Hi. I'm thinking about signing up for this private registration service at GoDaddy. I'm wondering if anyone else has used Domains by Proxy. How are you ensured that you maintain full ownership of the domain? Are there other companies like this? I'd hate to shell out $45 / year for a PO Box that I don't really need. But it'd be nice to hide the whois.

Thanks.

Originally posted by windsor
But it'd be nice to hide the whois.Why?

Originally posted by thatguy
Why?
I use PO BOX because I like to keep my home address out of the WHOIS. I'm not a hosting company just a consumer. When I first was using my address I was getting a lot of junk mail from web hosting companies and others and the name addressed was how I listed it in the WHOIS (first initial and last name). I also don't like the idea that anyone could use my home address on the whois and have directions using mapquest!

When you HIDE your whois info using the so-called proxy service, people will start guessing WHY. If you are running a business website, doing this does not help build your clients' confidence in you, esp. for start-up's or small businesses.

So unless you are just registering a name or two, why spend $9 per year per domain when you can as posted here get a mailbox for just $45 a year? You WILL use it. Sign up for special promotions, freebies and lucky draws with that address. :D

Originally posted by arpmn
I use PO BOX because I like to keep my home address out of the WHOIS. I'm not a hosting company just a consumer. When I first was using my address I was getting a lot of junk mail from web hosting companies and others and the name addressed was how I listed it in the WHOIS (first initial and last name). How would that change if you use a PO box?

I also don't like the idea that anyone could use my home address on the whois and have directions using mapquest!Hrmm..think someone's out to get you? A valid point, but a tiny bit paranoid. :eek: :D
Thanks.

[i]So unless you are just registering a name or two, why spend $9 per year per domain when you can as posted here get a mailbox for just $45 a year? You WILL use it. Sign up for special promotions, freebies and lucky draws with that address. :D [/B]It's just for my one personal domain. I'm not trying to hide from anything in particular. I just thought maybe it'd be better if I didn't provide my street address for security/privacy. And I'm not too keen on giving out false contact info. :)

The thing with PO boxes is that they always end up getting a lot of junk mail. I used to have one until I realized I didn't need the limo offers, lasik promotions, supermarket ads, etc. And it's not like I'd check it every day so all the mail gets crammed in there. In a way, I shelled out $45 just to get a few interesting offers I never ended up pursuing. :stickout: But anyway, it looks like I may end up getting a box again. Nobody seems to have used these proxy services!

I agree with Nameslave if you have a business you don't want to hide your address. That's why I was sure to mention that my comments where as a consumer not a hosting company.

I don't check my PO Box everyday so I don't have to deal with the junk mail in my home and if I ever dump the PO Box it's done. Once they have your home address it's junk mail forever.

Yea a little paranoid--you just never know! :look:

I use the P.O. box for my Ebay stuff. Works nice. I just like keeping my home address private that's all. I don't think its worthwhile to pay GoDaddy extra for that though.

>thatguy: Hrmm..think someone's out to get you? A valid point, but a tiny bit paranoid.

I once got a threatening snailmail at my contact address (thankfully that's not my home) cos the stupid guy thought the spam he got was coming from my domain.

I tracked that person down (told you he's stupid guy) just in case but did nothing. Nothing has happened later, happy ending.

I wonder how they word their agreement to provide this service for people because according to what I know of registering domain names, the person listed as registrant and admin pretty much own the name. There must be some specific agreement in place that prevents them from running away with people's domain names or something. Anybody know for sure? :cool:

>VoxKeysGtr: There must be some specific agreement in place that prevents them from running away with people's domain names or something.

THEM are called GoDaddy.com. It's like signing a Power of Attorney. You'll have to trust at least somebody to do that. :)

Here's their agreement:

https://www.domainsbyproxy.com/popup/DomainNameProxyAgreement.htm#gd

Originally posted by nameslave
>thatguy: Hrmm..think someone's out to get you? A valid point, but a tiny bit paranoid.

I once got a threatening snailmail at my contact address (thankfully that's not my home) cos the stupid guy thought the spam he got was coming from my domain.If that ever happens (and you're in the US) pass that on to the feds (FBI or local postmaster). Threats via postal mail is serious stuff, and they might just spank the guy. :D

Originally posted by arpmn
Here's their agreement:

https://www.domainsbyproxy.com/popup/DomainNameProxyAgreement.htm#gd

Thanks arpmn. :cool:

Man, I wonder how much they paid their lawyers to write that thing. It's long. It does seem that you have to give them the ownership of the name:

You understand and agree that DBP has the absolute right and power, in its sole discretion and without any liability to You whatsoever, to either: (i) close Your account and transfer ownership of a domain name back to

It says that when the agreement ends they have to transfer the ownership of the domain back to you.

Originally posted by arpmn
Here's their agreement:

https://www.domainsbyproxy.com/popup/DomainNameProxyAgreement.htm#gd Thanks for the link. Their agreement doesn't sound very assuring. This "insurance" has to be claimed through them and they don't even guarantee that you'd get your domain back if someone hijacked it. And the thought of lawyers is giving me a headache. That PO box looks like the best option. :D

>thatguy: If that ever happens (and you're in the US) pass that on to the feds (FBI or local postmaster). Threats via postal mail is serious stuff, and they might just spank the guy.

I ALMOST called the police. (I'm in Canada.) But since that guy was so stupid that he left clues as to who he really was, I just did nothing.

There's another incident in which a doctor of some sort sent me a threatening e-mail (for the same reason: I run a free web-based e-mail back then). I forwarded his mail to his superior, and you know what: A meeting was called because of this, and I later got an apology both from the organization and the stupid guy (yet another stupid guy). I guess he probably wouldn't get any promotion in the next few years. :D

No problem (re: providing link)! I agree with you that their agreement isn't very comforting. If I was on the fence about their proxy service that long agreement would scare me away! I thought it was pretty confusing. I'm sure they count on the fact that most people don't read agreements/AUP/TOS/etc.

hmm..just wondering how much a PO BOX costs? (is it indeed $45?) im in so cal :)

Not for me in Minnesota. With Mail Boxes Etc. price varies depending if you sign up for 3-months, six months, or 12 months like hosting! In MN: Small box (3-1/2x5x14) is $45 for 3-months; $72 for six and $120 for 12-months. So if you go for the year it ends up at $10 per month. He also gave me 3-months free for signing up. Prices also vary between different Mail Boxes Etc. There are two of them within 3 miles of my home and the other one was slightly more expensive and he didn't offer the free months for sign up.

If you get a US Postal service mailbox it will be cheaper but you don't have service. With MBE you can call and ask if you have mail before going in. You can use the their street address and they accept UPS-FedEx packages for you and you have 24-hour access to your box (again this depends on the MBE as they are all independently owned). Using the street address is nice when ordering stuff since most place won't ship to PO box. You can also list their street address and use suite 200 instead of PO Box 200. Nice for small business I would think.

Thanks, guess I'll just have to look into it :)

Originally posted by PixelOptik
hmm..just wondering how much a PO BOX costs? (is it indeed $45?) im in so cal :) It's $45 here in NY. Highway robbery :angry:

You can inquire about rates at a post office near you - click here (http://www.mapsonus.com/db/USPS/) for address/phone number.

windsor - thanks for the help :)

Why not just lie in your whois info? That's what I do. That info is none of anyone's d@&* business.

:eek: :eek2: :eek3:

What? I've been doing it for years.

The point of having a web site is that I don't DO business on the phone or at an address - requiring that info be public is a ridiculous government intrusion.

:eek3: :eek2: :eek: :cartman:

Congress might be passing some law requiring valid domain contact info for law enforcement. link (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2002/05/whois.htm)

And if you don't use valid info, your domain can be hijacked much more easily. Your choice.

Hmmm mandatory ID cards would be great for law enforcement too.. how far away are those?

How would that make it easier to hijack?

Originally posted by gleen
Hmmm mandatory ID cards would be great for law enforcement too.. how far away are those?Alarmist thinking. There must be a balance between law enforcement and privacy.
How would that make it easier to hijack? The contact info dictates who the owner of the domain is.

I use to enter false info also like 123 Private Address but in the TOS of the registrars you agree to provide accurate address information in order to comply with ICANN. Therefore by putting fake address info you open yourself up to the possibility of loosing your domain to the registrar. The equivalent of having your account terminated by your host for violating terms. Fair or unfair that's just the way it is. I don't want to risk loosing my domains nor do I want my home address on the WHOIS thus the PO box for me. I doubt GoDaddy or whoever you use looks for this thus the threat of legislation from Congress but lets say someone wants your domain sees in the WHOIS the fake info they can contact the registrar in an attempt to take your domain (as noted earlier I'm a bit paranoid). I don't want to deal with that.

>gleen: What? I've been doing it for years.

Lucky that you have NOT publicized your domain(s) here. If not, you'd probably lost them all very soon.

>gleen: The point of having a web site is that I don't DO business on the phone or at an address - requiring that info be public is a ridiculous government intrusion.

It has NOTHING to do with the government. I can't imagine doing business with someone who LIES about even his or her contact info ... :confused:

>gleen: The point of having a web site is that I don't DO business on the phone or at an address - requiring that info be public is a ridiculous government intrusion.

With all the scams, rip off artists, warez-hacker-child porn site etc. on the Internet the consumers have a right to be protected. The government has been hands off so far but the more shady people are on the Internet the more people complain the more the government will feel it necessary to go in and regulate if the self-regulation doesn’t work. Requiring real address information is mostly aimed towards businesses online not personal sites (IMO). If your doing business online you shouldn’t want to hide your contact info anyway. Personal sites are just swept in and must comply. A company offline can’t provide fake address information why should an online business? If I’m doing business online and all they provide me with is an email address then we won’t do business. I’m just supposed to send you money and trust you? That’s a rhetorical question no reply necessary and don’t ask me to send you money. :D

I see where you're all coming from, but I disagree - if I am in a business where my address is important, then my address should be available. I am not - where I live has nothing to do with where my server is, or how I do business. My company is not big enough to have phone support yet, and I do NOT want the general public calling me at home - this HAS happened before when I listed the correct info. This is a dangerous, ill conceived, pointless system. I'll bet 95% of domains are owned by people without a business address or phone number. Forcing them to list their HOME address and phone number is just wrong.

And - I don't ask them to trust me with their money. I ask them to trust my merchant account provider and their credit card provider, who will certainly protect them. And I doubt any of my customers will care in the slightest what my whois info says. So where is the justification for this system? Fraud will exist with or without privacy and personal freedom. You would choose to give them up for an unknown and questionable benefit? Especially questionable if you are trusting the whois system, which has no verifiable accuracy. I am surprised how easily you are all willing to give up your privacy and freedom.

My domains are currently using 123 blah st or something like that, but I see maybe I will have to change them to appear correct, and just say I moved if a problem comes up.

>gleen: ... if you are trusting the whois system, which has no verifiable accuracy ...

I guess you must have missed this interesting episode:

http://www.icann.org/correspondence/touton-letter-to-beckwith-03sep02.htm

That was very interesting nameslave! I do wish that ICANN would give the option of allowing the domain owner to be "unlisted" to the public in the WHOIS. Similar to what the phone companies do. Although the phone company charges now to have an unlisted phone number. But that would cut down on people entering fake data for the whois record. I sent a that suggeston to ICANN I'm sure they'll never read it or care about it or exempting personal sites from this. I'm sure that would make it to hard to manage.

Originally posted by gleen
I'll bet 95% of domains are owned by people without a business address or phone number. Forcing them to list their HOME address and phone number is just wrong.So you use a post office box. I wouldn't set up another phone line just for whois. In any event, the law always comes down to what's written on paper, not e-mail. Hence you should use a valid mailing address.

where is the justification for this system? Fraud will exist with or without privacy and personal freedom. You would choose to give them up for an unknown and questionable benefit?Fraud will always exist, but the whole point is to minimize the number of fraud cases. And of course the whois system, in its current state, has no verifiable accuracy. But you risk losing it if someone questions who the owner of the domain is.

I guess you must have missed this interesting episode:

http://www.icann.org/correspondence...ith-03sep02.htm
Nope, I saw that. I think that illustrates my point. They were only able to catch the people who put "123 yellow brick road". But how would you or they know I don't live at "3241 Edgewater Dr."?

I can't afford a PO box just in case the Man wants to hassle me, I can barely pay rent and hosting.
If I provide a valid email, and I have the password to an account with the registrar, I don't think there would be any problem with losing it.

I wouldn't set up another phone line just for whois. So what do you do, use your home phone or fake it?

I could always give them my neighbors phone number, I'm sure he'll let me know if he gets a call about my site :)

Originally posted by gleen
But how would you or they know I don't live at "3241 Edgewater Dr."?I understand. :) I think it comes down to how important that domain is to you. If it's a personal domain or one you're just squatting on, then having a valid e-mail is just fine. If it's a business domain or really valuable/important one, then a PO box is IMHO worth the hassle.

So what do you do, use your home phone or fake it?I use work number for some domains, fake it for others. :)

I wish I had a work number. Wait a minute, that would mean I'd have to get a job! :)

Hey windsor,..

What i would suggest doing, is putting of course a valid email address and a valid phone numbers on the records,..

however, as far as address goes, i would put something like "i've been getting too much spam in my PO box, so email or phone me if you need to send me something"


easy as that

I reckon that should be FINE,... I also reckon that's totally Legal.

GOOD LUCK :)

Hey Gleen check out:

http://www.k7.net/about.htm

K7.net provides free voicemail (Seattle area code). You can record your own message and everything. Someone leaves you a message and you receive an email. It's pretty sweet. For about $2 per month you can even get a toll free number but I just use the free number with a Seattle area code.

however, as far as address goes, i would put something like "i've been getting too much spam in my PO box, so email or phone me if you need to send me something"
I'd like to hear the registrar's point of view on that. I wrote a few of them about this and have heard nothing back so far.

http://www.k7.net/about.htm
Wow that's pretty cool for free. One of those things that will start charging after they get the user base they want? They really ought to use mp3 instead of PCM.

Originally posted by gleen
Wow that's pretty cool for free. One of those things that will start charging after they get the user base they want? They really ought to use mp3 instead of PCM.

I've been using them for about six months so let's hope it stays free. I think they have it so you use their toll free #'s or vanity numbers which they charge. If they do start charging they're couple others like efax for voicemail/fax but K7.net is the only that lets you record your own outgoing message that I've seen (post Internet bubble burst).

Here is the response I got from Dotster about this - GoDaddy and Enom ignored me.

It is an ICANN legal requirement that correct and complete Whois information be displayed for every registered domain. If your contact information is inaccurate or incomplete, and ICANN or Dotster receives a complaint regarding it, we are authorized to shut down your domain.
Now I doubt they would shut down a domain without trying to contact you, but just in case I would avoid 123 bigbrothersucks st.

I noticed dotster offers free spam protection for domain owners through PrivacyPost, that's something.

I have a free fax number with efax.com. I have it in my whois info. You could put the free fax number in both the fax and voice entries. It sends the fax to your email acct, and there is a small software program to install on your PC for reading them (with some ads, no big deal).

I have an email acct that is used only for whois info. I use a free email service for this (run by a large company), so that I am reachable if my domain(s) go out of service.

Another response from dotster, still nothing from the rest:

We do notify the domain owner if we receive a complaint, with a 5-day warning, before shutting the domain down. But of course if all of the contact information on the domain is incorrect, you may not receive the warning.

Your second question you should direct towards ICANN
(http://www.icann.org).
My second question was, and I did send it to icann: Is the ICANN vulnerable to lawsuits if some crazy guy comes to my house and kills me because they forced me to reveal my home address?

Originally posted by gleen
Another response from dotster, still nothing from the rest:


My second question was, and I did send it to icann: Is the ICANN vulnerable to lawsuits if some crazy guy comes to my house and kills me because they forced me to reveal my home address?

Hmmm...that is an interesting question. The drivers license dept of CA got flack a few years back for providing the address to an actress who was on the TV show My Sister Sam and this nut went to her house and killed her. He had been stalking her. Now in my state we can check a box to keep our address private. If you don't tell them to do that anyone with your lic plate number and $8 bucks can pull your drivers license info which includes your home address. The WHOIS should really give the option to OPT out public listing of your info on the WHOIS. You can sue for anything so I'm sure its a matter of time before they get sued for that. Not even killing but harassing. I've seen threads here where people listed someone's address on the WHOIS because the guy was being an ***. A "I know where you live" type threat.

Yep.. exactly.