<EDIT:

I beleive we have received enough offers, if we require more, then we will repost. Thank you all for perticipating.

MOD's please close this thread.

END EDIT>

Interesting job, to bad I don't live in the USA. May I ask why this is a must?

Because we must be able to contact you by phone.

Ah, ok :)

I would be interested, you can contact at csparks@interseen.com

We are still looking, is anyone else interested?

Thanks!

The job is still open, anyone else interested?
You would start Feb. 24, 2003.

email sent.

i would put my hand up but you said you need to live in the states so....

i am roman catholic :P

Thank you, I will be expecting your email.

I know I keep repeating my self, but the job is still open, and will be open for a little while, a few days at least.

Yes, we are looking for within the United States

i will apply, I want the job myself
i live in the US, have been a webmaster since 1994, over 18 years of age, have all the skills you need.

I am christian and can give you my phone number if you PM me.
will work up to 20 hours a month for the 120.00

If you haven't filled the position, I'd be willing to help you with it.
I am not a US citizen, but I'm getting a 1-800 number you could use to contact me via phone.

I am 18+

Thanks,
Dave

Requirements:
Judeo-Christian Ethics


not to rag on your practices or anything, but isn't that discrimination based on creed?

ub3r has a good point.

Actually, in this case it would probably be better described as a "skill"... meaning it is nessasary for that position because of the knowledge associatied with being a Christian.

Futhermore, it does not say that being a Christian is required for this position, so I would say they are safe saying that. (but I'm no lawyer so don't hold me to that)

Hi Mind-Field,

To keep yourself safe, either take off that "Judeo Christian Ethics" requirement or reword it to say "knowledge of Judeo Christian ethics" or "solid familiarity with Judeo Christian ethic and moral code". That makes ***knowledge*** of the ethics - and how they would work and be reflected through your company's site - a requirement for the job; but skirts the issue of what creed an individual follows. I have family in HR - trust me on this one. It will keep you out of hot water (which is all to the good.)

Hello,

I am sorry for my absence, I am back now.

The requirement "Judeo Christian Ethics" is a requirement.
Our organization is a Christian based, and we wish not to have any employee's that are not the same.

Please forgive me for posting that requirement, but that is not "discrimination based on creed", it is a simple requirement.

The job position is still open, if anyone else is interested.

Thank you!

The requirement "Judeo Christian Ethics" is a requirement.
Our organization is a Christian based, and we wish not to have any employee's that are not the same.

I am not personally offending by this, but this is going to be a problem for you.

Making statements that you DO NOT WISH TO HAVE EMPLOYEE'S THAT ARE NOT THE SAME - is NOT LEGAL in any sense of the law, and you are opening yourself up to a whole world of legal problems.

Not to mention, I am supprised the MODS don't delete the post - this is the same as saying a certain race need not apply for the job. You just can't legally do this.

Aside from the fact that (as intraweb pointed out) it's illegal in the United States, as it is discrimination based upon creed, the primary Judeo-Christian ethic is tolerance and love of one's neighbour. Exclusion based on a person's following or not following a certain religion seems to run counter to the Christian ideal.

[rant on]
Actually, I believe that religious organizations are exempt from that law. Are you going to tell a Church that they cannot say that they want to hire a Baptist for their Baptist Church? A Luthern would have different views than a Baptist. So would a Catholic or an Atheist.

So if they want someone to build a website about and for Christians, and maybe a particular denomination, don't you think it's their right to have someone that believe's the same things that they do.

I may be off, but can tend to side with Mind-Field. If I'm claiming to promote Christian ethics on my website, but I hire someone to develop my website that works on porn websites, then my ethics don't mean anything.
[rant off]

Matthew Shields
Cyberbite Web Hosting
matt@cyberbite.com
http://www.cyberbite.com
Like PHP? Check out PHP|architect magazine. www.phparch.com

Actually the issue with hiring is real simple.

Unless being male, female, black, white, etc., is a SPECIFIC requirement of th job - they cannot disriminate.

Example: A movie requires a female black actress - they have the right to refuse male white actors. The job is for a person of a specific background.

However in this case, one's religious beliefs are irrelevant. They might have to have a knowledge of Christian content to work on the site, though. That is a job requirement. Actually BEING that particular religion has nothing to do with the job.

Religious organizations are NOT exempt from discrimination laws on age, sex, religous background, etc., Same rules apply for hiring.

Originally posted by intraweb
Religious organizations are NOT exempt from discrimination laws on age, sex, religous background, etc., Same rules apply for hiring.

That's not what I said, I said(in other words) religious organizations are exempt from religious discrimination.

If my Church want's to hire a Baptist preacher, and you're Catholic, I guaruntee that you will not get the job, and if you try to sue your case will (probably) get thrown out of court because the job posting specifically stated that the position was for someone with a VERY specific belief.

If, as a business owner, I state that I will only hire people with the same belief's as me, that's my God given right to do so, and no one, not even the US government can tell me otherwise.

And even if you do try to sue me, the chances of you winning are slim to none, because I could easily justify that I hired someone with more skill that just happened to be Christian and that you are just sueing me because you happened to not get the job and are jealous. Right. Prove me wrong, because that's what a judge will say, you have to prove that you are more competent than the person I hired.

cyberbite,

Thank you for your words. I am sorry that half of your post count has gone to this thread and you had to jump into the negativity so quickly as a new member. Welcome to the forum:)

And is it illegal to say I will not host adult content? It is the same thing but in a different situation.

Whether it's 'illegal' or not it IS discrimination and is wrong.

Whatever happened to all men being equal in the eye of god ?

Originally posted by my_forum_id
Whether it's 'illegal' or not it IS discrimination and is wrong.

In this case however, it is a skill that is NEEDED to correctly perform the job offered. It's not about being equal...

You guys are so eager to pounce on anyone that you think is doing something wrong. Give him a break!

Thank you Rudy...

no, it is not illegal to say you will not host adult content. There are thousands of internet providers that say just that. I won't host any of it, it's personal preference, and it's my business.

Whatever happened to all men being equal in the eye of god ?
Yes, all men are created equal in the eyes of God. But we as American's also have freedom of choice. What's the point of having values, morals and freedom if you can't act on them. If my freedom doesn't mean the freedom to choose who I want to work for me, or not to then what's the point??? If you are going to start dicating how I should live my life, then we (American's) are no better off than communists.

Why is it everyone is so sue crazy that as soon as they see something like this they want to sue, sue, sue. Why can't we all just get along. You complain that Christian's force our belief's down you're throats, but then you bash us when we only want to hire people that believe what we do. I have nothing against people who aren't Christian, some of my family isn't, but I find it really annoying that you are bashing someone for his beliefs, and then you expect him to hire you. That in itself is grounds for religious discrimination, now I want to sue you because you don't like my beliefs.

Put it this way, if you had a very strong belief against pornography, would you take the job? A lot of people wouldn't. See where we're going with this. Why would you want to work for a job where you

Actually, I don't think that these people are necessarily bashing; nor do they necessarily expect or want to be hired for this position. They may simply (as I was) seeing

1) a person setting their company up for potential legal trouble, and want to help them avoid this;

and / or

2) a person engaging in behaviour that they find antisocial, namely discrimination, and want to see such behaviour discouraged.

Or there may be other reasons - probably a slightly different one for every poster that has replied to this thread.

I personally think that by excluding non-Christians, they are both turning off some Christians who may find such behaviour unwarrantedly zealous and exclusionary, as well as living up to some of the negative stereotypes that Christians have gotten courtesy of a media that feeds the public appetites for sensationalism. I also think that the behaviour isn't as tolerant, as open, as sharing - as Christian - as it could be.

The one thing I don't understand, if they are trying to help our company avoid a legal battle, then why don't you send me a PM or email. That is the problem with WHT (not anyone specific, just in general) they say everything in the open (most likely because they have text in front of them and a computer, and anger etc, cannot be heard thru words (it can, but not to the vocal extent) and then it ruins the post because it goes off into a different direction and may even ruin the postee, which even if you ask them and keep asking to go back to the original subject, is doesn't happen.

So, I am going to ask nicely, PLEASE let's get back to the original subject, and continue any further negative inquiries to my PM or the listed email address.

Thank you all very much for your help!

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination in many more aspects of the employment relationship. It applies to most employers engaged in interstate commerce with more than 15 employees, labor organizations, and employment agencies. The Act prohibits discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin. Sex includes pregnancy, childbirth or related medical conditions. It makes it illegal for employers to discriminate in hiring, discharging, compensation, or terms, conditions, and privileges of employment. Employment agencies may not discriminate when hiring or referring applicants. Labor Organizations are also prohibited from basing membership or union classifications on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

Referrence: Click Here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/employment_discrimination.html)

How I read it is if your company has less than 15 employees you could be exempt.

Well, does it?

Your religion is protected, and so is the workforce you are querying so I do believe you are breaking the law by offering a "Webmaster Job" that discriminates based on religion.

You posted the offer publicly, and you're rebuked publicly. Concede or stay in darkness, your choice.

That is the problem with WHT (not anyone specific, just in general) they say everything in the open (most likely because they have text in front of them and a computer, and anger etc, cannot be heard thru words (it can, but not to the vocal extent)

This cracks me up! I have had this problem with a lot of people on the board. They say 'why did you discuss this public'

I hate to tell everyone that this is a PUBLIC message board and discussing things in open is what makes WHT great.

To tell you the honest truth, we have no employees and an independent contractor.

I donate my time, and a couple other people do too, we do pay an independent contractor (which we are replacing) to manage the TARTSG.com web site. Now, since I have given the facts, can this discussion end, and can we get back to the meaning of this thread?

Thank you!

Who is we =), how many people would you consider "We"

It maybe public but, it seems like some people (again, not pointing fingers) are set out to ruin someone's name, I think most posts on almost all of the WHT members are defending their thread or trying to ruin it, does this show a pattern?

Thank you!

we= meaning more then one person, usually meaning company in my case.

So you're going to stay in the dark.

I would encourage anyone applying for this position to actually check who is involved, how many people that are actually behind it as I believe that this offer does indeed break U.S. law


Nobody is "Out to get you", you aren't being followed and there is no conspiracy here.

You've posted a requirement that the applicant be from the US.

Within that post you posted that a requirement be of a religious discrimination.

You're not special here, you could be breaking the law and you have raised more than enough suspicions pointing to that fact.

Quit hiding under WHT and come clean here, you're not helping it and me being outspoken about it is because I actually want the rights of the United States citizens to be upheld, whether you like it or not.

In all seriousness - my assessment of the post is that it more than likely violates the law to require a particular religion based on what your needs are.

Even more bold is how you worded the post.

Let's use a church for instance.

If a Catholic Church post's a job opening for Catholic Priest, and a Baptist comes in or post's about the job position opening, then is it illegal to deny him/her? If you say no, then why do you keep on with this thread?

Thank you!

you're hopeless.

You're contracting united states citizens, but you're discriminating against a large portion of them.

Every citizen pays taxes, you can't discriminate based on religion.

Let's use a church for instance.

If a Catholic Church post's a job opening for Catholic Priest, and a Baptist comes in or post's about the job position opening, then is it illegal to deny him/her? If you say no, then why do you keep on with this thread?

I am not sure you understand. In your example above, you DO have a legal right to disqualify the Baptist. In your example, being Catholic is a specific requirement for the job. You obviously can not be a Catholic priest, unless you are Catholic.

This is the critical area here. Is your job posting critical to be a specific religion? If the answer is NO, then it would be consider discrimination. Is it critical to be Christian, or just have Christian knowledge to perform the job. This is the question that determines the legality - at least in my interpretation.

I won't make that call, but that is basically what it comes down to.