I am starting to think I am expecting too much of my managed hosting provider - if you think I am, please be gentle with me ;)

Brand new server with a managed server host.

Signed the contracts a 6 days ago.

So far have had 5 tickets, made several phone calls, and I am still not at a point where I consider the server ready for websites :(

1) Control panel was not installed - had to ask for it to be installed.
2) I have had the OS replaced, as it was the wrong version quoted by sales.
3) FrontPage extenions not installed - had to request them.
4) Control panel would not work after OS re-install, had to wait a day for them to fix the key.

They then told me that the sever was fully patched, up to the day it was re-installed. Excellent I thought - until I checked the versions of PHP, MySQL, apache etc. These had all be upgraded by Redhat over recent weeks, but my server was still behind. :bawling:

In fact when when I did a check against RedHats site, I found almost 70 updates that were waiting to be done.

So am I expecting too much? Should I expect my server to be fully patched and up to date?

I went with them, because of their high quality support - yet am less than impressed so far :(

I now have another engineer, who will go through every patch on Redhats site, and install if required - but surely if their install CD was up to date he should not have to do that?

I am almost scared to tell tham that webstats & webmail do not work under plesk :(

I do not wish to be branded as a pain, in case they do not assist - but all I ask for is a machine that I can take forward.

In fairness to them, they have upgraded the plesk licence for free, and said they will credit me for the initial 2 or 3 days that I was down for.

But I need to have a server, that I can run sites for clients on with confidence. I was told by one tech, that they could install newer versions of software, for $150/hr and that if I dared to install anything that broke the server they would never touch that feature again :( With comments like that I do not think I am being unreasonable in asking for my server to be fully patched - especially as it is a managed sever...

.... or am I ???

I'd drop them if you could. It doesn't sound good to me and them telling you your server was patched when it wasn't seems to just be a downright lie (although perhaps there was some mixup).

To me, the response time people give with small things like you have above are an indicator to how they'll behave in an emergency. And if they're breaking things now when they "update" things, that'll be a much more serious problem when you get customers on the server.

However, if you're not willing to drop them, just telling them you're worried might smarten them up.

Who are you with? I'd like to know, because of the descriptions of prices for support and what they're doing for you - it sounds like Rackspace.com - I've been planning on going with them, but that sounds kinda bad.


If you're with them and you're paying $500+ a month.. you're paying for their support. So I'd say you're not asking too much.

I don't want to seem quick to defend your provider, but some control panels are really picky about what OS they run on, and updates to the OS.

I can see that you're using Plesk, but let's pretend that the similarities between Plesk and Ensim are close. So let's say you're using Ensim, which is very familiar to us at Tilted. You're going to be more or less locked into Ensim's upgrade/update path for RedHat. If you vary from Ensim's path, you might have lots of problems down the road trying to keep up with updates and upgrades. I've also seen "managed hosting providers" using Ensim ServerXchange (something like Plesk Enterprise Manager) to keep a bank of deployed servers updated to Ensim's standards, but IMHO, that's far from truly "managed" hosting. Ensim tends to lag behind by at /least/ a few weeks, sometimes months, on security fixes and updates.

There are limits to what your host can do for you, especially considering the technology that they're using, and in turn, offering to their clients. Varying from the development tree will require lots of manual tweaking immediately and down the road.

If this is the scenario you've fallen into, it's not really 100% your provider's fault. Much of the fault attributable to your host would be regarding disclosure of the technology used, and how updates and patches would be handled. This should have been spelled out in your contract. You do have a managed hosting agreement that you reviewed and signed, don't you?

I highly doubt that you will be able to find a provider that can meet your above-listed expectations in a timely manner for anywhere less than $600/mo (with server fees and bandwidth included). You're looking for skilled man-hours, and it comes at a price. If you're paying less than that, then there is either automation in place (eg, ServerXchange or PEM) or someone is cutting corners somewhere.

If you're asking your host to bypass Plesk's expectations of the operating system and to tweak things, there /must/ be a disclaimer and informed consent involved. If there are going to be repercussions to upgrades or modifications down the line, you need to know about it before the upgrades or modifications are done. I can see exactly where your provider's discomfort is coming from. These mods can sometimes have a tendency to become resource hogs, and the last thing a provider needs is a server that needs 24x7x365 handholding and babysitting. Their position on "no warranties, no liability" is justified, IMHO.

Either way, go through your contract, and either hold your host to it, or call it a breach and move on.

George

Originally posted by tilted
I don't want to seem quick to defend your provider, but some control panels are really picky about what OS they run on, and updates to the OS.

I can see that you're using Plesk, but let's pretend that the similarities between Plesk and Ensim are close. So let's say you're using Ensim, which is very familiar to us at Tilted. You're going to be more or less locked into Ensim's upgrade/update path for RedHat. If you vary from Ensim's path, you might have lots of problems down the road trying to keep up with updates and upgrades. I've also seen "managed hosting providers" using Ensim ServerXchange (something like Plesk Enterprise Manager) to keep a bank of deployed servers updated to Ensim's standards, but IMHO, that's far from truly "managed" hosting. Ensim tends to lag behind by at /least/ a few weeks, sometimes months, on security fixes and updates.


Plesk can be used whit redhat Up2date whit no problem,
its matter of some min to patch completly the server whit up2date....

just up2date -u (for plesk std you have to put bind,apache,perl in the skip list)

just my 2 cents ;-)

Thanks for the responses.

I hope they can sort everything out - as the last thing I want is for my box to be hacked as a result of a patch that was not installed, or a script to fail due to old software versions.

I feel a bit more confident of running the up2date as well - I have the rpm version of plesk.

Thanks.

GG

Originally posted by Gentle Giant
Thanks for the responses.

I hope they can sort everything out - as the last thing I want is for my box to be hacked as a result of a patch that was not installed, or a script to fail due to old software versions.

I feel a bit more confident of running the up2date as well - I have the rpm version of plesk.

Thanks.

GG

No prob...

For the Rpm you can upgrade everyting even the Kernel
i never got a problem... ;)

But if you pay for managed box the host should do that for you...

Is job is to make sure your box are Secure & patched at ALL TIME!!

You pay for it so ....;)

Exactly what I thought - I have deliberately not said who my provider is, so that they do not get slagged off here - but when you pay a premium price, you expect a premium service. :bawling:

We make it a habit to wait at least 60 days before adding an update. There have been plenty of udpates and patches that when they first come out do more harm than good.

While I don't really understand why your company is 70 patches behind, (sounds like they have a very old OS CD) I think most quality hosting services don't just jump in with the newest updates as soon as they come out.

A good example are the cobalts. On those, if you would of installed most patches as soon as they came out, you would be driving yourself and your clients insane by now.

Overall, there is nothing wrong being 1 or 2 patches behind on a server. Better to make sure the update is stable than to screw a server up.

Originally posted by Gentle Giant
Exactly what I thought - I have deliberately not said who my provider is, so that they do not get slagged off here - but when you pay a premium price, you expect a premium service. :bawling:


I think its a good thing to put is name here :stickout:

This is the way other can know Who is good and who is not !!

Very Helpfull for other...:D

If the host not give what is expected you have
to post is name :-)

Other will learn from that !!

Trust me , if got a problem whit my provider i will Stick here and not shy to put is name :) But very Happy since now Btw :D

Originally posted by mgphoto
We make it a habit to wait at least 60 days before adding an update. There have been plenty of udpates and patches that when they first come out do more harm than good.

While I don't really understand why your company is 70 patches behind, (sounds like they have a very old OS CD) I think most quality hosting services don't just jump in with the newest updates as soon as they come out.

A good example are the cobalts. On those, if you would of installed most patches as soon as they came out, you would be driving yourself and your clients insane by now.

Overall, there is nothing wrong being 1 or 2 patches behind on a server. Better to make sure the update is stable than to screw a server up.

I agree 100% with what you say, as I also have good experience of RaQ's - but when a tech says to you 'I assure you 1000% your server is fully patched' (no not a typo in the figure), and then you find that 69 patches are required, you start to wonder who to believe. :(

GG

It'd depend on how much you pay a month IMO. It sounds like you want every single patch/update that comes out installed ASP which means makes it sound like you want a personal tech (which don't matter ..) but if it's under $300-500 a month I doubt you'd find anyone willing to do that.

If he is with who I think he is... you're paying anywhere from $250 - $10,000 a month....

Even at $250 a month, you get a personal dedicated support team. two techs, two account managers.

that is if he is with who I think he is.