Yet Another Web Hosting Talk Advice Thread/Topic

Okay.

Here's the 'deal'.

I'm 17, I have a fair bit of money. I've already purchased a dedicated server, after shopping around for months and learning what I could. The next obvious step was to jump right in, and call the costs tuition.

I'm out of school, and I've been out of school for a year. I've had my GED for around a year as well.

I'd like to know, before I consult a lawyer, where exactly I am at legally. I plan on paying things by using a debit card, attached to my paypal account, attached to several bank accounts. I don't want anyone else to be liable besides myself.

I'd like to form an LLC, or become incorporated, but I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

Other questions:
Should I do the TOS and such myself, or should I hire a lawyer to help me, or go over it after I do it?
Should I take care of taxes myself, and are there any books I can pick up to help me? Or is an accountant the best?

I've thought about going in on this with others, but my few attempts haven't worked out. That is, I decided the partner/s were too much of a risk, or things just 'didn't work'.

Also, general tips would be great.
Notso general tips would be appreciated as well. Just little bits.

Perhaps we should make a FAQ and put it at the top of this forum.

Oh, also, banks won't give me any account besides savings. That is definately a problem.

Since you're a minor, you'll probably have to get your legal guardian/parent to sign everything for you to operate legally. The bank will give you an account as long as you have someone to co-sign.

You would be better off spending your money to go to school or something.


These type of topics are getting really annoying, I mean come on, To break down what your post says in plain words.


Im a clueless teenager that doesn't realize the internet bandwagon lost a wheel over the last couple of years and is limping along, But thats ok because I have no clue on what I am doing, have done very little research on my own, just looks like hosting can make me mad cash so im going to try it, Lets ask someone else to do my research for me and answer all my questions because I haven't been in the world long enough to learn my own work ethics and will end up failing, most likely at the cost of others since I plan on undercutting prices and bringing the hosting industry down yet another notch.

May be harsh but its just sooo true.. Theres tons of posts through this forum on the exact questions you ask, yet you ask them again, you say you have shopped around and learned what you could, Yet you clearly havent learned about the seach functions on a simple bulletin board. Have you spent any time at barnes and noble reading books on starting a business? Maybe looked to see if there is a webhosting for dummies book?

Lets look at your post line by line.

1. You have money, but your not going to college, You have a GED hmm you didnt have the skill? or self motivation to finish highschool but you want to run a business

2. You spent the money on a dedicated server already but your pretty clueless about alot of very important points

3. You know nothing about incorperation, a pretty important part of running a business.. Theres tons of online information on this.

4. You don't know about the tax's but you already spent money on a server?? What are your tax breaks for purchase vs lease on a dedicated server? Do you know?

Why bother? People dont even care, Im 27 and i run my business legaly, ABN, taxes etc etc, but im guessing i could still do all this if i was underage without anyone knowing, I might be wrong though.

Originally posted by pattox
. . . . .i could still do all this if i was underage without anyone knowing,. . . . Sure you could. But that's not the point. This subject has been discussed so many times that we should take the thread starter's suggestion and just make it a sticky somewhere. Something like, "Should minors attempt business?"

Most of my points are not age specific, although its the younger crowd that tend to hit these points the most.


1. This one is a little age specific, Theres really only 2 reasons a person has a GED, Didnt finish high school, Or took it because they where so smart they didnt need highschool. If a person was that smarty they wouldnt be asking questions like this so You assume the person couldnt/didnt complete highschool for some reason.

All other points are valid for any person, if they dont have those points covered they don't belong in the webhosting business, heck they shouldn't be starting up any business at all.

"Should minors attempt business?" When you come right down to it, Its not specific to minors, We need a stick titled "Should YOU attempt to start your own business" and cover the basics that a person should research/need to know before they purchase a server, or even start asking questions.

Item 1. purchase a book about starting your own business, 99% of them have a section dedicated to "Are you the type of person who can run your own business" If you can get past that section of the book. Then move on.

You're right. I've seen just as many "adults" around this forum that have no business attempting business.

LOL, you better hope none of the Paypal reps read this post.

no kidding, directly from paypal's website.

A Special Note About Children. Children are not eligible to use our service and we ask that minors (under the age of 18) do not submit any personal information to us or use the service.


Taking that into consideration, how can anyone under 18 even begin to accept money (legally) over the internet without some sort of legal guardian supporting them.

17 year olds can get a GED?

Down here 17 year olds are still in school, either 11th or 12th grade, or else promoted and get out early. If your tooken out of school you can come back and go for the regular diploma. I guess things are totally differnt where your at.

First thing I would do/would have done.

Found out everything about it.. Get someone legal to do the paper work and help me out. thats basically it :)

Why not work for a hosting company first and get some experience then start your own? Especially if you're coming right out of school. Or just work for a hosting company and not start your own..... starting a business isn't as magical as some people think. You end up working 100x more than you would working for someone else.

Starting your business doesn't happen over night and you need to pay the bills between now and then when you're starting up so think about a backup job to keep your personal bills and start up business bills paid until your company can stand on its own two feet.

I think the biggest hurdle is you age. I will admit that age does not directly reflect ability. Paypal, banks, third party processors, etc. Will not work with you until you are 18. Likewise I don't think you could incorporate until 18.

Take some time learn all you can about the industry. Make contacts. Before starting my web company I spent time just making design aand progrmming contacts.

Not go off topic and not to encourage people to leave school, but there are plenty of people that didn't complete high school that went on to become hugely successful.

H.G. Wells
Jim Clark (founder of Netscape)
Peter Jennings
Pierce Brosnan
Daniel Gilbert (A harvard professor)

And many more.

http://angelfire.com/stars4/lists/dropouts.html

Of course then again, most people who didn't complete school work minimum wage jobs, so who knows. ;)

99% of those people are actors, writers, professions where school training is not extremely important..

How many are business men/women. A couple of them. Out of those that are business men/women how many started out as teenages, Im pretty sure none of them, They got where they are by hard work, learning the industry, working odd jobs and increasing there skills and knowledge.. They didnt just become a instant success.

Go to college. I am in college and started doing web hosting a month after I turned 18. I am practicing as a sole proprietor, which is the easiest form of business to "setup" since the only "setup" is the paperwork to get your assumed business name. There is no reason you can't reach higher education AND do web hosting. In fact, each experience should be beneficial to the other.

Originally posted by JWise
Down here 17 year olds are still in school, either 11th or 12th grade
Not necessarily. I just turned seventeen a few days before I graduated from high school ;-)

Cu, Moritz

I don't think that it is a good idea to drop out of school. But I know a guy that dropped out of school and owns his own company. He was making very good money the first 6 months he started, then he decided that he wanted to get a real job and cut back his company.


-dennis

Originally posted by cyberlot
99% of those people are actors, writers, professions where school training is not extremely important..

How many are business men/women. A couple of them. Out of those that are business men/women how many started out as teenages, Im pretty sure none of them, They got where they are by hard work, learning the industry, working odd jobs and increasing there skills and knowledge.. They didnt just become a instant success.

farmer bill out in washington never finished college... granted hes the exception, but a pretty notable one at that.

To put it in the words of my generation (and what a sad generation it is...) "Some dudes **** up and decide to, like..." Well, what I mean is that some people make mistakes and then decide to better themselves. Everyone has to make amends sometime or another. Being a 20-year-old with a GED myself, I found 'redeeming myself' via my own business quite gratifying. After dropping out of high school, perhaps the very next week, I realized that in the world we currently live in you cannot go anywhere without a college education. Ah! I could go on for hours. Perhaps he isn't just some drop-out looking for 'mad cash' to support his drug habits or car-pimping fetishes.

...and after re-reading half the posts on this topic, I've learned that a college education obviously doesn't provide you with a proper grasp of the english language. Isn't grammar important? ;)

I'm very tempted to make a certain type of reply that I won't.

I dropped out of school for many reasons, if my intelligence is up for debate, kindly make another topic and we can go at it all you'd like.

I'll add on more later, I need to catch a train to see a girl about a day.

Originally posted by Caffling
I'm very tempted to make a certain type of reply that I won't.

I dropped out of school for many reasons, if my intelligence is up for debate, kindly make another topic and we can go at it all you'd like.

I'll add on more later, I need to catch a train to see a girl about a day.

Kiss her goodbye unless you have enough money to hire someone else to take care of the business on your dates. Remember hosting websites is 24/7/365.

Hi Caffling,

These tips can apply to anyone at any age:

For the TOS / AUP, you can write it up yourself; but at least have a lawyer read it over before you send it live. That may save you some money (by writing it yourself) but having a legal professional read it over will be a safety net. S/he should be able to spot anything you may have left uncovered.

For company type, that really should be your decision. Each has its own positives and negatives. Do some more research - there are sites and books that can help you out.

A good resource, if you live in the US, is SCORE ( www.score.org ). It's a group of retired business execs who give advice to people starting or running a small business.

Rewdog has a good point regarding coverage. If you can't take care of your hosting business 24/7/365, hire someone else who can help you out. You can pay them in money; barter; whatever. But you're the person on call if there's a glitch with the server software. You're the person on call if one of your clients needs something done in an emergency. And if you have a dedicated server as opposed to a managed one, you're the person who has to make sure that most - if not all - of the software is up to date and installed correctly.

On the age thing: you say you're currently seventeen. How long until you're the age of legal majority in your home state / area? You may want to wait until then to start your business. It will give you time to research all the legal aspects, get your ducks in a row, and do all the other things necessary to a well-run hosting business. Just having a dedicated server and techical knowhow isn't enough. You've got to have measures in place to protect your clients and protect yourself. Plus, think what a pain it would be if you suddenly found your various CC processor accounts or what have you cancelled because they found out that you were under the age of 18.

And to others:

Reasons for dropping out of school are more varied than not having initiative or the old assumption of "not being intelligent enough to make a go of it". Being too intelligent for the local school's curriculum / teaching style; needing to get work to help support a family; needing to leave school to be with a friend or relative who needed 24-hour attention; serious clashes with the administration of said school; what have you. Someone could drop out of school for any number of reasons.

Folks, the first three letters of assume are A-S-S. Don't make one, don't be one.

Originally posted by Rewdog
Kiss her goodbye unless you have enough money to hire someone else to take care of the business on your dates. Remember hosting websites is 24/7/365.

Not exactly dates. I live with her half of the time right now, and in the next few months, we are moving in together. We've only been together a year, but we are engaged.

You're 17 and engaged? :eek:

Guess he didn't ask anyone about that.

The fact he's 17 and engaged bothers you but that he's 17 and living with a girl doesn't? haha

Richard Branson.....self-made billionaire British businessman; founder of "Virgin Atlantic Airways," "Virgin Records," etc.; best-selling British author; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Richard Branson)

Left school with 2 GCSEs. That's equivalent to doing very poorly in the final compulsory year of high school (I think)...

I am a minor and I am considering running a web hosting business. My father and I have discussed it thoroughly. Monday I am going to call a representative of our “Small Business Center” to get an “A-Z” list of the things I need to do to start a business in my state. I have been reading WHT.com on and off for nearly two years. On top of that, I am familiar with RedHat linux and have worked with a web hosting company (no pay) in the past.
I don’t want to provide services to the hundreds of people looking for hosting for their clansites, online stores, etc. I would much rather focus on local businesses. Based on what I have said, in your opinion do I sound qualified to start a company?
Any tips/suggestions would be very welcome!

Originally posted by mjehlenz
Not necessarily. I just turned seventeen a few days before I graduated from high school ;-)

Cu, Moritz


That settles it, things are much different in other places :)

To the thread starter,

I would advise you to learn as much as possible before starting. Get the right people to do the legal stuff and run the business. Either that or work until your ready and qualified.

While like most people I'm a little tired of "I'm a teen and want to start a business" thread. On the other hand, I'd like to make two points.

1. If an 8 year old came up and said “I want to be in the Olympics and be the best in the world.” you might laugh, but that’s the age they start at for some of the sports. How old do you think most of the gymnasts are? So why is it so hard to imagine a 16 or 17 year old with that same type of goal or dream for business?


2. Before I started my current businesses I was the President of an investment bank. I can tell you more guys with MBAs from Harvard, Yale and other major collages have bankrupted or put good companies out of business than guys who came up from the streets. Formal education is not the primary factor in the ability to run a business.

Originally posted by R Doherty
Richard Branson.....self-made billionaire British businessman; founder of "Virgin Atlantic Airways," "Virgin Records," etc.; best-selling British author; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Richard Branson)

Left school with 2 GCSEs. That's equivalent to doing very poorly in the final compulsory year of high school (I think)...


Though Richard also crashed his balloon a few times while trying to promote Virgin Atlantic I believe. Not the best of connections to make ;)

I'm not completely void of any business-smarts. I've sat in on meetings and listened in on conference calls for the majority of my life. I've spent the last year day-trading, and for me, this is the next logical step to make.

Originally posted by mgphoto
2. Before I started my current businesses I was the President of an investment bank. I can tell you more guys with MBAs from Harvard, Yale and other major collages have bankrupted or put good companies out of business than guys who came up from the streets. Formal education is not the primary factor in the ability to run a business.
That just proves you need a good head on your shoulders regardless of the diplomas you hang on your wall.

I keep seeing this list passed around of popular drop outs from High School / College. 669 amazing people? Wow. If I wanted to showcase those who didn't get anywhere in life I'd go to my local McDonald's, no fancy prepared list needed.

Listen, it's a tough world. If you're really that good at what you do an education is nothing but a foot in the door, won't help you in the long run, and if you're lucky won't even be needed. Want to know how many people in the world are that motivated? 669 out of every 300+ million people, about one five-thousandth of a percent. If you're a gambling man give it a go, if you're even doubtful for a second get that education.

Prepare yourself, don't risk your life and livelihood on a bet.

Sincerely,

-Matt

Originally posted by Caffling

Should I take care of taxes myself, and are there any books I can pick up to help me? Or is an accountant the best?



don't be a hero, pay someone to do it right :)

also guys lets not jump down his throat give the man what he asked for tell him what he needs to do to get started instead of critizing him about his life.

Him dropping out of high school doesn't make him a dummy or anything like that. This guy wants to do something with his life.. He wants to start a webhosting company , so help him instead of knocking him..

I agree he should look into this more.. thats why he posted here. He thought people would help him.

Caffling, there are some topics laying around on this board that may answer some of your questions. Get a business plan layed out and etc. Hope you get your business running soon.

-Julius

I've searched and read most of the other threads concerning this, and it more or less seemed to be kids still in school looking for something to do as a hobby.

I'm genuinely concerned about what I can offer customers, and what I can't.

The criticism is nowhere near as harsh I've looked at myself. I see myself as not only an investor of money, but time, and I wouldn't invest if I didn't think I'd get a return, in knowledge or money.

I appreciate the criticism, but the constructive advice and criticism is more helpful :)

I

Hello,

Caffling, I'm 15 and was interested in starting up a company but stalled at VC backing it still may happen but anyhow good luck. I was looking into starting a company in the UK so I can't really help you with starting a company in the US.

If you can afford to invest thats only one part of the puzzle you have to do.

I'm prepaired to chat with you an give you advise, yes i'm "only" 15. I can however give you advise on the web hosting industry and how to make it. I can help you build a solid business plan and have policies that are realistic and easy to follow.

If you are interested in my help just private message me using WHT. I would like to help you and pass on what I know to you. You seem a smart guy so I believe my knowledge wont be wasted and hopefully used with your own to create a good and solid business which is secure and profitable.

I think im experiencing deja vu

Originally posted by KRIG
I think im experiencing deja vu

You are, how so?

Since i started lurking here this seems like the umpteenth time ive read a thread about minors starting a hosting company.

Repitition seems to be happening more and more on boards. Not just here but usenet etc. Someone asks a question and ten posts later someone else asks that same question and ten posts later...........

Originally posted by tazzy
. . . . . . . . I would like to help you and pass on what I know to you. You seem a smart guy so I believe my knowledge . . . . . I would just like to add that tazzy is wise beyond his years. I, being thirty six years his senior, would not hesitate heeding his advice (if I needed advice:) ). BUT, although I believe he may be capable, I wouldn't have him run a company for me. The age thing and all. Sorry.

As someone mentioned, there are tons of threads on this very subject. They seem to start out innocent enough; and then degrade into name calling and other bickerings before being closed.

Study the industry. Write a business plan. Re-write the business plan. Then write it again.

Hello,

Thanks for the kind words SWR.
I am too young to run a company in the US legally and on my own.
I would need a person over the age of 18 to sign all the legal documents for me.
I may be wrong but thats the general rule over there as far as I am aware.

Therefor you would also have problems if the above is correct.
As far as LLC or INC status, I would suggest that you ask an accountant regarding that.
They will be able to advise you on the best way to set-up a company and all the tax issues you may face.

As everyone else has said and you have also said you have done search WHT. Spend some time just looking through threads of this nature.
Make sure you don't do a Timmay and underprice what you offer or even what it costs you to actually buy/rent yourself and including all costs involved in offering such service.
Don't make promises you cannot keep.
Do not whatever you do go into this too quickly.

Plan your start.
Plan you future.
Where are you going to be in 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 1 year?
Why will your business work?
How much investment is required in the first month and any following months?
What are your aims as a company?
How are you going to turn a profit?
When will you turn a profit?
What will happen should you make a loss?
Can you afford to make a loss/be in debt and how much can you afford to be in debt for?
When do you expect to a return on your investment and when you do expect to make a profit on it?

Build a business plan will all costs listed.
Build a business plan with all income listed.
Build a business plan with your first finacial year forcasts.

Expand on the above steps and questions to ask yourself and answer.

We can only advise, you have to do.

Please remember.
Set your goals realistic.

Firstly, don't let some people on this forum put you out of the idea of starting your own business. Use thier comments as advice. The biggest part of starting a business is research and planning. For example, are you sure you want to start webhosting ?? There is a heck of a lot of hosts out there. Why not think of something original ?

if you're set at becoming a web host. What are you going to offer which makes you better than hosts that are already out there?

My recommendation is to think about starting a business, but spend the time up until your 18 to think deeply about the business,and answer the questions on your original post yourself. Research and plan!

Originally posted by Coach

Of course then again, most people who didn't complete school work minimum wage jobs, so who knows. ;)

I'm betting this group's a lot bigger than the other one. :D

17 and getting married.. That puts some light on things..

Whats one of the top reasons a person drops out of school, If its a female, shes pregnant, if its a Male, to get a full time job to support the female..

Now that shows a serious lack of planning and stupidity.. So please let this not be your case.

Your 17 and your day trading.. Not without help from your parents or something. You can't get a account with any of the places I know of at 17, and well day trading isnt exactly proof of success in the world.

Again you toss away the whole age thing and you already have your already up to your ankles.. Your sitting here asking questions, yet you already purchased a server, you plan on using a paypal account when its clearly against there terms of service, That shows lack of planning and business sense to say the least for ANY PERSON of ANY AGE.

Well, we're engaged, and I would hope it's obvious that we're not getting married, nor would we be able to get married, at this point. I'm thinking around 5 years for marriage, then another 5 until we start considering a child.

I dropped out of school before I knew her, around a month after I met her.

It was a custodial account.
I leased a managed server, sorry if I implied differently. This is the way I learn, and I'd like to start learning.

I'm pretty positive webhosting is where I want to be. What I plan on offering itself isn't too unique, but I'm betting that the effort, way I execute it, and marketing is unique.

Tazzy, thank you for the wealth of information, and I'll definately be contacting you for some more advice

Caffling, you aren't from Ars are you? (The "oh nose", the "YACT" -> "YAWHTAT" thing, and the fact that you are a kid in Jersey getting married, it reminds of of someone I knew over there.)

Yup, this is Caffeine from ars. Kayla being the girl in question.

I feel so exposed :)

Now, how did i know Christina Aguilera
didnt complete school? :D
I look at her face reminds me of the mentaly ill.

Nothing wrong with running your own business when you are young.

I was doing playstation modchips when in highschool and was on better cash than my parents, early high school i was Dj'ing and selling mixes/megamix cd's, in late highschool it was computer repairs and the like, in college i got into alcohol, so nothing much was done in that time :) and after that i took 3 years in planning and the like before coming into the online IT industry.

I personally think the industry is saturated and new hosts are coming in with expectations which are unlikely to become realised.

Going to college is a lot of fun!!! :):):) I dont get why you would want to drop out and start your own biz unless your family can't afford to get you through college.

It also provides you with a backup. If your hosting company fails or go bankrupt, you can get another job elsewhere easily with your college degree.

Question:
How can minors work without having to do hard labor and revealing their age?

Answer:
The good 'ol internet.

Yes, I wish it would stop.

I didn't drop out to start a business. I dropped out so I could continue my education on my terms, rather than the terms of those I thought to be less intelligent, or lease motivated. I never did figure out how I could expect my teachers to be more motivated about me learning than I, and it turned out they weren't.

HostCord: You wish what woud stop? People who have delt with business their entire life, and have been groomed to start their own business someday, starting a business?

At least I'm not pushing drugs, or stealing, like most other kids my age are. I'm trying to honestly set up a business, and pump blood into it. I never said I would conceal my age, I asked what steps I needed to take to make sure everything was legal, and no one was getting screwed out of their rights, more or less.

Originally posted by Caffling
At least I'm not pushing drugs, or stealing, like most other kids my age are. I'm trying to honestly set up a business, and pump blood into it. I never said I would coceal my age, I asked what steps I needed to take to make sure everything was legal, and no one was getting screwed out of their rights, more or less.

Very true, I for one am glad to see kids doing something with their life's and not just getting high, drunk and selling drugs.

I think getting a job with another hosting company at first would be a good idea then when you have a vast knowledge, then break off and start your own company. I mean you could do it all at once if you want and if you have a good business plan, but it would help to start with another company. :)

Best of luck.

How are you leasing a server? As far as I can recall, a lease is a contract - and minors can't legally enter into contracts.

Or am I wrong?

Originally posted by Caffling
Yup, this is Caffeine from ars. Kayla being the girl in question.

I feel so exposed :)

God damn, small fscking world.

goes off to start a Lounge post about tracking down Arsians over teh intarweb

...OK, maybe not!

Q5Design: Minors can enter into contracts, however, they can break them at any time.