Can you explain the differences between Plesk and WHM/CPanel? Also, a live Demo of Plesk would be nice.

Thanks - Brian



<<MOD NOTE:>>
This thread was created from a thread in the Advertsing Forum that tangented off quite a bit. The discussion is great though, it just didn't fit the thread title (an ad for Catalog's services)...
<</MOD NOTE>>

I'm not exactly sure of the differences, but you can view an online demo of Plesk at:

http://www.plesk.com/products/demo.php

Also, please email me at chenning@catalog.com and I can send you a .pdf about Plesk and its features.

Well, I have had pretty hard time with Plesk...

Fact of the day: Plesk is the worst control panel ever.

4 major reasons

- disable many functions in the client-side such as subdomain and domain creation.
- the heavily edited apache disallows you to install JSP/Java Servlets engine
- same as above disallows flexibility to edit Apache config files.
- ugly interface

Jeez. A Must Avoid.

I disagree. PLESK is the best CP ever, as it's stable and actually works all the time. It is also good because it runs on multiple OS's and with the planned upgrades, I'm sure it will lead the market in no time.

Sharpnet, you should answer the points raised by Entemedia that make Plesk the worst ever. If what he is saying is true, I can't buy what you're saying that Plesk is the best CP ever. Making Plesk run on many platforms won't make it the best CP. Personally I think CPanel is better on the business side because it allow you automatic creation of Reseller accounts. Plesk cannot do this.

I would say that either one could fit your needs, depending on what those are.

As for Plesk, it is a very stable product and many of our customers love it. I am sure C Panel customers love their product as well.

At any rate, we have some great servers and you can get them with or without Plesk, and you can add cpanel to them if you wish (you need to contact DarkOrb for licensing).

I still feel Ensim is aweful.
- Only 1 MySQL account can be made for each account (u have to manually add them after that).
- Cannot upgrade PHP/Apache as it will mess up Ensim
- VERY slow to use.
- Majordemo (or whatever it is called) does not work.
- Live stats are poor compared to others out there.
- Cannot limit account bandwidth

Plesk is OK - it can do most things u need to do - but again, it is a little slow.

--James

Fact of the day (another one)

Ensim and Plesk are both stinky if you want to compare them to Cpanel. Just look at their disadvantages:

1) Unable to modify templates or layouts other than the logo.
2) Very limited environment disallowing flexibility.
3) Heavily modified Apache screws up software such as Jserv and other mods
4) As wildwayz says, they also apply to Plesk. So very inconvenient when you want to add additional databases.
5) Expensive licensing - Ensim is about $1000 I believe and Plesk is similiar

To conclude, there are many other control panels that are much better than those 2 stinky products. CPanel, SmartHostingController (BokSoft), Alabanza, and more.

Thank you.

Depends on what you want to pay. Cpanel is not cheap and runs $150/month. Plesk on our servers comes for free.

Cpanel is not exactly great.

Let do the 4 reasons :D
1) Very expensive, you could easily get another server for the licensing fees. In turn this cost must be passed onto the clients. If you run multiple servers you would be better hiring someone to write one for you, you should would be financially better within a year.
2) Cpanel/WHM is meant to be a complete solution like Plesk. In my opinion cpanel installations are poor. The default security model is terrible having all sites run under nobody.nobody means users have to chmod files to 755 in order to run, hence meaning anyone else on the server can read your files, if you run mySQL and your username/password is inside you php file (such as vbulletin config.php) or inside a perl script then any user could then read/write to your database. Credit cards???
3) The control panel layout is very slow to load, hasn't seen any fast skins yet.
4) mySQL configuration isn't optimized. It is set with the default options which would better suit a 486dx rather than a pentium II,III or III.
5) Apache isn't optimized, infact mod_perl and mod_php are attached using the DSO (dynamic shared object) - very yucky, rather than compiling them directly into the core. Since cpanel/whm installs the above you would expect much better.
6) As previously acknowledged by another forum user and myself, the statistics are way off. This may just be for sites like Vbulletin running php - not too sure, but it isn't good anyways.
7) Whenever I've used a cpanel/whm server (4 so far) the source / source configuration for apache,mysql etc... can't be found which makes it a bitch if you wanna upgrade (or make a fast apache) without waiting for cpanel/whm to do.

Okay that's 7 and there a few more, but I can't be bothered. Its hot and I need a drink :rolleyes:

Originally posted by WildWayz
I still feel Ensim is aweful.
- Only 1 MySQL account can be made for each account (u have to manually add them after that).
- Cannot upgrade PHP/Apache as it will mess up Ensim
- VERY slow to use.
- Majordemo (or whatever it is called) does not work.
- Live stats are poor compared to others out there.
- Cannot limit account bandwidth

Plesk is OK - it can do most things u need to do - but again, it is a little slow.

--James

Lets see...

1) 1 MySQL Account per domain is not unusual. How many times are you going to have more than one MySQL database per customer? Charge the customer and suck it up and add a second or third database. It is all available in the GUI. I'll enter a feature request for you.

2) You can upgrade PHP/Apache if you do it right. Don't try it if you are not willing to follow instructions and stay with in the confines of the system.

3) Slow? Can you be specific?

4) Majordomo does work.. What do you have an issue with?

5) Can you suggest a better stats package that will keep the costs down? Our stats package is based on Analog. You can still run WEBtrends, Webalizer etc.. No one is stopping you.

6) Bandwidth limiting is coming in a future release.

Matthew Feinberg
Web Hosting Architect
Ensim Corp.

Originally posted by Entemedia
Fact of the day (another one)

Ensim and Plesk are both stinky if you want to compare them to Cpanel. Just look at their disadvantages:

1) Unable to modify templates or layouts other than the logo.
2) Very limited environment disallowing flexibility.
3) Heavily modified Apache screws up software such as Jserv and other mods
4) As wildwayz says, they also apply to Plesk. So very inconvenient when you want to add additional databases.
5) Expensive licensing - Ensim is about $1000 I believe and Plesk is similiar

To conclude, there are many other control panels that are much better than those 2 stinky products. CPanel, SmartHostingController (BokSoft), Alabanza, and more.

Thank you.

I don't know where you get your information??!!

Here are the facts.. Going to a control panel means you must give up some control over the back end operations. This is required to provide a reliable system. Good control panels will take over the routine tasks of managing the configuration files. This is true for ANY control panel system you choose. Most of these control panels are not designed for the EXPERT in mind. They are designed for the average and below average (technical ability) or newbie hoster.

Commercial software like Ensim or Plesk need to maintain a corporate identity, this is why there is limited ability to "skin" the interfaces.

If you take the time to learn the control panels you will see that if you follow some rules then you can do things like update php or add java etc..

As far as pricing?? Where do you get your information? You are way off on both Ensim and Plesk Prices.

All the control panel vendors have the same issues. You can not please every hoster under the sun. It will take some time but the best control panel will be the one that is still around 4 or 5 years from now, regardless of the cost or flexibility.

Thank you for your feedback. I'm sure it will be put to good use.

Matthew Feinberg
Web Hosting Architect
Ensim Corp.

MattF... your analysis sounds very realistic. i am sure you did investigate before stating such comments. Well your points kinda pull me back as I really loved the Cpanel for their features. Also many hosts use it so I think it shouldn't be a problem or they won't be using it right?

Actually CPanel is my top choice - I just can't find others that are better. Yes Ensim and Plesk are professional products, but some of their offerings simply cannot meet some of our needs. I certainly agreed with the commercial identity point, but web hosting companies need to have their company identity too.

I already purchased a CPanel license from Burst.net, I guess I would just have to go with them. We will see how things go. So far they provide good support and everything runs fine. as for the security issue, we will monitor closely to clients' activities.

Thank you for your advices.

Originally posted by ensim-matt


Lets see...

1) 1 MySQL Account per domain is not unusual. How many times are you going to have more than one MySQL database per customer? Charge the customer and suck it up and add a second or third database. It is all available in the GUI. I'll enter a feature request for you.

2) You can upgrade PHP/Apache if you do it right. Don't try it if you are not willing to follow instructions and stay with in the confines of the system.

3) Slow? Can you be specific?

4) Majordomo does work.. What do you have an issue with?

5) Can you suggest a better stats package that will keep the costs down? Our stats package is based on Analog. You can still run WEBtrends, Webalizer etc.. No one is stopping you.

6) Bandwidth limiting is coming in a future release.

Matthew Feinberg
Web Hosting Architect
Ensim Corp.

Hi Matt - thanks for the reply

1. I tend to use a lot of MySQL databases, and my other server running CPanel, also has a lot of clients using multiple databases.
It would be nice to be able to specify how many databases each client can have.

2. I have been asking my host to install php4.0.5 for the last 2-3 weeks, and each time he tries it on a test machine, Ensim messes up. He has filed many support tickets on how to get it working with Ensim but as of yet is unsuccessful. He even tried installing it from an RPM.

3. Slowness = loading pages. It isn't something that only Ensim suffers from - CPanel's graphical interface and Plesk are the same. Only fast one is Webmin - that flies!

4. Majordomo - I made a mailing list, signed up a test user ie my home email account and tried emailing the list. Nothing - the message vanished.
Also when you make a list, it says in the help

In the List Name field, enter the name of your mailing list (for example, Web Hosters Discussion Group).

But when I enter Moose-Shack List into the List Name field and fill in the other details, I get a window pop up saying

List name contains invalid characters! Please make sure it is an alpha-numeric string in lowercase

So then I change it to moose shack list - still does not work.

In the end, I settled for mooseshack which went through OK, but as I said when I email the list, nothing happens.

5. Better stats package? I quite like CPanel's one.

6. Excellent :)

BTW I am running
Site Administrator 2.4.0-29
Appliance Administrator 2.4.0-29

--James

James.. I'll try and get info for you on updating PHP manually. I'll do it here on one of my systems.
I'll akso have one of my developers look into the Majordomo problems. Email me with your contact information and I'll send you details off list. matthew@ensim.com


Originally posted by WildWayz


Hi Matt - thanks for the reply

1. I tend to use a lot of MySQL databases, and my other server running CPanel, also has a lot of clients using multiple databases.
It would be nice to be able to specify how many databases each client can have.

2. I have been asking my host to install php4.0.5 for the last 2-3 weeks, and each time he tries it on a test machine, Ensim messes up. He has filed many support tickets on how to get it working with Ensim but as of yet is unsuccessful. He even tried installing it from an RPM.

3. Slowness = loading pages. It isn't something that only Ensim suffers from - CPanel's graphical interface and Plesk are the same. Only fast one is Webmin - that flies!

4. Majordomo - I made a mailing list, signed up a test user ie my home email account and tried emailing the list. Nothing - the message vanished.
Also when you make a list, it says in the help

But when I enter Moose-Shack List into the List Name field and fill in the other details, I get a window pop up saying

So then I change it to moose shack list - still does not work.

In the end, I settled for mooseshack which went through OK, but as I said when I email the list, nothing happens.

5. Better stats package? I quite like CPanel's one.

6. Excellent :)

BTW I am running
Site Administrator 2.4.0-29
Appliance Administrator 2.4.0-29

--James

We use ensim for all of our servers and though there are some features I dont like, overall it is a solid product.

1. Cross Platform is cool to have, the same look and feel for Linux and win2k clients.

My biggest problems with ensim is the fact that it lacks a reseller control panel.

Thats my biggest problem. In regards to bandwith monitoring and overall layout I think its quite classy..

I think as innovation takes time, ensim will offer the best bang for the buck.

One thing I dont understand is why the webappliance is different then what comes with server xchange. They should be the same.
In regards to doing some telnet work, I dont really mind, adding a database is easy and telnet is not that complex.

In regards to stats, installing awstats or webalizer will be better then the built in ones that come with ensim, but its not too bad.


I do like cpanel though. Easy interface, good features. For the client though the standard version does look like alabanza, but it can be changed which is cool.

What cpanel lacks is the private server ability that server xchange brings to the table. But it does give you system information and is easy to monitor individual accounts.

Never used Plesk, so wont say anything.

Overall we like ensim, and cpanel and over the next few weeks will offer both and let the client choose.

Joe

Joe, have you ran the Ensim Windows product?

"Cross Platform is cool to have, the same look and feel for Linux and win2k clients. " We have talked to host that have and they said it stinks. It is a definate Beta.

Its still in beta, we havent launched it yet, hopefully in the next week or so.

I hear its pretty solid though

Joe