if you have... could you please explain the process you went thru to do it? please dont refer me to a website telling how to do it.. unless that is the process you followed.... but resource sites are ok


i am looking to patent something and would like to know the process

thanks

I haven't patented anything myself, but know a couple people that have.

Basic process:

1)Check the patent office for an existing patent (longest process)
2)Apply for patent
3)Patent office rechecks for an existing patent
4)Patent is approved.

Recommend you talk to a patent/trademark lawyer ;)

thats the thing... i would rather not talk to a lawyer yet.. because i dont want them stealing my idea... not that it is the greates idea... but i think it would go...

thats why i would like personal experience... and by the way.. does anyone know the costs of patenting something

Originally posted by akash
Recommend you talk to a patent/trademark lawyer ;)
Best advice you could possibly take. Years ago I was going to apply for a patent on an idea. You can try to do it yourself, but it's a very complicated process. I know a few people who tried to do it themselves in order to save money on a patent lawyer or agent. It ended up being very frustrating and far more expensive than if they just got the professional assistance to begin with.

There are many "sticky" points through the application process where if you do not do things just right you will be rejected. That eats up a few months every attempt. Not to mention the application fee that goes down the drain. Then you have to start over.

Best advice - bite the bullet - look up a patent lawyer/agent in your area and hand everything over and let them do what they do best.

Vito

Patent lawyers are required to swear by the basic principles of NDAs - have yours sign it before you even talk to him about it. It'd be too big of a risk as they could face criminal charges if they happen to steal your idea

edit: http://www.uspto.gov/ Has links to the necessary forms, as well as Patent attorneys (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/roster/index.html)

I don't think you have to worry about them stealing your idea. They have too much to lose if they ever get caught. But here's an idea if you're really worried. Write down your idea in detail. Then send it to yourself via registered mail. This will provide a date as to when you sent it. But when you receive it, don't open it. Leave it sealed. If you ever have to prove that the idea was yours to begin with, you can provide a time-stamped unopened package that contains the details of your idea.

Makes sense?

Vito

well that is what i was wondering, because i had a friend get his idea stolen by a lawyer and the lawyer actually produced the product and is now marketing it and making money off of it... BUT how do you prove you had the idea first (besides that paper i guess?)

If you don't have any phsyical evidence that you thought of the idea first, then it'll be your word against the lawyers - so the more "eyewitnesses" you have the better your case will be. A criminal case without physical evidence is out of the question, so a civil case will be your only option. In a civil case, the idea of "innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist", so you just have to convice the judge/jury that the majority of the evidence leads to one conclusion or another.

disclaimer: I'm not even a paralegal yet so always talk to a good lawyer before doing anything major ;)

vito i have heard of that idea, but the thing is, i have heard of people snail mainlling themselves an empty envelope (left open) and then they may put whatever they want in it after it has been timestamped.

is that different with registered mail?

but yeah i see what you are saying... and wout it help to have the document notarized directly prior to sending?

Well, instead of mailing in a regular envelope, send yourself all the documents in a Fedex pouch. They always seal the Fedex Pak before shipping.

Problem solved.

Vito

haha.. there we go... i may just do that!

now here is a question... what will that serve in court or wherever... since i dont have an actual patent... i mean that is like a 'home patent' if you ask me... and then everyone would do it and not pay the gov the patent fees... so if someone does end up with my idea... and they beat me to the patent... but i still have the packatge with details.. then how will that help...

do you see what i am saying?


also... does anyone know where i can get like a legal doc, for like someone to sign if i show them my idea... that they will not steal it... for example... if i want to ask someone to sponsor me in getting the patent, and marketing the product.. how could i force them to not steal my idea?

Akash are you going to school to be a lawyer? Just wondering because you added that yet in there.

I suppose you could first talk to a couple of patent agents to see what they say. Usually your first consult is free. If you are still not convinced, go to http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm and figure out exactly which type of patent you need. Then take the time and send in an application (and fee) to the PTO. My understanding (and I'm not an authority) is that the idea is registered the day they stamp it as received in their office. I guess even if the app is wrong and needs to be resubmitted, they have receipt of the original document.

But again, I am not an expert. You may want to pick up the phone and call the PTO ( 800-786-9199 ) and get more info.

Vito

Thanks vito, i will check them out... it is so hard to find info on a government website.. i swear...


thanks to all.. and keep more info comeing if yall can

Originally posted by inogenius
Akash are you going to school to be a lawyer? Just wondering because you added that yet in there.

Not a lawyer exactly - i'm in the middle of a business laws/ethics program - I've got free time on my hands so i figured it might go along pretty good with my other business-related programs i'm taking. Having a background in law helps a bit in the business world :)

Hopefully I'll be done in a few years and be able to file those patents :D

I recall a few years ago calling them. They are actually quite helpful over the phone. It takes a while to get through (expect to be on hold for a while). But hey, it's toll free... :D

Just put it on speaker phone and go about your work. When they pick up, they pick up.

Advice: Prepare a list of concise questions you want to ask. They are very busy and have no patience for someone who hums and hahs on the phone. They will get rid of you quickly if you annoy them with nonsense. Be to the point, ask direct questions, everyone's happy.

Good luck. And when you make your 3rd million from the idea, don't forget your friends at WHT... :beer:

Vito

well... one more question... what if it is in the patent database... under a very very general term.. making that patent cover my idea... yet it is not totally the same.. because the way of the way i wish to construct it and use it...

its kinda like knock-offs you would see at walmart.. you have your name brans (such as tylenol) and knock offs (such as equate)... i hope you know what i mean...


and if i do eventually patent, construct, and market it... i will surely give you the product for free... (vito and akash, as they have been the most helpful) heck! it may take so long.. akash could be registering my patent... haha

I know there have been a couple instances where a minor difference can be judged a "unique" product at the USPTO, BUT (big but), it may not hold up in court if the "original" patent holder takes it to court.

Case in point: Xerox vs. Palm (3Com). Basically, Xerox patented a system of character recognition called Unistrokes. Palm has been using their "Grafitti" since the beginning of time (not exactly). But if you click the link below, you'll notice that there are a couple minor differences between the two. Xerox said it was too similar, and US federal court agreed. Click the link for the most recent twist in the story, PIC has more articles about this also :)

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5038

[*vito scurries off to make room in his living room/garage/basement for the imminent delivery of the free product supplied by theqase...*]

I just need to know - is it bigger than a breadbox??? :confused:

Vito

no. and that is all that i can say.

holy...! $750.00 filing fee!!!


ohh man... that is a huge fee.... i hope i can convince someone to sponsor me....

2 words: Venture Capitalists

explain please?...

Basically a group of people with lots of money and willing to take the risk to financially support your product in return for a portion of whatever profits there may be. Don't know of any off hand, and wouldn't be able to tell you where to find them.

ah. yeah i figured they would need a portion of my proffit... but hey... it would be worth it if my product actually sells you know

You can get the interest of VCs but generally in order to do so you need to have a business plan developed. Something concrete down on paper. It's not always the case, but it sure helps. They understand numbers. So you have to speak their language...

Vito

Originally posted by theqase
holy...! $750.00 filing fee!!!
Wow, that's gone up over the years. That's much higher than I remember. So imagine trying to submit the app yourself and then you screw up and/or miss something crucial. Imagine them telling you that you need to do it all over again. :angry: :bawling: :smash:

Sometimes paying for the patent lawyer/agent to start with can be the cheapest way in the long run...

Vito

Vito:

Take it from someone who had to do the research on this: the old sealed envelope trick carries no legal weight whatsoever.

Also, the patent application fee for a small entity (which I assume applies to this case) is $375, not $750.

Hi Steve:

Yes, $375 sure does seem closer to what I remember.

The envelope trick does not work??? :mad: :mad: :smash:

I'd love to know how they argue against that. If you ever come across a link to an explanation for it, please send it my way. :agree:

Vito

I strongly encourage you to read "Secrets From an Inventor's Notebook" by Maurice Kanbar. (What? A book? What's that? :) ) He is an accomplished inventor and recently patented SKYY vodka for its distilling process.

Even if you don't plan to patent anything, its a great read. You can probably finish it in a couple of hours.

He explains a lot about the process, and not just about how to patent something, but also why and how to manage your ideas.

Vito:

http://www.inventionconvention.com/ncio/specialreport/002.html

Also, the bottom of:

http://www.lawnotes.com/patent/inv_date.html

Misconceptions About Proving Invention Dates
Some people erroneously believe that, if an inventor mails himself a letter containing a description of the invention, that provides legal protection for the invention. That is incorrect -- the postmark on the sealed envelope provides evidence only of the date on which the contents of the letter were mailed. In most situations, such a letter would serve only as evidence of conception, not of reduction to practice. Evidence of conception, however, would not provide any legal protection.

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has a disclosure document program that permits inventors to mail in a written disclosure of their inventions. This, too, serves only as evidence of conception, not of reduction to practice, and does not provide any legal protection in and of itself.

Very nice, Steve. Thank you.

Geez, there's alot of wisdom in this place we call WHT... :beer:

Vito

well, i talked to some people at work today, one person who is in the middle for filing for a patent. he said that it has taken about a year already... and he is only patent pending. He told me that he has invested about $2000 dollars for searches, lawyers, drawings and the actual filing fee. and then later he will have to pay to manufacture his product.

now that i see how much it may cost... it makes me sit down and really wonder, if my idea is all that great after all. I personally (from my research) believe that this 'idea' of mine, is indeed unique... i even have a computer model (needs changed as i have improved the idea) that i am prepared to show the lawyer....

now i guess i must decide whether it is worth the money... and if i will sell enough to break even

--- and yeah, i thought that the envelope thing didnt work

In the book that I mentioned earlier, the author mentions how you can try to take your product to market before patenting it.

This way, you can hopefully generate some income and use that to fund the expense of the patent. You can file for a patent up to one year after you first sell or disclose your invention.

This is obviously a risk, but the option is out there.

how much is that book - i am too lazy to look it up... just if you know off hand...

there are indeed some risks to that.. but advantaeges too.. because if it doesnt sell, then there is no reason to waste the money patenting it... but then the idea could be gone forever...

another thing is.. is like you say... once it is introduced to the public you only have 1 year to get the patent... or you will never get the patent.... that could cause problems too.

too much thinking and not enough money

Pretty cheap, around $10
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0142000566/qid=1046304668/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-0731974-5400715?v=glance&s=books

You should also look into a "provisional patent" which will give you 12 months of protection at a reasonable cost.