WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

Here is my story regarding Cavendo.com. I only hope it servers as a warning to any of you thinking of hosting with them, or with AHI.net.

This story is 100% true, and I can vouch for everything I state.

Approximately 10 weeks ago I signed up with Cavendo.com as a reseller. My account was set up reasonable quickly, and I was able to upload my site with relative ease. I requested an NT box, and they gave me a UNIX one, and although the website stated a price of $29.95. and I authorized a charge to my credit card for that amount, I received an email invoice for $49.95. But my site was up and running, and I could sort out those minor details afterwards.

Also, my "welcome" email didn't contain any information regarding how to set up extra domains on my reseller account, so it seems I just had a regular account (which I could have bought from them for under $8).

A quick phonecall to their offices to ask about the reseller facilities was fruitless. It's just a voicemail system. They didn't call back the next day, despite their message which said "all our customer representatives are busy with other clients, leave your details and we will call you back shortly". So I called them the next day. Still, nothing. This went on for 6 weeks. Nothing. I'm paying for a reseller account, but not receiving it. Another two weeks, and we're into a couple of months of making numerous phonecalls (thanks God for 1-800 numbers), still with not one peep out of them.

Meanwhile I had been emailing their billing department, and after a lengthy wait I received an email from someone which simply said "you have not been overcharged", despite this email being quoted above the original invoice message plainly stating the overcharged amount.

The one thing I found excellent about them was the tech support. OK, maybe some lengthy waiting periods, but 99% of the time a satisfactory answer or solution was gained. I even phoned the tech support department before I signed up, because I had (and how many of us haven't?) been with hosts who reported 24/7 tech support that doesn't seem to exist. well, it turns out they rent a couple of dedicated servers from ***** and the tech support has nothing to do with Cavendo.

While all this was happening, at least my site was up most of the time, and working, which allowed me to at least continue to make my living while I chased Cavendo about the reseller options and the billing mistake. Then one weekend I didn't receive *any* email. I smelled a rat as I normally receive about 400 per day, and checked my site. None of the forms were working. But no regular mail was reaching me either. It turns out the VAR directory on their server was full, and this stops frontpage forms working, and prevents any mail being delivered to any of the domains on that server. I was told by tech support that I had to speak to Cavendo, make them aware of the VAR directory problem, and ask them to fit a bigger hard drive or free up some space. Of course, I couldn't get hold of them, and they still were not returning phone calls.

In desperation I did some detective work. It turns out that Cavendo is owned by Jonathan Arehart, who apparently is a teenage businessman. Of course, his age is immaterial, as long as he can cope with the responsibilities of being in business. Strangely, the company who has bought out Cavendo shares the same address (Automated Hosting, Inc. Post Office Box 4101
Manassas, VA 20108-0712 United States).

The offices of Cavendo are in Manassas, VA, and there was only one Arehart listed in white pages. So I phoned the number. Spoke to a very nice man who turned out to be Jonathan's father. I explained the situation fully, and made him aware this was a last resort because his son was not returning phonecalls for 8 weeks, and he put Jonathan on the phone. Ina whispering and somewhat embarrassed voice, Jonathan told me he would phone me the next day and sort it out. Guess what? He didn't. The answering machine was on all day, but early evening I managed to get a human being to answer the phone. I spoke to his father again, who called Jonathan. A few moments of silence. Jonathan picked up the phone, heard it was me, and put the phone down without uttering a word. I phoned him again, same thing happened. I tried over and over, and each time it was either engaged for 60 minutes at a time, or he picked up the phone and put it straight down again. Seems he didn't want to speak to clients. Then, I had an email from AHI.net, who is apparently the company who bought out Cavendo. Although on the AHI.net website Jonathan Arehart is listed as Jonathan Arehart, Chairman of the Board of Directors, Chief Executive Officer. They stated I had breached their terms of service, and not paid my bill (they had my credit card number) and my account was being terminated. After a few more phonecalls I spoke to another human being. It was his mother, who was an extremely nice lady. By this time my site had been gone for 8 hours or so (if I remember correctly) and I was getting desperate. I told her this problem was not going to go away, and that I would not stop trying to contact Jonathan until he actually spoke to me. I just wasn't willing to let this behaviour go. Then I had another email from pr@AHI.net at 4.13pm stating that Jonathan Arehart was nothing to do with Cavendo, and threatening legal action if I persisted to "harass" him. I replied to pr@ahi.net and pointed out I was not harassing him, but I was a client who was merely attempting to get what I had paid for 8 weeks ago. Strangely, after my 4.16pm email disassociating Mr Arehart from Cavendo or the new company (ahi.net), I had an email ( at 6pm) replying to my message sent to pr@ahi.net, from jarehart@ahi.net, bearing the name Jonathan Arehart. So, he was nothing to do with the company, or the person who sent me the harassment email, but somehow he managed to reply to the email I sent to pr@ahi.net. It just said simply
"Hello,

I will be calling within the hour.

Thanks "
So, at 9.30 that evening, he phoned me. He was friendly, pleasant, and apologetic. He promised he would send me details on how to access my reseller privileges, and he moved my site to a less cluttered server so I would actually have the disk space I was paying for. He said in the meantime if I wanted to add domains or subdomains just email them to him and he'll put them on the server for me. I put the phone down feeling relatively confident that he would behave in a slightly more professional manner now. How wrong I was. Two weeks later I had not received all the information promised, nor had he added my subdomains to the server. So, I phoned the home number again, and left a very friendly and polite message on his answering machine stating that seeing as how it took me 8 weeks to track him down, and all the aggravation we had after that time period, I would hope he would keep his word, but it had now been another 2 weeks and I still only had 1 domain on the server. Now we're looking at 10 weeks! Well, that afternoon I received another email from AHI.net stating yet another breach of TOS, and that my account would be deleted at midnight that night (left me about 3 hours for an internic name change). I wrote, and left voice mails simply stating that I accept he does not want me as a client, and that perhaps I was too "high maintenance", and I was going to find a new host. But the least he could do is leave my site on the server while I do so. Give him his due, he did not delete me at midnight, and from what I can see my site is still there.

But please heed my warning, if you sign up with Cavendo.com or AHI.net, you may experience the same frustrating 10 weeks as me. ..

You want my honest opinion of Cavendo? I wouldn’t touch them with yours!

All of this can be substantiated if need be.

What a nightmare.
I would go to my attorney.

Yep, it wasn't much fun. Now it's my task to make sure everyone knows. I am currently submitting my "cavendo" page to as many search engines as I can find.

I am very happy now i have that fantastic dedicated server with 4webspace.com though.

I am currently submitting my "cavendo" page to as many search engines as I can find.

You should also file complaints with the BBB (http://www.bbb.org/complaints/consumerform.html) and Attorney General's offices (http://www.ago.state.al.us/address.cfm?Action=Attorneys). It's only when enough people file complaints that state legal authorities take note and take action.

I would also call the kid's parents again after you have done so, and speak directly to *them*, tell them you have filed these complaints and that, depending on the laws in their state, they could be held legally responsible for the actions of a minor dependent if he is found to be defrauding customers.

1) Do a complete chargeback over TOTAL amount that went out of your account.

2) Write a nice letter and ask for compensation for lost business
due to their non-performance.

3) Get a lawyer, enforce payment, charge them per hour for wasting your time.

I would

GEO
__________________________________________

around the world, ...and today having a break from it all

Hey, looks like they know they suck!
www.cavendosucks.com redirects to ahi.net

I feel for you man! I mean NOT only have you got your server with ***** one of the worlds worst hosts, you are also a client of a client of ***** damn, a double whammy of uncanny bad luck!

Hi guys,

Many thanks for all your advice. Now so many people have mentioned it i am seriously considering the attorney approach. I don't have one at the moment and have steered clear so far because of their reputation and don't want to throw good money after bad. I have only been in the USA for 3 yrs (I am an Englishman) and have little knowledge of the way things work here.

But I am starting to think perhaps I should chase this person.

My main problem as I can see is proving the loss of income was due to him. It seems after several spates of his downtime (one for almost a whole weekend) I disappeared from many of the search engines. It had taken me 2 years of pretty hard work to get some half decent traffic going, now my earnings are down to one sixth of what they previously were.

I know the terms and conditions are usually "no implied warranty, as is" etc., but they probably would not cover his total lack of regard and professionalism.

Of course, these things always happen at completely the wrong time. Things were going well, so we moved into a slightly bigger home (only a rented duplex but hey, we have to start somewhere), and my wife is eight and a half months preggo so no income from her for 12 weeks. Bah! So I'm now going to be working hard on building some major traffic generating links to my site while I wait 8 weeks to get back in the search engines.

Let's see what happens here.

Thank you soo much for all your kind words and advice. It is very much appreciated.

Kindest regards,

Monty.

Originally posted by horoscopes2000
... i am seriously considering the attorney approach. I don't have one at the moment and have steered clear so far because of their reputation and don't want to throw good money after bad...
Well, if by "their reputation" and "bad", you are referring to attorneys, it might be a good time to re-frame your perspective on them.

Lawyers do have a PR problem. There are bad apples out there... (Johnnie Cochran comes to mind...) But while it may be true that the US has a reputation for being a litigious people, the simple fact is that people WILL wrong each other. They WILL breach contracts. They WILL try to take your money without providing the services or goods that they were contracted for.

It may be time to hire one of these hired guns for yourself. Often, the mere *threat* of a lawyer is enough to get action from the offending party. If you've paid for an annual contract, you'll probably break even after considering the lawyer's fees, and do a little good, too -- by teaching the guy that he can't just take your money and not put out. Furthermore, depending on the state you're in, you might be able to sue to recoup your attorney's fees, too. Of course, your lawyer will be able to fill you in on the details there.

Shop around, talk to a few lawyers. Keep talking until you find one who will be willing to go to bat for you and fight for you.

Yes, you are right. There are always going to be people out there who will try to take advantage, and it is time I had someone more "official" on my side.

Luckily, I only paid for one month at a time (I stopped payign annualy to "save money" after a previous ISP of mine went belly up a couple of months after I signed up with them and paid for 12 months - an all to common story from what I hear). I haven't yet had the cc statement to tell me exactly how much they billed me. If they say I owe them money, hopefully it's because they forgot to bill my credit card!

You know you spelled "millenium" incorrectly? It's "millennium." :confused: If you're such a "detective" then why didn’t you bother to check out this company before you got a plan with them?

Why did you bother to harass that guy and spend all this time e-mailing them when you could have just cancelled in the first place?

Deb Suran: Your comment made no sense what-so-ever. You cannot directly sue anyone in a corporation because corporations have something called a corporate "shield."

xtstike: People buy "www.companynamesucks.com" to keep people from putting up defaming information. A smart move.

Horoscopes2000, your story seems stretched and distorted, you didn't even bother to mention whether you got a refund or not.

- Neil Cogen, Esq.

Corporations do not have some sort of mystical "shield", especially if - as I would imagine the case is here, although I'm not going to go dig up the records - the business is not actually incorporated, but is another corporate form. If a minor is listed as an officer of a corporate entity, that minor's guardians can indeed be sued in civil court for any egregious actions by that minor.

People also buy companysucks.com when they know someone is likely to put up a page detailing the nastiness they might have had to face. The story posted thus far is nothing unheard of, at all, unfortunately, especially for those of us who have watched (or been involved in) the True Hosting, or GX Hosting, or (insert name of horrible company here) debacles.

BTW - pointing out spelling errors in posts of people who are not obvious trolls (and therefore not subject to the same rules of etiquette) is poor form. How do you know the level of investigation that went into the choice of that particular host? You don't.

A prudent person would bear in mind that insulting people outright about their command of the facts without a firm grasp of the facts yourself makes you look foolish...

Actually, yes, by your terms corporations do have a "mystical shield." Let me put this in terms you may understand, a consumer of Microsoft cannot sue Bill Gates for having faulty software. The consumer would sue MICROSOFT....MICROSOFT is a separate LEGAL entity.

This is the problem with the United States... people start talking about things and making statements without having any factual validation. I have dealt with Corporations for many years now and I think I know what I'm talking about.

Smart businesses buy domains with their company name and the suffix "sucks." Businesses do this to protect themselves from potential calumnies that may hurt future relations with customers. They don't do this because they know they suck - which makes no sense. Even businesses with the best reputations have these domains.

I only pointed out that spelling error to inform horoscopes that it was incorrect. Personally, I would not want to completely finish and publish my website and find out that everything was misspelled.

As I said above, I have been to law and business school and I have dealt with Corporations for many years. You are the one who looks foolish for you are making statements without having a firm grasp of the factual information.


- Neil Cogen, Esq.

I lived in Brunswick, GA and now live just south of there. There are currently 3 officers of LCP Chemicals, Inc. serving federal prison terms for their actions while officers, furthermore, there are currently standing judgements against these officers of civil damages filed by neighbors of LCP. This tells me that under the right circumstances, and by the way this is consistent with everything I have read about the benefits of incorporation, an officer of a corporation can face civil lawsuit for their actions as an officer.

It depends on the situation.. in this case it seems like the officer was not DIRECTLY responsible and horoscopes should have contacted the other hosting company.

For example; Bill Gates shoots a man.. he will be held responsible. Microsoft sells faulty software to a consumer, the Corporation will be held responsible, not Bill Gates. It all depends on the situation.

Seems he didn't want to speak to clients.

So, I phoned the home number again, and left a very friendly and polite message on his answering machine stating that seeing as how it took me 8 weeks to track him down, and all the aggravation we had after that time period, I would hope he would keep his word, but it had now been another 2 weeks and I still only had 1 domain on the server.

...I feel for this guy... being a business executive myself, having my own customers calling me at my home would not be the most pleasant experience-- after all, your private residence is where you expect to be free and not have to worry about issues back in the office :D -- From the customer standpoint... why didn't you contact the hosting company directly? Going directly to an officer of the company seems like a large step. If the company was hosted by another company, why didn't you contact that company directly for support since they do, in essense, have absolute control over your account...

Just some points to ponder...

Neil Cogen, Esq.? Remind me never to seek your legal advice for anything. You can also save your egoistic pompousity for someone else - it doesn't impress me. Can you understand those terms?

A corporation that is legally incoporated has limited liability for individuals. NOT every coporation out there, and incorporation does not automatically grant this mystical "shield" you presume exists somehow for every action of a corporate officer. Can you find incorporation documents for cavendo.com or the entity listed on a simple WHOIS check? Bother to do a simple WHOIS at all, or were you so intent on blaming someone (horoscopes) for what you see as a lack of investigation or an incorrect contact method with the company that you completely missed all this - talk about not having all the facts in front of you! Had you bothered to read anything at all concerning any of this, you would look less like most of the other members of your profession and more like someone who pays attention to things. Your example about Bill Gates is horribly faulty, as him shooting someone has zero relation to any corporate actions, and is certainly not analogous to the current thread. You also fail to take into account that civil action against a corporate entity is entirely possible in parallel with any criminal action taken against the corporate entity itself.

Since you've missed the entire point about companies taking up companysucks.com domains, I'm going to skip it, along with everything else that might come out of you. I'm not even going to comment on the "Corporations" with a capital c thing (not once, but twice!), but I do thank you for that chuckle.

OK OK OK *puts out flames*

Please keep this thread on track. It doesn't seem to be about who is right or wrong, or filing lawsuits against officers, capital c's, etc.

Further non-thread related posts will simply be removed.

Quick question for Monty: did you ever do a chargeback for the fees you paid, in full or in part? That's usually what gets peoples' attention, or at least puts the whole thing to rest (for you, anyhow). Since you're here in the States, at least that route would be/would have been available to you if you use a US-based credit card company.

Hi Guys,

Well, good lord, I didn't mean to start some kind of flame war here! So, here goes in answer to some of your questions or points :

1. Researching Cavendo.
Yes, in my opinion (at the time) I did quite a lot of research on them. I searched thoroughly on dejanews and could not find one negative post, I looked in all the host directories I knew of at the time and again could not find anything bad about them, I telephoned their support department at various obscure times of the day over a period of one month to see if they really answered the phone 24/7 like they said (sooo many ppl out ther epretend to have 24/7 support so I had to check), and i logged on to their support chat window quite a few times to see if a human being was there or not. I also phoned the sale soffice and they called me back relatively quickly. So, I think I did enough research. Now I know about a few more webhosting directories, and have discovered some hideous stories about Cavendo. I wish I'd read them before.

2. Spelling.
Yes, it came to my attention long after i registered millenium and had a well established site. I have had probably 3 million page views since it was set up, and only one person was ever pedantic enough to send me an email about it. He was rather aggressive and actually wrote 9 or 10 times for some reaosn. So I think one picky person out of all those people isn't too bad. Mastermindz is only the second person ever to mention it. Although, one or two people have told me that nowadays the "one n" and "two n" versions are perfectly acceptable - we see the one n version all over the place if you look hard enough. If I'm honest, I thought i was the only dork in the world who had done this, until I searched all the major search engines to find there are a *lot* of sites out there with the one n spelling. That doesn't make me right of course, but I am not as bothered by it now as I was to begin with. :o)

3. Accountable companies.
I am under the impression that if an officer of a company behaves in a negligent manner that he is actually liable for his mis-doings (?). I am not sure if you didn't read my original post properly, or if I did not express myself well, but it was the owner of the company I had the problems with.

4. Why did I not contact the hosting company?
I did. the hosting company was *****, who housed Cavendo's dedicated server. I phoned them on quite a number of occasions and each time I was told
I had to take it up with Cavendo, and it was nothing to do with them. They were "powerless" etc etc.

5. Why didn't i cancel?
Because I like to think I am fair minded and like to give people a chance. It took a long time deciding to go with Cavendo, and I wanted it to work out. I was giving him the chance to honour his contract.

6. the problem wasn't with the officer.
that's ridiculous. He was the person who was actively avoiding me and refusing to return my phonecalls and emails.

7. why did I "harrass" him?
I do not consider it harrassment to contact the somebody asking them to provide something I had paid for and been asking about for 8 weeks. He was the only person (from what I can see) operating the company, and the buck stops with him. I'm sorry if it irritates you, but if you sell me something and don't deliver, I'm coming after you whether you're at home or at the swimming pool. It irritates a lot of people when they pay for something then get ignored for 8 weeks. .. and nobody even bother saying "well you wouldn't go after the owner of Walmart if you bought a faulty TV would you?" because that would be a really, really, stupid comparison to make. ;o)

8. Private residence.
Yes, your private residence is your home and castle, i agree. there are a lot of "business executives" on this board. I am a business owner but I don't give myself any kind of label. but as a "business executive", if you charged a client for something, gave him a small amount of what he paid for, then ignored him when he repeatedly called your office or emailed you for 8 weeks, would you be entirely surprised if he didn't find another way to contact you, or even turned up on your doorstep? He's lucky it wasn't somebody a little more official contacting him instead of me.

10. I suck.com
i have to agree with mastermindz here. it's sensible to protect yourself against a 15 year old with a grudge. There's not a business in the world who doesn't have one dissatisfied client somewhere in its history. rogue businesses exist, and so do rogue clients.

11. chargeback.
Haven't investigated re chargebacks yet, as I haven't had my final bills through, and wanted to wait until I was confident of the final charge.

I know some business people in this forum may feel for the owner of Cavendo, but I am sure the people on this forum would never dream of treating a client in such a poor manner, and would expect problems if they did.

As for some of the other nit-picking flames in this thread, I think some people didn't read my original post properly. Well, it was rather long....

I can't imagine how anyone could possibly think "poor old Cavendo", or that it wasn't their fault. Perhaps they also say "poor old Hitler", and "Charles Manson is just a poor misunderstood soul". If you pay me money, and I ignore you for 8 weeks, it's my fault whatever excuses I may give you.

I hope this helps clear up some of the questions.

Kindest regards,

Monty.

I must apologise, I completely forgot to thank the members of this board for their support, and for the extremely valuable advice I have received.

So, thank you guys, I really appreciate it.


Sincerely,

Monty

Sorry, Chicken, but I feel that this is related to the post.

<<MOD NOTE:>>
Sorry MasterMindz, but I disagree. This thread is *not* about:
The various forms of corporations.
Whether AHI is, or is not, incorporated.
Lawsuits and company officers.
Capitalization of the word corporation.
<</MOD NOTE>>