From what i've seen/heard VDI's going 1 way, and the original cpanel folks are going another way. Also, if you goto cpanel.net, it refers you 2 3 companies to obtain it from, Burst being the -only- one with pricing info, hell, even a mention of it.

MY question is, whats the diferences? and more importantly, whats the costs / turn around time on bug fixes, etc. Sure it looks full featured, but I've heard from other who have dug into it that its bug ridden and kludge-like. I've heard that cpanel 4 is a no go, but that BOTH VDI and this NOCSOFT are going to release replacements RSN. etc etc etc.

What -I- would like is a -Stable- control panel that will run on Linux, allow the listed features that Cpanel has, give me some control over server admin (WebMin?) and allow for resellers (ala WHM) while being both inexpensive, well debugged and well supported.

Sorry guys, but if I gotta pay $250+ a server ($3k+ a year) I might as well go spend it in 1 shot and pay a couple of Linux Geeks to hack our own together. I mean, lets look at it a bit here:

server adminiistration : Webmins free, and works on most Linux Distros no problem. Sure ya gotta do a little checking on security fixes, but ya should be up on it anyway.

Reseller setup - Haven't found anything yet, but it shouldn't be too hard for an experienced coder to take Webmin, rip it apart and recode a limited version, or write their own based on screen shots of the WHM reseller screens

Domain CPanel - ok, sure it looks real nice. Sure its skinable, IF ya dig thru alot of kludge. But does it work? I don't know. Its got alot of features (most which appear to be nothing more than hooks into free scripts. A few others seem a bit more intense, but RH specific.

Basically guys, why should anyone spend $1200+ a year on something that appears to be nothing more than some quick hacks and a pretty screen with some free scripts worked in? Please, show me where I'm wrong, blow my argument to hell. Explain why we should spend our money with you rather than rolling our own? I'm not attacking ya, I'm asking for justification of a large cash expenditure over time.

What do I want? It to work. It to be stable. It to not cost an arm and a leg and most importantly, it to work on other versions of Linux other than ancient RH 6.2. Sure a 7.1 port is nice, BUT! How about Mandrake? Debian? Slackware? All good distros, and Mandrake is RH compatable, yet i'm told Cpanel wont run on it. Why? I ask as a novice here, not an Uber-Geek. Please, show me where I'm mistaken.

Thanks!

Kaith Sutai-Rustaz,

You are absoluately right mate.

Webmin, for which you can now get skins, and third paty modules, that allow you to do batch jobs on apache and dns, which is exactly what these so called control panels do.
There are over 100 third party modules out there ranging from backup systems, to ISP control.

There is definately going to be someone out there that can code/script around webmin and make a control panel that looks user friendly.

Webmin, has all the same features, if not more features than cpanel and whm. The only thing that puts people off is the interface, and the lack of user friendly screens/procedures.

Unfortunately, i'm not much of a programmer, but if I did have the knowledge I would be more than interested in working around "webmin" to make an excellent control panel that was *FREE* note the word *FREE*.

If not FREE, then a $20-$70 licence fee, apart from this imagine all the appraisals you would get.

Theres, goto be some programmers out there.

The link for *Webmin* http://www.webmin.com/webmin/

It is not advertised, nor public knowledge really, but CPanel will run on Mandrake Linux.
We have several dedicated servers for clients running that configuration without compatibility problems.

Sean R.
BurstNET

My main problem with all of these CP costing an arm and a leg is this. First it's written just for Red Hat. What about Debian like the guy said and what about FreeBSD. You ask for $199 a month. What kind of software demands that kind of money. Man, I wish I could code, I will make allot of money. I look at other software out there today and I say to myself, this software that most good programmers can do is costing over two thousand month.

I like how CPanel look and work but I just can't see paying that much for one. I do see though that the cost has come down. Burstnet is selling it for $99 a month now. What happened. Any programmers out there willing to write some scripts? I will chip in for it.

Side note: A good NT CP will be nice too.!!! I think some of these CP's cost way too much and it definately shouldn't be charged on a monthly basis, especially if I don't have a server with you.

Just my 2 cents!;)

We surely need more study and analysis of this control panel issue.

Most of us who host dedicated servers are using some form of a control panel. Even if we are experienced enough with Linux/Unix, having a control panel does
make things faster/easier for us and we can also transfer some of the work to the end-users.

We are currently using Alabanza and their control panel.
Im not really experienced with Cpanel, webmin or Plesk and cannot comment on the comparative merits or demerits. However it would be nice to have a discussion on this.

Like many others, we too are currently looking for servers with CPanel or plesk. One crucial factor is the cost of using control panels. It does really help if we can cut the costs of using CPanel or other such control panels.

Even at a typical price of $100 per mo. It works out to
$1,200 per year / per server for a control panel. And this expense is a recurring one year after year.

In our case, we dont do any automated selling of webspace/domains from our servers and do not intend to do. So do we really need an advanced control panel ?.
What would suffice ?.

Cheers

Matra

Matra, you need to check out Webmin. I think you will like what it does for you. The url is http://www.webmin.com/webmin

We have lowered the cost to $100.00 a month. This will include all future upgrades.

VDI

Ok, so now its $100/mo, or $1200 a year, per server. Yay. :rolleyes:

Both Cpanel co reps missed the major part of my argument. Here, I'll quote it for ya again :
"Basically guys, why should anyone spend $1200+ a year on something that appears to be nothing more than some quick hacks and a pretty screen with some free scripts worked in? Please, show me where I'm wrong, blow my argument to hell. Explain why we should spend our money with you rather than rolling our own? I'm not attacking ya, I'm asking for justification of a large cash expenditure over time. "

William - Does this also include the upgrade to your new cpanel replacement i've heard about due out RSN, or just cpanel 3, which VDI's own forums mention ad falling apart at the seams?

Sean - Since its not documented, how much support can I expect in trying to get it to work if I don't colo in your NOC?

Guys, I know Burst just moved, VDI just went thru hell and the Cpanel teams reorging. But tell us why we should spend now "only" $1200 a year (<$400 if we're in 1 of the chosen NOCS) when for the same $1200 (or a 6 pack n pizza if we know a hot code-monkey) we can role our own.

I've seen the Albanza one (not bad, but mine had issues on bandwidth measurement), Plesk (not impressed) and a few others. Cpanel/WHM "Looks" like the "Right Thing", but there are serious issues present. I'm gonna be blunt - Here is the op to make us all "believe".

Tell me why everytime the servers rebooted the logs are reset making it hell for real log analysis.

Tell me why every user gets an email address at every subdomain.

Tell me if the RSN versions / replacements are going to fix all these issues and others, run fast, be portable and slice bread. Well, maybe not slice bread. :D

Guys, I'm about to drop major change on a couple of boxes, they are going to need a control panel, they are going to have to be in a stable noc, and they are gonna have to be secure. I'm not the only one here in this boat. Sell me on this. Sell them on it. Or, tell us again how it'll make chilli, but still delete email boxes on password changes. Remember, your competitions is free and expanding its user base. So again, tell me why its worth $1200 a year to me to use Cpanel/WHM?

Thank you.

Please keep in mind, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. I honestly want to know - why spend that kind of money when something almost as good (maybe better, maybe not) is free?

Is it support? Is it openness? Is it easy to tweak, skin, mod, etc? Does it help increase server security? Automate updates?

Tell us what we really get for our $$. Especially now, when the only real source of info is on Bursts site, and the FAQ link doesnt work, and the WHM parts not up yet.

Don't take my rant as a frontal assault, rather I'm basically begging you guys to sell me here.

Thank you. :cool:

Ok, found some answers in http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=10921 on Bursts side. Anyone following this thread check there too for info on the Upgrade from Cpanel3 to Cpanel4/Nocsoft from Burst.

Also has some info on the VDI side, and a partial?? who's involved.

On the VDI side there are Several teams dealing with cpanel. Professsionals who have years of experience. The VDI group is changing alot of things, to improve the Business, I`m not about to go off ranting in a forum to get bashed, so i would recommend be a VDI client and get a taste of what is about to happen :)

William,
So the VDI answer is "Come spend your money with us and THEN we will anser your questions"? Where do I find info at VDI on Cpanel? Your forums? CPanel.net whose 'no longer affiliated' with you? At least Burst has some info out and has mentioned some of the changes planned. I have a business to run and need a reliable, easy to use control panel for my clients. Now, not "RSN" when your teams get done (if they get done).

Maybe I don't want to colo my box at VDI. Maybe I want to place it in a noc where I dont get lags in excess of 1400ms. (can show documentation as recent as today). Maybe I want to run it somewhere else.

William, the big question I asked is "Why Cpanel" vs other solutions, some free. You answered "We lowered our prices" and "come host with us n see". Thats the same as me asking "What do I get for my money" and yo0u answering "well, give it to me and you'll know". I toss away a nice chunk of change, I get to answer to our shareholders. I pick a buggy klude of a poorly designed hack, and I have to answer to our customers.

And, with you avoiding the questions, why should I now want to be a VDI client? I can get left in the dark just fine by your cometition. :) (one of whom answers sales requests by issuing a support ticket. Dont know what thats about but, they weren't on our top list anyway :D )

-/sarcasm/ In closing, I guess if I want to know about the VDI cpanel I'll just have to go shell out our money and hope that somewhere between when I place my order and you guys cash our check that Zues sends Mercury to whisper in my ear what I'm getting for my money. :rolleyes: Thank you for all the help. -/sarcasm/

we have the cp manual and the whostmanger manual online.

If you would like Information on what we can offer you, what cpanel is all about, just email us.

we are in the process of turning up another OC3 monday, and we will have the information on the vdi.net site when I have viewed all the information, and tested out the additonal lines.

I`m not going to go out saying empty promises, list all the features till I have seen them operational.

Any idea how many times we have heard that clusturing and Billing was getting installed ? I`m just in the position now where i can support what we sell now.

I will be making another post on Monday - Tuesday to have some of you answer a few questions.

Thanks once again for trying make a negitive post.

William,
My goal was never to make a negative post about your company. I asked what I perceve to be a series of questions to answer issues that myself and other have concerning the whole issue of cpanel. I titled it in such a way as to ensure the major players read it. They did. I wanted answers. I got very few. I upped the attack a hair, still begging for answers. I now finally got some. And I owe you an apology. I failed to realize that you might have been as fed up with the bugs/delays, etc as any of us out here.

I'm going to answer my own questions now, with what I'd hoped you, or Burst, or whoever would have said with what -I- want in a server/domain control panel system:

Less bugs, rapid bug fixes, portable to other OS's, 24/7 support if theres an issue, well writen documentation, a friendly ready-to-help attitude from the software provider, and affordable prices. Reseller support (which I think whm/cpanel is the only package out that does it), excellent server control, security checks and updates. Justification that I'm not just renting an ap, but have the confidence that its really an investment, not an expence.

I myself am just as tired of the empty promises. I'm also tired of the flat out lies, the company ceos who call you, spin you a nice yarn about how great things will be soon, then sell the company out from under you to another company struggling with their own issues (Not VDI). I'm tired of getting calls about why when a user changes an email password, it deletes their mailbox, or why they now have dozens of strange email addresses pointing to all their subdomains, or why it says "licence expired", or hearing "well you guys were down -again-, we're leaving" and its not us, its not our server, its bloody alter.net farting itself again, or uunet, or some podunk little isp in east mudlick. :angry:
William, I'm sorry. Maybe I took out my frustrations on you, when I perceved a lack of answers, or more accurately, an avoidence.

Please, post em when you have em. Just keep in mind, sometimes, just saying "hey, things are changing, and I'd prefer not to say much til I got it 100% sure this time" is better than not saying anything at all. It makes us paranoid types, umm, paranoid? :)

Hello. Are you still offering the $100 per server for cpanel if it isnt in your noc? How is your new version coming?

You can get in touch with me - ICQ or call ect..

Hey Guys,

Something to look at (found when discussing dedicated servers with someone):

its a cpanel prog with multiple levels of management

http://www.sphera.com

if it can actually produce what it says, then it looks VERY good......

my 2c

Dan

Also expensive.... but good.

<<EDIT>>

Jag,

I don't think your post is appropriate here at all. And even without links or details it will be viewed as an advertisement.
The post of Saxy wasn't appropriate either, as I truly believe the thread is about Cpanel (both versions) not about other panels, which are all great.

Really ? I didn't think it was any different than any of the other posts by Bill or any of the other guys above. Sorry

Difference is that Bill represents Cpanel (one of the split up versions), which is discussed here.

Well Im sorry....

From the sound of the tone of the posts, some people arent ABLE to find a decent control panel, and they were failing to mention other ones....

I only found out about sphera yesterday, so I dont know ACTUALLY how good it is (not an advertisement).

So anyway, if you want to keep the topic on Cpanel only, then you should redirect the posts to do so, or state it explicitly in the title.

I think these posts ARE appropriate as they broaden the scope, providing (possibly unknown) information on other products.

Keep this a happy place, not a flaming place,

Dan

Saxy, seems fine to me. Other cp's were being discussed. I did however edit promotion that didn't fit the thread (which note, is a tad bit old).

Originally posted by Chicken
Saxy, seems fine to me. Other cp's were being discussed. I did however edit promotion that didn't fit the thread (which note, is a tad bit old).

That wasn't something I posted was it? Anyway , back to business.