(With apologies to Iron Maiden):)

Why does it seem that recently, there have been a huge series of posts basically going as follows::confused:

"I cant reach site at host XXX, are they down?"

"Wheres XXX support?"

"Gee, I posted here and host XXX didnt reply, they suck"

etc etc etc.

I mean, the targets in all these cases have help desks, phone support, their own forums, yet users keep coming here and posting.

Why?

Do these hosts not use their own help desks?
Well, my experience in this same month says yes, they do. I've put in multiple tickets at VO, and gotten replys back in a reasonable period of time, and been mostly satisfied with the replys. Did the same at Weinbar, and had the issue fixed, again in a rasonable timeframe. Hell, I even sent Burst a server quote request and got a support ticket issued for it. :D

Dont they visit their own forums?
I've seen the folks from Vo on here, and on their forums, I've seen Mike Weinbar on his forum, honestly haven't looked at Burst enough to know if they have one so can't comment. I do know the forums at both VO and Weinbar aren't high vol. yet, so maybe aren't swept as regularly as they should, but still, things get answered in a reasonable time period.

So why here? Is WHT the "Support away from Support" for the Web industry? I dunno. I've seen the 3 hosts above try to get the support issue under control. I've watched newbies push all 3 staffs beyond the breaking point. Is the concept of Help-Desk, then Forum, then Phone, then repeat starting at help desk too hard? I realize its incredibly frustrating to have your site/server down for hours and be totally in the dark. Been there, done that, didn't like it.

But, lets be honest. If you're paying $99/mo for your server, do you really have any right to expect 24/7 support with immediate responce? I think theres a reason a RAQ3 is $99/mo at most raq hosts, and the quad processor, gig-o-ram, redundant, hotswap server from hell is $1500+ a mo in the BFNocs. You get the 24/7 support. You get the dedicated staff manning the phones. You get the team of trained Fedekin in the server room to repel invaders. I think the majority of the hosts here do their best to get things done, but is it reasonable to expect the same service for your $24/mo acct as you'd get from your $95/mo BFhosting co? Again, I think not. Hell, the largest ISP near me doesn't offer support on sundays at all, and they got 20k clients. You really expect it from hosts-r-us with 3 colos in VDI? I think most hosts here will agree, for what it would cost them to put 1 managed server into the Exodus NOC, they can put 10 in VDI or NAC, and still have enough left over to make em scream.

So, think for a moment before ya start screaming. You are getting a hell of a bang for your buck with most of these guys. Hiccups happen. Yes, you'd have a more stable site directly hosted at Verio, or Exodus, or UUNet, or the other top tiers. You'd also pay a LOT more, and pay for every little thing. Alot of the guys here are running tight ships, with small staffs who are struggling with a large learning curve. You fire 1 guy, you got a big hole to fill. Exodus fires 20 guys, who notices? Its the reason why Paul and Daniel and Chuck from VO are on here, and why Sean from Burst (though they have I think the largest support team of the 3 I mentioned) and Mike Weinbar are here on a regular basis. Its cuz they are going the extra mile to seek out their customers, to help em. I don't think we have anyone from Exodus post here.

Give em a break. And for gods sake, read your TOS/AUP's, and go thru the proper chanels and wait at least a few hours before coming here to bitch. It makes us cranky, having spent a few 20 hr days going the extra light year for our clients to come here and see someone bashing us, without having bothered to think.

To all the companies I mentioned, no slight was intended, nor any misrepresentation.

Sorry folks, its been a long week for me, and I'm starting to feel the sleep deprevation kick in. I'm off to try n catch a few hours sleep before tackling the joys of Win NT/2000/Linux integration. ><

Peace

Sad fact is that most hosts read this board prob. more than they read support email, or the top dogs of hosts will read this and not the support email because they have staff that does that.

So in all actuality most people prob. get faster support from posting in here, is that right, no... but its how it is..

Right. Seems like in alot of these cases the staffs dropping the ball, while they guys who built the biz are getting frustrated by that. So, can it be fixed? Should we shoot the support techs? :uzi:

Just gets sad when every 3rd post is "gee you said they were good, now they suck", ya know.

peace

Originally posted by Kaith Sutai-Rustaz
(But, lets be honest. If you're paying $99/mo for your server, do you really have any right to expect 24/7 support with immediate responce? Well... yes. If the provider of that $99 server represents it as having the same level of support as any of their other products, or says at all that they offer such support, of course you do have the right to expect it.

You're placing the blame on the wrong party. If a host can't afford to provide full support at the pricing level they offer, they should either increase the price or be clear that "you get what you pay for." It's not the customer's fault.


[Kind of an old thread, but I came across it while doing a search for something else.]

Well this has always bothered me about this forum:rolleyes:
Although I think people try to do their best here in offering free advice, opinions, etc. the overall board consists of HOSTS!

Theres nothing more annoying to me, when coming here, seeing a newbie post for help..that has 0 replies but host chat going on all the way around them:rolleyes:

Support should never be carried out on a public forum. Most all those hosts mentioned have their own support forums. There may be some exceptions to this..but happens here quite frequently.
We had a forum installed...and removed it.

Even with FAQ's or TOS....people still seldom read those, and Ive found they still want that one on one help.
There is NO price tag on customer service OR support!
A cheapie plan, gets the same support, etc.
The key here is--> the company!

Originally posted by JayC
Well... yes. If the provider of that $99 server represents it as having the same level of support as any of their other products, or says at all that they offer such support, of course you do have the right to expect it.

You're placing the blame on the wrong party. If a host can't afford to provide full support at the pricing level they offer, they should either increase the price or be clear that "you get what you pay for." It's not the customer's fault.

It's definitely not the customer's fault, they don't realize that their expectations are unrealistic, because they haven't realized that cheap in web hosting means the same thing as it does everywhere else.

As we've all seen here in the threads whenever pricing is discussed, the prevailing opinion seems to be that cheaper is better, and in order to be what customers consider 'competitive', many hosts offer low, low prices while giving customers the expectation that they will get the same level of service and support as the higher-end hosts, in order to get their business.

If you see cheap in front of the word hosting, that should give you the clue that you are not going to get premium quality, high levels of customer service (i.e. 24/7 tech support), for a low price.

If you walk into a retail operation that sells stuff cheap, say Kmart, you are not going to be waited on by people who are experts at anything, and you are likely to not be waited on at all until you reach the checkout and are passed through on an assembly line. And that is what you expect, you are going there to get whatever you need for as little money as possible. And if there is a problem with the item and you take it to the return counter, expect long waits and hassles. That's what cheap means in retail. Low price, low customer service and support, low quality merchandise.

All customers have different mindsets, and different criteria when looking to purchase goods or services. You can buy a shirt at Kmart, or at Macy's or have it custom made, depending on what type of customer you are and what your needs and budget are.

Not all customers fit into the following categories, generalizations are just that: general...

Some people want the best service, best quality for the lowest prices-they are bargain hunters. They are tough customers and hard to please. They will try to talk you down, get you to waive fees, and negotiate for extras, and they tend to have higher expectations than most customers. They are easily disappointed, they have little 'brand' loyalty and will skip from business to business, always seeking the one who will give them the most for the least. Most companies that target this sector of the market tend to be very impersonal and use rigid policies in order to minimize the nickel and diming this group is known for. They cut costs on customer service and support, keep their overhead low, and 'make it up on volume'

Most customers fall in the middle, they are looking for the best value for their money. They are willing to pay a little more, as long as they get good quality and good service. Be honest with them about what they can expect and they will be loyal to your brand. Lie to them and they are gone in a New York minute. Make them happy and they will give you the greatest gift a customer can: referrals.

The carriage trade customers want the very best service, the very best quality, and are willing to pay a lot for it. Many of these customers believe the more it costs, the better it is, and 'if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it'. Make them cappucino when they come calling, give them a personal account rep who sends them birthday cards and lets them know when something that is perfect for them comes in, and a designer name with plenty of snob appeal like Gucci, Vuitton, or Exodus, and they will happily pay to wear it.

Originally posted by Phoenix
If you walk into a retail operation that sells stuff cheap, say Kmart, you are not going to be waited on by people who are experts at anything, and you are likely to not be waited on at all until you reach the checkout and are passed through on an assembly line. [... ]That's what cheap means in retail. Low price, low customer service and support, low quality merchandise.. Sure. But K-Mart doesn't advertise "great customer service, no lines, no waiting, expert sales clerks!" Almost without exception companies advertising "cheap" hosting present themselves as also offering stellar support. My point is that you can't blame the customer for unrealistic expectations; they are expecting what they are being told they can expect If you see cheap in front of the word hosting, that should give you the clue that you are not going to get premium quality, high levels of customer service (i.e. 24/7 tech support), for a low price. But if you see "cheap" in front of the word hosting, and "great customer service and 24/7 technical support" after it, you do have the right to expect it. If you can't offer it, don't advertise it.

Wow what a great thread.

One thing I always try and express to our dedicated customers is their ability to run the server after setup. I might have missed it but I did not see the term *managed services* in the thread even though the idea was expressed. 24/7 Technical support is offered almost everywhere. But the point that I do not think the customer gets unless it is expressly told to them (even though it is in the TOS/SLA etc) is that the support is not built for people that have no idea what root is let alone be able to work profeciently. It is one thing to call at 3 AM if your server is down for one reason or another. It is a whole different matter when the person calls at 3AM asking where to download this proFTP thingie.

I guess my opinion is the people that have the knowledge should be getting a better price than the people that need someone else (the host) to run their server/business for them.

Best Regards,

Two topics that dovetail nicely

Originally posted by JayC
Almost without exception companies advertising "cheap" hosting present themselves as also offering stellar support. My point is that you can't blame the customer for unrealistic expectations; they are expecting what they are being told they can expect But if you see "cheap" in front of the word hosting, and "great customer service and 24/7 technical support" after it, you do have the right to expect it. If you can't offer it, don't advertise it.

Exactly my point. If a customer is promised something, they have the right to expect it.

The problem is that many companies are ensuring that customer expectations are based on false advertising and dishonest marketing practices.

Hosts should be honest about what type of service they provide to ensure they get the right type of customers with the right expectations. There's nothing wrong with providing cheap hosting, there is a sector of the market looking for just that, but they need to be informed up front what they should expect from their host.

Otherwise, web hosting customers are going to continue to be unhappy transients, moving from hosting provider to hosting provider, believing lie after lie and growing angrier and angrier with web hosts in general. Tarring us all with the same brush as the unscrupulous.


Originally posted by Hostking
24/7 Technical support is offered almost everywhere. But the point that I do not think the customer gets unless it is expressly told to them (even though it is in the TOS/SLA etc) is that the support is not built for people that have no idea what root is let alone be able to work profeciently. It is one thing to call at 3 AM if your server is down for one reason or another. It is a whole different matter when the person calls at 3AM asking where to download this proFTP thingie.

Managed Hosting is something that costs quite a bit extra at most companies, and for companies who need someone to train them or walk them step by step through a process, it's worth it. But one of the biggest issues in the industry is that Technical Support is not clearly defined as it is in Software and Hardware, as well as other industries.

It's just this grey area. I had a customer call me a couple of days ago because he was getting an illegal operation error message from MSIE and he wanted me to give him support for a Microsoft product. I've had people call with printer errors, wanting training on using their particular FTP client, or installing third-party software.

Customers are smarter than a lot of companies think they are, they know they can call us and get support for all sorts of different things, free, when everywhere else asks for a credit card number. What's fun is when you have one engineer who follows the policy of no free support for third-party software or outside connectivity, and another who will give free support for anything to anyone-this second engineer is also setting up false customer expectations.

When you buy a piece of software or hardware, you usually get a set period after you buy it to call and ask questions about it, or for help if you have trouble installing it.

Once that period (usually 30 days) is up, it's 900 numbers or credit card payment in advance per incident.

Most of these companies also separate support into Levels. Level 1 support is pretty basic stuff. Those techs can answer whether or not the server/network, etc is down, do password resets and/or inform the customer where to find the relevant information for troubleshooting or configuration in their manual or on the site. Anything beyond that and you may not be able to get an answer.

Level 2 support engineers are more knowledgeable and more expensive to hire. They are between the front line and the sysadmins and they do much of the 'managed hosting' tasks, as well as training and development. Their services are usually billed on an hourly rate with a minimum.

To help improve the problem:


Be honest with customers about the level of service and support they can receive from you before they sign up for service.
Create a firm support policy with as few grey areas as possible.
Post that policy on your site.
Ensure that your support staff has a copy of the policy.
Make sure all of them adhere to it.

Well put Phoenix.
You would not be looking for a new job would you? I could use your kind of help. :)

Best Regards,

Originally posted by Hostking
Well put Phoenix.
You would not be looking for a new job would you? I could use your kind of help. :)


Thank you for the compliment.

Please feel free to contact me offline, there may be ways in which I can help you out that don't involve leaving my current employ. My address is phoenix@xensei.com