The world has become a global village now.

* Protests in 60 countries
* 1-2 million in London. Biggest peacetime demonstration.
* Hundreds of thousands in Paris, Rome, and Berlin
* Barcelona, Spain: 1.3 million, 200,000 in Seville and 600,000 in Madrid (AP)
* 150,000 in Melbourne, Australia
* 100,000 in NY
* families of the victims of the attack on the World Trade Center also attended
* "Thank You France and Germany"
* 3,000 Jews and Arabs marched together in Tel Aviv, Israel
* one million people marched in the streets of Baghdad
* Syrian capital of Damascus more than 200,000 people marched
* Greenpeace in New Zealand, "No War, Peace Now"
* 5,000 marched through Auckland, Wellington
* South Korea (ally of USA): "Drop Bush, not bombs"
* Malaysia: "No more blood for oil"
* Thailand, 2000 rallied

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2765215.stm

War mongerer on this forum, please stay away from our peaceful protest. Do not spoil this thread. Thank you!

...what is wrong with you...

It has been an awesome day. About 10,000 at the capitol in Austin. Rep. Lloyd Doggett was among the speakers. San Francisco rally was postponed until tomorrow because of Chinese New Year. Let's pray our voices will be heard!!

Originally posted by masood
* 150,000 in Melbourne, Australia
* 100,000 in NY
That's an interesting comparison considering the difference in population of the two cities.

20,000 in Montreal rallied about a week or so ago.

If you don't attack them, they will attack you. Dont forget about sept 11th.

Good for them. We in Spain are a democracy, and they can protest.

But they do not speak for MY COUNTRY. They are a minority opinion.

That is all I have to say. Also your numbers are overblown.

Originally posted by vegs
If you don't attack them, they will attack you. Dont forget about sept 11th.

Sept. 11 was not done by Iraqis. All 19 terrorists were identified as Saudis. An ally of US.

Why don't you catch Laden? US has already bombed Afghanistan.

4.000.000 in Spain.. Impressive.
http://www.abc.es/Guerra/noticia.asp?id=162389&dia=hoy

Not 4,000,000. More like 600,000.

Ok, can't you read spanish?
"Alrededor de cuatro millones de personas se echaron a la calle en toda España"
http://www.abc.es/Guerra/noticia.asp?id=162389&dia=hoy

For those who don't understand spanish, there is say "Roughly 4.000.000 people were in the street of all spain"

You want to go lower? Ok more than 3.000.000 according "El Pais"
Impressive to a country who fully support the attack to irak, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Furtunatelly, you can't call to ABC leftist :)

Wrong pal, the Spanish Police and officials put the numbers more like at 660,000.

Again this isn't your country.

ABC is full of garbage.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030216/ap_on_re_eu/world_war_protests_23

Spanish police gauged the Madrid turnout at 660,000.

108 Peace Slogans For Signs

http://www.peaceonearth.net/108PeaceSlogansForSigns.htm

Many of those slogans are plain stupid not to mention the site.

Masood: 404 Error... and I am thankful I got one. :) Also I am gonna change my signature.

"Spanish police gauged the Madrid turnout at 660,000" There is say MADRID, not Spain, Spain is more than Madrid.

Again, Iraq is not your country, nor is USA. So, I have the same right to talk than you.

"Nearly one million people came out in Rome, where the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has also supported the U.S. position"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13397-2003Feb15.html

"In New York, rally organizers estimated the crowd at up to 500,000 people. City police provided no estimate of the crowd, which stretched 20 blocks deep and two blocks wide"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030216/ap_on_re_eu/world_war_protests_23 ;)

Originally posted by Curtis H.
Many of those slogans are plain stupid not to mention the site.

They are as stupid as the war itself. :)

Jedito: Yes... but the majority or 99% of the protests took place in Madrid. 60,000 Protested in Barcelona from what I heard... making the total 720,000.

Sure if those who support the war went out and protested you would see tens of millions. In the US tens of millions. In Spain up to fifteen or perhaps twenty million. In Italy you will see twenty million aswell.

So what?

Do you think the minority will ever accomplish anything? They are misguided.

Anyways, Spain is not leftist nor is Italy.

Giancarlo your signature says:


"In 1988 Saddam's army razed 5,000 villages and massacred over 180,000 non-Arabs."

So you woke up after 15 years? :D

What happened in the 1990 gulf war?

Originally posted by masood
They are as stupid as the war itself. :)
What war? We are you from?

Masood: What happened in the 1990 Gulf War? Human shields is what happened. Saddam murdered thousands by using human shields. You know that. Don't act like a donkey. :)

I support real peace. You support nothing but a fraud you call "peace".

Originally posted by giancarlo
Spain is not your country so do not talk about it.
Giancarlo you are truly the limit.....:rolleyes:

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
Giancarlo you are truly the limit.....:rolleyes:

I never wrote that. :D

Originally posted by giancarlo
Masood: What happened in the 1990 Gulf War? Human shields is what happened. Saddam murdered thousands by using human shields. You know that. Don't act like a donkey. :)


Giancarlo,

You woke up after 15 Years? :D

Iraq has already been bombed in 1990 for the cruelities it did in 1998. So stop acting like a donkey yourself.

You edited it pretty quick....:eek:

Jedito: Yes... but the majority or 99% of the protests took place in Madrid. 60,000 Protested in Barcelona from what I heard... making the total 720,000.
Where do you got that?
Care to share the source? Because I never read that.


Do you think the minority will ever accomplish anything? They are misguided
You that the people who protest is usually a lot less than those who agree with them. Don't play fool games with me.
Example: How many people was in the Martin Luther King famous march? 250,000 black people, do you think that only 250,000 persons wanted equal rights to white and black people?

Masood:

Iraq has already been bombed in 1990 for the cruelities it did in 1998. So stop acting like a donkey yourself.

I wonder who was the one that prompted those bombings? Could it be the fact that Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries and surface to air missile sites were firing on Coalition aircraft? Yup.

Anon-e-mouse, :D.

Originally posted by giancarlo
I wonder who was the one that prompted those bombings?

US

http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/usiraq80s90s.html

Originally posted by Jedito
Where do you got that?
Care to share the source? Because I never read that.[/b]

Same yahoo source I posted...


You that the people who protest is usually a lot less than those who agree with them. Don't play fool games with me.

Fool games wiht you? You know my country is conservative and not some socialist hellhole like Germany. So being conservative, we support the war. That is how the provincial elections this year, will be swept through by the ruling party.

Example: How many people was in the Martin Luther King famous march? 250,000 black people, do you think that only 250,000 persons wanted equal rights to white and black people?

The civil rights march does not have anything to do with today. I would of supported King and his marchers if I were alive at that time.

Originally posted by masood
US

http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/usiraq80s90s.html

Ummm no... the US was only protecting civilians in the North that would be bombed by the Iraqi Airforce. So please spare me the nonsense and irrelevant data.

más de tres millones los manifestantes en Madrid y Barcelona
Las delegaciones del Gobierno rebajan el número a 660.000 y 350.000 respectivamente (Madrid and Barcelona)
200.000 manifestantes en Sevilla, 70.000 en Cádiz; 100.000 en Las Palmas, entre 50.000 y 200.000 en Oviedo

There you got a better number ;)

Umm no... Jedito, I do not follow the estimates giving by organizers rather the estimates given by police.

Fool games wiht you? You know my country is conservative and not some socialist hellhole like Germany. So being conservative, we support the war.

LOL!! that was a good one. Congrats GC :D

Originally posted by giancarlo
Ummm no... the US was only protecting civilians in the North that would be bombed by the Iraqi Airforce. So please spare me the nonsense and irrelevant data.

That shows you did not even read the US sources in that document. :D

OK, I'm not talking to you anymore, you can go and run your own war thread. Leave us peaceful people alone.

Jedito: That is how it is. We aren't leftist. If we were our economy would be in the doldrums.

Arghh.. there is say that the goverment lowered the number to 660.000 in Madrid 350.000 in Barcelona, 200.000 in Sevilla, 70.000 in Cadiz; 100.000 in Las Palmas, between 50.000 y 200.000 in Oviedo. That's the number that the goverment gave.

Probably is higher.

Originally posted by masood
OK, I'm not talking to you anymore, you can go and run your own war thread. Leave us peaceful people alone.

Last time I check I am fighting for real peace. It is like in WWII, if you want real peace, you would have to pick up a Garand and fight.

The civil rights march does not have anything to do with today. I would of supported King and his marchers if I were alive at that time

You know what I meaned, if you want to play to the game "I understand what I want" then do it, is pretty clear what I said.

Originally posted by Jedito
Arghh.. there is say that the goverment lowered the number to 660.000 in Madrid 350.000 in Barcelona, 200.000 in Sevilla, 70.000 in Cadiz; 100.000 in Las Palmas, between 50.000 y 200.000 in Oviedo. That's the number that the goverment gave.

Probably is higher.

Nonetheless, does not speak for the country.

And is considering why the Spanish government would support the war on a provincial election year. :rolleyes: GEEE LET ME THINK.

Last time I check you were writing in your computer, not fighting.

Originally posted by Jedito
Last time I check you were writing in your computer, not fighting.

Says who? :D Santa Claus?

Jedito,

Do you know how many Spanish soldiers are going for war?

there is no worse blind person than that than does not want to see.

Masood: None the last time that I check, but do not trust in my word, I'm not sure of this.

I'm out of this thread.

Masood, Jedito wouldn't know, none less care.

Since people ignore my text...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/Multimedia/video/segments/vr030211c.ram

Hi, I just got back from the protest here in sydeny! Was a hell of alot of people but it feels good! ;)

My last post, I promise

"3.000 People in Madrid's streets against the ETA"
"Más de tres mil personas se manifiestan en Madrid contra ETA"

I must understand, following the GC mental process, that the people in spain loves the ETA, only 3.000 protesting? puffffffff.. that's not representative.

For those who don't know what the ETA is it, is a terrorist group.

250,000 people protested against ETA a while ago... and several million a few years ago...

Still 250.000 is not representative, right? and the biggest number was 1.500.000 in 1997, but not representative enought either, am I right?

If 3.000.000 is not representative, what we should think of a half of that quantity? that's a tiny minority.

I always thought that the people in Spain were against the ETA, but I must be confused :rolleyes:

Protesting ETA does not have anything to do with the war with Iraq.

Also, people have to work and make a living... they can't just shut a country down to protest something.

Protesting ETA does not have anything to do with the war with Iraq.



You said that 3.000.000 peoples do not represent a country, the biggest march against the ETA was 1.500.000 in 1997, so, that's not representative either in your point of view.


Also, people have to work and make a living... they can't just shut a country down to protest something
Oh, I didn't knew it that today was a holiday in Spain. What are you commemorating guys?
Didn't the marchs against the ETA are saturdays too? :rolleyes:

I never conceded 3 million people actually protested. I put the numbers at much lower. Anyways, it doesn't matter because my country is not some leftist hellhole.

Oh, I didn't knew it that today was a holiday in Spain. What are you commemorating guys?
Didn't the marchs against the ETA are saturdays too?

What are you this brain dead?

Jedito,

Leave this war mongerer. Here's a poem for you to enjoy:

Set to the tune of "If You're Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands"




If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are frisky,
Pakistan is looking shifty,
North Korea is far too risky,
Bomb Iraq.


If allies are not with us, bomb Iraq.
If we think that someone's dissed us, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with more inspections,
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.


It's preemptive nonaggression, bomb Iraq.
To prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq.
They've got weapons we can't see,
And that's all the proof we need,
If they're not there, they sure must be,
Bomb Iraq.


If you never were elected, bomb Iraq.
If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq.
If you think Saddam's gone mad,
With the weapons that he had,
And he tried to kill your dad,
Bomb Iraq.


If corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq.
If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq.
If your politics are sleazy,
And hiding that ain't easy,
And your manhood's getting queasy,
Bomb Iraq.


Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq.
For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq.
Disagree? We'll call it treason,
Let's make war not love this season,
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq

Hello,

It makes me laugh looking at all these people talking of peace and why not to bomb Iraq.

Let me run a scienero past you guys:

We give Suddam another 12 years to do whatever he is doing now.
He buys a nuke from Russia which they are selling a few from or buys the bug which the Russia's designed in the cold war which is SmallPox and Ecol together and radiation proof.
He gives these weapons to terrorists and invades Kuiwat, Turkey and all surrounding countries. What do we do then?

I remember what happend in the Second world war via my Grandad.
The French did nothing.
We did nothing until it was far too late for stop all the killing that did accur afterwards.

Peace cannot be achieved when there are people trying to cause distruction and that is their main aim.
Suddam wants power.
He wants more money.
His son wants to kill and destroy the US and many other US supporting countries including all their people.
He WOULD nuke the US and any other country that supports the US.

I'm all for peace.
I do not want to leave in a world which is constantly fighting.
I also want to live a free live, free to insane rules or different rules.
Free of fear from attacks from groups who want to kill us as a race.

Thats right people they want to kill all non-muslims and muslims who do not follow their cause.
That is the rules they follow.

Suddam is and always well be a WAR MONGER.
He has and will be continuing to play the UN card.
Its a very easy card to play.
The French are too weak right now with their current President.
The Germanys wont back because they can't afford to, their un-employment is very high.
Anyone remember why HILTER got into power? HUH? HUH?

Its very bad that people believe that SUDDAM should be given more time. WHY?
How long does it take to say where all the weapons are?
Does he need time to move then or something?
Does he need time to plan an attack against us?

Are you pre-paired to take the risk that he supplies his BIOLOGICAL and CHEMICAL weapons to groups to use against the WEST?

You believe that the Iraq true people and non suddam people really want to live the way they are now?
The resources allocated to them via the UN and the resolutions set out are being used and abused.

There are also other countries that need to be sorted out via the UN.
Such as Israel and Palistine.
Both should stop with their Terrorist tactics.
They talk of peace and continue to attack each other.
Why cannot Sharron go into talks with the Palistine goverment?
All they want is a place to call their own and a safe place to live.
They have neither of those.

What about the issues in Africa, there are still lots of those.
France isn't exactly doing much good out there.

The UN show its resolve and come to an agreement which is the best for the world and not indiviual parties.
It must decide if its really a world organisation to sort out world matters or a tool for the terrorist and rogue states to use as a "buy more time" gismo.
The UN's hour is here.
Peace cannot be achieve by giving the attackers of peace more time and more room to move.
This is not how it is achieved.

As for the "OIL attack" as its so called.
That is just stupid.
OIL is already provided by many sources and IRAQ is only one of many.
Iraq was once a very rich country and still is but only the goverment see that richs, thus once.
I'm sure if we are allowed to do the right thing Iraq will once again be a free country and safe.

The world is in a state.
Are we strong enough to be united or not?
Can we handle issues or not?
Why can't we handle this issues?

I have lots more where the above came from.
I believe strongly in peace but I do not believe in stupidity.
The right thing isn't always the popular thing however the end result is the wrong thing.

Just my 1million cents.

*Giancarlo shakes his head in dismay on how people can be so misguided*

Leave this war mongerer.

You are the war mongerer. You want this conflict to continue even longer. Shame on you!

Originally posted by giancarlo
You are the war mongerer. You want this conflict to continue even longer. Shame on you!

Ulta chor kotwal ko dantay. :stickout:

Originally posted by masood

Set to the tune of "If You're Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands"

:blush: I found that tune quite amusing.

Everyone has a point of view.
Everyone has a mind of their own, if or not they choice to use it.

However, the right thing is what must be done.
Not in view but by policies.

If you believe in freedom and peace there are things you must do to make sure that is done and kept for the people who want it.
There are people who love war and want war.

A terrorist is a terrorist.
A killer is a killer.

Saddam has ordered mass killings to test his Weapons.
Well should I say the resulted from him testing on his own people.
Much like we did on a select people in the second world war and beyond on a few soliders to test weapons and their results.

There are policies.
While Saddam and his son are in power, peace isn't available in Iraq.
They must be removed from power.
IraQ can then have peace and freedom.

There were 170 folks on our street corners. In 40 mph wind and snow, though, and the population's less than 100K. They're there every Satuarday. I'll join them next week.

Originally posted by Susu
There were 170 folks on our street corners. In 40 mph wind and snow, though, and the population's less than 100K. They're there every Satuarday. I'll join them next week.

Hey,

Good for you.
You go for what you believe in.
I respect that.
However, it seems that the majority who believe in "anti-war" have been taking to the "dark side" by a minority of people who are more on the extreme to say.
These people do sometime act as Terrorist tools with or without prior knowledge.

A terrorist aim is to inflick fear along with kill to inflick more fear.
When you have people spreading information such like, there is no need for Terrorists.
Extreme Anti-war protestors do it just fine.

When you believe in something you must be strong enough to follow it if you can.

We and the majority of people who know the facts available and choice to read them in their context and on their merit have choosen are views based upon those factors and not other peoples views.

I myself based upon factors and information available and basing the information based upon its source have choosed that in this current situation with the current goverment and leaders that WAR is currently the only forseable option available.

Inspectors could work.
I hope they work.

There are lots of problems to solve world-wide.
Osama Bin Laden is one such problem with his Terrorist group.
We must get that sorted as well.
There are other UN resolutions which must been inforced such as onces on Israel.
The US needs to fix the mistakes its made and have a solid foriegn policy and fair.

Originally posted by tazzy
There are lots of problems to solve world-wide.
Osama Bin Laden is one such problem with his Terrorist group.
We must get that sorted as well.
There are other UN resolutions which must been inforced such as onces on Israel.
The US needs to fix the mistakes its made and have a solid foriegn policy and fair.

Why not fix your home first then take care of other's home?

Originally posted by tazzy
Let me run a scienero past you guys


If we start wars on hypothetical scenarios, then God Help Us. You are proposing for a third world war very soon.

Originally posted by tazzy
I myself based upon factors and information available and basing the information based upon its source have choosed that in this current situation with the current goverment and leaders that WAR is currently the only forseable option available.

Why don't you share that secret information? Why are you posting hypothetical scenarios?

Originally posted by tazzy
He gives these weapons to terrorists and invades Kuiwat, Turkey and all surrounding countries. What do we do then?

There are no strong evidence that Suddam have connections with terrorist.



I'm all for peace.
I do not want to leave in a world which is constantly fighting.


Me too.

Its very bad that people believe that SUDDAM should be given more time. WHY?
How long does it take to say where all the weapons are?
Does he need time to move then or something?
Does he need time to plan an attack against us?

Are you pre-paired to take the risk that he supplies his BIOLOGICAL and CHEMICAL weapons to groups to use against the WEST?

If no evidence, then he is not guilty. You cannot sue anyone without real evidence. So, why he is special?

You believe that the Iraq true people and non suddam people really want to live the way they are now?
The resources allocated to them via the UN and the resolutions set out are being used and abused.

If most of the Iraq people don't like Suddam, then Suddam will not be still in power.


As for the "OIL attack" as its so called.
That is just stupid.
OIL is already provided by many sources and IRAQ is only one of many.

If US is not for oil, why protecting oil is their prioity, but not the Iraq people? Iraq people are those that they want to save, right?

Yu Pang

Hey,

Well.
Have you got any proof there is evidance that means Suddam isn't guilty?
Just because you don't have it doesn't mean someone else doesn't.
The US nor UK goverment does not give its intelligance information out to the general public.

There are lots of ways to have a war.
We don't even have to bomb.
Ground forces can be used majority.
Bombing may have to be done for military targets but we don't have to bomb the people of Iraq.

If we kill them all... whats the point of saving them from Suddam?
If we had that aim we would just leave them with Suddam and let them die slowly and painfully.

Oil is a limited resource at the moment.
We do need to protect it.
The Iraqi people will also be protected after.
We cannot protect them now.

giancarlo .... Why do you deliberately cause trouble. I doubt anybody could be so objectionable by accident even if they are mentally challenged. The creator of this thread particulary asked that war mongers not participate, however your not content to post your opinion and leave it at that you insist on challenging everbody else.
The simple fact is the majority of people in the world DO NOT want this war, this war that Bush seems intent on having. There has been no evidence what so ever put forward to justify America attacking this country. .... What do they call it .. pre-emptive action ... just like Hitler's pre-emptive action on Turkey.

Some of the maturer members may remember Vietnam and the rallies that were directly responsible for that "Police action" ... we were told it wasn't a war it was a police action .... sure seemed like war to me. ..... being abandoned. Vietnam had been going for quite awhile before the rallies started, this time around the conflict hasn't even started and we're having rallies, that must give people some indication of the feelings world wide.

One question. ... "What war has America ever won?" now I don't mean Holywoods version of events ... according to Holywood America wins all the time.

Well that is my opion for what it's worth, I am not debating it, I am not changing my mind and I am not trying to change your mind, I dare say sensible thinking people will atleast understand my point even if they don't agree, on the other hand I doubt giancarlo would ever bother to look at other opinions.

Doc

Originally posted by masood
Why not fix your home first then take care of other's home?

Hello,

Suddam is our problem aswell as everyone elses who isn't supporting him or a terrorist who does what he wants.
Attack freedom, attack the west.

My "home"?
I believe the Earth is my home.

I can see not far in the too distant future we, yes earthlings wiping ourselves out.

Maybe its a good thing.
We seem unable to be able to solve easy problems.
We are wasting resources.
We have in-fighting for no reason.

Originally posted by masood
If we start wars on hypothetical scenarios, then God Help Us. You are proposing for a third world war very soon.



Why don't you share that secret information? Why are you posting hypothetical scenarios?

Hello,

Hypothetical? We've been in war since 12 years ago.
Lets just finish this war and move onto inforcing the will of the UN in other places.
IE: Israel.

There are ups and downs of finishing this war with Iraq.
We may be adding coal to the fire of terrorism.
But hey, lets just let him attack us first.
Then wait for the people to tell us "Told you so".

i think what this thread points out is that people around the world not only oppose war , but also oppose Mr Bush . The number of people provide far more proof that people are against war , more then any gallup poll , "leftest agenda" article , or even a cnn article . According to WHT's very own conservative rightwing military stratigist , The Iraqi military has no chance against a US invasion . People keep saying Saddam needs to be stopped . What about all the other leaders of all the other countries that are just like Saddam ? People act as if Saddam is the only person with weapons of mass destruction , and the only dictator to treat his people poorly . Thats not the case . There are many government officials from many different countrys that have the means to produce weapons of mass destruction and who also treat thier citizens poorly . Is america going to invade these countries too ? Saddam is not a good person , but in my opinion its not americas place to govern the world . I hear alot of people talking about the liberation of iraqi people and stopping terrorism . If anything i believe that once america does invade iraq , and we kill thousands of innocent people ,that we will in turn be producing terrorist . I know if someone or country killed a family member of mine , or a friend ... i would hate that country regardless of thier reasoning . Gian keeps saying war will lead to peace , thats an oxymoron . If thats the case we might as well make murder and assault legal , kill and/or beat all the homeless/mentally ill/ and gangsters here in american because it might make things more peaceful in the end ....

Hey,

Giancarlo is just a war wonger.
I don't like too much war wongers or peace hippies.
Each situation must be marked on its own merit.

Before anyone gets onto North Korea.
North Korea is completely different to Iraq.
With the current goverment it can be solved Diplomatically.

The Iraq "crisis" will be solved soon.

just to add , i dont see any pro war protests . i think its safe to agree with TheDoctor that this war is unjustified , and everyone can see right through Mr. Bush's plan .

Hey,

We are at war.
If you like it or not.
You just have to deal with the problems in the best way possible.

I never said or emplied that Saddam is the only "leaders" of a "bad" nature or needs to be removed for the worlds safety.

The UN must enforce its will and ALL resolutions.
We cannot pick and choice resolutions that suit us.
We must solve this Iraq problem and then solve all other problems.
Maybe not in that order.
Iraq can wait for a bit.
There are other issues to be fixed.
We must prove to the "middle east" that we want to fix issues other than cause them.
We as in the UN.
The hate against the US must be stopped and not by "force".
Diplomatically.

All I can say is its sad we have to do this.
There is no running away from the big problems the UN will face.

tazzy , i dont understand . Just like iraq could invade us , so could any other country . Shall we start war with everyone whom MIGHT be a threat our safety ?

Originally posted by case
just to add , i dont see any pro war protests . i think its safe to agree with TheDoctor that this war is unjustified , and everyone can see right through Mr. Bush's plan .

Hey,

I do think this "war" is justified.
It started 12 years ago.
However, I do believe there are more pressing issues.

North Korea. For example.
Palistine/Israel for Example.
Al-Qada for example.

The above issues need to be resolved before we should get onto the IrAq issue.
We need to solve the above to prove a lot of things.
We need to also solve them as well as possible and resolved via Diplomatic means.

I'm not either side really.

What will happen will happen.
Its out of my hands.

I must say though.
If I was the President of the USA I would handle things A LOT differently.

I wouldn't make the balls up Mr. Bush has been making.
I must admit though is some palces Mr. Bush is better than Gore.
However, Gore does have some good points and is very clever.

However, its already happend.

Originally posted by case
tazzy , i dont understand . Just like iraq could invade us , so could any other country . Shall we start war with everyone whom MIGHT be a threat our safety ?

Hey,

There are threats of many natures.
In theiry France could invade our country.
However, they wouldn't.

There are credable threats out there.
Meaning that if given the chance, they would happen.

I have said many a time.
There are things that need sorting aswell as Iraq.

WHAT ABOUT AFGANISTAN?
Where did they go?
Has anyone noticed that we moved slowly away from them?

I'm slightly peeved about that.
Why isn't there any news about how they're doing?

I have my doubts about Mr. Bush's motivies I must admit.
I do believe Iraq should be sorted though.

you can say france wont , or that this country wont . The whole thing is , we never thought terrorist would do what they did . We have no idea what leaders are doing , planning or thinking . We wont be any safer if we eliminate iraq . I for one have never felt threatened by Saddam , nor has he EVER tried to attack our country. I think if we were to poll the world , the majority of people would say america is more likely to harm another country , then a country is to harm america .

Hey,

I know the French.
I know how they think.
They're not that bad really....
Although never quote me on that :blush: :cartman: :D

I shall feel a lot safer when we sort out the other problems.

Iraq is a problem indirectly more than directly.
Its what could happen about them..... which worries me a bit.

I however as you may have guessed by what I say am not on either side.

I look at what people say.
I look at the facts.
I look at statements and sources.

If we could just get back to everyone lives happily.
Each countries issues are they're own.
There is no money problems or food problems.
Everywhere has a warm, dry, sheltered, safe place to live.
Everyone is happy and lives enjoyable lifes.

Then thats good.... however, the above has never been the case.
It would be good if it could be soon.

The future is so uncertian it worries me.
I'm only 15.
I'm growing up in an agreesive word where by we threated bombing each other with Radiation weaponry which there is currently no defense against and could wipe out the whole population easily.
We use deseases to kill people, such as smallpoxs....

Originally posted by masood
Why not fix your home first then take care of other's home?

Because it's 2003 and news travels instantly. Whatever happens in one country affect the other country as well. What sort of things are wrong with the US that are not being looked at? Other then inflation of soda prices.

Originally posted by case
the majority of people would say america is more likely to harm another country , then a country is to harm america .

And what country did America exactly harm?

Originally posted by tazzy
Have you got any proof there is evidance that means Suddam isn't guilty?

:eek: everyone is not guilty, if no evidence to prove him he is guilty. It is true at least in Hong Kong. It is terrible if it didn't

If I say you owe me $10000, you can't show any evidence you don't. According to your logic, you owe me $10000. So, please give me money. :D

Just because you don't have it doesn't mean someone else doesn't.
The US nor UK goverment does not give its intelligance information out to the general public.

If they have solid evidence, they should show to UN. Then, many people will shut their month, if not support.

There are lots of ways to have a war.
We don't even have to bomb.
Ground forces can be used majority.
Bombing may have to be done for military targets but we don't have to bomb the people of Iraq.

Can you gurarantee no IraQ people (non-military) die?


Oil is a limited resource at the moment.
We do need to protect it.
The Iraqi people will also be protected after.
We cannot protect them now. [/B]

That mean you kill their familiy and destory their home first. Then protect them afterward. :eek: That's why there are so many people hate U.S.

If U.S. don't attack Iraq, all oil is reserved. However, U.S. cannot get cheap oil from Iraq.:rolleyes:

Yu Pang

I don't think people care much if thousands of non-American people got poisened to death. They want a bigger reason to go to war like ONE american getting poisened.

I don't see why going to war for oil as one of the many reasons is a such a bad idea. It's not like we're gong to take all the oil and have a monopoly and not share it. We'll probably be even more open and YOU will pay less for gas.

A plea for peace over here as well :D
http://www.mybigfatgreeklife.com

Originally posted by Shyne
I don't think people care much if thousands of non-American people got poisened to death. They want a bigger reason to go to war like ONE american getting poisened.

I don't see why going to war for oil as one of the many reasons is a such a bad idea. It's not like we're gong to take all the oil and have a monopoly and not share it. We'll probably be even more open and YOU will pay less for gas.

LoL. I am in Hong Kong not US.
From what I know, France, China, but not U.S., have secure some deal with Iraq for cheap oil. (not 100% sure)

So, another reason for not going to war.

Originally posted by Shyne
And what country did America exactly harm?
Try this list for starters:

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.

1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.

1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.

More details can be found at: http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/library/wonderful/index.php

I am still interested in hearing an answer to my question.

"What war has America ever won.?"

and here's a couple more.

1. "What right has America got to interfer with the politics of other countries.

2. What right has America got to "sort out countries" as some suggested in this thread.

3. What happens if America can't invade Iraq. Who then are they going to pick on ... there pride was dented and they tried to attack the terrorist, however the terrorist aren't a country so they (America) didn't know what to do. MR Bush said :idea: "I know, I'll invade Iraq .. I'll do what daddy couldn't do and I'll be able to get the go ahead from congress because of the oil and money we have invested and I''ll be able to prove I'm better than Daddy"

Somebody said .. hey Mr Bush what about Korea .... don't be silly we got our arsed kicked there last time and there's no oil there. ... Yes but Mr Bush ..we got our arse kicked everywhere we went. .... Yes but our people don't remember that.

Just keep waving the flag

'God bless America'

Originally posted by giancarlo
[B]I never conceded 3 million people actually protested. I put the numbers at much lower. Anyways, it doesn't matter because my country is not some leftist hellhole.
You don't have to concede anything, the newspapers of your country tell it. But, if you come here telling that you know more about the facts than them, when you're living at 14.000 Km... Well.. are you Ms. Cleo?



What are you this brain dead?

Again playing to "I understand what I want" how nice.

Originally posted by sisterscape
Try this list for starters:

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.

1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

......



We can create the same list for any country on this planet.

America obviously did some bad things and I'm sure some civilian deaths were not directly caused by Americans. The list just states some events that had US involved, but nothing major or terrifying that US did something to a country to harm it and then dismiss the issue.

US always rebuilds the countries it fights in and then throws millions as aid. I don't know any other country that does the same.

Originally posted by TheDoctor
I am still interested in hearing an answer to my question.

"What war has America ever won.?"

and here's a couple more.

1. "What right has America got to interfer with the politics of other countries.

2. What right has America got to "sort out countries" as some suggested in this thread.

3. What happens if America can't invade Iraq. Who then are they going to pick on ...

1.All the rights in the world. Whatever happens in Iraq affects not only us but Europeans and anyone else. If Mr.Saddam decides to build 10 nukes, his decision affects the whole world doesn't it? Decisions made in America affect other countries as well.

2. Other countries don't seem to know how to settle their difference so a third party is a good way to settle an issue.

3. How exactly are we going to loose against Iraq? Iraq is the perfect battle field and we have every advantage. This is not the 70s, the military has dramatically changed. I don't think people realize this point.

Are you sure Shyne?
Please, do a list similar to that from Iraq. Let us know how Iraq interfered in other countries other than Kuwait.
You're forgeting the overthrow of a democratic elected goverment in Argentina, result = 30.000 People dead or missing.
The gave aid to us? Pufff, you can't imagine, they put a puppet killer dictator who helped to the US economy taking loan when they weren't needed and seriusly hurting the economy.
And I can't remember to anybody in USA saying that in Argentina there were a goverment violation the human rights, or they kill their own people, (the Junta Militar impossed by USA, didn't gassed to the people, they tortured them before to kill them), probably, because economically it were viable to USA.
Indeed, all the dictators in Latin America were trained by USA in the School of America, they learn there how to get information via torture, let's talk about human rights now if you want.

Dont' Forget invasion to Haiti, or how USA supported to Batista in Cuba, sure, probably you don't know how good live has the Cubans before Castro, they were richs :rolleyes:.

Originally posted by Shyne
We can create the same list for any country on this planet.

America obviously did some bad things and I'm sure some civilian deaths were not directly caused by Americans. The list just states some events that had US involved, but nothing major or terrifying that US did something to a country to harm it and then dismiss the issue.

US always rebuilds the countries it fights in and then throws millions as aid. I don't know any other country that does the same.

No you can't create the same list for any country. Australia certainly hasn't done the barbaric things America has.

You say nothing major ... but you didn't have to live through it.
Mighty America ... taken down by a handful of men and a couple of planes .... now Bush and co haven't got a clue what to do.

And a list for Australia!

Originally posted by Shyne
1.All the rights in the world. Whatever happens in Iraq affects not only us but Europeans and anyone else. If Mr.Saddam decides to build 10 nukes, his decision affects the whole world doesn't it? Decisions made in America affect other countries as well.

2. Other countries don't seem to know how to settle their difference so a third party is a good way to settle an issue.

3. How exactly are we going to loose against Iraq? Iraq is the perfect battle field and we have every advantage. This is not the 70s, the military has dramatically changed. I don't think people realize this point.

1- You're SO WRONG, USA do not have any right to interfer in other countries politic. USA have Nuke, Chemical and any kind of armement, Should we (the rest of the world) invade to USA?

2- Again, WRONG, Do you think that USA does know everything? Why don't you fix your own country before to try to fix others? Have I missed something or USA have a LOT of problem in their own country? If you want I can start a list. Other people will help probably if I forget something.

3- If you so sure that USA wont lose a war with Iraq, how exactly can be a threat?

Well this thread has no end.

But Jedito you are right.
"USA have Nuke, Chemical and any kind of armement"

If we go back to Dec2002. Mr. Saddam accepted the UN resolution and allowed the Inspector to visit and search the country all over. And nothing was found. And then Mr.Collin Powell showed some satellite pics in UN few days back. Saying that Iraq has Weapons for mass destruction. Which anyone can make using any designing software :D
So many countries have weapons for mass destruction. Why don't US attacks them and search them.
Why don't US disclose all its technology and weapons to the world?
It's all about OIL...
:D

Originally posted by iWebbers.com
[B]:eek: everyone is not guilty, if no evidence to prove him he is guilty. It is true at least in Hong Kong. It is terrible if it didn't

If I say you owe me $10000, you can't show any evidence you don't. According to your logic, you owe me $10000. So, please give me money. :D


Its in the post.
However, just a little notice.
The postman has already told me he has lost it... just a warning ahead....:cartman:



If they have solid evidence, they should show to UN. Then, many people will shut their month, if not support.

Yes... they should... if they haven't already.. in private.



Can you gurarantee no IraQ people (non-military) die?

No I cannot.
Can you guarantee you will not die in 5 seconds due to a radioactive mosi biting you? :D


That mean you kill their familiy and destory their home first. Then protect them afterward. :eek: That's why there are so many people hate U.S.

Well.
People will only die by accident if I bomb happends to be dropped on them or if they shot first.
They have a choice.
Bombs are pretty advanced now and have good aiming... usually.


If U.S. don't attack Iraq, all oil is reserved. However, U.S. cannot get cheap oil from Iraq.:rolleyes:

Well, US can get cheap OIL from Canada and Russia just fine.

That was a victories day for peace, I don’t care about numbers, just imagine protests even in Israel , I don’t want to hear another 16 years old Spanish kid talking about politics, and about a war he's not going to fight. "u know urself"
And I didn’t know that anyone can write down any misleading information in his signature.
How about claiming that u r saddam's son.
GROW UP……..be strong enough to admit ur wrong one time .

Originally posted by sisterscape

U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

Hello,

They die due to the handling of sactions by the IraQ Goverment.
Don't forget that "small" fact.

Also, don't also forget they are UN sanctions and for a reason.

Originally posted by creedance
GROW UP……..be strong enough to admit ur wrong one time .
You talking to Giancarlo? That will never happen...it is one thing he will never admit to. Ignore him is the best bet. Some of us have "known" him for 18 months, and he isn't about to change anytime soon. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by tazzy
Hello,

They die due to the handling of sactions by the IraQ Goverment.
Don't forget that "small" fact.

Also, don't also forget they are UN sanctions and for a reason.
plz support ur cliams with any link,dont just though gas on fire.
we all know that most of those children died due to cancer and hanger, as a reaction to gulf war 1 , where USA used forbidden wepons which also affected 16,000 of american sold.

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
You talking to Giancarlo? That will never happen...it is one thing he will never admit to. Ignore him is the best bet. Some of us have "known" him for 18 months, and he isn't about to change anytime soon. :rolleyes:

Yes, I have known of him on forums for sometime.
You will like me know that this is not a blessing.

Originally posted by anon-e-mouse
You talking to Giancarlo? That will never happen...it is one thing he will never admit to. Ignore him is the best bet. Some of us have "known" him for 18 months, and he isn't about to change anytime soon. :rolleyes:
yeah it seems im going to do that....ouh well

Originally posted by creedance
plz support ur cliams with any link,dont just though gas on fire.
we all know that most of those children died due to cancer and hanger, as a reaction to gulf war 1 , where USA used forbidden wepons which also affected 16,000 of american sold.

Hey,
I don't need to provide "links".
Just search for official documents.
I watch TV.
I read documents.

Not everything is online.
I cannot provide links to things that have been on TV or read on paper.

Its common knowledge amongst people who are in the political ring in the UK about those facts.

I'm afraid as much as I hate watching the news and political programs, I spend far too much time watching them.
Watching people lie so obviously and answer none of the questions asked but answering all the questions they want to is interesting... and then watching people who ask hard questions get answers from those such people.

Anyhow.
I suggest looking this thread.
Its not a productive thread and it will just lead to GC flaming someone else.

and to back my cliams about the 16,000 usa sold. that died coz of USA using chemical weapons
read this
----------------------
According to health researchers the resulting diseases, collectively known as Gulf War Syndrome, have so far killed a shocking 16000 of America’s armed service members (compared with 148 soldiers killed in action in the Gulf). Tens of thousands more have been incapacitated by Gulf War related illnesses.
-----------------
link : http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00217.htm
or u can search google "keywords" : 16,000 american soldiers disease in gulf war

Hey,

Yes.
Gulf war syndrome as its called was a sicking thing.
I remember watching a documentary about its years and years ago.

Lets wait and see what happends politically rather than speculating and speculating more.
Flaming each others views.
And so on.

I respect everyones views.
I find some peoples views interesting, I find someone peoples views stupid but I still respect them.
However, not everyone pays myself that curtosy.

I would respectly request that we null route this debate.
I can see GC starting a flame war here like he has done so many times before.

im with tazzy :agree:
lets wait and see
we'll all be happy when this ends in peace ;)

http://www.claybennett.com/pages/iraq_defense.html
anyone seen this site b4,its funny
check the archi.

Originally posted by creedance
im with tazzy :agree:
lets wait and see
we'll all be happy when this ends in peace ;)

Its either going to end in peace/extreme war/or more of the same.

I know i'd like the first option personally.

At the moment to be honest i'm *more* worried about my future in terms of work. However, i'm sure something will change that in the near future. :eek: I hope its only a job though and not something which would inforce fear of anything.....

We can only hope this ends in peace and doesn't have anything too bad inbetween.
I sense something bad is coming round the corner... but that might just be me who thinks a lot of **** is going to hit the fan (even more than it is right now) in the coming months and even years :eek:

masood do you even read your own sources, 750k turned out in london not 2 million.

politics and wht = waste of all our time.

It's great that all these folks spent a nice day outside listening to some folks make some nice speaches and folks play some music. It makes them feel worthwhile and that they've contributed somehow to the process. :)

Say did they ever bring up Kuchma selling weapons to Saddam in their speeches? Probably not. You know Kuchma has tons of nuclear warheads that he could easily sell. He already sold SAM systems.

By the way, the estimates for numbers were overblown all over the world. In Argentina there was 1,500 protesters, not 15,000. In Spain no more than half of million, even the authorities over estimated.

And why would Spain come out in support for the war when there is a provincial election this year and prime minister election next year? Because the country supports the war. The demostrators don't speak for the majority.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/16/sprj.irq.protests/index.html

Iraq was gloating Sunday over the global outpouring of opposition to a possible U.S.-led war against the country, saying the rallies by millions of people signaled an Iraqi victory and "the defeat and isolation of America."


How does it feel to be supporting Saddam Hussein? You peace protesters wanted nothing to do when the Bosnians were being slaughtered in the 90s, you wanted nothing to do with the removal of Milosevic, you wanted nothing to do with the arm sales between Ukraine and Baghdad... all you do is support Saddam Hussein (along with other dictators like Milosevic) and with this support Saddam is gloating. :rolleyes:

its ok giancarlo, the world is full of blind cowards and liberals with no comprehension of the results of their stupidity. they have nothing better to do then ponce about on some moral highground. such is life, if 2 million out of 6 billion demonstrate its a very small voice.

Originally posted by richy
masood do you even read your own sources, 750k turned out in london not 2 million.

BBC: The demonstration in London was the capital's biggest in peacetime. The organisers put the turnout at nearly two million, while police said it was more than 750,000.

richy, do you have any relations with blair (foreign minister of United States)? :stickout:

Originally posted by richy
its ok giancarlo, the world is full of blind cowards and liberals with no comprehension of the results of their stupidity.


Yes, we can see that right here on this forum. 15-18 year old kids (read punks) are trying to create peace in the world :stickout:

ummm if your trying to suggest im that old then your quite incorrect.

giancarlo,

Just for your information, Spain's so-called support for this stupid war means nothing. Neither Spain is contributing to this war military, nor Spain has any nukes or veto power. So keep your support to yourself. :stickout:

and the police say more the 750k which mean it was about 750k the organisers are just lieing and inflating the numbers, if it was 1-2 million then the police would have said over 1 million or approaching 2 million. normal set of lies and half truths.

spain had a seat on the security council, if they wish to contribute they can, and they will play a part in un voting. only 5 members hold a veto, and 8 or 9 votes are required anyway.

Originally posted by richy
and the police say more the 750k which mean it was about 750k the organisers are just lieing and inflating the numbers, if it was 1-2 million then the police would have said over 1 million or approaching 2 million. normal set of lies and half truths.

:rolleyes:

I wish Tony Blair would listen to his public now and stop bullying around the world. Alas these leaders only care for their own pockets, even if they have to kill millions. Shame!

yeah lets just let millions of innocent people die under saddams dictatorship. i dont doubt the usa have ulterior motives but that doesnt negate the validity of removing saddam from power. so 1 million ish demonstrated, 1 in 60 of the population, hardly a massive outcry.

Yea, as if you really care about the Iraqi people. ;)

Lots of people demonstarted and they are the people that could be bothered to go and march for their opinion. If that many did that, I bet most of the world really feels the same way. Wanna sign up for a desert war, Richy?

Armchair generals make me laugh and Giancarlos sig makes me sick:

"In 1988 Saddam's army razed 5,000 villages and massacred over 180,000 non-Arabs."
I support real peace. Peace for the Iraqi People. Saddam must be confronted with military force.

How many hundreds of thousands of innocent soldiers (yea, conscripts you idiots) will die in this folly?

There is no need for war. If enough effort was put in by the world's intelligence services, they could engineer a revolution in Iraq but that wouldn't get them any oil. Oh well.....

Originally posted by masood
giancarlo,

Just for your information, Spain's so-called support for this stupid war means nothing. Neither Spain is contributing to this war military, nor Spain has any nukes or veto power. So keep your support to yourself. :stickout:

Wrong again.

Spain is contributing militarily. If you think not, I would like to see your sources.

First off, we could have nukes in sixty days. Yes sixty days from our own reactors. You know 30% of country's electricity comes from Nuclear Reactors and these reactors are capable of producing uranium and plutonium that could be used in bombs. But we just don't build them.

And yes we do have veto power.

You are a fool.

Yeah, they have just found a new love for Iraqi people. Liars.

There were one million people in Baghdad alone in the protests.

There is no need for war. If enough effort was put in by the world's intelligence services, they could engineer a revolution in Iraq but that wouldn't get them any oil. Oh well.....

As foolish are so you are... stealing oil is not feasible. It takes 5-10 years to get it out on the market and 5 years to build a refinery, and additional time to build a processing plant. So that war for oil bull**** is what it is... crap.

Originally posted by masood
Yeah, they have just found a new love for Iraqi people. Liars.

There were one million people in Baghdad alone in the protests.

Who paid whom to protest? And are those public employees who have been ordered to protest? :rolleyes: Continue believing your baseless statements.

Originally posted by giancarlo
[B]By the way, the estimates for numbers were overblown all over the world. In Argentina there was 1,500 protesters, not 15,000. In Spain no more than half of million, even the authorities over estimated.
Hehehe, did you count 'em yourself. Change the tune buddy.

How does it feel to be supporting Saddam Hussein? You peace protesters wanted nothing to do when the Bosnians were being slaughtered in the 90s.
Now you are really pissing me off. I'm a Brit and our forces were there unlike you Spaniards. We were there defending Europe matey and everyone fully supported that. There were no peace protests about that. You are starting to make WHT stink with your bull****. Go back and play with the kiddies on FWS.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Who paid whom to protest? And are those public employees who have been ordered to protest? :rolleyes: Continue believing your baseless statements.

Prove it first.

So far the only person with baseless war mongering is you.

Why you posting anyway, don't you know that posts don't count here. ;)

Originally posted by NexDog
Why you posting anyway, don't you know that posts don't count here. ;)

Giancarlo is 18-years old kid who wants to see a war. That's why he is posting. He loves Iraqi people, so want to have a war with them. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by masood
Yes, we can see that right here on this forum. 15-18 year old kids (read punks) are trying to create peace in the world :stickout:

Hey,

Who? What? When? :eek:

Originally posted by giancarlo
As foolish are so you are... stealing oil is not feasible. It takes 5-10 years to get it out on the market and 5 years to build a refinery, and additional time to build a processing plant. So that war for oil bull**** is what it is... crap.
Oh yea, forgot that Saddam didn't have his own refineries and processing plants - silly me. :cartman:

Originally posted by NexDog
Hehehe, did you count 'em yourself. Change the tune buddy.

Now you are really pissing me off. I'm a Brit and our forces were there unlike you Spaniards. We were there defending Europe matey and everyone fully supported that. There were no peace protests about that. You are starting to make WHT stink with your bull****. Go back and play with the kiddies on FWS.

Our forces really don't participate in anything... do they?

http://www.mde.es/mde/infoes/afganistan/afga12.htm

Yaddayaddayadda...

http://www.mde.es/mde/mision/mision.htm

BLABLHBLAHLBAHBLAH

I win. You lose.

Masood:

You want Saddam to continuing murderering the Iraqi people. You love Saddam... you want him to continue his killings. You know his sons have raped women? You know what his army has done to its people? You know there was a protest against Saddam in Iraq... wonder what happened to those protesters? THEY ARE ALL DEAD! OR DISAPPEARED!

Originally posted by NexDog
Hehehe, did you count 'em yourself. Change the tune buddy.

Now you are really pissing me off. I'm a Brit and our forces were there unlike you Spaniards. We were there defending Europe matey and everyone fully supported that. There were no peace protests about that. You are starting to make WHT stink with your bull****. Go back and play with the kiddies on FWS.

Hey,

He is banned from FWS and for good reason.
GC I would highly recommend taking the back door out of this debate.
Deja Vu is about to accur.

Originally posted by NexDog
Oh yea, forgot that Saddam didn't have his own refineries and processing plants - silly me. :cartman:

No they are owned by the French. ;) GEE LET ME THINK FOR A MINUTE!

Originally posted by giancarlo

I win. You lose.

I can almost see him now jumping up and down and screaming in that high pitched voice.........

Originally posted by giancarlo
You want Saddam to continuing murderering the Iraqi people. You love Saddam... you want him to continue his killings. You know his sons have raped women? You know what his army has done to its people? You know there was a protest against Saddam in Iraq... wonder what happened to those protesters? THEY ARE ALL DEAD! OR DISAPPEARED!

No, I do not watch CNN.

Say what you want... I just don't care anymore.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Say what you want... I just don't care anymore.

Okay.
Now can you request for your threads you've created to be merged?

Originally posted by giancarlo
In Spain no more than half of million, even the authorities over estimated.
[/url]


And HOW THE HELL do you know that?
What's your source? You're not even there.
Stop your lies.

Say what you want, I just frigging care anymore... you can continue believing your lies.

I will not request for any threads to be merged.

Originally posted by Jedito
And HOW THE HELL do you know that?
What's your source? You're not even there.
Stop your lies.


Hey,

Please don't start a flame war.
You and I know and anyone who knows of GC antics that you must never disagree with his views.

Just be strong and let it drop.
Even when he starts flaming you back.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Say what you want, I just frigging care anymore... you can continue believing your lies.

I will not request for any threads to be merged.

Hey,

Well that is just fine and dandy.
Just stop creating new onces related to this subject then.

Originally posted by giancarlo Wrong again.

Spain is contributing militarily. If you think not, I would like to see your sources.
Wrong

First off, we could have nukes in sixty days. Yes sixty days from our own reactors. You know 30% of country's electricity comes from Nuclear Reactors and these reactors are capable of producing uranium and plutonium that could be used in bombs. But we just don't build them.

Wrong, chemistry seems to not be your field.

And yes we do have veto power.[/quote]
Wrong again. Spand do not have Veto power in the UN.

You are a fool.
Tipical comming from you.

Na, just wind him up and see him get worked up. It's so much fun. :D

Jedito, quit speaking for Spain... please. It is embarassing.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Jedito, quit speaking for Spain... please. It is embarassing.

Quit speaking for US.

Masood, I haven't.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Say what you want, I just frigging care anymore... you can continue believing your lies.

I will not request for any threads to be merged.

Lies? You didn't provided any source to affirm that the Spanish goverment overstimated the number of people on the march.

BTW, those 2 links that you post about the spanish army participating in conflicts, is very sad that you take advantage of people who don't know spanish.
There it say that Spain participated with only 350 soldiers, and they don't even shoot a single bullet.
Also, they were in Afganishtan after the overthrow of the taliban regime.
Shame on you! Taking adventages because other people do not understand what you post.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Jedito, quit speaking for Spain... please. It is embarassing.

I don't want.
Seems like I know more about your country than yourself.

Sorry Jedito but no matter how wrong you are, I will not take part in this little mockery of a discussion. Continue on believing your delusional lies... I will have nothing to do with it. That goes for everybody else. I just don't have the patience to deal with people who have nothing better to do...

Jedito, you know nothing about my country period.

You're leaving because you can't stand what you said.
Has been proved that you're wrong, and instead of admit it you keep repeating the same thing.
Show me some proof that the spanish goverment overstimate the quantity of people protesting?
Show me some proof of Spanish soldiers fighting in international missions.
Show some proof of anything that you said.

And I know a lot about Spain, if you don't like it, that's your problem, couldn't care me less.

Originally posted by giancarlo
Masood, I haven't.

What?

Originally posted by giancarlo
the US was only protecting civilians in the North

:rolleyes:

Jedito: I haven't been proven wrong by anything you said. You have yet to show me any proof I am wrong. Sorry but I have had enough of you and this so called debate.

Yes, I showed links where your goverment stimated the number of people protesting in like 3.000.000 in all spain :)

Okay... now can you answer one question I have... why did the Spanish government come out in support of the war on a election year? :rolleyes:

Because the beans taste so good this year.

I don't care, and I don't have to answer that.

I'm just saying that you didn't show a single proof that the YOUR goverment overstimated the quantity of people protesting.

Also, I showed you, how 3.000.000 persons can be representative for a country (Remember the ETA march as example).

Back up 1 time, and admit that you're wrong.

Those demostrators DO NOT SPEAK FOR THE COUNTRY, PERIOD.

HUH??? and how did you came to that "reflection"?

Then those 1.500.000 protesting about the ETA are not representative either?

Also, do not forget that Aznar have to leave the next year. He don't really care his image. He can't be re-elected.

This isn't a protest about ETA or anything in that matter. It is about Iraq. The protesters do not speak for the country on this issue.

And you are right, Aznar is leaving next year. But he wants his own party to win more seats.

Originally posted by giancarlo
..........But we just don't build them...........

Of course, you would know that.... You know everything **YOU THINK**

Do you ever feel alone, knowing you are fighting a lost case... God knows how many people of this thread disagree with what you say....

Damm, some-people find it so hard to take the HINT!!!


-Shazad

giancarlo, do you ever think, the amount of hatred for the USA/UK "IF/WHEN" they attack Iraq is going to create so much instability around the world....

Your are going to create tens-of-thousands of terrorist, so be prepared for it...


-Shazad

I am not fighting a lost case... you are. Peaceniks are usually like that.

And no.. you are the one that is gonna create tens of thousands of terrorists...

Originally posted by masood
Jedito,

Leave this war mongerer. Here's a poem for you to enjoy:

Set to the tune of "If You're Happy and You Know It, Clap Your Hands"

<snip rest of oh-so-cute little poem>

I should probably have my head examined for even jumping into this ridiculous thread, but I will all the same:

Here's the bottom line for those of you who think us big bad Americans are nothing but warmongers and bullies:

"Hans Blix's report last week said that compliance with these obligations meant "more than opening doors". Iraq had to "squarely tackle this task and avoid belittling the questions". In his report on January 27, Dr Blix noted that 6,500 chemical bombs, stocks of anthrax and VX nerve agent, 3,000 tonnes of precursor chemicals, 360 tonnes of bulk agents for chemical weapons and 30,000 special munitions for the delivery of such agents were unaccounted for."

Please read the above as many times as necessary until it sinks in. Iraq had this stuff - it's documented -, and now they're shrugging their shoulders and saying "what weapons, what chemicals?".

Yes, there were some pretty large protests yesterday. Unfortunately, the passion and idealism of the protesters is dwarfed by their sheer ignorance of the true reality and ramifications of letting Iraq continue leading the UN and some of our so-called "allies" around by the nose.

The protesters, along with Germany, France, and Belgium, can kiss my ass.


.

Originally posted by Stomp442
[B.....................

The protesters, along with Germany, France, and Belgium, can kiss my ass.


. [/B]

No need for that language, cant take the facts then dont partisipate.

There is evidently more AGAINT WAR thean PRO WAR!!!
Good look, with your unproven, without any evidence WAR!


-Shazad

War doesn't decide who's right, just who's left

with your unproven, without any evidence WAR!

First off he has a proven case. You do not.

Originally posted by Rewdog
War doesn't decide who's right, just who's left

Not much of a WAR though is it ?
Its like a small programming firm, competing against Micro$oft...

Micro$oft is the BULLY and in this case USA/UK!


-Shazad

Cabal, are you on drugs?

Hi,

Peace solution OK! BUT please stop pro Sadam propaganda.

Where were "global anti-war protesters" when Saddam killed children with poison gas?

:mad:
D.

Originally posted by giancarlo
I am not fighting a lost case... you are. Peaceniks are usually like that.

And no.. you are the one that is gonna create tens of thousands of terrorists...

I sure would rather be a "Peaceniks" than a WAR MONGER!!!!!!!!!


-Shazad

Originally posted by fcolor
He,

Peace solution OK! BUT please stop pro Sadam propaganda.

Where were "global anti-war protesters" when Saddam killed children with poison gas?

:mad:
D.

I dont Support SADDAM, I nor do I support a WAR of this nature.....

This is not about SADDAM, Its about the Iraqi people...


-Shazad

Originally posted by cabalstudios
I sure would rather be a "Peaceniks" than a WAR MONGER!!!!!!!!!


-Shazad

You are the war mongerer because you want this conflict to be one of extended nature. I want a just and lasting peace with Saddam taken out by force.

Cabal, this isn't a war. And it won't be one. It will be swift and quick battle because Saddam's army won't last a month.

Originally posted by cabalstudios
I dont Support SADDAM, I nor do I support a WAR of this nature.....


-Shazad

Nobody supports war! Saddam regime is a soviet and criminal one. Go to make business in Iraq if you're satisfied of his rule.

... and if it is about people in Iraq urge them to force him down.. not to elect him with 99.9% ... uptime guarantee :(

D.

Originally posted by giancarlo
You are the war mongerer because you want this conflict to be one of extended nature. I want a just and lasting peace with Saddam taken out by force.

Cabal, this isn't a war. And it won't be one. It will be swift and quick battle because Saddam's army won't last a month.

I am not the first one to tell you, but "go and play with your TOY soliders"


-Shazad

Originally posted by fcolor
Nobody supports war! Saddam regime is a soviet and criminal one. Go to make business in Iraq if you're satisfied of his rule.

D.

And so is the USA government, but we don’t talk about attacking them do we?

Don’t contradict what you say....


-Shazad

Originally posted by cabalstudios
And so is the USA government, but we don’t talk about attacking them do we?

Don’t contradict what you say....


-Shazad

As I remember US have been attacked without an warning. Have you been on vacation at this time?

I also I do not remember any anty terrorist protests in Iraq after 11 september.

D.

Originally posted by Stomp442
<snip rest of oh-so-cute little poem>

I should probably have my head examined for even jumping into this ridiculous thread, but I will all the same:

Here's the bottom line for those of you who think us big bad Americans are nothing but warmongers and bullies:

"Hans Blix's report last week said that compliance with these obligations meant "more than opening doors". Iraq had to "squarely tackle this task and avoid belittling the questions". In his report on January 27, Dr Blix noted that 6,500 chemical bombs, stocks of anthrax and VX nerve agent, 3,000 tonnes of precursor chemicals, 360 tonnes of bulk agents for chemical weapons and 30,000 special munitions for the delivery of such agents were unaccounted for."

Please read the above as many times as necessary until it sinks in. Iraq had this stuff - it's documented -, and now they're shrugging their shoulders and saying "what weapons, what chemicals?".

Yes, there were some pretty large protests yesterday. Unfortunately, the passion and idealism of the protesters is dwarfed by their sheer ignorance of the true reality and ramifications of letting Iraq continue leading the UN and some of our so-called "allies" around by the nose.

The protesters, along with Germany, France, and Belgium, can kiss my ass.


.

Some people can be so stupid. Unbelievable. Have you read the last report of Blix to UN? :rolleyes:

It amuses me how war mongers want to achieve peace in the world by imposing unjustified war.

Here's a checklist for war on Iraq:

- tanks: yes
- soldiers: yes
- planes: yes
- bombs: yes
- reason: still trying to find one

Losers! :stickout:

Canadians Join Global Protests Against Iraq War

In Canada about 100,000 people demonstrated in frigid Montreal and on the west coast a long, winding march of 25,000 protesters clogged the streets of Vancouver.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=840&ncid=737&e=1&u=/nm/20030216/wl_canada_nm/canada_iraq_col


Protests enter 2nd day in Australia

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=590&ncid=733&e=1&u=/ap/20030216/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_iraq


Results of all these protests :: U.S., Britain Reworking Iraq Resolution

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=15&u=/ap/20030216/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_iraq

shazad, i agree if war can be avoided it is best all round, i dont want any innocent people to die no matter what their creed. i do however think saddam being in power is not good for iraq, for iraquis or for the world in general. he needs to be removed, a sentiment i think you have agreed with in the past although forgive me if my memory is wrong. how on earth can we remove him from power peacefully?

richy,

this isn't about removing saddam hussain. if it was, he would have been removed a decade ago.

i dont doubt the usa has vested interests as regards oil, but thats the payback for no one else stepping up to the plate to play international peacekeeper.

there isn't any international peacekeeping involved in iraq. there are no war-lords or tribal fighting going on in iraq.

more pressing issues for international peacekeeping:

1) Kashmir (1947)
2) Palestine (1967)

what's wrong with them?

saddams treatment of his own people leaves a lot to be desired, hes not in any danger of winning the humanitarian awards.

160 pictures (http://www.punchdown.org/rvb/F15/) of some of the 11 million (estimated) protesters worldwide yesterday. Very inspiring!!!

I feel ashamed people would protest about something they know nothing about. 11 million? They are a minority opinion in the US, Spain, Italy and those countries who signed the letter (pact) supporting the US.

Originally posted by giancarlo
I feel ashamed people would protest about something they know nothing about. 11 million? They are a minority opinion in the US, Spain, Italy and those countries who signed the letter (pact) supporting the US.

US, Spain, Italy and those countries who signed the letter (pact) supporting the US are just small number of countries. Their total population are well under 50% of the world.

I heard the US has 40 countries supporting it, including India.

Anyways, check out my new addition to my sig:

The Patrotic Union of Kurdistan... fighting for freedom and democracy. You peaceniks should support them. But you don't.

Thread closed, its been talked to death, giancarlo, your sig has been removed, please put something more appropriate.