respective companies or convince someone to drop their current host? Or how about one from Felix (can-host), who started a topic about the problems they were having with canhost.ca? The fact is that most of the hosts who stay here (opposed to the hosts that spam and run) do so for the community and because they don't mind helping people out, no matter what service they happen to be using. If what you claim is true, why on earth would I mention other hosts in my initial reply to this topic?

You say you've been reading here for months, yet it has apparently escaped you that my company, at least, was only started at the beginning of May - yet I have been here a lot longer than that. You say that people asking about hosts other than the ones you seem to think control this board results in the questioner being pointed to my site, or another that "controls" this board - yet the only people that seem not to address the issue the questioner asked are people spamming for some company. You can pick any of the people mentioned above - I defy you, again, to pick out any post that qualifies as spam. You'll find none. And since you mention me so prominently in your message, please tell me who was "controlling" this board prior to me starting up a hosting company - BC? TK? Duster? Oh, wait, none of them are hosts, so they must not be in this secret club, right? Do you see how ridiculous this seems?

The fact is that the majority of people/hosts who hang around in this forum and others do so out of a sincere desire to help people, do so to keep up with news in the hosting world, and do so to monitor what might be said about them in open forums. Posts like yours are not only unhelpful but unconstructive as well, as it adds nothing to the discussion and only seems that you have some sort of personal problem with the people here. I have no doubt that you will see this as some mechanism of the secret society you think controls this board - reasonable people, however, no matter what question they may be asking, will decide just what your post, sans credible evidence, is worth to them, and just what the posts from the various hosts here are worth to them.

------------------
Annette
Hosting Matters, Inc.
http://www.hostmatters.com

Adam,

No, I'm not a lawyer. I just have always been very logical in my thinking, believe in sticking to the facts rather than innuendo, and, for many years, have not allowed anyone to "push my buttons." Most of the time, when people react as f. did, the problem lies within them and really has nothing to do with you, even if you trigger them. Thus, rather than being angry at anything he said, I feel sorry for him.

I have watched this board for about a year now and have yet to post on this board. But over the last 2 months I have seen this board deteriorate so I thought I thought I would voice my opinion on why it is.

The topic of this thread is '...WHO ARE THE 3 BEST HOSTING COMPANIES.....' . I think it's cool that Annette decided to host web sites but with all do respect I don't think someone who has hosted web sites on a 'premade hosting company' server for under two months can be considered 'THE BEST'. When you have hosted as many web sites as Burst or one of the big boys then I think you can call yourself the best.

I don't mean this be an attack on anyone especially Annette, but come Annette if you TRULY are here to just help people then take your URL off your signature. The CEO of FQ posts here every once and while and every time she fails to post here URL under name. I commend Duster for not posting his URL, because I know he is starting to host sites also.

fiberglassworld - You should post why you do not like FQ if you are going to say they are bad, it's common courtesy to back up a statement like that.

Oh come now

"if you TRULY are here to just help people then take your URL off your signature"

How petty can you really get??

Just because what you think in your mind of what someone helping someone should look like doesn't mean they have to.

I really don't see what a signature has to do anything, because its just that, a signature. If we as hosting companies wish to help other people we can and will, I choose not to because I'm still sorting many things out with my business and design work which leaves me burnt out each day but I do read the boards and respond occasionally.

Or I could put it this way, she's giving free help and not advertising her service saying "come signup with me ect" so if she's doing that I think it overly allows her to put her URL in her signature!



------------------
Sincerely~
Daniel Pearson
UltraSpeed USA
http://www.ultraspeedusa.com
AIM: UltraSpeedUSA
ICQ: 7021831
Email: dpearson@ultraspeedusa.com
Phone: 1-205-785-1872

First off, I certainly have not called myself "the best". Secondly, while the lease I chose includes certain tools, it is certainly not "pre-made" - we, like quite a few others who have chosen Alabanza, have also chosen to make modifications based on need. Third, the actual subject started on this thread is best in "quality of service" - not "who is the biggest".

That said, there is a reason I post my .sig: personally, I find it helpful to know what context a person is posting in, and what affiliation they might have to a company. People can investigate it or not - up to them. Your comment on this somehow being related to or having any bearing on any help I might give people in my travels is not very logical at all.

------------------
Annette
Hosting Matters, Inc.
http://www.hostmatters.com

Seen it all,

I think you looked but didn't see some important points, including why there is no such thing as a best company for everybody. Also, it's not about how big a company is or how many sites they host, but the level of service they provide. Indeed, I handle everything for most of my clients, including giving guidance on some issues, even those not related to Internet issues. They may very well consider me the best for them because of that. Not being a huge company that says "were're hosts, anything else is not out job", I offer personalized service. However, that certainly doesn't make me the best for everybody.

I've been hosting sites for a bit over two years, though only recently with my own server. While I appreciate the fact that you commend me for not posting my URL, there are a number of reasons I don't. I'm not aggressively looking for new customers. I specialize in small to medium businesses and spend a considerable amount of time with several of them helping their businesses grow (and not just 'net stuff). I have a talent for business and making businesses grow, and it is usually in a different manner than the majority (and it's fun doing so). That means, among other things, that I have to be selective as there is only so much time to go around. I have a personal relationship with most of my clients, and have met many of the out of town ones as well as the local ones. They share success stories with me and I'm glad to hear them.

I have picked up some new accounts from other sources and associations (Share for one), and I only host them, no other involvement other than keeping things stable and functional.

So you see, I may not be as altruistic as you think (though I am to a large degree). Many of the people looking for a host would be just as well off (or better) with one of the other hosts here. There are others that, frankly, I wouldn't want as customers and I'm better off for them going elsewhere.

For a lot of reasons, I prefer someone mention their affiliation, and a signature is a good way to do it. It helps put things in perspective. I recall someone putting DI down for the most trivial of reasons, and it was only later that I discovered this person represented another company, rather than being a customer.

I have seen a very few signatures that I think violated the spirit of them and this forum, and I found them objectionable for that reason. They were blatant commercials rather than a simple statement of identity. However, most comply and I'm glad to see them.

[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 06-30-2000).]

Thank You very much for the 7 paragraph speech, I was pretty bored after the 2nd paragraph, and could not handle much more of scolding, but you did prove many of my points very well, and why you can not say anything that the ringleaders do not approve of or you are a outcast. That is what makes this board a biased worthless piece of garbage. Oh No somebody wrote something that the queen Annette does not like so we all have to suffer with her boring ass speeches, telling us what a asset she is to this board and no one else has anything to contribute except her. Just because my comments do not help you, or you are not interested in them in any way, SO WHAT who in the hell do you think you are. You must really enjoy putting people down I guess that what makes you feel good. Some one asked for opinions of web host, and I and others were just making them aware that this is a very biased placed to be looking for opinions. You must think every thing you say should be written on stone and praised, the queen has spoken the queens words are helpful to everyone. You sound like a used car salesman, we are just here to help people and make friends we are not here spamming our services. Others might appreciate comments that you do not, or are we expected to check with you before we write a statement to make sure it is helpful or useful to the queen of the board. And if it is not helpful or useful to her then we should not print it even though others might be interested in someone else's opinion, and some here seem to agree. And I am really surprised you did not pick apart the spelling and the grammar, you must be slipping or you are saving that for later. And how would you go about proving or disproving a opinion, I know you want proof from everyone making any kind of statement, it is pretty much a auto response. But my opinion is what I have taken away from this board over the last several months, how can that be proven with some sort of documentation. Asking me to prove my opinion is one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard. But thank you once again for backing up my opinion and bringing that opinion closer to a fact.

The point you are missing is this: you are entitled to your opinions. However, you have
also made claims that can easily be shown to be false (a small group controlling this board, for instance, both myself and others simply post here to "indorse" our services, etc.). If you continue to make those claims, you are under the obligation to show that those claims are true. Otherwise, those claims are merely your crackpot opinions, and you look foolish without anything to back you up. It would be the same as if someone were to claim that the moon is made of green cheese - and were they to continue to make that claim after others have shown it to be false, it would merely make a statement about how willing they were to look at things that a) they might not agree with and b) might make them change that opinion. As an added bonus, it would simply show everyone that they simply were being unreasonable, and would likely make others lower their estimation of that person.

You've offered nothing of substance beyond "I think this place is biased." Guess what - every place you go will be biased. I suppose we'll never get to hear about whatever hosts you think the rest of us aren't mentioning, but who happen to be among what you feel should be the best in terms of quality. I suppose we'll never get the answer to who exactly you think is controlling this board. And I suppose we'll never know just why you seem to have some sort of problem with me, or just why you seem to be so bitter about this place in general - or was I right in my estimation that you got nailed for spamming?

But since this seems to be some sort of personal thing for you, I suppose that any question I ask will go unanswered, and that any attempt at rational conversation will be in vain - so I won't make any further attempts. Thanks for making all of that clear.

------------------
Annette
Hosting Matters, Inc.
http://www.hostmatters.com

[This message has been edited by Annette (edited 06-29-2000).]

Learner,

I think your subject for this Thread was a very good one, however it appears as if things have gone off in a whole different direction.

Personally I would like to hear more about what hosts people like the best. After all that was the original Intention of the thread.



------------------
[ Jason Berresford | Admin]
[ http://www.can-host.com ]
[ Admin@can-host.com ]
[ (905)765-8140 ]

I'm with you on this, Annette. There comes a time we have to realize we're not dealing with a rational person and attempts at communication are fruitless. It's like the admonition of not trying to teach a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 06-30-2000).]

My Opinion's post probably should have been posted as a separate topic to avoid the off topic problem (I am guilty of doing this, but at least recognize it usually :) ).

My only suggestions to MyOpinion is to post a reply to this person so that it isn't the same people replying to every topic. These people (the hosts) come here often to help, and it wold be nice to have more people helping, and a bit less complaining that no one besides them, posts.

Also, you mentioned being bored with Annette's 7 paragraph post. I suppose you don't count what you posted as long winded, since you didn't use paragraphs? You had some good discussion points, but that solid block of text is a bit difficult to read through.

While I don't agree with what you posted, it is good to hear other's views. Do you by chance have a host you'd like to recommend?

Personally, I just think we get the topic back on track, or ask Gordon to close the topic.

I know MyOpinion will probably say 'See?! See?!', but really, if you want to discuss merits of other people's opinions - open a new topic.

And if you want my opinion? I'll have no problem posting it and making it very clear what I think of it - if you open a new topic on it.

>> I think your subject for this Thread was a very good one, however it appears as if things have gone off in a whole different direction. <<

Thanks! Being a newbie in this area, I desired to generate a list of which hosting companies readers of this thread felt offered the BEST SERVICE.

Personally, I have learnt the hard way that it is not necessary that BIG companies only offer superior services. SMALL companies do too. In fact, SMALL companies often are known to try harder at giving better service so that they too can become a BIG company tomorrow.

It is sad that the original contention of this THREAD is lost. I am hoping that if all readers of this thread post the names of the three companies they think offer the BEST SERVICE (with or without reasons), many newbies like me would re-consider such information before deciding on whom to tie up with for offering hosting services in our city or country.

I am just one such newbie (and I am sure many other newcomers are out there like me who feel so lost at the moment in arriving at a decision.)

I, for one, do not feel that this forum is useless. IT DEFINITELY ISN'T !!!! On the contrary, it has really taught me things that one would take longer to learn by personal experience.

I would prefer to learn from the mistakes of others if I can.

>> Personally I would like to hear more about what hosts people like the best. After all that was the original Intention of the thread. <<

... and I am sure there are many more like us reading this thread desiring similar information.

I have read through many posts in this forum and have learnt a lot from both the FULL MEMBERS and JUNIOR MEMBERS regularly voicing there opinions here.

I must also opine that I find Annette's and Duster's arguments and opinions extremely logical. There are so many others here with sharp, crisp logic too, I am sorry I can't recall their names at the moment, because this is just my third day as a member of this forum.

The INTERNET is all about FREE SPEECH and FREE KNOWLEDGE. That is what I find so beautiful about this forum.

PLEASE... I would be grateful if all readers of this thread mentioned the names of three hosting companies offering the BEST SERVICE in their opinions.

My intention was to do a STATISTICAL SURVEY... I hope that is the ultimate result of this thread :)

Learner,

Thank you for bringing it back on topic.... And let all future posts on this thread be respective to the survey that Learner requires - anything else? Open a new topic for crying out loud!

Well, I just thought that I would throw my 2 cents in.

My Opinion: Stop belittleing (sp?) Annette with her 7 paragraph message when you yourself wrote the original 7 paragraph condensed into one message. Did anyone else have a problem reading that message. I had to skim a couple of times. Second, stop hidding behind "UNREGISTERED" and show us your real name and URL.

See it all: I disagree that a company that's only 2 months old can't possibly be one of the best. When I started my hosting company, I was originally with the company you mentioned highly FutureQuest. When I started with them the company FutureQuest was in it's second or third month of existance with fewer than 100 clients. That was about 1 and 1/2 years ago and then they were one of the top hosts. They were always listed in the forums as one of the top 10.

"if you TRULY are here to just help people then take your URL off your signature"

I see nothing wrong with taglines. In fact, I like to know who I'm talking with. I wish that Duster and Chicken would post theirs. I would like to look at their websites.

Who runs this board? Not me. I post topics here to help other people. I've been doing this long enough now that I have some knowledge of what I'm doing and I'd like to share that with others. I'm not here to solicit clients. I enjoy helping other people.

Who do you host with? Do they have a control panel? Do they have pre-installed CGI? If so, then why don't you classify them as "pre-made"? Do you consider a true host to be someone that doesn't offer anything but POP's, Bandwidth and Storage? If so, go see Geocities or Xoom. If you want power and the ability to not have to ask the owner to do every little bitty stupid thing, then get a "pre-made" site.

If "My Opinion" thinks that these boards are so biased, then why are you still here? If I drink a soda that I don't like, do I keep drinking it?

Well, I didn't mean to get so long winded, I just get tired of seeing people who don't have a clue, post silly messages that mean nothing. An Opinion about the top three hosts isn't an essay on why the message forums are biased. It's an OPINION, and like butt holes, everyone's got one.


------------------
Mike Astin
WebAuthorities
http://www.webauthorities.com

Returning to the original topic Learner, unless you ask questions about why (among others, you can't get useful statistical data, nor will it be a survey. At most, you'll get a popularity poll, and that's not the same thing.

Respondent X might like Host A best because they are free. X has a hobbyist's site, is cheap, and likes getting things for free. If there is little or no support and the site is down, that's okay as you get what you pay for.

Respondent Y, on the other hand, cannot stand down time. He might like Host B better because at least they stay up more. They might have free support, even if it takes a long time to get them to respond, if ever.

Respondent Z has a business site and may prefer Host C because they can be counted on. There is a fee for support, and they respond quickly. Z feels confident having her site with Host C because she knows that they are reliable and can take care of any problems, even if Z has to pay for that service. The cost is worth it for the level of service and comfort of peace of mind, and Z also realizes that it is cheaper than having the site down or a prolonged problem that renders her site non functional.

If you ask simple questions, you get simple, meaningless answers (from a usefulness viewpoint). Interestingly, I'm assisting a hyperbaric psychiatrist with a survey at this moment in order to increase the significance of his research. Even the simplest of surveys must at least ask why to make them mean something.

Originally posted by Duster:
Even the simplest of surveys must at least ask why to make them mean something.

Your pointed is noted and appreciated, Duster. I have re-edited my original question at the top of this thread asking for a brief reasoning.

My original question still remains pertinent only to the BEST SERVICE issue... though I am aware that this term is still loosely defined, because as you correctly pointed out, this could mean different things to different people.

This brings me to another question, on which i shall be creating another thread.

Learner, here's another one. This one is one with whom I have had personal experience: ValueWeb. They've taken their knocks from time to time, but when we had our domains with them, I found them to be professional, courteous, and helpful - and that last even if their first level tech couldn't understand what was happening in one instance:

One of our domains was on a different subnet than the others, and couldn't be reached, or even pinged using one of our ISPs. The first level tech tried pinging it from their end and from a site outside their service, with good results. We discovered that we couldn't get to any domains on that particular subnet, which pointed to a deny on our ISP's dialup IP range somewhere on their end. Their network folks found and fixed it, within the next 24 hours. Throughout the entire issue, their folks were pleasant to deal with. In addition, when we moved to our server and cancelled those accounts, they were quite nice about it and even refunded the unused portion of that month's billing without even being asked. That's service.

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Annette
Hosting Matters, Inc.
http://www.hostmatters.com

Hi Annette,

In addition, when we moved to our server and cancelled those accounts, they were quite nice about it and even refunded the unused portion of that month's billing without even being asked. That's service.

In my opinion, refunding the unused portion when a customer cancels their account should be Standard Operating Procedure for all hosting companies. It amazes me the people who call me and say "we need this site set up quick, because our contract is up in 3 days and we don't want to have to pay for another 6 months" (or 3 months or 1 month or whatever) - that just blows my mind.

Yeah - if you're leasing a $2,000 dedicated server, and the hosting company has to recoup that expense, a contract makes sense. But requiring a 6 month contract on a $20 hosting account is just plain crazy, in my opinion.

I know - everyone has the right to run their business however they see fit - but really.

I commend ValueWeb for doing the right thing on this one, and wish that all web hosts would follow suit. Contrary to popular belief, there'd be a lot *less* customer turn-over if hosts made life easier for their clients, not harder. I think that a lot of hosts think that the harder they make it for a customer to leave, the less likely the customer is to go elsewhere. I think that's flawed.

OK... wow...

I'm sorry for getting off-track here. I guess to get my post on-topic again, here are my top 3 web hosts for service/support (other than my own company, since I certainly don't want "My Opinion" to accuse me of spamming this board, after all):

FutureQuest (www.futurequest.net)
Dynamic Internet Solutions (www.dids.com)
Innerhost (www.innerhost.com)

Of course, I won't disagree with any of the hosts on fiberglassworld's list, either ;)

Thanks,

Jason

------------------
Jason Ellis, CEO
Hosting Solutions, Inc.
www.windowswebhost.com (http://www.windowswebhost.com)
Now offering Fully Managed Servers!

[This message has been edited by Jason Ellis (edited 06-30-2000).]

Geezz!!
I didn't realize this forum was getting so philosophical!! :)

Duster, every time I read your posts, I don't think lawyer, I think Philosopher! (That's a compliment, by the way.)

Sorry, but two more comments before getting back on track with the original question.

If anyone had been reading this forum for as long as some people claim to have but turn around and say it's a sham, they just don't have a clue. Long winded rants without any solutions suggested, are worthless and just take everyone's time. My suggestion --don't demonstrate your ignorance.

I don't consider myself a veteran in these forums, at least not compared to good folks like Annette, Duster, BC, and some others my failing memory can't remember. They are wise and have very good and useful information that has helped many-a-people. Thanks to them for that!

(stepping down off the soap box...)

BACK to the question that started this whole thing. Thanks, Annette (I was on vacation so I couldn't respond before this thread hit the deep end), and yes, I do recommend Veoweb.net, even though I've only been with them for about 2.5 months, and tested their customer service/support for about a month or more before that.

I've also heard good things about Annette's place, and some others which again, I can't seem to remember.
A similar question was asked a little while ago in here. Here's the link to that thread:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000316.html
Another one you might check out is Rietta Solutions, they were the one mentioned above that actually changed their site based on input from this forum.

Well I think that's enough wind for a while, good luck!

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tk
------
Whoops! There goes another $.02!

[This message has been edited by tk (edited 07-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tk (edited 07-07-2000).]

Thanks, tk, I do think of myself as a practical philosopher at times. One of the things I instinctively knew long ago was the benefit of several different perspectives, including beginners. In fct, I have often suggested to software companies that they have beginners read their manuals and use their programs. If the beginners have a question and can't figure it out, more work is needed.

Their input can be just as valuable as anyone else's and they may think of questions to ask that others take for granted as abvious. However, it it were that obvious, there may be no reason to wonder.

As far as demonstration of ignorance, I agree. However, some people are just too dumb to realize they are so ignorant. There was an articel in the NY TImes about this a while ago. You have to regsiter to see it. Basically, it says that some people are just too stupid to realize they are stupid.
http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/health/011800hth-behavior-incompetents.html

You can see plenty of evidence of that on many discussion boards on most any topic. We've seen it here too.

Well to keep things on topic, i'll throw in some hosts.
http://www.olm.net/ http://www.jumpline.com/ http://www.webcom.com/ (Haven't used them after being bought by Verio.)

Dear Smart Guys and Experts,

What about a JDPower-table for Webhosters? This should not be difficult, especially with a lot of smart guys and experts like yourselves.

I am experiencing a terrible time with my webhosting-company at the moment and would just like the Learner choose the right one.

gerard@kroese.worldonline.co.uk - Owner of 65 domain names

Gerard,

While many would appreciate simple guides to finding suitable hosts, the whole issue is really too complex for simple answers. Individual needs vary, as do budgets, there are differences between hobbyists' sites and business sites, and ongoing personalized service is important to some.

As if all that wasn't enough, service can change rapidly. FOr instance, Interland was chosen by PC Magazine last year as an Editor's Choice. Since then, they are to be avoided for a lot of resons, not the least of which is that they take no actions against spammers on their system. I was spammed two weeks ago by http://lightspeedmarketing.com/, which is hosted on Interland. The site is not just a spammer, they are devoted to selling spamware. Despite having reported it to Interland twice, even quoting their policies against spam on the second report, the site is still up at this very minute.

Things change. Most computer things change rapidly. Any kind of guide such as you seek will be out of date very soon after it is released.


[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 07-13-2000).]

Dear Duster,

I do know that things change over the years. But the way the webhosing-business is going - just look at this forum - is that it ends up getting a bad name. I think that a lot of webhosting-companies are afraid for such reports and rather not join in a research/idea like JD Power. Not more bad press about the Internet?

The problem is that genuine people with no IT-knowledge, like Learner and myself, get ripped off ($50 set-up charges, $20/month, and a downtime in first 45 days - 55 hours). And where can we go to? What can we do about it? The webhosting companies than tell us to f**k off (I apologise for the language) and go somewhere else (again $50 set-up charges, loss of income, waste of time, etc.). It looks like a never-ending story.

In addition to your remarks that things change . Cars also change - new design, new services - so I do not really see one reason why it is not possible. JD Power also measures over several years and not just one year. In the US (more than over here in Europe) you have had the Internet for years now and it must be possible to check the various services of the various webhosting companies.

So Duster, I do not totally agree with yourself.

Gerard Kroese
gerard@kroese.worldonline.co.uk

Gerard,

You don't have to agree, and that doesn't change the validity of what I said.

Hosting companies aren't at all like cars and they change much faster. Because of the cost of redesign and tooling, most car models are used 3-5 years with only minor cosmetic changes in between. Even when a new model debuts, it may not be very different from its predecessor (though it will look different).

Also, the companies that make the cars have reputations established over years. For instance, based on past performance, I would have no hesitation in buying or recommending a Honda or Toyota, even if it was the first year model.

Nevertheless, cars are things. They are concrete and tangible. Web hosting companies are services. For the most part, they are intangible. Even if you own your own server and have it co-located, a major part of the business is still intangible.

Computers change much more rapidly than cars and most anything else. The hardware, the software, all change at a pace few industries (if any) can match. Hosting companies come and go, their service changes, and a good choice a few months ago is a company to avoid today and forever.

Interland is one of those. It went from a PC Magazine Editor's Choice to a terrible company that hosts spammers. Some people here have had problems with Burst.net which seemed like a good company in the past. The sites that do rate hosting companies are generally not to be trusted. For the most part, those ratings are paid for with advertising dollars.

Cars don't have attitudes (even if it seems like it at times). People at hosting companies do. Sometimes it's a terrible attitude. Some hosts are rude and tyranical, holding your accoutn hostage, shutting it down like a brat throwing a temper tantrum, while others are polite and incompetent(AIT for instance), though they may still have tantrums.

Regulation is certainly not the answer. It merely gives one a false sense of security, an illusion. There are plenty of regulated industries with substandard service. There are never enough inspectors to go around.

The only practical solution is for people to educate themselves. You're not alone in having been cheated and I do understand your feelings. I've been there and had that done to me. I truly understand.

I had 3 hosts before getting my own dedicated server. The first I have no complaints about. I left because I needed a virtual server account in order to host customers' domains in my server space. I came across AIT (aitcom.net) and they had some attractive plans and a very informative site. You can read about my experiences with them elsewhere on this site, including a review I left at hostinvestigator.com

At the end, they ended up disabling my paid up account simply because I complained to them about their service (that tantrum I mentioned earlier). I had already transferred all my customers to my next host and had only my domain remaining, an informational resource. It was shut down for a couple of days untiul the DNS transer took effect. Had any of my customers been affected, I would have sued their pants off and sought others for a class action suit. They had no right to terminate my account.

Anyway, my point (I do have one) is that it only took that one time to teach me that I had better be much more selective and learn the truth about companies and pick a good one. Long before I left AIT, I had begun educating myself about hosting companies. I knew I had to leave AIT and was looking for a suitable company. I just didn't want to make a hasty move and choose another bad one.

My third one was okay, and they did negotiate a pretty good deal for me. If they had a control panel, it would eliminate most of the problems I have had with them (mostly things like e-mail accounts not being added in a timely manner, being slow to add things that most control panels can take care of, etc.) I wouldn't recommend them, but I don't berate them much either, I consider them mediocre overall. Incidentally, they are in the top 5 of most of the host rating sites.

I came across this site and scriptkeeper.com earlier this year in the course of my investigation looking for a dedicated server. Even though I've had it for about two months now, I continue to post here for several reasons. I've learned more, including about other resources, I enjoy sharing information and discussing things with many of the people here, and I've been able to help some people along the way.

In fact, I took much of the information I had, added to it, and put it on my server site to help others. You can see it at http://techcellence.net Just be sure to select the right side menu.

In summary, it just doesn't seem practical to have a guide like you suggest. I would have like one too when I was looking for a replacement host. However, the more I checked out the host rating sites, the more I uncovered about the lies and dirty tricks in this industry.

I don't believe an entire iundustry can get a bad name from the disreputable companies in it, even if they happen to be a majority. Are all car dealers or attorneys bad because some of them are? Just tonight, there was a priest on the news arrested for seeking sex from a young boy. Others ahve been arrested for fondling or molesting children. Does that mean all priests are perverts and all religion has a bad name?

Whatever your profession, I'll bet there are some people in it who are no credit to it. Does that mean you can't be trusted?

There are reputable and trustworthy companies in web hosting. You just have to do some research, including, but not limited to, using the resources and information avaiable on this site, and others.

I frequently see people asking for a good host and not giving a clue as to their needs. Nobody can help those peopple. They have to be more specific and do their homework. It's really the only way to pick a good host (one that is good for you, which may be differnt than one who is good for someone else).

Dear Duster,

That was exactly the information people like Learner and myself are looking for. Stories like that. We (IT-IDIOTS) feel that we are talking for a ride as we do not have a clue what we are doing. But on the other side, I feel that we should not have to do massive research into webhosting as we should be able concentrate on other issues. Webhosting companies get paid well enough to do their job. (If not, they should change their prices.)

For instance, my websites are simple informational websites (Allshopsineurope.com, Shopsineurope.com) with each being about 10-15MB and requiring 4 e-mail accounts. How difficult can that be to host?

Anyway, thanks for taking time to answer to an IT-idiot as I have read some of your remarks in other columns about unregistered users like myself. I hope that my experience with webhosters in the future will be better. This was my first eexperience with a webhosting company and if even Experts like yourself get screwd 3 times, I better wise up!

Thanks and thanks to WebHostingTalk.com for taking up their space.

Gerard Kroese
gerard@kroese.worldonline.co.uk

Dear Gerard,

You're off on several points. First, you (and others) are not IT-IDIOTS. You might be uninformed of some things, and that is quite a different thing than being an idiot. After all, is it idiotic to believe that a company will actually provide the services they advertise on their web site? (Some here would say "yes" or "maybe", and that's another story). Generally, no. We consider most businesses will do what they promise. Unfortunately, the relative anonymity of web hosting, along with the usual remoteness of the company, allows them to abuse customers and treat us with impunity.

It also allows the fraudulent to promulgate and deceive others easily. You can read some of the other posts here and discover disreputable companies that have several names, all leading back to the same charlatans.

Education and research to avoid them is truly the only answer.

You would be an idiot if you didn't learn from your experiences, and that clearly is not the case. Your being here in search of a reputable host indicates that.

I was only abused by one company, not three. That was all it took to teach me I had better educate myself so it wouldn't happen again. Those who do not learn from the past will be condemned to repeat it. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

There is nothing difficult about hosting the types of accounts you have. The only demanding part is finding a reputable host for them. Be comforted in knowing there are lots of good choices, and you'll find many participate here.

Dear Duster,

Perhaps you have any suggestions how to pull my websites away from my current webhoster? I am afraid that it will take forever to move the website, including primary/secondary server/IP etc., away from one and moving it to another. I expect that my current webhosting company will try to screw me (even more).

There are so many webhosters. Via Yahoo.co.uk, I found more than 1,380 listed?!? Frightening!

I am still an IT-idiot, whatever you come up with!

Gerard Kroese
gerard@kroese.worldonline.co.uk

Gerard,

What you do is make your selection of a new host, move your files, get set up at the new location, and then submit the change in servers through your registrar.

I expect that my current webhosting company will try to screw me (even more).


Some will, and there have been posts attesting to it. That's one of the reasons you do it without letting your present host know about it. At most, they can disrupt your site for about 48 hours by shutting down your present site once you submit the transfer. That happened to someone at http://www.scriptkeeper.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001024.html

I've got detailed instructions on how to move a site on my server site. You should have copies of your files. However, even if you don't (and you wouldn't be the first person whose accopunt was held hostage), there are ways you can retrieve your files (principally html pages and images) through http.

You might even find some smaller hosts that specialize in personalized service that might transfer your files for you. The main thing is to choose the right host for your needs. They are simple enough from a technical standpoint. It just sounds like you need a host that has information to help you learn more and make the most of being on the Internet without you having to be an expert.

After all, you are probably busy enough running your business without having to learn ours.

Dear Duster,

I went to your website and it was full of good, simple information (I could even understand it) which Learner and myself need - and probably a lot of other people who do not know WebHostingTalk.

That was my main point, I do not want to waste time searching around for webhosters. After all, you cannot to be a specialist in everything. I am now off to buy a car and I have my JD Power-table with me! (Little joke.)

Thanks again and thanks again to WebHostingTalk.com for their space.

Gerard Kroese
gerard@kroese.worldonline.co.uk